pratt Posted June 21, 2014 Share Posted June 21, 2014 what does spiritually healing means? partial or complete healing? does it mean that once he was whipped, we are all right with god, or we still need "works",,,,,, god needs him to be whipped for spiritual healing to occur or it is just to fulfill the "sicko" prophesy? fully healed at resurrection is nonsense because you will not be healed but given a new body that decays not,,,,, you will have no more husband/wife relationship, father/son relationship or whatever relationship,,,, you will be bride of jesus singing hallelujah 24/7 till eternity....... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bfuddled Posted June 21, 2014 Share Posted June 21, 2014 This was one of the biggest issues for me that tipped the scales. My daughter is Type 1 diabetic (her pancreas does not produce insulin, due to an autoimmune disease, and she has to wear an insulin pump), and there was/is NO WAY anyone could have ever convinced me to take her to a "healing service" and subject her to that kind of false hope and inevitable disappointment. Even in the most devout of my Christian days I would not have believed that she had been "healed" and subsequently take her off her insulin, risking her life. When I realized that I didn't believe in God enough to think he would heal my daughter, I had to really look at how much "faith" I actually had. What kills me is that Christians go to the doctor/surgeon/etc and get cured/treated, and then "Praise God!" for the miracle. It must suck to be a doctor and have God get all the credit for the good that you do. I imagine they get sick of hearing people act as if science and/or people had nothing to do with it. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super Moderator TheRedneckProfessor Posted June 21, 2014 Author Super Moderator Share Posted June 21, 2014 This was one of the biggest issues for me that tipped the scales. My daughter is Type 1 diabetic (her pancreas does not produce insulin, due to an autoimmune disease, and she has to wear an insulin pump), and there was/is NO WAY anyone could have ever convinced me to take her to a "healing service" and subject her to that kind of false hope and inevitable disappointment. Even in the most devout of my Christian days I would not have believed that she had been "healed" and subsequently take her off her insulin, risking her life. When I realized that I didn't believe in God enough to think he would heal my daughter, I had to really look at how much "faith" I actually had. What kills me is that Christians go to the doctor/surgeon/etc and get cured/treated, and then "Praise God!" for the miracle. It must suck to be a doctor and have God get all the credit for the good that you do. I imagine they get sick of hearing people act as if science and/or people had nothing to do with it. There was a kid I went to highschool with who had an issue with his digestive system. I can't remember exactly what it was but whenever there was a flair-up, he'd be doubled over in pain for hours. A simple surgery would have corrected it and allowed him to live pain free. His parents refused to allow the surgery, preferring instead to wait on god's miraculous healing. You are a much better parent than they, bfuddled. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neverlandrut Posted June 21, 2014 Share Posted June 21, 2014 “…and by his stripes, we are healed.” Isaiah 53:5 I believe that is true. We are healed spiritually by Christ's atonement. We will be fully healed at the resurrection. I don't believe that this verse is a magic chant one use to claim physical healing in all things. The Bible does not promise us complete physical healing of every disease or affliction in this life. Paul requested three times to be healed physically and his request was not met. (2 Corinthians 12:1-10) The answer: “My grace is sufficient for you, for my power is made perfect in weakness.” God said no to Paul’s request for healing. Paul did not keep confessing "by his stripes" I’m healed and struggling in faith to make it happen. Paul accepted the Lord's answer. "Ask the Father whatever you will in my name, and he will give it you." -Jesus- No qualification there. It didn't say ask whatever "spiritual" thing you wish. There was no word for "spiritual" in Hebrew or Arimaic. Everything was the same, with no distinction. You are doing that stupid, moronic thing that most Christians do, which is add things to the text that aren't there to make it fit with your personal brand of Christian beliefs. Because You presuppose it to be true and are unwilling to consider the possibility it could be false, you will always find excuses and reinterpretations which twist the scriptures to say things that they don't actually say to make them fit and excuse their blatant failures and contradictions. Guess what! Muslims do the same thing with the Koran. They have apologetics too who can fabricate inferences about their texts that aren't supported by the text itself to make it fit and excuse contradictions. You can do that with any text! As long as you are adding to it what you want, you will always find excuses for it. If God's word needs that much excusing and help from fallible humans, then it is not God's word! As far as Paul goes, sounds like he ran into that same thing, unanswered prayer, even though Jesus said we would receive whatever we asked using his name. Paul probably didn't know Jesus said this. Since many of his writings predate the gospels, it's most likely he knew of Jesus through oral tales about Jesus. Before you go spouting how Paul was a devout Pharasee before converting so his conversion must have been authentic and based on the "truth of Jesus," realize that we actually know very little about Paul outside the bible. And we have no reason to suppose the details about him in the bible are all true and accurate. He could have had any number of motivations for converting. Perhaps he pissed off the Sanhedrin and was cast out, and turned to the Christians for a furthering of his religious career, having no other viable option. Given that he was already a very religious and superstitious man, makes sense that his blind faith superstition spilled into his Christianity. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RipVanWinkle Posted June 21, 2014 Share Posted June 21, 2014 " You are doing that stupid, moronic thing that most Christians do, which is add things to the text that aren't there to make it fit with your personal brand of Christian beliefs." Neverlandrut" Truer words were never spoken. I would go even one step further and strike Christian from the above quote, because by time he/she has added whatever makes it say what it didn't, the quote is no longer Xtian. See change above. bill Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ironhorse Posted June 22, 2014 Share Posted June 22, 2014 "Ask the Father whatever you will in my name, and he will give it you." -Jesus Jesus is not saying you can ask anything and He will do it. He is saying ask anything, in my name and He will do it. Thinking that “in my name” simply means using the name of Jesus as a magic word to gain out heart's desires is not what he meant. It means our request must be in accordance to his will and purpose. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pratt Posted June 22, 2014 Share Posted June 22, 2014 "Ask the Father whatever you will in my name, and he will give it you." -Jesus Jesus is not saying you can ask anything and He will do it. He is saying ask anything, in my name and He will do it. Thinking that “in my name” simply means using the name of Jesus as a magic word to gain out heart's desires is not what he meant. It means our request must be in accordance to his will and purpose. SAME SHIT DIFFERENT DAY Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super Moderator TheRedneckProfessor Posted June 22, 2014 Author Super Moderator Share Posted June 22, 2014 "Ask the Father whatever you will in my name, and he will give it you." -Jesus Jesus is not saying you can ask anything and He will do it. He is saying ask anything, in my name and He will do it. Thinking that “in my name” simply means using the name of Jesus as a magic word to gain out heart's desires is not what he meant. It means our request must be in accordance to his will and purpose. If it's his will and purpose, why would we need to ask him to do it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisdownunder Posted June 22, 2014 Share Posted June 22, 2014 "Ask the Father whatever you will in my name, and he will give it you." -Jesus Jesus is not saying you can ask anything and He will do it. He is saying ask anything, in my name and He will do it. Thinking that “in my name” simply means using the name of Jesus as a magic word to gain out heart's desires is not what he meant. It means our request must be in accordance to his will and purpose. Psalm 37:4Delight thyself also in the Lord; and he shall give thee the desires of thine heart. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gus Posted June 22, 2014 Share Posted June 22, 2014 “…And by his stripes, we are healed.” Isaiah 53:5 I believe that is true. We are healed spiritually by Christ's atonement. We will be fully healed at the resurrection. I don't believe that this verse is a magic chant one use to claim physical healing in all things. The Bible does not promise us complete physical healing of every disease or affliction in this life. Paul requested three times to be healed physically and his request was not met. (2 Corinthians 12:1-10) The answer: “My grace is sufficient for you, for my power is made perfect in weakness.” God said no to Paul’s request for healing. Paul did not keep confessing "by his stripes" I’m healed and struggling in faith to make it happen. Paul accepted the Lord's answer. Pauls request was not for physical healing. This is made clear in 2 Corinthians 12:7-10. His 'thorn in the flesh' was a 'messenger of Satan', to cause him trouble. It was oppression, and he had that by being whipped, beaten with rods, stoned, ship wrecked, suffering tiredness, hunger, thirst and so on. Through Christ's atonement, there is redemption from sickness, but not from persecution. 2 Timothy 3:12 says that all who live in Christ shall suffer persecution. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bornagainathiest Posted June 22, 2014 Share Posted June 22, 2014 “…And by his stripes, we are healed.” Isaiah 53:5 I believe that is true. We are healed spiritually by Christ's atonement. We will be fully healed at the resurrection. I don't believe that this verse is a magic chant one use to claim physical healing in all things. The Bible does not promise us complete physical healing of every disease or affliction in this life. Paul requested three times to be healed physically and his request was not met. (2 Corinthians 12:1-10) The answer: “My grace is sufficient for you, for my power is made perfect in weakness.” God said no to Paul’s request for healing. Paul did not keep confessing "by his stripes" I’m healed and struggling in faith to make it happen. Paul accepted the Lord's answer. Pauls request was not for physical healing. This is made clear in 2 Corinthians 12:7-10. His 'thorn in the flesh' was a 'messenger of Satan', to cause him trouble. It was oppression, and he had that by being whipped, beaten with rods, stoned, ship wrecked, suffering tiredness, hunger, thirst and so on. Through Christ's atonement, there is redemption from sickness, but not from persecution. 2 Timothy 3:12 says that all who live in Christ shall suffer persecution. deleted post Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neverlandrut Posted June 22, 2014 Share Posted June 22, 2014 "Ask the Father whatever you will in my name, and he will give it you." -Jesus Jesus is not saying you can ask anything and He will do it. He is saying ask anything, in my name and He will do it. Thinking that “in my name” simply means using the name of Jesus as a magic word to gain out heart's desires is not what he meant. It means our request must be in accordance to his will and purpose. Prove it. So it should read, "Ask whatever I want, and I will give it to you." God could have made that more clear. If god is all powerful, there is absolutely no need to ask him for his will to be done. That would be pointless since it would be impossible for his will not to be done. No, your explanation makes no sense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gus Posted June 22, 2014 Share Posted June 22, 2014 I won’t bother to ask why god doesn’t heal people. We already know the answer to that: It just isn’t god’s will. But that is precisely the sticking point I wish to address here. “…and by his stripes, we are healed.” Isaiah 53:5 Based upon this scripture (and its reiteration in the writings of paul), we are invited to believe that Jesus was beaten so that he could identify with the pain of sickness, injury, and disease that we all suffer. Further, we are told that those stripes were gladly accepted by Jesus in order to provide for our healing. Yet, it’s never his will to heal anyone. Unfortunately many people do feel it is not always God's will to heal but is that true? However 17 times in the Gospels Jesus healed all of the sick who where present. 47 other times he healed one or two people at a time. Nowhere do we see Jesus refusing to heal anyone. Jesus said he could do nothing of himself but only what he saw the father do. In light of this, Jesus' actions are proof enough that is always God's will to heal. It's easy for me to say that of course, but what experience of it have I actually seen? A bit about my personal life. When I started to believe in God, I knew that the bible had to be true, or none of it can be trusted. So to me, healing would have to be true of course. Now in my family, my mum is currently in a care home for the mentally unwell. I have had deal with some very difficult times in my life through this, and it has driven my sister to alcoholism. The medical profession have said there is no hope, she will get worse. This drove me to seeking answers in Gods healing. For my family, I don't yet have those answers, and that has been challenging. I was also at a healing event one night, and an old lady was asked to stand up from her wheel chair, and the visiting minister proclaimed she could now walk again. He let go of her, and she fell, bashing he head on the chair on the way down. An ambulance was called, and my she was taken away. Nothing was really said of it in that Church again, but that stopped me going as I thought this is wrong, something is not right. However, I still had a desire to see if any of this should be true, so I researched, I brought books on healing, I listened to podcasts , etc. Eventually I realised that if God has already provided the healing, we didn't need to ask for it. We could use what we have been given. This was a revelation for me, and I met some men in a Church who had started to think the same way. We started a healing prayer group, to see what would happen. We have a lot to learn, but the what we have concluded is that it is not God who is holding back, it is either we are doing something wrong, or not doing something. Despite that, I have seen people healed from many sicknesses. On a personal level, a dear friend of mine, her dad was diagnosed with cancer of the spine. He was shown scans, it did not look good. We prayed, and rather than asking for healing, we belief he already had it, and commanded the healing to take place. The next scan the tumour had shrunk so much the doctors thought they got it wrong the first time. The third scan it had gone completely! Some of the guys in our group have now started healing on the streets and again have seen many amazing healings, and some failures too. We don't have all the answers yet, but we know it is God's will to heal, and that gives us the strength to keep pushing into it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ravenstar Posted June 22, 2014 Share Posted June 22, 2014 "Ask the Father whatever you will in my name, and he will give it you." -Jesus Jesus is not saying you can ask anything and He will do it. He is saying ask anything, in my name and He will do it. Thinking that “in my name” simply means using the name of Jesus as a magic word to gain out heart's desires is not what he meant. It means our request must be in accordance to his will and purpose. BULLSHIT 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Storm Posted June 22, 2014 Share Posted June 22, 2014 "Ask the Father whatever you will in my name, and he will give it you." -Jesus Jesus is not saying you can ask anything and He will do it. He is saying ask anything, in my name and He will do it. Thinking that “in my name” simply means using the name of Jesus as a magic word to gain out heart's desires is not what he meant. It means our request must be in accordance to his will and purpose. The problem with this line of thinking is that you assume that God's will is static. But the Bible clearly teaches that his will can be changed. Read Jonah. Read about Moses. There are plenty of other stories that show that his will was changed through prayer. So your interpretation is not consistent with scripture. You are grasping to try and reconcile this anomoly and make it work in your mind. The reality is is that God disappoints his people. Every day. No explanation can be gleaned from the Bible as to why this occurs. It isn't because "it wasn't his will", its because he doesn't do what his word says he will. One can then draw a logical conclusion that he either can't do it, won't do it, or doesn't exist. Bible says he can, and will. But he doesn't. Only thing left is he doesn't exist. That's what I have come to know in my life. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super Moderator buffettphan Posted June 22, 2014 Super Moderator Share Posted June 22, 2014 Some of the guys in our group have now started healing on the streets and again have seen many amazing healings, and some failures too. We don't have all the answers yet, but we know it is God's will to heal, and that gives us the strength to keep pushing into it. Let us know when they close the hospitals for lack of business. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gus Posted June 22, 2014 Share Posted June 22, 2014 “…And by his stripes, we are healed.” Isaiah 53:5 I believe that is true. We are healed spiritually by Christ's atonement. We will be fully healed at the resurrection. I don't believe that this verse is a magic chant one use to claim physical healing in all things. The Bible does not promise us complete physical healing of every disease or affliction in this life. Paul requested three times to be healed physically and his request was not met. (2 Corinthians 12:1-10) The answer: “My grace is sufficient for you, for my power is made perfect in weakness.” God said no to Paul’s request for healing. Paul did not keep confessing "by his stripes" I’m healed and struggling in faith to make it happen. Paul accepted the Lord's answer. Pauls request was not for physical healing. This is made clear in 2 Corinthians 12:7-10. His 'thorn in the flesh' was a 'messenger of Satan', to cause him trouble. It was oppression, and he had that by being whipped, beaten with rods, stoned, ship wrecked, suffering tiredness, hunger, thirst and so on. Through Christ's atonement, there is redemption from sickness, but not from persecution. 2 Timothy 3:12 says that all who live in Christ shall suffer persecution. One christian disagrees with another christian's interpretation of god's divine revelation? Say it ain't so! Disagreeing is okay, this is a discussion forum after all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super Moderator TheRedneckProfessor Posted June 22, 2014 Author Super Moderator Share Posted June 22, 2014 I won’t bother to ask why god doesn’t heal people. We already know the answer to that: It just isn’t god’s will. But that is precisely the sticking point I wish to address here. “…and by his stripes, we are healed.” Isaiah 53:5 Based upon this scripture (and its reiteration in the writings of paul), we are invited to believe that Jesus was beaten so that he could identify with the pain of sickness, injury, and disease that we all suffer. Further, we are told that those stripes were gladly accepted by Jesus in order to provide for our healing. Yet, it’s never his will to heal anyone. Unfortunately many people do feel it is not always God's will to heal but is that true? However 17 times in the Gospels Jesus healed all of the sick who where present. 47 other times he healed one or two people at a time. Nowhere do we see Jesus refusing to heal anyone. Jesus said he could do nothing of himself but only what he saw the father do. In light of this, Jesus' actions are proof enough that is always God's will to heal. It's easy for me to say that of course, but what experience of it have I actually seen? A bit about my personal life. When I started to believe in God, I knew that the bible had to be true, or none of it can be trusted. So to me, healing would have to be true of course. Now in my family, my mum is currently in a care home for the mentally unwell. I have had deal with some very difficult times in my life through this, and it has driven my sister to alcoholism. The medical profession have said there is no hope, she will get worse. This drove me to seeking answers in Gods healing. For my family, I don't yet have those answers, and that has been challenging. I was also at a healing event one night, and an old lady was asked to stand up from her wheel chair, and the visiting minister proclaimed she could now walk again. He let go of her, and she fell, bashing he head on the chair on the way down. An ambulance was called, and my she was taken away. Nothing was really said of it in that Church again, but that stopped me going as I thought this is wrong, something is not right. However, I still had a desire to see if any of this should be true, so I researched, I brought books on healing, I listened to podcasts , etc. Eventually I realised that if God has already provided the healing, we didn't need to ask for it. We could use what we have been given. This was a revelation for me, and I met some men in a Church who had started to think the same way. We started a healing prayer group, to see what would happen. We have a lot to learn, but the what we have concluded is that it is not God who is holding back, it is either we are doing something wrong, or not doing something. Despite that, I have seen people healed from many sicknesses. On a personal level, a dear friend of mine, her dad was diagnosed with cancer of the spine. He was shown scans, it did not look good. We prayed, and rather than asking for healing, we belief he already had it, and commanded the healing to take place. The next scan the tumour had shrunk so much the doctors thought they got it wrong the first time. The third scan it had gone completely! Some of the guys in our group have now started healing on the streets and again have seen many amazing healings, and some failures too. We don't have all the answers yet, but we know it is God's will to heal, and that gives us the strength to keep pushing into it. I would begin by cautioning you against making unfounded assertions, such as "the bible is true" in this forum. While this thread does not deal with the validity of scripture per se, you will quickly find the company here have no problem tearing holes in truth claims. I would further advise against basing yet more assertions upon an already unsupported claim. I cite your claim that healing must be true, since the bible says it is and the bible is true. Secondly, anecdotes such as yours are nothing new. I heard stories like that myself growing up, even told some myself. The fact is, though, cancer does sometimes go into remission. Tumors do sometimes shrink. There is nothing miraculous about coincidence. Hospitals wouldn't exist if stories like yours were real. However, reality demonstrates that miraculous healings simply aren't what the bible claims them to be. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roz Posted June 22, 2014 Share Posted June 22, 2014 40k+ groups that disagree, and these are the ones who are big enough to not be called cults. Then count up the thousand offshoots of these mainline denominations. All stemming from 1 instructional book. Christians love to call it the basic instruction before leaving earth. Uh huh... Some basic instruction. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mymistake Posted June 22, 2014 Share Posted June 22, 2014 We have a lot to learn, but the what we have concluded is that it is not God who is holding back, it is either we are doing something wrong, or not doing something. Despite that, I have seen people healed from many sicknesses. On a personal level, a dear friend of mine, her dad was diagnosed with cancer of the spine. He was shown scans, it did not look good. We prayed, and rather than asking for healing, we belief he already had it, and commanded the healing to take place. The next scan the tumour had shrunk so much the doctors thought they got it wrong the first time. The third scan it had gone completely! Imagine what would have happened if humans had not created the science that gave us medical technology. Then there would be no doctor and no scan. Then you wouldn't know to pray. Then the tumor would have killed you friend's dad. So medical science saved him. While he was at the hospital getting these scans he was also getting the best medical treatment humans have - right? 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gus Posted June 22, 2014 Share Posted June 22, 2014 I won’t bother to ask why god doesn’t heal people. We already know the answer to that: It just isn’t god’s will. But that is precisely the sticking point I wish to address here. “…And by his stripes, we are healed.” Isaiah 53:5 Based upon this scripture (and its reiteration in the writings of paul), we are invited to believe that Jesus was beaten so that he could identify with the pain of sickness, injury, and disease that we all suffer. Further, we are told that those stripes were gladly accepted by Jesus in order to provide for our healing. Yet, it’s never his will to heal anyone. Unfortunately many people do feel it is not always God's will to heal but is that true? However 17 times in the Gospels Jesus healed all of the sick who where present. 47 other times he healed one or two people at a time. Nowhere do we see Jesus refusing to heal anyone. Jesus said he could do nothing of himself but only what he saw the father do. In light of this, Jesus' actions are proof enough that is always God's will to heal. It's easy for me to say that of course, but what experience of it have I actually seen? A bit about my personal life. When I started to believe in God, I knew that the bible had to be true, or none of it can be trusted. So to me, healing would have to be true of course. Now in my family, my mum is currently in a care home for the mentally unwell. I have had deal with some very difficult times in my life through this, and it has driven my sister to alcoholism. The medical profession have said there is no hope, she will get worse. This drove me to seeking answers in Gods healing. For my family, I don't yet have those answers, and that has been challenging. I was also at a healing event one night, and an old lady was asked to stand up from her wheel chair, and the visiting minister proclaimed she could now walk again. He let go of her, and she fell, bashing he head on the chair on the way down. An ambulance was called, and my she was taken away. Nothing was really said of it in that Church again, but that stopped me going as I thought this is wrong, something is not right. However, I still had a desire to see if any of this should be true, so I researched, I brought books on healing, I listened to podcasts , etc. Eventually I realised that if God has already provided the healing, we didn't need to ask for it. We could use what we have been given. This was a revelation for me, and I met some men in a Church who had started to think the same way. We started a healing prayer group, to see what would happen. We have a lot to learn, but the what we have concluded is that it is not God who is holding back, it is either we are doing something wrong, or not doing something. Despite that, I have seen people healed from many sicknesses. On a personal level, a dear friend of mine, her dad was diagnosed with cancer of the spine. He was shown scans, it did not look good. We prayed, and rather than asking for healing, we belief he already had it, and commanded the healing to take place. The next scan the tumour had shrunk so much the doctors thought they got it wrong the first time. The third scan it had gone completely! Some of the guys in our group have now started healing on the streets and again have seen many amazing healings, and some failures too. We don't have all the answers yet, but we know it is God's will to heal, and that gives us the strength to keep pushing into it. I would begin by cautioning you against making unfounded assertions, such as "the bible is true" in this forum. While this thread does not deal with the validity of scripture per se, you will quickly find the company here have no problem tearing holes in truth claims. I would further advise against basing yet more assertions upon an already unsupported claim. I cite your claim that healing must be true, since the bible says it is and the bible is true. Secondly, anecdotes such as yours are nothing new. I heard stories like that myself growing up, even told some myself. The fact is, though, cancer does sometimes go into remission. Tumors do sometimes shrink. There is nothing miraculous about coincidence. Hospitals wouldn't exist if stories like yours were real. However, reality demonstrates that miraculous healings simply aren't what the bible claims them to be. The op stated that it is not Gods will to heal. All I am doing is giving an account of my experines that to me say otherwise. I don't expect many to believe it. Im not here to change anyones views. If God is going to be discussed, then of course for me, the Bible is true. I realise that many on here don't feel that way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gus Posted June 22, 2014 Share Posted June 22, 2014 We have a lot to learn, but the what we have concluded is that it is not God who is holding back, it is either we are doing something wrong, or not doing something. Despite that, I have seen people healed from many sicknesses. On a personal level, a dear friend of mine, her dad was diagnosed with cancer of the spine. He was shown scans, it did not look good. We prayed, and rather than asking for healing, we belief he already had it, and commanded the healing to take place. The next scan the tumour had shrunk so much the doctors thought they got it wrong the first time. The third scan it had gone completely! Imagine what would have happened if humans had not created the science that gave us medical technology. Then there would be no doctor and no scan. Then you wouldn't know to pray. Then the tumour would have killed you friend's dad. So medical science saved him. While he was at the hospital getting these scans he was also getting the best medical treatment humans have — right? Yes, I agree with you. Jesus told the sick to go and be checked out by the prsiets who where the doctors of their time. I have nothing against science or medical technology, not sure why you think I may have. Your right, the scan did show what to pray for. I go to the doctors, I recently had some moles surgically removed. I think God has given us a great capacity to learn and care for each other. If you read my profile, you will see i work in the fitness profession. I work with hospitals and doctors with clients who suffer a great number of illness. That does not stop me from believing in supernatural healing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sdelsolray Posted June 22, 2014 Share Posted June 22, 2014 The op stated that it is not Gods will to heal. All I am doing is giving an account of my experines that to me say otherwise. I don't expect many to believe it. Im not here to change anyones views. If God is going to be discussed, then of course for me, the Bible is true. I realise that many on here don't feel that way. I would suspect that you therefore have nothing else to say. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
◊ crazyguy123 ◊ Posted June 22, 2014 Share Posted June 22, 2014 We have a lot to learn, but the what we have concluded is that it is not God who is holding back, it is either we are doing something wrong, or not doing something. Despite that, I have seen people healed from many sicknesses. On a personal level, a dear friend of mine, her dad was diagnosed with cancer of the spine. He was shown scans, it did not look good. We prayed, and rather than asking for healing, we belief he already had it, and commanded the healing to take place. The next scan the tumour had shrunk so much the doctors thought they got it wrong the first time. The third scan it had gone completely! Imagine what would have happened if humans had not created the science that gave us medical technology. Then there would be no doctor and no scan. Then you wouldn't know to pray. Then the tumour would have killed you friend's dad. So medical science saved him. While he was at the hospital getting these scans he was also getting the best medical treatment humans have — right? Yes, I agree with you. Jesus told the sick to go and be checked out by the prsiets who where the doctors of their time. I have nothing against science or medical technology, not sure why you think I may have. Your right, the scan did show what to pray for. I go to the doctors, I recently had some moles surgically removed. I think God has given us a great capacity to learn and care for each other. If you read my profile, you will see i work in the fitness profession. I work with hospitals and doctors with clients who suffer a great number of illness. That does not stop me from believing in supernatural healing. But, if it is medical science that saved your friend's dad, then how can you say that prayer had anything to do with it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super Moderator TheRedneckProfessor Posted June 22, 2014 Author Super Moderator Share Posted June 22, 2014 The op stated that it is not Gods will to heal. All I am doing is giving an account of my experines that to me say otherwise. I don't expect many to believe it. Im not here to change anyones views. If God is going to be discussed, then of course for me, the Bible is true. I realise that many on here don't feel that way. Many new christians say the same thing: "I'm not here to change anyone's mind. I realise most here don't believe as I do. I know the bible won't be accepted as proof. Et cetera." Tell me, honestly, what is your motivation for being here? "I just enjoy a good debate." Does this mean you really enjoy an open and honest debate or do you just want to keep pressing your arguments long after they've been refuted? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts