mymistake Posted September 3, 2014 Share Posted September 3, 2014 My understanding is that fear is secondary not primary. Right. Fear is not a primary emotion. Grace is a primary emotion because grace comes from the creator of the universe who dwells inside of us even though we can't see him. But not fear. How did we get sidetracked into this mess? Oh right, you were saying that ex-Christians have to reach out to the Christians preachers who come to an EX -Christian website to peach to people who don't want to hear it and are done with faith. And you couldn't justify your demands so you decided to talk about my family instead. Let's remember that you have no justification for why we should give our preaching visitors any respect if they give none to us. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest end3 Posted September 3, 2014 Share Posted September 3, 2014 My understanding is that fear is secondary not primary. Right. Fear is not a primary emotion. Grace is a primary emotion because grace comes from the creator of the universe who dwells inside of us even though we can't see him. But not fear. How did we get sidetracked into this mess? Oh right, you were saying that ex-Christians have to reach out to the Christians preachers who come to an EX -Christian website to peach to people who don't want to hear it and are done with faith. And you couldn't justify your demands so you decided to talk about my family instead. Let's remember that you have no justification for why we should give our preaching visitors any respect if they give none to us. Because the title of the thread sir, is about outreach. You know, suggestions of how we could visit with these people rather than make enemies. The subject of the thread is NOT about EX-C resident's justification for doing so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mymistake Posted September 3, 2014 Share Posted September 3, 2014 My understanding is that fear is secondary not primary. Right. Fear is not a primary emotion. Grace is a primary emotion because grace comes from the creator of the universe who dwells inside of us even though we can't see him. But not fear. How did we get sidetracked into this mess? Oh right, you were saying that ex-Christians have to reach out to the Christians preachers who come to an EX -Christian website to peach to people who don't want to hear it and are done with faith. And you couldn't justify your demands so you decided to talk about my family instead. Let's remember that you have no justification for why we should give our preaching visitors any respect if they give none to us. Because the title of the thread sir, is about outreach. You know, suggestions of how we could visit with these people rather than make enemies. The subject of the thread is NOT about EX-C resident's justification for doing so. Directionless wanted for us to brainstorm ways to get Christians to participate in more debates. It is not a debate if the Christians get to preach and the ex-Christians do not offer any opinion. A once sided conversation is a monolog. Directionless wanted more Christians to take part in the very thing that demonstrates that the Christian faith is false. And Christians generally run away from that unless they wrap their brain in delusion the way IH does. Thackerie and Vigile covered this on page 1. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bornagainathiest Posted September 3, 2014 Share Posted September 3, 2014 My understanding is that fear is secondary not primary. Right. Fear is not a primary emotion. Grace is a primary emotion because grace comes from the creator of the universe who dwells inside of us even though we can't see him. But not fear. How did we get sidetracked into this mess? Oh right, you were saying that ex-Christians have to reach out to the Christians preachers who come to an EX -Christian website to peach to people who don't want to hear it and are done with faith. And you couldn't justify your demands so you decided to talk about my family instead. Let's remember that you have no justification for why we should give our preaching visitors any respect if they give none to us. Because the title of the thread sir, is about outreach. You know, suggestions of how we could visit with these people rather than make enemies. The subject of the thread is NOT about EX-C resident's justification for doing so. You're taking Directionless' title of this thread as valid, End. Before you can do that there's an important question to answer. Is it? Imho, a good way to discover if it is or not is to tackle those questions Margee's interested in. Answering them should help us discover if outreach to Christians is valid or not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest end3 Posted September 3, 2014 Share Posted September 3, 2014 bornagainathiest, on 26 Aug 2014 - 02:58 AM, said: Perhaps you'd like to answer some questions about grace, please End? 1. Why do you think grace applies here, in an Ex-Christian forum, the purpose of which is to encourage those leaving the Christian faith and to be a resource for them in their journey away from Christ and his grace? Because I think grace or the practice, is love for others by acknowledging we are all on a path and none without fault. In other words, you can practice grace without acknowledging Christ's/God's grace. Two independent things IMO. 2. According to Hebrews 6 : 4 - 8, (please re-read this passage to refresh your memory) we Ex-Christians have rejected God's grace and cannot come under his grace again. So how does God's grace us apply to us now? Seems like I am remembering the recrucifying thing in there somewhere. I didn't re-read. Specifically, IMO, it would mean that you would need to get pretty darn close to the mark for rejecting Christ's sacrifice. 3. If you think that God's grace still applies to us Ex-Christians in any way, would you please show us the scripture where it says so? Again, in practice, grace can be very applicable....whether you choose to assign this to God's grace is independent of practice. 4. Assuming your definition of grace is something other than the Biblical one, could you please tell us in as plain and simple terms what you think grace is? Sure, I feel like it is acknowledgement and forgiveness and understanding for any shortcomings during our paths/journeys/lives. I certainly make mistakes and I would hope people would have grace for my lack of omniscience. 5. Then, having given your definition of grace, could also explain, in equally plain and simple terms, why you think it applies to us? See above. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bornagainathiest Posted September 3, 2014 Share Posted September 3, 2014 bornagainathiest, on 26 Aug 2014 - 02:58 AM, said: Perhaps you'd like to answer some questions about grace, please End? 1. Why do you think grace applies here, in an Ex-Christian forum, the purpose of which is to encourage those leaving the Christian faith and to be a resource for them in their journey away from Christ and his grace? Because I think grace or the practice, is love for others by acknowledging we are all on a path and none without fault. In other words, you can practice grace without acknowledging Christ's/God's grace. Two independent things IMO. Why should your notion of non-Christian grace overrule the perfectly adequate rules and guidelines of this forum? Why should we aspire to your notion of non-Christian grace and not someone else's? What makes you right about grace and not somebody else? 2. According to Hebrews 6 : 4 - 8, (please re-read this passage to refresh your memory) we Ex-Christians have rejected God's grace and cannot come under his grace again. So how does God's grace us apply to us now? Seems like I am remembering the recrucifying thing in there somewhere. I didn't re-read. Specifically, IMO, it would mean that you would need to get pretty darn close to the mark for rejecting Christ's sacrifice. Then please take the time to read and understand that passage from Hebrews, End. We Ex-Christians have rejected Christ's sacrifice. Hebrews is the scriptural authorization of why God's grace no longer applies to any Ex-Christians in this forum. The non-Christians here aren't under God's grace either. Sure, they can come under it... but only if they become Christians. Until that time they are under the curses of sin and death. So, neither the Ex-Christians or the non-Christians here are under God's grace. The only people in this forum who are under God's grace are those who are Christians. 3. If you think that God's grace still applies to us Ex-Christians in any way, would you please show us the scripture where it says so? Again, in practice, grace can be very applicable....whether you choose to assign this to God's grace is independent of practice. Very applicable... in your opinion. Why should your opinion be the thing that we aspire to? 4. Assuming your definition of grace is something other than the Biblical one, could you please tell us in as plain and simple terms what you think grace is? Sure, I feel like it is acknowledgement and forgiveness and understanding for any shortcomings during our paths/journeys/lives. I certainly make mistakes and I would hope people would have grace for my lack of omniscience. Thank you. So would this forgiveness include you forgiving MyMistake for the harsh words he used against you? 5. Then, having given your definition of grace, could also explain, in equally plain and simple terms, why you think it applies to us? See above. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leo Posted September 5, 2014 Share Posted September 5, 2014 Directionless, There is a site called BeliefNet, I believe it is called. CNN has a Beliefs blog also, and many Christians do post on it. My wife used to send articles from there, articles that were controversial to the main Fundagelical traditions. There are always comments posted on those sites, though I don't know how tightly moderated they are. And the comments are often from either evangelical Christians or atheists. What we almost never see are responses from the so-called liberal Christians. The alleged threat against fundamentalist evangelical Christianity, that threat they tell us is taking over the world. You simply do not see that threat anywhere. No comments in these forums. The people who respond are basically atheist or evangelical Christian. Sometimes a Catholic or two. But anyway you might find that site instructive, or both of them. BeliefNet and the CNN Belief blog. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
directionless Posted September 11, 2014 Author Share Posted September 11, 2014 Directionless, There is a site called BeliefNet, I believe it is called. CNN has a Beliefs blog also, and many Christians do post on it. My wife used to send articles from there, articles that were controversial to the main Fundagelical traditions. There are always comments posted on those sites, though I don't know how tightly moderated they are. And the comments are often from either evangelical Christians or atheists. What we almost never see are responses from the so-called liberal Christians. The alleged threat against fundamentalist evangelical Christianity, that threat they tell us is taking over the world. You simply do not see that threat anywhere. No comments in these forums. The people who respond are basically atheist or evangelical Christian. Sometimes a Catholic or two. But anyway you might find that site instructive, or both of them. BeliefNet and the CNN Belief blog. thanks, Leo. I added those to my bookmarks. I had been participating in a Christian forum to ask various questions, but it often felt like I was a cockroach crawling up Mt. Olympus to ask my questions of Zeus. "What brings you here, oh tiny mortal cockroach? What questions would you have me answer?" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
midniterider Posted September 11, 2014 Share Posted September 11, 2014 Wouldn't it be nice if more Christians participated in debates? Maybe we can brainstorm in this thread and find a way to accomplish that goal? Not on this site, no. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
directionless Posted September 11, 2014 Author Share Posted September 11, 2014 Wouldn't it be nice if more Christians participated in debates? Maybe we can brainstorm in this thread and find a way to accomplish that goal? Not on this site, no. O.k. that seems to be the opinion of others also. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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