Grace Is The Knowledge Of Inseparability, And Of Us.

[midniterider]

What was the point of all this again?

 

As it says in the bible, "Grace is the knowledge of inseparability and of us." :-)

[Guest end3]

 

Good God Prof. What I am trying to say is if I have a subjective belief in whatever, it's probably objectively derived. Doesn't matter the belief.

 

Are there some facts from which you objectively derived your belief in Jesus?

 

I am sure there are....facts acting on my body/mind.

[bornagainathiest]

 

 

BAA, thanks, I already know my motivation and why I am triggered to action. If I wanted you to know, I would have told you. Regardless, it's not right to use intellect to hurt people. And I understand that people need time to recover, but I feel sure they will come around to a point of stopping. Most folks, not all. It takes time.

As I said before, End3, there was nothing in BAA's post that was intended to hurt you.  His staggering intellect was not a weapon aimed at you; it was aimed at the conclusion he wanted you and others to be able to draw.

 

Yes, and had I told him my motivation(s), there would be a number of people here use it as a means to hurt.

 

 

Nobody's forcing you to come here, End.

The Den IS a place where Christians DO get hurt.  If you don't want to get hurt - then quit the Den.. It's that simple.

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.

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Now, talking of simplicity, what I've asked you isn't rocket science.  

It's very simple indeed.  This question isn't difficult, so please answer it truthfully.  If you're worried about getting hurt, then don't answer the question - just quit the Den.  Please don't try to stay in the Den and avoid answering the question.  Doing that will make us doubt your honesty and will probably lead you to being hurt.

Thank you.

.

.

.

Please tell us why objectivity is impossible for you in this forum, but easy for you outside of it?

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.

.

Thanks,

 

BAA.

[Guest end3]

What was the point of all this again?

Pass the time of day with people that think rather than rednecks?

[Guest end3]

 

 

 

BAA, thanks, I already know my motivation and why I am triggered to action. If I wanted you to know, I would have told you. Regardless, it's not right to use intellect to hurt people. And I understand that people need time to recover, but I feel sure they will come around to a point of stopping. Most folks, not all. It takes time.

As I said before, End3, there was nothing in BAA's post that was intended to hurt you.  His staggering intellect was not a weapon aimed at you; it was aimed at the conclusion he wanted you and others to be able to draw.

 

Yes, and had I told him my motivation(s), there would be a number of people here use it as a means to hurt.

 

 

Nobody's forcing you to come here, End.

The Den IS a place where Christians DO get hurt.  If you don't want to get hurt - then quit the Den.. It's that simple.

.

.

.

Now, talking of simplicity, what I've asked you isn't rocket science.  

It's very simple indeed.  This question isn't difficult, so please answer it truthfully.  If you're worried about getting hurt, then don't answer the question - just quit the Den.  Please don't try to stay in the Den and avoid answering the question.  Doing that will make us doubt your honesty and will probably lead you to being hurt.

Thank you.

.

.

.

Please tell us why objectivity is impossible for you in this forum, but easy for you outside of it?

.

.

.

Thanks,

 

BAA.

 

Because people use it to hurt. Prof and I are in the process of having a objective discussion. His intent is probably not to use it against me, but to discuss. You are welcome to join us.

[Orbit]

 

 

 

 

BAA, thanks, I already know my motivation and why I am triggered to action. If I wanted you to know, I would have told you. Regardless, it's not right to use intellect to hurt people. And I understand that people need time to recover, but I feel sure they will come around to a point of stopping. Most folks, not all. It takes time.

As I said before, End3, there was nothing in BAA's post that was intended to hurt you.  His staggering intellect was not a weapon aimed at you; it was aimed at the conclusion he wanted you and others to be able to draw.

 

Yes, and had I told him my motivation(s), there would be a number of people here use it as a means to hurt.

 

 

Nobody's forcing you to come here, End.

The Den IS a place where Christians DO get hurt.  If you don't want to get hurt - then quit the Den.. It's that simple.

.

.

.

Now, talking of simplicity, what I've asked you isn't rocket science.  

It's very simple indeed.  This question isn't difficult, so please answer it truthfully.  If you're worried about getting hurt, then don't answer the question - just quit the Den.  Please don't try to stay in the Den and avoid answering the question.  Doing that will make us doubt your honesty and will probably lead you to being hurt.

Thank you.

.

.

.

Please tell us why objectivity is impossible for you in this forum, but easy for you outside of it?

.

.

.

Thanks,

 

BAA.

 

Because people use it to hurt. Prof and I are in the process of having a objective discussion. His intent is probably not to use it against me, but to discuss. You are welcome to join us.

 

Arguing a point is not hurting you, it's arguing a point. It's not meant to be personal.

[bornagainathiest]

 

Because people use it to hurt. Prof and I are in the process of having a objective discussion. His intent is probably not to use it against me, but to discuss. You are welcome to join us.

 

 

But I don't need to join you two, End.

 

I'm in this discussion too. I have been since post # 13.  

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The problem between us right now is that you want me to take your statement, 'Because people use it to hurt" on faith.  

I'm sorry, but I just can't do that.  That's not because I wish to hurt you.  No.  It's because I want to know the truth.  

 

But you seem to be painting me as the bad guy here.

That by asking for the truth, I'm somehow putting you in harm's way.  That's not so!  Nobody is making you stay in the Den - so you are putting yourself in harm's way by being here.

 

So please decide what's more important to you.

Dealing with us honestly and truthfully... or quitting the Den to avoid getting hurt.

 

If it's the former, then please truthfully answer the question that was put to you.

If it's the latter, then please say your 'goodbyes'.

 

Over to you.

 

Thanks,

 

BAA.

[bornagainathiest]

Look End,

 

To demonstrate that I'm not out to hurt you or to expose you to harm, let me offer you a lifeline.

 

Taking it won't be very palatable, but doing so will be better (in the long run) than holding out.

 

If you like, I'll even explain what it is before you commit yourself in any way, ok?

 

Thanks,

 

BAA. 

[midniterider]

Good God Prof. What I am trying to say is if I have a subjective belief in whatever, it's probably objectively derived. Doesn't matter the belief.

 

 

I used to believe in Santa. It was a subjective belief but it had no objective, fact based foundation. It was just cultural indoctrination.

[TheRedneckProfessor]

 

 

 

That's not an explanation; that's a dodge.

Ok, probably so. We would assume that all complex systems (pardon my lack of the correct terminology), behave by the rules of the less complex. Would you agree or disagree. That emergent properties really should be predictable if we had the computational capability.

 

Still not sure what this has to do with objectively believing in ancient myths without a shred of evidence as to their validity.  You're not trying to change the subject, are you?

 

Good God Prof. What I am trying to say is if I have a subjective belief in whatever, it's probably objectively derived. Doesn't matter the belief.

 

Good Thor End.  What I am trying to say is how can subjectively held beliefs be believed objectively?

[Guest end3]

Look End,

 

To demonstrate that I'm not out to hurt you or to expose you to harm, let me offer you a lifeline.

 

Taking it won't be very palatable, but doing so will be better (in the long run) than holding out.

 

If you like, I'll even explain what it is before you commit yourself in any way, ok?

 

Thanks,

 

BAA.

My offer is to join us in a discussion where I will talk objectively.

[TheRedneckProfessor]

Ok Prof.

 

So if I am unique, and others are unique, then each human system is a dynamic "singularity" via the forces on that system.

 

now what?

Now you're dangerously close to admitting that christianity isn't The Truth^TM because it cannot be applied universally to each unique dynamic singularity.  Keep heading in this direction and you may become one of us.

[TheRedneckProfessor]

 

What was the point of all this again?

Pass the time of day with people that think rather than rednecks?

 

Talk about using your intellect to hurt others.  Did you not think I would take exception to this?

[Guest end3]

 

 

 

 

That's not an explanation; that's a dodge.

Ok, probably so. We would assume that all complex systems (pardon my lack of the correct terminology), behave by the rules of the less complex. Would you agree or disagree. That emergent properties really should be predictable if we had the computational capability.

 

Still not sure what this has to do with objectively believing in ancient myths without a shred of evidence as to their validity.  You're not trying to change the subject, are you?

 

Good God Prof. What I am trying to say is if I have a subjective belief in whatever, it's probably objectively derived. Doesn't matter the belief.

 

Good Thor End.  What I am trying to say is how can subjectively held beliefs be believed objectively?

 

I would think it's a physiological response. Religion is probably geared to that stimuli.

[Guest end3]

 

Ok Prof.

 

So if I am unique, and others are unique, then each human system is a dynamic "singularity" via the forces on that system.

 

now what?

Now you're dangerously close to admitting that christianity isn't The Truth^TM because it cannot be applied universally to each unique dynamic singularity.  Keep heading in this direction and you may become one of us.

 

I'm sacrificing for the relationship.....don't get used to it.

[Guest end3]

 

 

What was the point of all this again?

Pass the time of day with people that think rather than rednecks?

 

Talk about using your intellect to hurt others.  Did you not think I would take exception to this?

 

You're exceptional in a good way.

[TheRedneckProfessor]

 

 

 

 

 

That's not an explanation; that's a dodge.

Ok, probably so. We would assume that all complex systems (pardon my lack of the correct terminology), behave by the rules of the less complex. Would you agree or disagree. That emergent properties really should be predictable if we had the computational capability.

 

Still not sure what this has to do with objectively believing in ancient myths without a shred of evidence as to their validity.  You're not trying to change the subject, are you?

 

Good God Prof. What I am trying to say is if I have a subjective belief in whatever, it's probably objectively derived. Doesn't matter the belief.

 

Good Thor End.  What I am trying to say is how can subjectively held beliefs be believed objectively?

 

I would think it's a physiological response. Religion is probably geared to that stimuli.

 

Responding to a stimulus is not the same as objectively examining a subject.

[bornagainathiest]

 

Look End,

 

To demonstrate that I'm not out to hurt you or to expose you to harm, let me offer you a lifeline.

 

Taking it won't be very palatable, but doing so will be better (in the long run) than holding out.

 

If you like, I'll even explain what it is before you commit yourself in any way, ok?

 

Thanks,

 

BAA.

My offer is to join us in a discussion where I will talk objectively.

 

 

Well those few words represent a 180 degree change from you, End!

 

You will talk objectively?

 

I thought that was impossible for you.  

.

.

.

So in the last few minutes you've just acquired the ability to talk objectively with us?

 

Or, you had this ability all along, but you chose to tell us that it was impossible for you to be objective?

.

.

.

Isn't the second option... LYING to us?

 

Please explain, End.  I'm all ears.

[TheRedneckProfessor]

 

 

Ok Prof.

 

So if I am unique, and others are unique, then each human system is a dynamic "singularity" via the forces on that system.

 

now what?

Now you're dangerously close to admitting that christianity isn't The Truth^TM because it cannot be applied universally to each unique dynamic singularity.  Keep heading in this direction and you may become one of us.

 

I'm sacrificing for the relationship.....don't get used to it.

 

Hmm.... Sacrificing the claim of christianity's universal truth in order to converse with a devout atheist.  I sense a lulling into false security.

[bornagainathiest]

I'm still offering you that lifeline, End.

.

.

.

You can still take it if you want - rather than keep on digging.

 

BAA.

[Guest end3]

Responding to a stimulus is not the same as objectively examining a subject.

If you know the mechanism(s) it is.

[Guest end3]

 

 

 

Ok Prof.

 

So if I am unique, and others are unique, then each human system is a dynamic "singularity" via the forces on that system.

 

now what?

Now you're dangerously close to admitting that christianity isn't The Truth^TM because it cannot be applied universally to each unique dynamic singularity.  Keep heading in this direction and you may become one of us.

 

 

 

I'm sacrificing for the relationship.....don't get used to it.

 

Hmm.... Sacrificing the claim of christianity's universal truth in order to converse with a devout atheist.  I sense a lulling into false security.

 

It doesn't really matter what "ammunition" I give you, we don't understand Cause. What happens in our reality is just that.

[Guest end3]

 

 

Look End,

 

To demonstrate that I'm not out to hurt you or to expose you to harm, let me offer you a lifeline.

 

Taking it won't be very palatable, but doing so will be better (in the long run) than holding out.

 

If you like, I'll even explain what it is before you commit yourself in any way, ok?

 

Thanks,

 

BAA.

My offer is to join us in a discussion where I will talk objectively.

 

 

Well those few words represent a 180 degree change from you, End!

 

You will talk objectively?

 

I thought that was impossible for you.  

.

.

.

So in the last few minutes you've just acquired the ability to talk objectively with us?

 

Or, you had this ability all along, but you chose to tell us that it was impossible for you to be objective?

.

.

.

Isn't the second option... LYING to us?

 

Please explain, End.  I'm all ears.

 

It doesn't compromise my beliefs BAA. Like I said to the Prof., we don't understand Cause. Me discussing reality relative to Cause is like talking about the mindset of ants relative to outer space.

 

BTW, YOU were the one who labeled me as unable to discuss in a certain manner.

[TheRedneckProfessor]

 

If you know the mechanism(s) it is.

 

 

 

 we don't understand Cause. What happens in our reality is just that.

 

I think you just contradicted your first point with your second.  If you don't know the cause of the stimulus, then you can't objectively approach it.

[Guest end3]

 

If you know the mechanism(s) it is.

 

 

we don't understand Cause. What happens in our reality is just that.

I think you just contradicted your first point with your second.  If you don't know the cause of the stimulus, then you can't objectively approach it.

 

Right, that's why I put the statement out earlier and then said "now what" Prof. I was soliciting thoughts.