Baptists

[Shinzon]

One word rebuttal time.

Hell. Or rather two words, fiery hell.

[TheRedneckProfessor]

"This is the section of the board where Christian opinions, arguments, sermons and so on will be more-or-less tolerated."

That statement is why The Lion's Den is here and I am thankful the administrators

have allowed a place where Christians can express themselves.

 

This is what I am doing.

 

 

Can we get back to the topic?

 

Can a member here agree or disagree with my first reason for being a Baptist?

 

 

I have to agree with mymistake, TinPony.  What's the point of this futile exercise.  Even for those of us willing to take the bait, it's still only going to end with "threatening eternal conscious torment in hell is both using force and coercion; therefore the baptists are wrong."  You've got to realize this; you've been here long enough.

Pay attention, TinPony; it makes communication easier.

[pratt]

this kind of baptist?

 

 

Members of the infamous right-wing Christian hate group Westboro Baptist Church are planning to picket outside Davis' offices on Monday, reports Fox 2 Now St. Louis. According to a statement issued by the church, the group is targeting Davis because they believe she is a hypocrite about marriage, based on her multiple divorces.

"That man that Kim Davis is living with, and calling her husband, IS NOT!" the church wrote in a press release issued to the news station. "Her husband is Dwain Wallace, who she married when she was 18-years-old. It does not matter how many years you pile on! It was adultery at the beginning, adultery in the middle and it is indeed adultery today!"

On Twitter, the group said Davis' divorces and subsequent remarriages are just as bad as "fag marriage."

[bornagainathiest]

"This is the section of the board where Christian opinions, arguments, sermons and so on will be more-or-less tolerated."

That statement is why The Lion's Den is here and I am thankful the administrators

have allowed a place where Christians can express themselves.

 

This is what I am doing.

 

 

Can we get back to the topic?

 

Can a member here agree or disagree with my first reason for being a Baptist?

 

Tell the truth now, Ironhorse.

 

You never decided to become a Baptist on the basis of a skeptical appraisal of their distinctive beliefs, did you?

 

What really happened was that when you were too young to know any better, you unquestioningly absorbed and adopted the Baptist beliefs of your parents.

 

Care to deny this?

[LongWayAround]

As a Christian I believe that the distinctive beliefs of the Baptist denomination follow closely the teachings of the New Testament scriptures. This is why I am a member of a local Baptist church.

 

I like how the southern baptist split over the question of slavery.  The north opposed slavery and the southern baptists supported it.  If you are going to closely follow the teachings of the bible, it seems like there is nothing wrong with owning some people to provide some free labor on the plantation.

[Geezer]

Iron Horse, the Church of Christ has Ministers, Evangelist, & Preachers in the pulpit. The C of c interprets the Bible as literally as possible. Pastors are the same thing as an Elder. Pastors & Elders are not Gospel preachers & preachers are not Pastors.

 

Elder's (more than 1 is required) are the supreme leaders of their congregations & possess virtually unlimited power. The c of c teaches & believes they are the only true church created by Christ on the day of Pentecost. If you are not a member in good standing in the c of c then you are not saved.

 

Sorry Iron Horse, but Baptist ain't real Christians, according to the c of c. If the c of ic is correct God doesn't have a clue who you are, because your name isn't in the book of life. Do not dispair, there is hope for you. Renounce the erring Baptists, Repent of you sin for wearing the name Baptist & be baptized for the remission of your sins as per Acts 2:38 & you shall be saved. That assumes, of course, that you never sin again because you lose your soul every time you sin, to fix that problem you have to repent, promise God you won't ever do that nasty sin again, & beg God for forgiveness.

 

Yep following the Bible as literally as possible sounds like the way to go, doesn't it?

[midniterider]

 1. Baptists contend that there can be no forced coercion in matters of religious faith or non-faith. God Himself does not force people. Religion is purely voluntary. Baptists support the freedom of the individual conscience to choose to worship God or not worship.

 

Agree or disagree?

 

Sounds like a good tenet. I like that God doesnt force or coerce (threat of Hell) one to believe. This makes it very easy to decline to be a Baptist. I decline.

[FlowerDemon]

I used to go to a baptist church and I couldn't see how they were any different than a non denominational church. They preached about the same type of stuff. I don't understand how a baptist Christian and a non denominational Christian are any different (even though technically, non denominational Christianity is a denomination of Christianity, if you think about it)

[Jeff]

Glad you're happy but I don't really care about why you like one particular brand of imagination game.

Enjoy

[midniterider]

One word rebuttal time.

Hell. Or rather two words, fiery hell.

 

Are you saying that Baptists believe in coercing people to believe their myth and part with their cash by threatening them with HELL if they don't believe? Say it aint so.

[midniterider]

Well, I looked it up...quite disturbing:

 

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/06/16/baptist-belief-in-hell_n_877815.html

 

or http://www.baptistbasics.org/baptists/b003.php(number VIII Salvation Through Grace)

 

There is indeed coercion in the Baptist denomination in the form of a fear of Hell. Hell is the doctrine used to keep people from quitting the church. It makes them afraid to stop believing in Jesus.

 

So this is bullshit: "Baptists contend that there can be no forced coercion in matters of religious faith or non-faith. God Himself does not force people. Religion is purely voluntary."

 

If faith is voluntary, IH, why don't you take 24 hours off? Become an agnostic for a a day. Tell the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit that you are not worshiping them for a day. There should be no eternal repercussions since religion is purely voluntary, right? God won't mind, will he? (Flames lick at IH's feet ) LoL. Or are you afraid of God's wrath ? No need to answer that question out loud.

 

You are afraid to even entertain the thought of not believing in Jesus, I'd wager.

[florduh]

Baptist Schmaptist. If born into a Catholic family, you learn all the ways Catholicism is "right." If your roommate, work buddy or romantic interest drags you to their church long enough you will discover how that particular flavor of religion is juuuusssst right! Perhaps you felt the need for a church, in this country that means Christian church, and you tried out a few and settled on the one that most closely reflects you what you already think. Maybe you feel unnatural guilt and remorse and seek out a denomination that verifies you are a miserable worm deserving of Hell.

 

NOBODY sits down with a clean slate and does research to see if any gods really exist, if one of them needs to be worshiped, whether the Baptists or Mormons got it right, or any such nonsense. Nobody free of indoctrination spontaneously searches for evidence to see if any of the many "holy" texts are actually valid. Superstitions, religions and supernatural beliefs in general are passed on from one person to another like a virus. You must be taught what to believe about "spiritual" subjects because there is no evidence for any of it. In America you're likely to become convinced that both the Bible and one version of Christianity are true, but in Saudi Arabia you would more likely be led to one of the "true" versions of Islam and belief in the validity of the Koran. Your family/society dictates what you might even consider as possible. 

 

You were taught one of the constructs of an invisible and undetectable realm by one of the many schools that calls itself Baptist. Having that set of beliefs it then becomes necessary to validate them.

[Guest Furball]

I always found the puritans to be closest to the new testament teachings, followed by the hard core evangelists of today. -peace

[Guest Furball]

 

 

NOBODY sits down with a clean slate and does research to see if any gods really exist, if one of them needs to be worshiped, whether the Baptists or Mormons got it right, or any such nonsense. Nobody free of indoctrination spontaneously searches for evidence to see if any of the many "holy" texts are actually valid. 

 

That was one of the most humiliating things for me about deconverting. The fact that I didn't check the evidence for christianity until 13 years after converting. To call myself a moron would be a compliment. 

 

Even before I converted, it was just passed down to me through my mother that believing in jesus and the christian god were standard american beliefs. 

[midniterider]

I would agree though that God does not force people to go to church. Since he doesn't really exist. The church is simply a business run by a minister. The minister stays in business by spreading Fear of Hell among the members. The members spread Fear of Hell amongst each other. This is how the church business stays in business. The deluded members keep putting money in the collection plate to pay for the minister's motorhome, boat, horses ,house, Lexus, etc, because they are afraid not to.

 

God is never there.

[bornagainathiest]

Well, I looked it up...quite disturbing:

 

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/06/16/baptist-belief-in-hell_n_877815.html

 

or http://www.baptistbasics.org/baptists/b003.php(number VIII Salvation Through Grace)

 

There is indeed coercion in the Baptist denomination in the form of a fear of Hell. Hell is the doctrine used to keep people from quitting the church. It makes them afraid to stop believing in Jesus.

 

So this is bullshit: "Baptists contend that there can be no forced coercion in matters of religious faith or non-faith. God Himself does not force people. Religion is purely voluntary."

 

If faith is voluntary, IH, why don't you take 24 hours off? Become an agnostic for a a day. Tell the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit that you are not worshiping them for a day. There should be no eternal repercussions since religion is purely voluntary, right? God won't mind, will he? (Flames lick at IH's feet ) LoL. Or are you afraid of God's wrath ? No need to answer that question out loud.

 

You are afraid to even entertain the thought of not believing in Jesus, I'd wager.

 

Yes, please do as the rider suggests, Ironhorse.

 

If you become an agnostic for a day, during that 24 hour period you can take a good, hard skeptical look at your Baptist faith and question it properly... for the first time in your life!

[Astreja]

• Baptists contend that there can be no forced coercion in matters of religious faith or non-faith.
• Baptists deliberately violate the concept of no coercion by using the concept of hell.
• Therefore, Baptists who use hell as a proselytizing tactic are hypocritical, or lying about the "no coercion" principle, or haven't gotten the memo about what "no coercion" actually means.

[Guest Furball]

Ironhorse, i was wondering, as a baptist do you read the kjv? I am just asking because when i as a christian i was told that baptists were strict kjv only believers. Just curious is all. Thank you.

[Jeff]

Assuming yes, have you actually read Ehrman and heard the history of how that version came to be?

 

You really should. Ehrman loves the bible and approaches it honestly in his work.

[ironhorse]

"Ironhorse, i was wondering, as a baptist do you read the kjv? I am just asking because when i as a christian i was told that baptists were strict kjv only believers. Just curious is all. Thank you."

~ Alien

 

No, I'm not a KJV only proponent. I have been in a few heated discussions with those who are. It's fine with me if that is the only version they read. I just think they are limiting themselves and are wrong in their accusations of other good translations.

 

Some random KJV notes"

 

-The 1611 KJV came as English was moving into the early Modern English period.
Example:

“¶ For God so loued þe world, that he gaue his only begotten Sonne: that whosoeuer beleeueth in him, should not perish, but haue euerlasting life.” John 3:16

 

-The KJV was printed during the exploration period of history and helped to spread the English language.

 

-It was written to be read our loud. This is one reason it still one of the most beautiful translations to hear in the English language.

 

-The KJV Bible we use today is actually based primarily on the major revision completed in 1769 – 158 years after the first.

 

 

-In their "Letter to the Reader" from the translators, the translators stated they were imperfect men doing the best they could with the manuscripts at hand. They said better translators, would no doubt, be done in the future. During the 19th century Bible publishers omitted  this letter.

 

-The early editions of the KJV contained the apocryphal books.

 

I still occasionally read the KJV, but The Message is the one I use the most.  The New Testament was first written in common Greek. It was widely known and was the street language of the people. This was Eugene Peterson’s goal in writing The Message.  It is a very understandable version and gets right to the point.

 

I also like the New International Version.

 

BibleGateway has dozens of translations to read online.

[Tsathoggua]

Iron Horse, the Church of Christ has Ministers, Evangelist, & Preachers in the pulpit. The C of c interprets the Bible as literally as possible. Pastors are the same thing as an Elder. Pastors & Elders are not Gospel preachers & preachers are not Pastors.

 

Elder's (more than 1 is required) are the supreme leaders of their congregations & possess virtually unlimited power. The c of c teaches & believes they are the only true church created by Christ on the day of Pentecost. If you are not a member in good standing in the c of c then you are not saved.

 

Sorry Iron Horse, but Baptist ain't real Christians, according to the c of c. If the c of ic is correct God doesn't have a clue who you are, because your name isn't in the book of life. Do not dispair, there is hope for you. Renounce the erring Baptists, Repent of you sin for wearing the name Baptist & be baptized for the remission of your sins as per Acts 2:38 & you shall be saved. That assumes, of course, that you never sin again because you lose your soul every time you sin, to fix that problem you have to repent, promise God you won't ever do that nasty sin again, & beg God for forgiveness.

 

Yep following the Bible as literally as possible sounds like the way to go, doesn't it?

 

Amen! Preach it, Brother!

 

Er, uh, I mean.. thanks for providing a nice, concise description of the beliefs and attitudes of the One True Church. I was once a member, myself! HA!

[Guest Furball]

"Ironhorse, i was wondering, as a baptist do you read the kjv? I am just asking because when i as a christian i was told that baptists were strict kjv only believers. Just curious is all. Thank you."

~ Alien

 

No, I'm not a KJV only proponent. I have been in a few heated discussions with those who are. It's fine with me if that is the only version they read. I just think they are limiting themselves and are wrong in their accusations of other good translations.

 

Some random KJV notes"

 

-The 1611 KJV came as English was moving into the early Modern English period.

Example:

“¶ For God so loued þe world, that he gaue his only begotten Sonne: that whosoeuer beleeueth in him, should not perish, but haue euerlasting life.” John 3:16

 

-The KJV was printed during the exploration period of history and helped to spread the English language.

 

-It was written to be read our loud. This is one reason it still one of the most beautiful translations to hear in the English language.

 

-The KJV Bible we use today is actually based primarily on the major revision completed in 1769 – 158 years after the first.

 

 

-In their "Letter to the Reader" from the translators, the translators stated they were imperfect men doing the best they could with the manuscripts at hand. They said better translators, would no doubt, be done in the future. During the 19th century Bible publishers omitted  this letter.

 

-The early editions of the KJV contained the apocryphal books.

 

I still occasionally read the KJV, but The Message is the one I use the most.  The New Testament was first written in common Greek. It was widely known and was the street language of the people. This was Eugene Peterson’s goal in writing The Message.  It is a very understandable version and gets right to the point.

 

I also like the New International Version.

 

BibleGateway has dozens of translations to read online.

Thank you for answering my question and for giving me some info. I appreciate it. -scott

[bornagainathiest]

Ironhorse,

 

Having honored Alien's request today, would you please now honor my earlier request, which has two questions...?

 

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

"Tell the truth now, Ironhorse."

 

"You never decided to become a Baptist on the basis of a skeptical appraisal of their distinctive beliefs, did you..?"

 

"What really happened was that when you were too young to know any better, you unquestioningly absorbed and adopted the Baptist beliefs of your parents." 

 

"Care to deny this..?"

 

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

Thank you in advance for honoring my request.

 

I await your prompt response.

 

BAA.

[ironhorse]

Tell the truth now, Ironhorse."

"You never decided to become a Baptist on the basis of a skeptical appraisal of their distinctive beliefs, did you..?"

"What really happened was that when you were too young to know any better, you unquestioningly absorbed and adopted the Baptist beliefs of your parents."

"Care to deny this..?"

 

~bornagainathiest

 

 

I am a Baptist by choice not by family decree or indoctrination. I have told my story here several times.

 

My father was a Baptist minister who allowed me as a child, beginning around the age of ten, open access to any book in his library. Both my parents were avid readers and had a good size library of books on many topics. Many books: world religions, psychology,history, atheism, science, evolution. I don't claim to be able to remember everything I read, but I read a lot. I still do.

 

I am thankful I had parents that did encourage me to ask questions, read, and think for myself. 

 

That is the truth.

[bdp]

lord frith, another insufferable 'theist,' involved in a mutual mastubation fest with the horse...why was this thread even allowed to 'bloom' as it were?

 

fschidt, welcome to the 'ignore' button...