Noah's Ark

[Aries256]

well when I was a xtian, yup I believed every morsel of craptonite that was spoon fed down my blind folded, and ear plugged throat. Later as I grew brain cells, and my level of stupidity started to wane. I realized there is no way this story could be true.

[Aries256]

There are hundreds of myths from around the world that suggest there was a great flood.

Whether local or global depends on the story you go with.

 

I think all these ancient stories have origin in the flood recorded in Genesis.

 

I believe it happened. 

there are hundreds of stories from even more cultures that dragons exist, soooo I guess that means Toothless was real. Well I guess also pixies, fairies, elves, trolls, dwarves, ghosts, goblins, and a host of other stories from hundreds of cultures across time, and the globe are real too? Do you believe in the tooth fairy, santa claus, and a host of other ridiculous bullshit like your "god", and buybull?

 

Which brings me to, and echoing others. Why in the hell would a decent, good, and honorable human being show anything but disgust towards this horrible, sadistic, twisted, demented, psychopathic, genocidal, blood thirsty, whiny, pathetic sack of shit that you call a "god"? The pathetic whiny fuck murders, MURDERS children, and babies CHILDREN AND BABIES( read that a few times), and you support that?

Evils of men? A tiny portion of this entire human race is evil, or what could be considered evil and guess what! They're abrahamic sheep!, and they mirror the abrahamic "god" perfectly.

 

IH, your "god" is a asshole, a demented, weak, evil, and pathetic lowlife scum sucking pile of maggot infested crap, and only the most low, and horrible person would ever justify it. There is no way to spindoctor, or excuse your "god", there is no excuse for such horrible atrocitious actions. The average human being is exponentially more kind, caring, loving, and morally sound than your so called "god". I spit in your "god" idea's face, and present middle finger. *spit, and scoff!*

[Neverlandrut]

Every ancient civilization settled near a major water sorce, mostly rivers and by the seas. They ALL dealt with catastrophic floods at some point or another. Not hard to imagine that many of them would have developed global flood legends. To them, their whole world probably did flood at some point.

 

The details of the Noah story are patently absurd. Not physically possible. A wooden vessel with the dimentions of the ark would have been torn to shreds by the moving waters. We know this because later people tried building boats close to that size with iron reinforcements and they buckled and fell apart. It's more likely that the author picked random dimentions that he knew would be really really big for a boat. Also, the massive number of animals that would have had to be on the ark (even if you buy Ken Ham's "kinds" hypothesis) would have been far too numerous to fill the ark, not including the amount of food and fresh water needed to sustain them for a whole year.

[seven77]

Ex-Cs:

 

1. did you believe it really happened or was it all metaphorical for you?

 

 

There were two common theories taught in my old worship haunt.

1. The Beautiful Metaphor -- God loved us so much that he destroyed all of the evil and created a new race to inhabit a new world after the flood. The specifics of how God accomplished this were not important.
2. The Pseudo-Scientific Meth-a-phor (my unofficial term) -- God used advanced scientific powers to preserve all life aboard a vessel during the great flood. Such as: There were no living animals aboard the ark, just DNA samples. Or better yet, code and/or blueprints. I loved this theory because it was a strange one. It wasn't a mainstream theory by any stretch. Just a few science-minded folk and a small contingent of wannaba rebel Jews took it seriously.

Personally, I preferred option 2, but option 1 seemed to be a bit more fitting to the overall storyline.

 

Do you have a thought on the evil of men?

 

 

IH posed this question some weeks ago. It was regarded as the gratuitous puff of smoke that it is and was never adequately addressed.

 

I will offer my answer, even though it is potentially thread-derailing.

 

I think that Iron Maiden said it best in their song "The Evil That Men Do"....it lives on and on....

 

I agree with previous replies that there is NO justification for planet-wide genocide. Ever.

 

In the book of Exodus, this supposedly good God issues a commandment that states "Thou shalt not kill." The Hebrew term used here is "ratsach", which means:

• to murder, slay, kill

• to murder, slay

  1. premeditated

  2. accidental

  3. as avenger

  4. slayer (intentional) (participle) [Taken from Strong's Concordance, HERE]

This is a direct command (supposedly) from God telling HUMANKIND not to KILL. Yet this same God kills wantonly and most certainly premeditated the mass genocide of thousands, if not millions, of living things upon this earth.

 

And yet, he is a good God? An awesome God? A loving and kind father God?

 

There is no evidence that can sway a hardcore kool-aid drinker. They see the evil of men as a choice, a choice that no believer ever makes. Yet we know this isn't true. Take a look in the "News and Current Events" section of these forums. Men and women of God do all sorts of evil things. They sexually abuse children. They steal. They kill. These are things that no decent adult in a free society will condone, yet Christians want to walk around in a bubbleverse where True Believers™ or MY denomination, or MY church, or I myself would never do such things.

 

Worse still, when believers defend the abhorrent scum hiding under the cover of Christ with such platitudes as "demonic possession", "enemy influences", "backsliding into immorality", "let's pray about it", "we're each accountatble for our own actions, but only God can save us!", "God's will!", "In the kingdom come..." or "God's ways are not our ways!"

 

I counter:

 

When is evil considered evil? Just how much of a scumbag does one need to be beyond saving? If God felt justified in killing an untold number of his loved creations in the flood, then why all of the deathbed pardons and sick fuck prison conversions in modern times?

 

I doubt IH nor any of the other ameteur hour apologists will respond with anything worthwhile. Most likely more questions or apologetic baloney prattle that will contribute nothing of value to a very interesting topic.

[ironhorse]

 

 

I'm glad Dusty is not God.

 

"blink"

My breakfast is ready and done the moment I awaken.

 

"blink"

My garden is already cultivated and watered.

 

"blink"

My house is all cleaned and dishes washed.

 

"blink"

I go fishing and every time I cast, I catch the big one.

I curse Dusty and BAM!!!...I'm outta here 

 

 

Concerning Noah:

He warned the people for 120 years.

[Roz]

IH's yeshitwa:

Even though he has infinite power and claims omnipotence, he CHOSE to select a pair of each animal species and then subject the remaining animals to a slow agonizing drowning death.

Also drowned the old, the young, the infirm, the crippled, the invalid, the sick, the starving, etc. etc. 

 

Dusty would make a better god.  IH, you really should answer BAA's pointed questions to you before rambling on.

[TheRedneckProfessor]

¹And it came to pass, when men began to multiply on the face of the earth, and daughters were born unto them,

2 That the sons of God saw the daughters of men that they were fair; and they took them wives of all which they chose.

3 And the Lord said, My spirit shall not always strive with man, for that he also is flesh: yet his days shall be an hundred and twenty years.

4 There were giants in the earth in those days; and also after that, when the sons of God came in unto the daughters of men, and they bare children to them, the same became mighty men which were of old, men of renown.

5 And God saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every imagination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually.

6 And it repented the Lord that he had made man on the earth, and it grieved him at his heart.

7 And the Lord said, I will destroy man whom I have created from the face of the earth; both man, and beast, and the creeping thing, and the fowls of the air; for it repenteth me that I have made them.

8 But Noah found grace in the eyes of the Lord.  Genesis Chapter 6

 

This is the reason god decided to destroy man.  Doesn't it strike you as odd that god didn't really care about men's wickedness until AFTER god's sons came down and started having sex with women?  It almost seems like god was trying to cover up the wickedness of his own sons and that humans (and animals, by default) just got caught in the crossfire.

 

You really should learn to read the scriptures in context, TinPony.

[ironhorse]

IH's yeshitwa:

Even though he has infinite power and claims omnipotence, he CHOSE to select a pair of each animal species and then subject the remaining animals to a slow agonizing drowning death.

Also drowned the old, the young, the infirm, the crippled, the invalid, the sick, the starving, etc. etc. 

 

Dusty would make a better god.  IH, you really should answer BAA's pointed questions to you before rambling on.

 

 

So a God that constantly manipulates (and physically intervenes) in your life is your idea of a better God.

 

Concerning BAA's questions: He is welcome to start a thread and post them one at a time.

One at a time

[Roz]

Better than your idea of a god who drowned billions of living creatures?  Yes.  Your god is a monster IH.

 

I've said it to all the christians here and I'll say it again.  If you excuse all the atrocities that this character did and continue to indoctrinate children into his religion...

 

YOU ARE NOT A MORAL PERSON.

[ironhorse]

Better than your idea of a god who drowned billions of living creatures?  Yes.  Your god is a monster IH.

 

I've said it to all the christians here and I'll say it again.  If you excuse all the atrocities that this character did and continue to indoctrinate children into his religion...

 

YOU ARE NOT A MORAL PERSON.

 

You blame God for evil.

 

So, I guess you blame God for evil committed by humans?

 

I guess we must agree to disagree.

 

I take responsibility for all the wrong and evil I have done in my life.

I don't blame God.

[Roz]

 

Better than your idea of a god who drowned billions of living creatures?  Yes.  Your god is a monster IH.

 

I've said it to all the christians here and I'll say it again.  If you excuse all the atrocities that this character did and continue to indoctrinate children into his religion...

 

YOU ARE NOT A MORAL PERSON.

 

You blame God for evil.

 

So, I guess you blame God for evil committed by humans?

 

I guess we must agree to disagree.

 

I take responsibility for all the wrong and evil I have done in my life.

I don't blame God.

 

 

Fail on top of fail on top of fail.

 

You would wipe out billions of living beings, you're that kind of horrible monster?  Not just wipe out, subject them to slow drowning deaths.  This is what your god did.  Were the animals somehow evil?  Were the little children somehow evil? 

 

You're as bad as End3 on the morality scale, if not worse.

[◊ crazyguy123 ◊]

 

Better than your idea of a god who drowned billions of living creatures?  Yes.  Your god is a monster IH.

 

I've said it to all the christians here and I'll say it again.  If you excuse all the atrocities that this character did and continue to indoctrinate children into his religion...

 

YOU ARE NOT A MORAL PERSON.

 

You blame God for evil.

 

So, I guess you blame God for evil committed by humans?

 

I guess we must agree to disagree.

 

I take responsibility for all the wrong and evil I have done in my life.

I don't blame God.

 

 

If your god was real, I most certainly WOULD blame him for evil committed by humans. The god of the Bible is the inventor of evil and the one that created humans with a programming to do things that he defined as evil (including things that non-believers define as evil). He even admits to it!

 

If you do not believe that he is the inventor of evil, then explain to us where evil comes from. Don't just try misquoting someone who supposedly said, "Evil is the absence of God" because you must first prove that your god is actually totally good before you can make such a claim. While you're at it, tell us how you define "good" before you try misquoting Einstein again.

[pratt]

 

Better than your idea of a god who drowned billions of living creatures?  Yes.  Your god is a monster IH.

 

I've said it to all the christians here and I'll say it again.  If you excuse all the atrocities that this character did and continue to indoctrinate children into his religion...

 

YOU ARE NOT A MORAL PERSON.

 

 

You blame God for evil.

 

So, I guess you blame God for evil committed by humans?

 

I guess we must agree to disagree.

 

I take responsibility for all the wrong and evil I have done in my life.

I don't blame God.

 

if you take responsibility for your life, and god of bible is moral, jesus died in vain for you,,,,,

 

so fuck you n your god and jesus too

[seven77]

Thoughts:

 

Christians generally believe that God created everything. God says as much in the Bible, in several places. Now, if you believe God and his narratives as given in his HOLY PERFECT Word, then you should believe that he created everything.

 

Everything would encompass both good AND evil.

 

 

 

Better than your idea of a god who drowned billions of living creatures?  Yes.  Your god is a monster IH.

 

I've said it to all the christians here and I'll say it again.  If you excuse all the atrocities that this character did and continue to indoctrinate children into his religion...

 

YOU ARE NOT A MORAL PERSON.

 

You blame God for evil.

 

So, I guess you blame God for evil committed by humans?

 

I guess we must agree to disagree.

 

I take responsibility for all the wrong and evil I have done in my life.

I don't blame God.

 

 

Yes, I do blame the character of God for allowing evil to enter the world of the Bible. He created evil AND he allowed it to spoil his created world.

 

Since God is in the heads of those who believe in him, there is no separation of responsibility. If Christian X kills Person Q, God is just as much to blame as Christian X is for the crime. If he is all-knowing, then he knew that Person Q would be killed by Christian X and did nothing to stop it. Same applies to the flood. Lots of death, for no fucking reason.

 

Sure you take responsibility for all of the wrongs and evil you've done....

 

 

 

Concerning Noah:

He warned the people for 120 years

 

 

So what if God sent one guy to act as town crier for 120 years? Imagine if someone was saying that the world was going to end in 2134. How seriously would you take that warning? Likewise, what if someone in 1894 was walking around crowing about a flood coming 2014? Who would care? Most people are going to die within that 120 year time period anyway.

[TheRedneckProfessor]

I take responsibility for all the wrong and evil I have done in my life.

I don't blame God.

god does not take responsibility for all the wrong and evil he has done.  That's the difference between you and god, TinPony.  Do you want to become more like christ?  You should start by abdicating all responsibility.

[ironhorse]

 

I take responsibility for all the wrong and evil I have done in my life.

I don't blame God.

god does not take responsibility for all the wrong and evil he has done.  That's the difference between you and god, TinPony.  Do you want to become more like christ?  You should start by abdicating all responsibility.

 

 

So I should deny (fail) in taking all responsibility?

[◊ crazyguy123 ◊]

 

 

I take responsibility for all the wrong and evil I have done in my life.

I don't blame God.

god does not take responsibility for all the wrong and evil he has done.  That's the difference between you and god, TinPony.  Do you want to become more like christ?  You should start by abdicating all responsibility.

 

 

So I should deny (fail) in taking all responsibility?

 

 

To be like Christ, yes.

[Roz]

 

 

 

I take responsibility for all the wrong and evil I have done in my life.

I don't blame God.

god does not take responsibility for all the wrong and evil he has done.  That's the difference between you and god, TinPony.  Do you want to become more like christ?  You should start by abdicating all responsibility.

 

 

So I should deny (fail) in taking all responsibility?

 

 

To be like Christ, yes.

 

 

Classic IH.  Playing dumb and twisting RNP's words.  Trolling for jesus is what he does best.

[◊ crazyguy123 ◊]

 

 

 

 

I take responsibility for all the wrong and evil I have done in my life.

I don't blame God.

god does not take responsibility for all the wrong and evil he has done.  That's the difference between you and god, TinPony.  Do you want to become more like christ?  You should start by abdicating all responsibility.

 

 

So I should deny (fail) in taking all responsibility?

 

 

To be like Christ, yes.

 

 

Classic IH.  Playing dumb and twisting RNP's words.  Trolling for jesus is what he does best.

 

 

He's probably not even a Christian, but a Poe instead.

[Roz]

Hah, I've thought about that for quite some time, like the AE's Mark from Austin Stone Church:

 

[Aries256]

SMH. I can't see how anyone can be so dumb, and or if applicable despicable and evil enough to defend the abrahamic "god" idea. It's the same as defending hitler.

[bornagainathiest]

 

 

 

I'm glad Dusty is not God.

 

"blink"

My breakfast is ready and done the moment I awaken.

 

"blink"

My garden is already cultivated and watered.

 

"blink"

My house is all cleaned and dishes washed.

 

"blink"

I go fishing and every time I cast, I catch the big one.

I curse Dusty and BAM!!!...I'm outta here 

 

 

Concerning Noah:

He warned the people for 120 years.

 

 

I've been warning you not to dodge me for just a little while, Ironhorse.

 

There's the unfinished business about Copernicus and those six (6) responses you owe me. 

[bornagainathiest]

 

IH's yeshitwa:

Even though he has infinite power and claims omnipotence, he CHOSE to select a pair of each animal species and then subject the remaining animals to a slow agonizing drowning death.

Also drowned the old, the young, the infirm, the crippled, the invalid, the sick, the starving, etc. etc. 

 

Dusty would make a better god.  IH, you really should answer BAA's pointed questions to you before rambling on.

 

 

So a God that constantly manipulates (and physically intervenes) in your life is your idea of a better God.

 

Concerning BAA's questions: He is welcome to start a thread and post them one at a time.

One at a time

 

 

Sounds good to me Ironhorse, here's the link... http://www.ex-christian.net/topic/62720-no-shit-sherlock/page-24#.U749NfldVzM

 

See you there!

[◊ crazyguy123 ◊]

SMH. I can't see how anyone can be so dumb, and or if applicable despicable and evil enough to defend the abrahamic "god" idea. It's the same as defending hitler.

 

I'd say that it's more like defending Sauron the dark lord and claiming that he is the Father of Light and that evil is nothing more than the absence of Sauron.

[Neverlandrut]

 

 

Concerning Noah:

He warned the people for 120 years.

 

Says the bible (which is hearsay). Plus this point is irrelevant. As a matter of fact, the longer he warned them, the more likely a catastrophic flood would have happen by chance anyway. Doesn't matter how long he warned them, the details of the story are physically impossible. Can you defend the "literal-ness" of the Noah story without invoking miraculous powers? Miraculous powers are the ultimate cop out, a force that by definition defies the laws of the universe and for which their exists no reliable, verifiable evidence.