midniterider Posted May 10, 2013 Share Posted May 10, 2013 I heard Moses had a burning bush. Hmm, yes. I hear that's quite the condition. I happen to know someone who knows someone else whose second cousin twice removed three times might have a tonic that should probably do something to help out with that maybe a little. Why, for only a dollar that's practically a steal. I just happen to have a bottle right here, drink this and in as little as twenty three months I'll be gone...I mean it'll be gone for sure. Just sign right here and I'll let it go for the low low price of two dollars, a pair of shoes, and the horse you rode in on. It's probably sickly anyway, and I'm sure a bit of a walk will do you some good. Might even help with that condition you told me about. Excuse me, but since we've already got a deal, do you mind if I get a light? Don't worry, just apply directly to the affected area and it'll clear up in some time. Why in as little as a week or four you'll be as right as rain. You won't find a better deal for me anywhere else I assure you. Thanks you're a pal, now what was it we agreed on again? Oh, that's right, three dollars, a pair of shoes, those ones you're wearing will be fine, a horse and buggy, and a signature on this deed to your house. Why, that's such a good deal that you're practically being robbed blind. Don't worry about signing, I'm almost sure that it's just a formality. Besides, it's not like you'll end up wandering the desert for forty years or anything. Just sign right here on the dotted line and this miracle cure could be yours, and in only a month this suppository will do wonders for whatever it is you said was wrong. Do you happen to have a pen? I seem to have misplaced yours for some reason. LoL. :-) You are a true salesman. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mymistake Posted May 10, 2013 Share Posted May 10, 2013 So you would be willing to entertain the thought that Jewish texts are baloney? The neat thing about Jewish texts is that they say anything you want them to say even if they don't mention it. The Torah doesn't mention Lady Gaga or her music but the Torah says that Lady Gaga is the best singer in history. Hey don't blame me if you don't like her music. That is simply what it says in the Torah as clear as day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
midniterider Posted May 10, 2013 Share Posted May 10, 2013 I am open minded. I said nice things to athiests as long as they were civil. So you would be willing to entertain the thought that Jewish texts are baloney? i understand why atheists say what they say. I don't close myself off from their arguments. Every valid argument has merit. When a valid argument is not ultimately "true" it still represents an element of truth because if there was not an element of truth then it would not have been a valid argument. You won't find that with evangelicals and other narrow minded people. Ultimately, the real truth is a product of all the angles together, just like white light is made up of all colors. Will you admit that this is open mindedness? Yes, I believe that is a good definition of open mindedness. Being able to consider the validity of some idea that may be in conflict with your general sense of truth is open mindedness. And yes, Atheists provide some good tools for living. But I also like to sprinkle some spirituality on top as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ContraBardus Posted May 10, 2013 Share Posted May 10, 2013 The bigger point of all this is that when the intent of debates is to knock somebody, all you get is nitpicking and stupid he said she said arguments. None of this would happen if there was a semblance of respect. if there was respect the main consideration would not be a nitpick of the specific word used or the idiom, but the intent. Quit whining about how everyone is ganging up on you. Seriously. Of course we're mocking you. This thread is almost fifty pages long and going on 1000 replies. [Come on, we can make it! Just a few more to go!] Hell, you have more than a hundred posts in this thread alone. Is that your first computer or something? Have you no experience with the internet? Is this the first time you've ever posted on a forum before? Perhaps the first time you've been involved with a thread that has gone on for this long? [it's not a special event you know, you get used to it.] After a certain point of any thread on any board things get this way. There is a post count/relevance/rationality/civility threshold, and we are far beyond it. The people involved get bored, and we're almost on page fifty. You should expect this sort of thing at this point. Valid conversation about the topic was exhausted almost thirty pages ago. It's perfectly normal for such a thread to become nothing but nitpicking, mockery, derailings, and whining. It's not just us, you've been doing an awful lot of these things yourself. No one is innocent, and no one really wants to be anymore. It's just a matter of seeing how far the thread will go before it crashes into the side of a mountain and dies in a twisted flaming mess. [<Internet Pun. Wheeeeeee!] This stopped being constructive somewhere around page twenty or so. Most of the ones who are still here are either irate [Troll successful!XD], lurking in a morbid curiosity to see how much longer it will go on for, or just dicking around because the thread hasn't died yet. No one here is having a serious conversation, and I fail to understand how anyone could seriously think the topic is going to go anywhere. We've reached the wild unknown at this point, the thread is chaos, and you might as well be posting this on 4-chan, the temperament of the thread has reached that point. Not the level of /b/ mind you, but it is now a silly place. You should accept that and move on if you cannot handle it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
midniterider Posted May 10, 2013 Share Posted May 10, 2013 So you would be willing to entertain the thought that Jewish texts are baloney? The neat thing about Jewish texts is that they say anything you want them to say even if they don't mention it. The Torah doesn't mention Lady Gaga or her music but the Torah says that Lady Gaga is the best singer in history. Hey don't blame me if you don't like her music. That is simply what it says in the Torah as clear as day. Psalm 98:4 makes strong inference to electronic dance music. If you had ears to hear you would know this. :-) You can't just READ the words, you have to allow your imagination to determine what they mean. Gaga, in the ancient Aramaic means "Crappy bubblegum music artist." And so it was that a schism split the Holy Church, with the Reverend MyMistake leading a great Gaga revolt against Friar Rider's dancing techno congregation. A bloody war of many watts and big speakers was fought between the Gaga's and the Avicii's until a truce was called and the Gagas allowed only small revival's in select cities called Electric Daisy Carnivals to exist. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mymistake Posted May 10, 2013 Share Posted May 10, 2013 Quit whining about how everyone is ganging up on you. Seriously. Of course we're mocking you. The Torah says you were going to post this. Well, the Torah didn't actually mention it but never the less the Torah says that you were going to post it. The husband of Asherah moves in mysterious ways! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
midniterider Posted May 10, 2013 Share Posted May 10, 2013 I think the question on everyone's mind is where in the Torah does it mention or not mention eugenics. :-) Has anyone talked about that yet? :-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest nat Posted May 10, 2013 Share Posted May 10, 2013 So you would be willing to entertain the thought that Jewish texts are baloney? The neat thing about Jewish texts is that they say anything you want them to say even if they don't mention it. The Torah doesn't mention Lady Gaga or her music but the Torah says that Lady Gaga is the best singer in history. Hey don't blame me if you don't like her music. That is simply what it says in the Torah as clear as day. Nonetheless the conservative side of religion did stand against eugenics based on bible teachings. That is a fact of history. It is sad that different religions and persuations interpret the bible differently, but as an Orthodox Jew I think we have a unique advantage concerning its interpretation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest nat Posted May 10, 2013 Share Posted May 10, 2013 Contra, There was never a semblance of respect even from the start. That was the problem. I said that i did my share of lambasting, but I am not just going to sit there and be constantly ridiculed and not fight back. I tried to call a truce but it didn't work. No I don't go on any forums. This was a one time thing just for the novelty of it and when this is done I am out of here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest nat Posted May 10, 2013 Share Posted May 10, 2013 I say we just hit 1000 posts just for the fun of it and it automatically closes. OK? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mymistake Posted May 10, 2013 Share Posted May 10, 2013 I think the question on everyone's mind is where in the Torah does it mention or not mention eugenics. :-) Has anyone talked about that yet? :-) Everywhere and nowhere, of course. However mostly in the Family Values section of Deuteronomy 21 vs. 15 to 17. It's right after instruction on how to rape force marry a beautiful female war captive and just before instructions on when and how to execute your own son. Praise God for the Torah's moral victory over Nazi eugenics! http://skepticsannotatedbible.com/dt/21.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pratt Posted May 11, 2013 Share Posted May 11, 2013 actually eugenics is practised in the wizardry sphere, and the champiom for tbis cause was voldemort. It is the muggles and mudblood that do ont understand it,,,,, it NEVER actually mentions it, but it has ALWAYS been there,,, read harry potter and only those with unique understanding will see how true is that,,,,,, Shalom Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pratt Posted May 11, 2013 Share Posted May 11, 2013 also with unique understandings, the official jews should not spread herpes,,, or it was in the torah all the time??? New York (CNN) -- Two more infants have contracted the herpes virus after undergoing an ultra-Orthodox Jewish type of circumcision, which has been linked to the spread of the potentially deadly virus to newborn boys, according to the New York City Health Department. In the ritual, known as metzitzah b'peh, after removing the foreskin of the penis the person performing the procedure places his mouth briefly over the wound, sucking a small amount of blood out, which is discarded. Antibacterial ointment is applied and the wound is bandaged. The health department says the procedure is dangerous because the contact with the mouth could transmit diseases such as herpes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest r3alchild Posted May 11, 2013 Share Posted May 11, 2013 I think the question on everyone's mind is where in the Torah does it mention or not mention eugenics. :-) Has anyone talked about that yet? :-)In some sense jesus is a product of eugenics, god had a special family line all the way back to perfect adam and eve that produced the perfect traited son of god. It says god picked mary because she had the traits god wanted. But I could be making a strawman. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boftx Posted May 11, 2013 Share Posted May 11, 2013 I think the question on everyone's mind is where in the Torah does it mention or not mention eugenics. :-) Has anyone talked about that yet? :-)In some sense jesus is a product of eugenics, god had a special family line all the way back to perfect adam and eve that produced the perfect traited son of god. It says god picked mary because she had the traits god wanted. But I could be making a strawman. Hmmm, so "God" had a breeding program? That sounds a lot like evolution to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest r3alchild Posted May 11, 2013 Share Posted May 11, 2013 Who ever hit the 1000 post wins a 7 day vacation to the place my missing socks go to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boftx Posted May 11, 2013 Share Posted May 11, 2013 Who ever hit the 1000 post wins a 7 day vacation to the place my missing socks go to. Oh, thanks! The last thing we need is Stimpy posting here! Happy, happy, joy, joy! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest r3alchild Posted May 11, 2013 Share Posted May 11, 2013 I think the question on everyone's mind is where in the Torah does it mention or not mention eugenics. :-) Has anyone talked about that yet? :-)In some sense jesus is a product of eugenics, god had a special family line all the way back to perfect adam and eve that produced the perfect traited son of god. It says god picked mary because she had the traits god wanted. But I could be making a strawman. Hmmm, so "God" had a breeding program? That sounds a lot like evolution to me. Not just evolution but evilution. Ah where are the days when the gods could fuck young virgins and have offspring freely and not get mistaken these days for just another grease ball who hits night clubs picking up chicks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ravenstar Posted May 11, 2013 Share Posted May 11, 2013 So... I wonder... what's the difference between eugenics and breeding only within certain bloodlines? The OT is rife with incest and admonishments of only breeding (heir line) with ones own race..to remain separate from the others... as they were special and chosen (better? superior?) Isn't selective breeding one of the hallmarks of eugenics? Monarchies have been doing it forever ('blue blood') probably still are, (Princess Diana anyone?) The whole 'line of David' thing is eugenics based.. on blood and not on ability. The entire 'begats' thing is basically eugenics... following bloodlines... they do that with show dogs and horses too.. The Hebrews have been an insular and racist people from the beginning - if we take the word of the OT. The Romans and Celts... not so much (they were sluts and the Romans more interested in politics and land ownership, the Celts in courage and leadership). Interestingly the early Hebrews were husbandmen (shepherds), and would have understood breeding for quality...(and how many texts speak of unblemished and perfect animals for sacrifice - I'm pretty sure they were probably bred that way - for the temple) even to the point where today one is a Jew if one's MOTHER is (bloodlines again)... pretty bold genetics there... even before the discovery of genetics.. I believe it comes from a knowledge of animal husbandry. You don't see that much in pagan agrarian cultures. I don't think there have to be SPECIFIC texts to show that... it's inferred all the way through the scriptures up until Paul. I actually have a soft spot for eugenics... or at least more responsible breeding... so I'm not criticizing, just observing. I am also beginning to believe that the Jews invented sophistry. What's the Hebrew term for that? I've seen it on this site somewhere. Oh... I'm one of the ones just dicking around now Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlackCat Posted May 11, 2013 Share Posted May 11, 2013 Let me add to your post, I hope you wont mind. If the accounts of the bible is based on real verifiable evidence, like overwhelming external sources and testable data. Then christians would not need faith in the first place, we would all be christians because of facts. The fact that the christians play the faith card would suggest that they have nothing objective to claim and there beliefs in the bible is completly subjective. Thanks for your thoughts on this. I take your point about faith. I'm not really considering 'faith' as regards to the meanings behind the biblical stories and in particular this story about the Gentile woman. I'm claiming that this particular story has been misunderstood and hence the main character of the story: 'Jesus', has been misrepresented. The article I linked to, which is not very long and which Ravenstar, I would very much appreciate your thoughts on, explains the customs and culture of that time, and therefore makes sense of this story. It turns out to be a very clever, 'beautiful' story imo even though it is fictional. I've been following the tit for tats regarding eugenics and I do believe Nat has a valid point as regards the Torah having some 'input' as regards something like 'eugenics'. Just because it doesn't mention 'eugenics' doesn't mean that laws that are cited, do not have an application to something like eugenics. Here's another example: the Torah doesn't mention the 'fractional banking reserve system' - you know, that corrupt banking system whereby bankers conjure up money out of thin air and thereby alter the precise measures of their scales (in their case the ledgers) so they are dishonest. The Torah mentions not to have dishonest scales for measuring, and so this lesson can be applied in our modern world. There are many examples like this. As for 'blood-lines' and thinking this is to do with keeping a race pure, this does not seem to be the case. The bible is full of examples of Gentiles who married Hebrews and Yeshua himself comes from a blood-line of prominent gentile women. The reason the Israelites were prohibited from mixing with gentiles in marriage was due to the mixing of religious ideas. King Solomon married many gentile women and was reportedly led astray spiritually by these women's religious beliefs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeCoastie Posted May 12, 2013 Share Posted May 12, 2013 The number 58008 spells the word "Boobs" when you turn your calculator upside down. Your god can't explain that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest nat Posted May 12, 2013 Share Posted May 12, 2013 I am open minded. I said nice things to athiests as long as they were civil. So you would be willing to entertain the thought that Jewish texts are baloney? i understand why atheists say what they say. I don't close myself off from their arguments. Every valid argument has merit. When a valid argument is not ultimately "true" it still represents an element of truth because if there was not an element of truth then it would not have been a valid argument. You won't find that with evangelicals and other narrow minded people. Ultimately, the real truth is a product of all the angles together, just like white light is made up of all colors. Will you admit that this is open mindedness? Yes, I believe that is a good definition of open mindedness. Being able to consider the validity of some idea that may be in conflict with your general sense of truth is open mindedness. And yes, Atheists provide some good tools for living. But I also like to sprinkle some spirituality on top as well. Then I ask you to reconsider the implication you made that I was rabid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest nat Posted May 12, 2013 Share Posted May 12, 2013 So you would be willing to entertain the thought that Jewish texts are baloney? The neat thing about Jewish texts is that they say anything you want them to say even if they don't mention it. The Torah doesn't mention Lady Gaga or her music but the Torah says that Lady Gaga is the best singer in history. Hey don't blame me if you don't like her music. That is simply what it says in the Torah as clear as day. Is the constitution any different. Why has the supreme court been split on the big issues? Do you live in America? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest nat Posted May 12, 2013 Share Posted May 12, 2013 So... I wonder... what's the difference between eugenics and breeding only within certain bloodlines? The OT is rife with incest and admonishments of only breeding (heir line) with ones own race..to remain separate from the others... as they were special and chosen (better? superior?) Isn't selective breeding one of the hallmarks of eugenics? Monarchies have been doing it forever ('blue blood') probably still are, (Princess Diana anyone?) The whole 'line of David' thing is eugenics based.. on blood and not on ability. The entire 'begats' thing is basically eugenics... following bloodlines... they do that with show dogs and horses too.. The Hebrews have been an insular and racist people from the beginning - if we take the word of the OT. The Romans and Celts... not so much (they were sluts and the Romans more interested in politics and land ownership, the Celts in courage and leadership). Interestingly the early Hebrews were husbandmen (shepherds), and would have understood breeding for quality...(and how many texts speak of unblemished and perfect animals for sacrifice - I'm pretty sure they were probably bred that way - for the temple) even to the point where today one is a Jew if one's MOTHER is (bloodlines again)... pretty bold genetics there... even before the discovery of genetics.. I believe it comes from a knowledge of animal husbandry. You don't see that much in pagan agrarian cultures. I don't think there have to be SPECIFIC texts to show that... it's inferred all the way through the scriptures up until Paul. I actually have a soft spot for eugenics... or at least more responsible breeding... so I'm not criticizing, just observing. I am also beginning to believe that the Jews invented sophistry. What's the Hebrew term for that? I've seen it on this site somewhere. Oh... I'm one of the ones just dicking around now I find it quite interesting that its ok to show that Torah supports eugenics but if I say that it doesn't support it then I have to make pages of explanation of how to make modern adaptations. The idea of modern adaptations can start on a very simple level, What is the Torah's oppinion on shooting someone in the head with a gun. Hey, the Torah says nothing about guns. But it says not to kill. It can be that simple. The point is whether a modern thing violates a biblical law that the Torah does discuss. The Torah did not have modern eugenics but it did have breeding which is a "type of eugenics." And if you you want to nitpick that term, I can show you online someone else who used that exact term for better breeding. Let's leave the nitpicks aside, and as ravenstar said, it is a hallmark of eugenics. Eugenics (making super humans) violates the teaching of not favoring the child of the more loved wife. The abuse on the unhealthy (or so called unhealthy) violates the laws of treating them with respect and kindness, Castration (which eugenics used) violates the biblical law against castration. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest nat Posted May 12, 2013 Share Posted May 12, 2013 Jews are not black and white on things. Take abortion for example. In Jewish law, it is not all or nothing. Good eugenics must abide by these three rules. 1) It must be for the purpose of curing a disease or abnormality. It can not be for the purpose of "curing" normal and making super humans. 2) In curing a disease, it cannot abuse those who are diseased. 3) It must correctly do what it is purported to do, or at least verified to the best ability. The racist eugenics which has been overwhelmingly denounced violated all three principals. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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