Roz Posted March 23, 2014 Share Posted March 23, 2014 I did not say anything against a personal relationship with Christ. That is what matters. The scriptures warn believers to be careful of false teachers and doctrines. They cause great harm to the believers and to our witness. To help us the Spirit needs us to use our brain. Example: At the beginning of a Joel Osteen service he has the thousands of members hold up their Bibles and say a pledge that they believe in the word. Then they sit down and Sunday after Sunday Osteen preaches false teachings and doctrines. The members are not "testing" what he says with their Bibles. So what you believe is right, what those other christians believe is wrong. Just like when people go to a Star Trek convention, you'll inevitably have people calling each other out and saying "no no no, that's not true Star Trek. The Romulans never did x!" Or when people have political conversations. "He's not a true liberal!" "They're not true conservatives!" Just like your post on slavery, you only cut and paste what some apologist says about the founding fathers. You don't address the issue, and then claim it's been addressed. Praise jesus for christians, a constant reminder of what one becomes with faith. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mymistake Posted March 23, 2014 Share Posted March 23, 2014 I guess I may be walking the gauntlet here and opening myself up for some educating but I'm curious to know whether from a Charismatic/Pentecostal perspective was I actually saved. I responded to the alter call, went headlong into Christianity gave up all my vices, prayed daily almost in an obsessive compulsive manner always giving thanks to Jesus, fasted to draw near to God, gave money/time/dignity to the cause, read the word(memorised and spoke it aloud), bound spirits, cried out to God to speak and give me His spirit, had hands laid on me time and time again, witnessed, interceded, sought Gods will etc etc ad nauseum. Never once did I hear or feel anything definitive, I so badly wanted to speak in tongues but couldn't despite asking and asking, asked God to break me and this and that but still nothing. I'm 31 and this cycle of asking and being rejected went on for 8 years until this year I finally said I've had it, sick of playing games and chasing something so elusive and hence am here-a non believer full of angst at the religion and disappointment that I couldn't get the breakthrough I needed to "go deeper". Theologians go on about people being Christian in name only not in Spirit. If I'm one of these why didn't God give me the spirit when I pleaded and leave me hanging so to speak. Was I unsaved, unwanted or what? Why do some get instant answers? Speaking in tongues etc and people like me nothing? From your POV an I saved, unsaved or once saved but now a lost soul? And why the BS jumping through hoops for nothing but frustration?. No by grace answers please I spent a lot of time accepting free grace and the whole "not by works" theology- still nothing. A person can accept Christ in the religious environment you described, but Pentecostal teachings often cause trouble for sincere believers. Instead of learning more about the teachings of Christ and a genuine study of scriptures people are told to go deeper by feeling zapped with emotions....speaking in tongues...getting anointed by the Spirit and other so called events. It seems several posters here were also taught this nonsense. I will not go into detail here, but what the Charismatics teach is a lie. It has done great harm. Once again, the excuse that the person was in the wrong denomination... the wrong brand of christianity. Isn't accepting jesus as your saviour supposed to be a personal relationship? Ironhorse, are you suggesting that the personal relationship we've all been told about is wrong and that we should have been members of a specific denomination? Because, if it's a personal relationship, why would that matter? Wouldn't the holy spirit tell us what was true and what wasn't? I did not say anything against a personal relationship with Christ. That is what matters. The scriptures warn believers to be careful of false teachers and doctrines. They cause great harm to the believers and to our witness. To help us the Spirit needs us to use our brain. Example: At the beginning of a Joel Osteen service he has the thousands of members hold up their Bibles and say a pledge that they believe in the word. Then they sit down and Sunday after Sunday Osteen preaches false teachings and doctrines. The members are not "testing" what he says with their Bibles. Nobody can do a proper test using a book that constantly contradicts itself. The "lies" you complain about from the Pentecostals come out of the same Bible that Osteen uses to con his sheep out of $75,000 a week. The Bible can be interpreted to mean anything. People simply ignore what they don't like and pretend the Holy Spirit told them that part was only a metaphor. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest afireinside Posted March 24, 2014 Share Posted March 24, 2014 Ironhorse, the title of this thread is asking for feedback from the charismatic branch of Christianity. I also did a lot of study of the Bible and of well known non charismatic teachers so I understand the contrasts as far as denominations go. The Bible opens the door for different interpretations because it in itself is not solid on any theology so to say one is above another is only one set of interpretation vs. another. That's why I narrowed the question down to specifically asking one viewpoint. Cheers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ironhorse Posted March 24, 2014 Share Posted March 24, 2014 Ironhorse, the title of this thread is asking for feedback from the charismatic branch of Christianity. I also did a lot of study of the Bible and of well known non charismatic teachers so I understand the contrasts as far as denominations go. The Bible opens the door for different interpretations because it in itself is not solid on any theology so to say one is above another is only one set of interpretation vs. another. That's why I narrowed the question down to specifically asking one viewpoint. Cheers I understood what you asked afireinside but I interjected because you were asking a group that experienced the same disappointed and heard the same crap. I just wanted to point out what I think false teaching has done to harm/discourage believers and nonbelivers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pratt Posted March 24, 2014 Share Posted March 24, 2014 this is the era of the holy crap spirit,,,, jesus had the era of god the son for two thousand years and now give way to the movement of holy ghost,,, bhimbalahkira blahblah quatrokinobino blahblahblah Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maxmaxmaxmax Posted March 24, 2014 Share Posted March 24, 2014 false teaching has done to harm/discourage believers and nonbelivers. On what basis do you know it's false? You mention their emphasis on emotions etc., but they might say true christianity involves emotions as an essential part, and point to all sorts of bible verses, eg. 'the greatest of these is love', 'desires of your heart', 'holy anguish'. What do you think of their arguments that what you believe is false teaching? Which do you think is their best argument? Or is it more of an empirical thing than a theological thing, ie. you can see the harm that has been caused by those churches? Because if so, I am sure you will find people who have been harmed by your church as a direct result of the teaching, and people who have found great joy in their church. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest afireinside Posted March 24, 2014 Share Posted March 24, 2014 A lot of the conservative doctrines are just as harmful. The experiential aspects are replaced by legalism and fear in my experience. I found the Pentecostals kooky and a bit over the top on the whole spiritual gifts thing but conservative churches were just vile breeding grounds of fear and paranoia at what the more spiritual churches are up to. The most harm done to my faith and peace was reading shit by John Mccarthur and he wasnt charismatic he was just a cockhole, one person I'd love to " lay hands on" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ironhorse Posted March 24, 2014 Share Posted March 24, 2014 A lot of the conservative doctrines are just as harmful. The experiential aspects are replaced by legalism and fear in my experience. I found the Pentecostals kooky and a bit over the top on the whole spiritual gifts thing but conservative churches were just vile breeding grounds of fear and paranoia at what the more spiritual churches are up to. The most harm done to my faith and peace was reading shit by John Mccarthur and he wasnt charismatic he was just a cockhole, one person I'd love to " lay hands on" I prefer C.S. Lewis....Dietrich Bonhoeffer...JRR. Tolkien...and some others.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest afireinside Posted March 24, 2014 Share Posted March 24, 2014 Lewis and Tolkein should have written the Bible, at least it would have been well written fiction 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maxmaxmaxmax Posted March 24, 2014 Share Posted March 24, 2014 Lewis and Tolkein should have written the Bible, at least it would have been well written fiction If we're playing this game, I'd go for a collaboration between Salman Rushdie and Martin Amis. Obviously Amis would do the OT, because he's more of a natural when it comes to pointless rage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super Moderator florduh Posted March 24, 2014 Super Moderator Share Posted March 24, 2014 I just wanted to point out what I think false teaching has done to harm/discourage believers and nonbelivers. And just who are you to decide what is a false teaching? This tack gets very old around here. Most all of us were sincere Christians at one time and we all embraced the "true teachings" and yet we all believed different things. What a Christian believes to be correct doctrine depends on where he learned the religion. You'll never admit it, but you're all just guessing. So we'd still be Christians if only we had the proper understanding possessed by ironhorse, or maybe it's thumbelina who's right, or perhaps rayski, or stevebennett, yada yada yada. Puke. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pantophobia Posted March 24, 2014 Share Posted March 24, 2014 Lewis and Tolkein should have written the Bible, at least it would have been well written fiction If we're playing this game, I'd go for a collaboration between Salman Rushdie and Martin Amis. Obviously Amis would do the OT, because he's more of a natural when it comes to pointless rage. Oh, c'mon, guys, you can't leave out Margaret Atwood! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest afireinside Posted March 24, 2014 Share Posted March 24, 2014 EL James (50 shades of gray) slipped in there as special guest writer of "Dong Of Solomon" some good old fashioned porn OT style 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aggie Posted March 24, 2014 Share Posted March 24, 2014 Interesting post afireinside. I can still speak in tongues as a non-believer. I wonder if there's any connection to suggestibility-- like some people can be hypnotized and some can't? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mymistake Posted March 24, 2014 Share Posted March 24, 2014 Lewis and Tolkein should have written the Bible, at least it would have been well written fiction Even better if it was just Tolkein. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest afireinside Posted March 24, 2014 Share Posted March 24, 2014 For God so loved the hobbits he gave his only begotten Son.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest afireinside Posted March 24, 2014 Share Posted March 24, 2014 And Frodo cried out Eli Eli Salabatchani!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pantophobia Posted March 25, 2014 Share Posted March 25, 2014 EL James (50 shades of gray) slipped in there as special guest writer of "Dong Of Solomon" some good old fashioned porn OT style How dare you, sir?! The porn in Song of Solomon is WAY hotter than that Fifty Shades nonsense! You go sit in the corner and think about what you've done. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mymistake Posted March 25, 2014 Share Posted March 25, 2014 EL James (50 shades of gray) slipped in there as special guest writer of "Dong Of Solomon" some good old fashioned porn OT style How dare you, sir?! The porn in Song of Solomon is WAY hotter than that Fifty Shades nonsense! You go sit in the corner and think about what you've done. That is the Bible story that needs to be done on the big screen. Charlie Sheen could read the Song of Solomon (King James version of course) while pornography actors perform the "word of God". 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest afireinside Posted March 25, 2014 Share Posted March 25, 2014 Jamie Foxx and Megan Fox lol Morgan Freeman doing the reading Blockbuster!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest afireinside Posted March 25, 2014 Share Posted March 25, 2014 If funding is an issue you could always get Bobby Brown and Courtney Love, they do it for a bag of crack Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sdelsolray Posted March 25, 2014 Share Posted March 25, 2014 I just wanted to point out what I think false teaching has done to harm/discourage believers and nonbelivers. And just who are you to decide what is a false teaching? This tack gets very old around here. Most all of us were sincere Christians at one time and we all embraced the "true teachings" and yet we all believed different things. What a Christian believes to be correct doctrine depends on where he learned the religion. You'll never admit it, but you're all just guessing. So we'd still be Christians if only we had the proper understanding possessed by ironhorse, or maybe it's thumbelina who's right, or perhaps rayski, or stevebennett, yada yada yada. Puke. His father, the Baptist Minister, did all of the "deciding" for Ironhorse. Ironhorse is a classic example of childhood religious indoctrination. He seems to think enjoying Dylan or U2 is evidence of personal rebellion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest afireinside Posted March 26, 2014 Share Posted March 26, 2014 Especially Dylan's Classic Christian album "Slow Brain Dumbing" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ironhorse Posted March 28, 2014 Share Posted March 28, 2014 "The "lies" you complain about from the Pentecostals come out of the same Bible that Osteen uses to con his sheep out of $75,000 a week. The Bible can be interpreted to mean anything. People simply ignore what they don't like and pretend the Holy Spirit told them that part was only a metaphor." ~mymistake I agree...that's exactly what they do. The scriptures warn against this approach. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roz Posted March 28, 2014 Share Posted March 28, 2014 "The "lies" you complain about from the Pentecostals come out of the same Bible that Osteen uses to con his sheep out of $75,000 a week. The Bible can be interpreted to mean anything. People simply ignore what they don't like and pretend the Holy Spirit told them that part was only a metaphor." ~mymistake I agree...that's exactly what they do. The scriptures warn against this approach. Something about pots and kettles and the color black 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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