Creation, God, Nothing And Our Universe

[Guest end3]

So now there is a required number of people for support? The Spirituality forum doesn't get a lot traffic. But it's the quality, not the quantity that matters here. He had a place where there were 2 people willing to talk to him on his own level, and he thumbed his nose at it and decided instead to insult people on this thread.

 

This is not the fault of the people here at all.

How does this exclude the point I am trying to convey? Support seemed to work well in the Spiritually forum. Keith is a moderator that talks his language and you are well equipped to do that as well. Not so much for the rest of the mob here.

[Orbit]

 

 

 

We are talking "The Soul and I"? The thread where he immediately comes out and apologizes for his problems????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????

And where we immediately support him? Why, yes, that would be the one!

 

I got ya, There were a sum TWO of you in that conversation. The rest of this site acted like they always do.

 

 

If I had found that conversation interesting I would have joined it, but I didn't, so I stayed out of it.  It's not my fault that foak wasn't happy with that conversation and came here to lash out at us for not agreeing with him.

 

I actually think the reason that he wasn't happy with it is because there was no one to fight with.

[FreeThinkerNZ]

 

I still fail to see how asking someone who has made a positive claim to provide support for that claim could be considered rude. 

 

Is it because you know that we know that most of the claims made by believers cannot be supported?

No, not at all. The guy comes in with a problem. If it had been a non-believer, there would have been multiple multiple offers for understanding. He had some and then honest, direct questioning about his views. When no one would hear the language in which he expressed his views, there was more pressure and demands for him to state his position in resident terms. I think he got frustrated and mad. Basically, people here do facts and logic and it's my opinion that this only addresses part of reality.....or until facts and logic complete the picture, if possible. I personally don't believe that will come to pass.

 

I really think people shift to emphasis on facts, logic, and science to compensate for whatever harm religion did. I choose both and don't think science will ever dismiss Christianity.

 

Darn it, I meant to click reply and gave you upvote by mistake.

 

I've already explained to you why we value facts and logic over religious faith, it's because it is a better framework as shown by the history of human development.  It's got nothing to do with the harm religion did. You can't choose science and xianity together because science has disproven the bible.

[Guest end3]

Y'all be the people you want to be. I don't agree with a good bit of it here.

[Guest end3]

I've already explained to you why we value facts and logic over religious faith, it's because it is a better framework as shown by the history of human development.  It's got nothing to do with the harm religion did. You can't choose science and xianity together because science has disproven the bible.

Does this not make my point? You CAN NOT do it any other way because science knows the facts and proves....and we say so, and your views don't count and if you are the least bit mental, I will give you 2.5 chances to get this message because it has been proven that 2.5 times is sufficient for the least mental person....btw, we don't understand mental....nonetheless, here, take this pill dumbass, non-communicative less than us.

 

lol, good god.

[Thackerie]

 

That happens a lot in the Den.

 

It's what we Lion's do.

 

Our playground, our rules.

Rationalization for being rude.

 

While you're at it captain science, marry rude with science....take your time.

 

 

It's been years since End3 said that I'm stupid because my brain has been damaged by my multiple sclerosis. I haven't posted anything directly at him since then because I don't want to waste time with such nasty, hurtful people.

 

And now he's scolding us for being rude ????????

[TheRedneckProfessor]

 

I still fail to see how asking someone who has made a positive claim to provide support for that claim could be considered rude. 

 

Is it because you know that we know that most of the claims made by believers cannot be supported?

No, not at all. The guy comes in with a problem. If it had been a non-believer, there would have been multiple multiple offers for understanding. He had some and then honest, direct questioning about his views. When no one would hear the language in which he expressed his views, there was more pressure and demands for him to state his position in resident terms. I think he got frustrated and mad. Basically, people here do facts and logic and it's my opinion that this only addresses part of reality.....or until facts and logic complete the picture, if possible. I personally don't believe that will come to pass.

 

I really think people shift to emphasis on facts, logic, and science to compensate for whatever harm religion did. I choose both and don't think science will ever dismiss Christianity.

 

No, End3.  I'm sorry but this has simply gone beyond the point of being disingenuous.  This has gotten to the point of you flat out lying. 

 

Foak was being understood and responded to in the Spirituality Forum.  You can't not know that by now; too many people have pointed it out to you on too many occasions. 

 

If he didn't like the response he got there, then it was just plain ignorant for him to come here.

 

Stop lying and accept the fact that we are not to blame for the actions of another.

[TheRedneckProfessor]

Besides, End3, how much effort have you spent over the last two days tearing us all down for not understanding him compared to the amount of effort you've spent reaching out to foak yourself?  I'm betting you'd rather argue your points with us than actually practice them in real life.

[Orbit]

 

I've already explained to you why we value facts and logic over religious faith, it's because it is a better framework as shown by the history of human development.  It's got nothing to do with the harm religion did. You can't choose science and xianity together because science has disproven the bible.

Does this not make my point? You CAN NOT do it any other way because science knows the facts and proves....and we say so, and your views don't count and if you are the least bit mental, I will give you 2.5 chances to get this message because it has been proven that 2.5 times is sufficient for the least mental person....btw, we don't understand mental....nonetheless, here, take this pill dumbass, non-communicative less than us.

 

lol, good god.

 

Yes End, this is precisely the point. Science has disproved the assertions about the Creation in the Bible. And if the Bible is wrong about something as central as that, it is liable to be wrong about other things too.

 

You seem to be objecting to the fact that we don't talk metaphysically in the Lion's Den, but the Den is what it is, and I don't see why you are expecting it to be anything different.

 

If you want a metaphysical discussion End, start a Colloseum thread about something metaphysical. People will still ask you to be rational, which means explaining what the words you are using actually mean to you. Metaphysical discourse is still rational--it's not a free pass to spew nonsense or Bible verses with no explanation of what you think they mean.

 

Look at the Transcending Theism thread in the Spirituality Forum. The conversation is highly metaphysical, but we do define our terms and explain to each other what we mean. We don't insist that people just magically understand us.

 

You seem to see any attempt at reasoned debate as an attack. It's not. Do you prefer nonsense, which is the alternative?

[seven77]

 

So now there is a required number of people for support? The Spirituality forum doesn't get a lot traffic. But it's the quality, not the quantity that matters here. He had a place where there were 2 people willing to talk to him on his own level, and he thumbed his nose at it and decided instead to insult people on this thread.

 

This is not the fault of the people here at all.

How does this exclude the point I am trying to convey? Support seemed to work well in the Spiritually forum. Keith is a moderator that talks his language and you are well equipped to do that as well. Not so much for the rest of the mob here.

 

 

My issues with Foak did not stem from any of the threads here on ex-c. My issues with him started in chat last week. He and I had a spat, so to say. He called me some names and I took it for what it was.

 

I've said my peace as far as he is concerned. It is my personal opinion that all of us, regardless of our personal belief in a deity or deities, or lack thereof, should not give credence to those who wish to create derision, tension or anger within our community. Sure, we all get pissed off from time to time. That's ok. What's not ok is to devote several pages to discussing the bitter, antagonistic and anti-community actions of a single troll. That sort of thing is not productive, imho. It only serves to stoke a troll's ego. Who wants to provide fodder for an anonymous heretical troll? Not I, not I.

 

Is there a mob here on ex-c? Maybe some see it that way. I personally do not. There are some here who are strong atheists, others who are agnostic, apatheistic, pantheistic, or undecided. Some may follow other belief systems. Hell, there are even Christians and Catholics here. I'm a former Jew (more or less, taken with a huge grain of salt). Now, it is true that some ex-cs are ruthless with Christians and those who are still holding onto to belief in the deities and their holy books, etc. I try not to be too ruthless in my assessments of such things.

 

What all of this boils down to is that some community members, specifically End3, want the community to be more...shall we say, graceful, in the way that we handle believers 'round here. Could we stand to be a bit more gracious? Perhaps. However, I agree with Orbit that there are appropriate places for support and discussion of spirituality, faith, liturgy, holy texts, prayer, etc. The Spirituality forum (which I do not have permission to access) is a great place for such things. Also, there is a "Theological Issues" forum for the more scholarly types. The "Testimonies" forum is a good place to go to tell others more about yourself and your views. All three of those places were and are appropriate for the types of discussions that many trolls want to have. Yet, they come to the Den or go into Chat and expect that the community will be ok with their preaching, name-calling, and other poor decisions.

 

Sorry, but that ain't how it works. Either learn some netiquette, have some respect or as my dad says "Shape up or ship out." (Or alternatively, as I phrased this Foak in chat "I'm encouraging you to go seek community elsewhere. Don't let the door hit ya where the good Lard split ya.")

 

~seven77

[Guest end3]

No, End3.  I'm sorry but this has simply gone beyond the point of being disingenuous.  This has gotten to the point of you flat out lying. 

 

Foak was being understood and responded to in the Spirituality Forum.  You can't not know that by now; too many people have pointed it out to you on too many occasions. 

 

If he didn't like the response he got there, then it was just plain ignorant for him to come here.

 

Stop lying and accept the fact that we are not to blame for the actions of another.

No, I'm not lying, I hold y'all responsible for not hearing him. That's not a lie. Orbit and Antlerman seemed to do fine in the other forum. For the rest of it, it was status quo. And status quo is posted at the entrance to the Lion's Den. No denying it. And in my opinion, this method is woefully short sighted and rude and hypocritical and selfish and other crap for the sake of you healing from others abuse.

 

With that said, you think at some point you would move past this phase to a more mature phase of wisdom, that of knowing where someone is in their life and how to treat them.

 

Yes, I'm not lying when I say the blame lies with the resident science/fact maniacs.

[Guest end3]

 

 

I've already explained to you why we value facts and logic over religious faith, it's because it is a better framework as shown by the history of human development.  It's got nothing to do with the harm religion did. You can't choose science and xianity together because science has disproven the bible.

Does this not make my point? You CAN NOT do it any other way because science knows the facts and proves....and we say so, and your views don't count and if you are the least bit mental, I will give you 2.5 chances to get this message because it has been proven that 2.5 times is sufficient for the least mental person....btw, we don't understand mental....nonetheless, here, take this pill dumbass, non-communicative less than us.

 

lol, good god.

 

Yes End, this is precisely the point. Science has disproved the assertions about the Creation in the Bible. And if the Bible is wrong about something as central as that, it is liable to be wrong about other things too.

 

You seem to be objecting to the fact that we don't talk metaphysically in the Lion's Den, but the Den is what it is, and I don't see why you are expecting it to be anything different.

 

If you want a metaphysical discussion End, start a Colloseum thread about something metaphysical. People will still ask you to be rational, which means explaining what the words you are using actually mean to you. Metaphysical discourse is still rational--it's not a free pass to spew nonsense or Bible verses with no explanation of what you think they mean.

 

Look at the Transcending Theism thread in the Spirituality Forum. The conversation is highly metaphysical, but we do define our terms and explain to each other what we mean. We don't insist that people just magically understand us.

 

You seem to see any attempt at reasoned debate as an attack. It's not. Do you prefer nonsense, which is the alternative?

 

Most all of what you have said is fine with me. The guy came in an announced that he had problems. Not everyone saw that I am sure. I just happen to think this violates my understanding of the mechanics of a relationship per my belief system. It's ok that you and many disagree. I am a Christian that can tolerate the Lion's Den and the crap. Pretty simple really. I'm sorry that y'all can't let it go. Let it go already. Go back to the condescending, arrogant perspective and subsequent killing of all those that enter the den. Go get em...rrrrrahhherrrr.

[Guest end3]

Besides, End3, how much effort have you spent over the last two days tearing us all down for not understanding him compared to the amount of effort you've spent reaching out to foak yourself?  I'm betting you'd rather argue your points with us than actually practice them in real life.

Screw you. The one interaction I had with him was pleasant in an off topic thread. We never said anything else. Had we, I am confident I could have visited with him.

[Guest end3]

 

 

That happens a lot in the Den.

 

It's what we Lion's do.

 

Our playground, our rules.

Rationalization for being rude.

 

While you're at it captain science, marry rude with science....take your time.

 

 

It's been years since End3 said that I'm stupid because my brain has been damaged by my multiple sclerosis. I haven't posted anything directly at him since then because I don't want to waste time with such nasty, hurtful people.

 

And now he's scolding us for being rude ????????

 

Been noticing how nice you have been to the last three visitors...

[Guest end3]

And why don't we talk about the lion's den. Sacrificing humanity for your own healing. What??? Does this ring of Christianity???? OH FUCK NO END, WE DON'T DO anything LIKE Christianity.

 

In fucking credible.

 

 

How about something original from all you educated science fact people. Do something visonary-like. Maybe your own mechanism that heals people...

[Orbit]

And why don't we talk about the lion's den. Sacrificing humanity for your own healing. What??? Does this ring of Christianity???? OH FUCK NO END, WE DON'T DO anything LIKE Christianity.

 

In fucking credible.

People don't die here, End. They just lose an argument.

[TheRedneckProfessor]

 

Besides, End3, how much effort have you spent over the last two days tearing us all down for not understanding him compared to the amount of effort you've spent reaching out to foak yourself?  I'm betting you'd rather argue your points with us than actually practice them in real life.

Screw you. The one interaction I had with him was pleasant in an off topic thread. We never said anything else. Had we, I am confident I could have visited with him.

 

And there's the truth of it.  You've spent two days tearing us apart for not reaching out to him when you haven't reached out to him your own damn self, despite being convinced that he had problems and was hurting over it.  Way to practice what you preach, there.

 

Yep, I'm with BAA on this one hypo-fucking-critical.

[Guest end3]

 

 

Besides, End3, how much effort have you spent over the last two days tearing us all down for not understanding him compared to the amount of effort you've spent reaching out to foak yourself?  I'm betting you'd rather argue your points with us than actually practice them in real life.

Screw you. The one interaction I had with him was pleasant in an off topic thread. We never said anything else. Had we, I am confident I could have visited with him.

 

And there's the truth of it.  You've spent two days tearing us apart for not reaching out to him when you haven't reached out to him your own damn self, despite being convinced that he had problems and was hurting over it.  Way to practice what you preach, there.

 

Yep, I'm with BAA on this one hypo-fucking-critical.

 

He hasn't been back thanks to y'all...

[Guest end3]

 

And why don't we talk about the lion's den. Sacrificing humanity for your own healing. What??? Does this ring of Christianity???? OH FUCK NO END, WE DON'T DO anything LIKE Christianity.

 

In fucking credible.

People don't die here, End. They just lose an argument.

 

You don't know that... People commit suicide for lack of belonging.

[Orbit]

 

 

And why don't we talk about the lion's den. Sacrificing humanity for your own healing. What??? Does this ring of Christianity???? OH FUCK NO END, WE DON'T DO anything LIKE Christianity.

 

In fucking credible.

People don't die here, End. They just lose an argument.

 

You don't know that... People commit suicide for lack of belonging.

 

Oh please. Foak had a perfectly good interaction in the Spirituality forum, and he chose not to take advantage of it--he must not have needed to belong too badly. Plus I PMd him several times with advice and support and he was a dick. I don't know why you are constructing him like a noble martyr--that's your pure invention and it bears no resemblance to reality.

[TheRedneckProfessor]

 

 

 

Besides, End3, how much effort have you spent over the last two days tearing us all down for not understanding him compared to the amount of effort you've spent reaching out to foak yourself?  I'm betting you'd rather argue your points with us than actually practice them in real life.

Screw you. The one interaction I had with him was pleasant in an off topic thread. We never said anything else. Had we, I am confident I could have visited with him.

 

And there's the truth of it.  You've spent two days tearing us apart for not reaching out to him when you haven't reached out to him your own damn self, despite being convinced that he had problems and was hurting over it.  Way to practice what you preach, there.

 

Yep, I'm with BAA on this one hypo-fucking-critical.

 

He hasn't been back thanks to y'all...

 

Patently untrue.  You have no idea why he hasn't been back.  

 

It could be that he's waiting on some servant of god to reach out to him.  Go on, End3, be the lord's instrument.  Show foak the awesome power of grace and relationships.

[Orbit]

 

 

 

 

Besides, End3, how much effort have you spent over the last two days tearing us all down for not understanding him compared to the amount of effort you've spent reaching out to foak yourself?  I'm betting you'd rather argue your points with us than actually practice them in real life.

Screw you. The one interaction I had with him was pleasant in an off topic thread. We never said anything else. Had we, I am confident I could have visited with him.

 

And there's the truth of it.  You've spent two days tearing us apart for not reaching out to him when you haven't reached out to him your own damn self, despite being convinced that he had problems and was hurting over it.  Way to practice what you preach, there.

 

Yep, I'm with BAA on this one hypo-fucking-critical.

 

He hasn't been back thanks to y'all...

 

Patently untrue.  You have no idea why he hasn't been back.  

 

It could be that he's waiting on some servant of god to reach out to him.  Go on, End3, be the lord's instrument.  Show foak the awesome power of grace and relationships.

 

Yeah, how come the evil atheist (me) PMd him several times, and you didn't, End?

[Guest end3]

 

 

 

 

 

Besides, End3, how much effort have you spent over the last two days tearing us all down for not understanding him compared to the amount of effort you've spent reaching out to foak yourself?  I'm betting you'd rather argue your points with us than actually practice them in real life.

Screw you. The one interaction I had with him was pleasant in an off topic thread. We never said anything else. Had we, I am confident I could have visited with him.

 

And there's the truth of it.  You've spent two days tearing us apart for not reaching out to him when you haven't reached out to him your own damn self, despite being convinced that he had problems and was hurting over it.  Way to practice what you preach, there.

 

Yep, I'm with BAA on this one hypo-fucking-critical.

 

He hasn't been back thanks to y'all...

 

Patently untrue.  You have no idea why he hasn't been back.  

 

It could be that he's waiting on some servant of god to reach out to him.  Go on, End3, be the lord's instrument.  Show foak the awesome power of grace and relationships.

 

Yeah, how come the evil atheist (me) PMd him several times, and you didn't, End?

 

Let me guess, you were in a conversation with him?????? And I wasn't?????

[Guest end3]

Patently untrue.  You have no idea why he hasn't been back.  

 

It could be that he's waiting on some servant of god to reach out to him.  Go on, End3, be the lord's instrument.  Show foak the awesome power of grace and relationships.

Will do...

[mymistake]