Mythra Posted November 4, 2015 Share Posted November 4, 2015 I can remember when I was a religionist and someone asked me what I thought about something. I had to look up the verse to tell them the answer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mymistake Posted November 4, 2015 Share Posted November 4, 2015 I can remember when I was a religionist and someone asked me what I thought about something. I had to look up the verse to tell them the answer. I will get right back to you on that. Let me look it up in my book to see what I think. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bornagainathiest Posted November 4, 2015 Share Posted November 4, 2015 Ironhorse, Since you have spent years skeptically appraising your faith, I'm eagerly looking forward to seeing you post a worked example of this activity in this thread. Thanks, BAA. Bumped for Ironhorse to show Mythra and MyMistake his 'years' of skeptical appraisal of his faith! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mymistake Posted November 4, 2015 Share Posted November 4, 2015 Ironhorse, Since you have spent years skeptically appraising your faith, I'm eagerly looking forward to seeing you post a worked example of this activity in this thread. Thanks, BAA. Bumped for Ironhorse to show Mythra and MyMistake his 'years' of skeptical appraisal of his faith! I'm not expecting any change. It's kind of like the thread you have going with end3. This is simply an exercise in demonstrating how deep willful ignorance can go. Fundamentalists Christians refuse to see. You can't force them to see. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bornagainathiest Posted November 4, 2015 Share Posted November 4, 2015 Ironhorse, Since you have spent years skeptically appraising your faith, I'm eagerly looking forward to seeing you post a worked example of this activity in this thread. Thanks, BAA. Bumped for Ironhorse to show Mythra and MyMistake his 'years' of skeptical appraisal of his faith! I'm not expecting any change. It's kind of like the thread you have going with end3. This is simply an exercise in demonstrating how deep willful ignorance can go. Fundamentalists Christians refuse to see. You can't force them to see. Agree, MM. StillLooking and myself can drag the unwilling End3 to the waters of truth but neither of us can make him drink. But there is one more thing I'm willing to do and to keep on doing ...forever, if need be. I can keep on demonstrating how willfully ignorant he's choosing to be - for the on-going benefit of the lurkers and the newbies. It's a win-win scenario. If he yields and sees the truth, everyone wins. If he never yields, we win again, over and over again... forever. Freshly-arrived lurkers and newbies get to see him display the very worst kind of stubborn, stiff-necked, anti-rational, pro-ignorance, defiant-unto-death Christianity on a daily basis. He couldn't help us any better if he tried! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mythra Posted November 5, 2015 Share Posted November 5, 2015 So, ironhorse - I was wondering what you think about the second coming. Does Jesus arrive in the clouds before or after all the stars fall from the sky like figs falling from a tree when the wind blows? I know what the bible says, just wondering what your opinion was? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mythra Posted November 5, 2015 Share Posted November 5, 2015 One other dilemma I have. Why did an omniscient God think that a bat was a bird? Perhaps I took it out of context. I do that a lot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mythra Posted November 5, 2015 Share Posted November 5, 2015 You know, in Ironhorse's defense - it's not a fair fight. We've been in his shoes. We know the gig. There's nothing he can tell us about what he believes that we don't already know - and, more importantly - have already experienced. He doesn't know our gig. And he doesn't know the things most of us have learned since deconverting. So, in a way I understand if he wants to avoid getting into it with us. Ironhorse: just one thing to say to you. In your mind, you have a concept of who and what Jesus is. I know this. But what Jesus really is is not what you think. If you have the courage to do it, read something your dad or your pastor would not approve of concerning Jesus and the development of the new testament. Even if it's just online. If your faith can't hold up under honest inquiry, then it's not worth keeping. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ironhorse Posted November 9, 2015 Author Share Posted November 9, 2015 So, ironhorse - I was a baptist too for a time. One of the things that was preached there: the Bible is a perfect book. Not a single contradiction or mistake. Not a single failed prophecy. That's how we can know it was authored by God. So I just have one question for you. Is there a single thing in the bible that you have read, and you know for sure, (or at least your ability to reason tells you) that it never happened? The Bible I will admit, that from our point of view it might seem like messy way to of getting his message to us. God chose a particular people, used them to tell His story and used their writers to write the story and message Why not just drop gold tablets from the sky? It might seem like a "messy way" to us, but methinks it will one day be viewed as brilliant. I get the main message of the scriptures: Jesus but there are other things in the scriptures I do not understand. There are many mysterious and puzzling verses. One reason, I think, it is so much fun to read and study. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sdelsolray Posted November 9, 2015 Share Posted November 9, 2015 Once again, Tin Pony doesn't answer a simple "yes or no" question, that single question being, "Is there a single thing in the bible that you have read, and you know for sure, (or at least your ability to reason tells you) that it never happened?" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mymistake Posted November 9, 2015 Share Posted November 9, 2015 I will admit, that from our point of view it might seem like messy way to of getting his message to us. God chose a particular people, used them to tell His story and used their writers to write the story and message Why not just drop gold tablets from the sky? God did! It is called the Book of Mormon and it is just as valid as the New Testament, the Old Testament and the Koran. If God was real and really cared about us/wanted us to believe he was real, then the best way would be fore God to visit everybody. An all powerful God could do that. There are many things in the scriptures I do not understand. There are many mysterious and puzzling verses. The important thing is that you choose to ignore facts and walk by faith. Don't let anybody take your superstition away from you. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mythra Posted November 9, 2015 Share Posted November 9, 2015 Okay - maybe a multiple choice question then for ironhorse, since the best ironhorse can say is "there are many mysterious and puzzling verses". From Joshua Chapter 10: The sun stopped in the middle of the sky and delayed going down about a full day. 14 There has never been a day like it before or since, a day when the Lord listened to a human being. A. Obviously never happened. Ludicrous. Impossible. Absurd. B. Mysterious and puzzling verse. Who am I to question the word of the Lord? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mythra Posted November 9, 2015 Share Posted November 9, 2015 second multiple choice question: Man builds a boat big enough to fit two of each animal species on planet earth, then loads the animals on the boat. Man begins this project when he is 500 years old. A. Obviously never happened. Ludicrous. Impossible. Absurd. B. Mysterious and puzzling verse. Who am I to question the word of the Lord? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Posted November 9, 2015 Share Posted November 9, 2015 The Westboro Baptist Church does not practice or represent historic Baptist beliefs. They are in gross error. Maybe not historic Baptists beliefs, I don't know or care. However, I've heard Westboro people speak and they don't do anything that I am aware of without solid biblical reasoning and can tell you why they do it based on the bible. Would you be able to debate them biblically for what you disagree with them over? I personally think they have captured both the spirit and the letter of the bible as a whole. They are a living example of biblical teaching and how it is incompatible with current society that embraces human rights. My main argument would be love. They have become sounding brass and clanging cymbals. It profits them nothing. But after listening to members that have deconverted from their group, they clearly beleive that they are showing tough love for the greater good of the salvation of the listener. And they have scripture to back it up. I don't believe scripture but you do. I wonder how you might fare against them and their beliefs to show them just how "wrong" they are. I had a few Q here for you IH if you have time. If not just say so and I'll drop it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ironhorse Posted November 9, 2015 Author Share Posted November 9, 2015 The Westboro Baptist Church does not practice or represent historic Baptist beliefs. They are in gross error. Maybe not historic Baptists beliefs, I don't know or care. However, I've heard Westboro people speak and they don't do anything that I am aware of without solid biblical reasoning and can tell you why they do it based on the bible. Would you be able to debate them biblically for what you disagree with them over? I personally think they have captured both the spirit and the letter of the bible as a whole. They are a living example of biblical teaching and how it is incompatible with current society that embraces human rights. My main argument would be love. They have become sounding brass and clanging cymbals. It profits them nothing. But after listening to members that have deconverted from their group, they clearly beleive that they are showing tough love for the greater good of the salvation of the listener. And they have scripture to back it up. I don't believe scripture but you do. I wonder how you might fare against them and their beliefs to show them just how "wrong" they are. I had a few Q here for you IH if you have time. If not just say so and I'll drop it. I will try to give my best reply. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mythra Posted November 9, 2015 Share Posted November 9, 2015 Just one more multiple choice question. This passage about Jesus' post resurrection appearance: Behold my Beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased, in whom I have glorified my name—hear ye him.8 And it came to pass, as they understood they cast their eyes up again towards heaven; and behold, they saw a Man descending out of heaven; and he was clothed in a white robe; and he came down and stood in the midst of them; and the eyes of the whole multitude were turned upon him, and they durst not open their mouths, even one to another, and wist not what it meant, for they thought it was an angel that had appeared unto them.9 And it came to pass that he stretched forth his hand and spake unto the people, saying:10 Behold, I am Jesus Christ, whom the prophets testified shall come into the world. A. Obviously never happened. Ludicrous. Impossible. Absurd. B. Mysterious and puzzling verse. Who am I to question the word of the Lord? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super Moderator florduh Posted November 9, 2015 Super Moderator Share Posted November 9, 2015 Christian apologetics is easy whether it's to support Baptist doctrines, Catholic, SDA or Mormon versions of Truth. If it is illogical, impossible, contradictory or otherwise unbelievable, it is still absolutely true and we are at fault for not having proper understanding. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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