Trust Yourself

[dangitbobby83]

End, answer my question:

 

Does god answer prayers or not? Are christians lying when they say they were cured of cancer or were protected by god in a car wreck?

 

It seems to be that you're dodging. 

[Guest end3]

End, answer my question:

 

Does god answer prayers or not? Are christians lying when they say they were cured of cancer or were protected by god in a car wreck?

 

It seems to be that you're dodging. 

No clue whether he does Bob. I expect yes and can rationalize no.

[Guest end3]

 

Y'all know better and you still choose to blame God

It's YOUR fairy tale. You need to twist it into something real yet still palatable, I just take the story at face value.

 

Never doubted you for a minute...go get your helmet and have a beer.

[florduh]

go get your helmet and have a beer. 

 

We'll raise our mead in a toast to Odin!!!

[ironhorse]

God has not given us a blank check to ask anything of Him just as one might ask a genie in a fairy tale. Prayer is not a magical formula to get things from God. I can’t create things or speak them into existence. I can’t order God around like a bell-hop. I ran across Donnie Swaggart the other night on televsion doing just that...making the claim that God will give you whatever you ask. That is so misleading and wrong. It ignores what prayer is really about.

 

Prayer is taking time to personally communicate with God.

 

Prayer, to me, is a big deal. The thought that I can actually talk to God as I talk to a friend is a big deal. If you don’t believe there is a God, I understand why you might think it is really stupid but to me it is something that is part of my life.

 

There is a lot more going on with prayer than just making request but I will keep my post here on requests.

Something to remember from scripture:

 

My purpose in writing is simply this: that you who believe in God’s Son will know beyond the shadow of a doubt that you have eternal life, the reality and not the illusion. And how bold and free we then become in his presence, freely asking according to his will, sure that he’s listening. And if we’re confident that he’s listening, we know that what we’ve asked for is as good as ours.
~ 1 John 5:14-15 (The Message)

 

To ask God for anything in the name of Jesus Christ, it must be in keeping with his will. To ask in Christ's name is to ask as though Christ Himself were asking. Therefore, we can only ask for what Christ Himself would ask. I try to only ask for what Christ Himself would ask. It is therefore necessary to set aside my own will and accept God's.

 

Jesus’ prayer in Gethsemane:

“My Father, if it is possible, may this cup be taken from me. Yet not as I will, but as you will.” ~ Matthew 26:36

 

 

Is there proof God ever answers prayers? I believe he has answered my prayers, not all of them and others maybe never

but am grateful for the ones he has answered. 

 

Do prayers heal?

http://www.webmd.com/balance/features/can-prayer-heal

[dangitbobby83]

God has not given us a blank check to ask anything of Him just as one might ask a genie in a fairy tale. Prayer is not a magical formula to get things from God. I can’t create things or speak them into existence. I can’t order God around like a bell-hop. I ran across Donnie Swaggart the other night on televsion doing just that...making the claim that God will give you whatever you ask. That is so misleading and wrong. It ignores what prayer is really about.

 

So when god answers western, middle class+ prayers of job promotions or healing but ignores selfless prayers such as help feed starving children where we cannot reach, that's asking anything of god?

 

So what you're saying is...it is god's will and plan to allow children to starve to death while giving those with plenty more wealth and comfort?

[dangitbobby83]

 

End, answer my question:

 

Does god answer prayers or not? Are christians lying when they say they were cured of cancer or were protected by god in a car wreck?

 

It seems to be that you're dodging. 

No clue whether he does Bob. I expect yes and can rationalize no.

 

That's not an answer. That's dodging.

 

Talk to me like I'm a fellow christian. I say to you:

 

"Man, god has been great to me this week! Remember that bill I wasn't going to be able to pay? I found 100 bucks I must've lost laying right there in my room! I'm so thankful The Lord is watching out for me!"

 

Are you going to tell him, "God didn't do that, you did." or would you congratulate him on being blessed by god?

 

Which is it?  

[dangitbobby83]

To ask God for anything in the name of Jesus Christ, it must be in keeping with his will. To ask in Christ's name is to ask as though Christ Himself were asking. Therefore, we can only ask for what Christ Himself would ask. I try to only ask for what Christ Himself would ask. It is therefore necessary to set aside my own will and accept God's.

 

 

So god IS ultimately responsible for the starving people? Saying no to the prayer to help 21,000 people who starve to death each day must mean it is his will, yes?

[miamia]

Does anyone remember that the Bible mentions "test". Been a long time for me, but thinking it does. Y'all can twist this all over the place..."but it's the a poor child that doesn't know better"...ha. Y'all know better and you still choose to blame God for the starving child....and Christians.Kudos to Midniterider for taking responsibility.

 

a child being entrusted with a fish, hmm, here's a more accurate analog http://www.cbsnews.com/news/houston-toddler-killed-after-sibling-put-her-in-oven-court-docs/And that actually happened. SO, if you are going to defend your god, why not use a real situation. do you think the child was to blame? or the negligent parents.  Lets not sugarcoat it, using an unrealistic narrative about a relatively disposable fish.  If the father cared about the fish would he have left it utterly helpless and confined, to fend for itself at the mercy of an ignorant child, just to teach the child a lesson in responsibility? Yeah. dad is an idiot... if his intention was for the fish to survive in the first place. What if it wasn't? then he does not love each and every one of us? Or is it ok because the fish will go to heaven, as long as it says it trusts the man, who it has no capacity to comprehend or even know about, to save it from the ignorant child who has been presented with a useless exercise in responsibility by a father that refuses to be responsible for his own fish. I like the analog of a self sustaining terrarium better. If I fill a jar with a bunch of organisms and seal it to see how long this system can perpetuate itself, I do not condemn the protozoa to fiery torment for feasting upon the algae and bacteria, I don't condemn the plants for withering under the suns glare if I don't start it with enough moisture. Do I blame the insects I may have put in there for fighting among themselves when resources become scarce, for destroying the plants I incorporated until there is nothing left?  No I do not. even less so do I blame them if I am responsible for every minute aspect about them down to the atom. If it fails, it is because I am either ignorant, or because I have set it to fail. testing organisms that I know everything about against odds I have created must necessarily produce an outcome I can predict with utmost exactness, if I am indeed omnipotent. There is no relevant or measurable amount of free will to be found in insects I have stuffed into a jar, who will behave in a way their biology dictates. If there were a god capable of creating everything, you would be the insect in the equation. He would not care what you did, who you raped, who you killed, what you ate, what you grew, what you destroyed,or how many you proselytized to about your god among insects. You would die in the jar for your gods amusement. It would not necessarily be a malevolent being, just a curious one, so far advanced in comparison to our tree of life that it is unable to empathize with a bug. There is a jar, and we are all bugs. we don't know anything else.When all a bug knows is the jar, and it can't cope with the fact that it's likely never getting out, it start to make up stories about getting out of the jar, that there is a being who made the jar, and that the being that made the jar is it's friend. The bug starts making irrational decisions based on those imaginary scenarios, making life much more miserable for all the other bugs. Don't be that bug. If we all work together and think rationally there is a much better chance of getting out, or just preserving what we have here and enjoying it.

Now, THIS is an analogy!

always goes back to the same stuff....we assume we know the meaning of it all and choose our knowledge over faith. Reasonably sure that's one of the "biggie" points of the Bible.

nope, not assuming I know the meaning of it all, just refusing to assume or accept as fact, or if you will, HAVE FAITH about that which cannot be directly observed. Yes, I am also reasonably sure that's one of the biggie points of the bible, it's not as if any of us are uninformed when it comes to christianity,but Im not going to base my life choices on a work of fiction

[bornagainathiest]

Does anyone remember that the Bible mentions "test". Been a long time for me, but thinking it does. Y'all can twist this all over the place..."but it's the a poor child that doesn't know better"...ha.

 

Y'all know better and you still choose to blame God for the starving child....and Christians.

 

No, End.

This isn't a case of us knowing better.  This is a case of this is what the text of Genesis says.   You are the one who believes the actual words of Genesis mean something else.  And it's really very easy to demonstrate this.  All I  have to do is ask you one simple question and you'll either avoid answering it, claim that the text doesn't actually mean what it plainly says or claim that faith is required to read it as God intended.  The one thing you won't do is actually say what the text clearly and simply means.

 

Kudos to Midniterider for taking responsibility.

 

a child being entrusted with a fish, hmm, here's a more accurate analog http://www.cbsnews.com/news/houston-toddler-killed-after-sibling-put-her-in-oven-court-docs/

And that actually happened. SO, if you are going to defend your god, why not use a real situation. do you think the child was to blame? or the negligent parents.  Lets not sugarcoat it, using an unrealistic narrative about a relatively disposable fish. 

 

If the father cared about the fish would he have left it utterly helpless and confined, to fend for itself at the mercy of an ignorant child, just to teach the child a lesson in responsibility? Yeah. dad is an idiot... if his intention was for the fish to survive in the first place. What if it wasn't? then he does not love each and every one of us? Or is it ok because the fish will go to heaven, as long as it says it trusts the man, who it has no capacity to comprehend or even know about, to save it from the ignorant child who has been presented with a useless exercise in responsibility by a father that refuses to be responsible for his own fish.

 

I like the analog of a self sustaining terrarium better. If I fill a jar with a bunch of organisms and seal it to see how long this system can perpetuate itself, I do not condemn the protozoa to fiery torment for feasting upon the algae and bacteria, I don't condemn the plants for withering under the suns glare if I don't start it with enough moisture.

 

Do I blame the insects I may have put in there for fighting among themselves when resources become scarce, for destroying the plants I incorporated until there is nothing left? 

 

No I do not. even less so do I blame them if I am responsible for every minute aspect about them down to the atom. If it fails, it is because I am either ignorant, or because I have set it to fail. testing organisms that I know everything about against odds I have created must necessarily produce an outcome I can predict with utmost exactness, if I am indeed omnipotent. There is no relevant or measurable amount of free will to be found in insects I have stuffed into a jar, who will behave in a way their biology dictates.

 

If there were a god capable of creating everything, you would be the insect in the equation. He would not care what you did, who you raped, who you killed, what you ate, what you grew, what you destroyed,or how many you proselytized to about your god among insects. You would die in the jar for your gods amusement. It would not necessarily be a malevolent being, just a curious one, so far advanced in comparison to our tree of life that it is unable to empathize with a bug.

 

There is a jar, and we are all bugs. we don't know anything else.When all a bug knows is the jar, and it can't cope with the fact that it's likely never getting out, it start to make up stories about getting out of the jar, that there is a being who made the jar, and that the being that made the jar is it's friend. The bug starts making irrational decisions based on those imaginary scenarios, making life much more miserable for all the other bugs. Don't be that bug. If we all work together and think rationally there is a much better chance of getting out, or just preserving what we have here and enjoying it.

Now, THIS is an analogy!

 

always goes back to the same stuff....we assume we know the meaning of it all and choose our knowledge over faith. Reasonably sure that's one of the "biggie" points of the Bible.

 

 

Yes, of course it always comes back to this.

And it'll continue to do so until the day that you confront what the words of Genesis actually say and mean - rather than what you want to believe they say and mean.

 

Want me to ask that question, btw?

[TheRedneckProfessor]

End3, is god jehovah jireh, the provider, or not?  If he is, then he should provide; otherwise we have no reason to trust him.  Pictures of starving children exist because god does not provide.  What does this tell you?  

 

If he is not our provider, then he is not the god he claimed to be; and, therefore, we have no reason to trust him.

[TheRedneckProfessor]

 

 

It's analogous to Dad saying feed your fish while I am gone.....here's the food, the instructions. Problem is Dad left 2K years ago and we don't want to rely on stories about Dad. "I've never seen Dad, you?", "Heck no, Dad's stupid. Hey, why is that kid starving......hahahaha...it's Dad's fault"....."Idiot Dad".

Dad can't leave... he's everywhere

Dad sees the suffering because he's everywhere and all powerful

Dad does nothing because he's too busy winning sports matches and finding parking spots or possibly he's just a fairy tale like all others before and since

 

Let me rephrase to be more succinct.....Dad puts the responsibility in our hands for a time.

 

How convenient.  god blames us for bringing sin into his "perfect" creation; then puts the "responsibility" into our hands again, so that he can blame us all over when shit don't go according to his "perfect" plan.  Your god is a pathetic excuse for a dad.  This is precisely why child protective services exist.

[TheRedneckProfessor]

God 

I believe I asked you a question concerning whom the child should have trusted.  I have also prayed, in this very forum, for god to make you answer our questions.  Be an answer to prayer, TinPony; god is watching.

[♦ nivek ♦]

From Post #80

 

Prayer is taking time to personally communicate with God.

 

 

 

..snipped a ton of horse shitte:

 

Is why we marksmen have our own Prayer?

 

 

1248 meters marked.. 2 dot left... Wind? 4 click right.. send!

 

Poof. 

 

Hadn't thought Jehobba had much to do with bullet placement so much.

 

k,explodingmilkjugs@1km+,FL

[Jeff]

...ha. Y'all know better and you still choose to blame God for the starving child....and Christians.

1. Yes we do know better. We don't actually blame an imaginary being for this. We're just holding your god to your bible standards except you prefer other verses that say what you want to hear and ignore our verses that you don't like. But we don't actually blame any gods.

 

2. I don't think we blame Christians for anything other than selective bible reading and having imaginary friends like we used to have. If anyone, I blame their countrymen and the countries around them for bad politics and tribalism. Parts of Africa seems to not give a shit about other parts of Africa.

[midniterider]

 

 

Guess we don't need Dad then. We'll handle it. We're grown ups.

 

 

It's absolutely hilarious that christians are totally fine with placing the blame on humans when other humans suffer - but when humans DON'T suffer, are HEALED, or given more comfort, then it's TOTALLY god. He saved you from that wreck, he cured your cancer, he gave you that job promotion...etc

 

God is TOTALLY responsible, except when he isn't. They want it both ways - they want to give praise to god for everything good but excuse him for everything bad. He fully interferes with free will to bless us. He fully interferes with our lives to make sure some good shit happens.

 

Notice that neither End nor IH are in here claiming god is blessing people.  But watch their church on sunday and it's a different story. 

 

As I said, when faced with skeptical analysis, god morphs into something they don't believe really, but can't admit (either he isn't real or he's a dick) because their worldview would fall apart. 

 

 

Christians don't really believe in nor expect powerful God-caused happenings to occur in the present day any more than a non-believer.

[midniterider]

To ask God for anything in the name of Jesus Christ, it must be in keeping with his will. To ask in Christ's name is to ask as though Christ Himself were asking. Therefore, we can only ask for what Christ Himself would ask. I try to only ask for what Christ Himself would ask. It is therefore necessary to set aside my own will and accept God's.

 

"Whatever you ask for ... according the the End User Licensing Agreement and Terms of Service.... God will give you!"

 

Click {Accept}  or {Refuse}

[bornagainathiest]

God has not given us a blank check to ask anything of Him just as one might ask a genie in a fairy tale. Prayer is not a magical formula to get things from God. I can’t create things or speak them into existence. I can’t order God around like a bell-hop. I ran across Donnie Swaggart the other night on televsion doing just that...making the claim that God will give you whatever you ask. That is so misleading and wrong. It ignores what prayer is really about.

 

Prayer is taking time to personally communicate with God.

 

Prayer, to me, is a big deal. The thought that I can actually talk to God as I talk to a friend is a big deal. If you don’t believe there is a God, I understand why you might think it is really stupid but to me it is something that is part of my life.

 

There is a lot more going on with prayer than just making request but I will keep my post here on requests.

Something to remember from scripture:

 

My purpose in writing is simply this: that you who believe in God’s Son will know beyond the shadow of a doubt that you have eternal life, the reality and not the illusion. And how bold and free we then become in his presence, freely asking according to his will, sure that he’s listening. And if we’re confident that he’s listening, we know that what we’ve asked for is as good as ours.

~ 1 John 5:14-15 (The Message)

 

To ask God for anything in the name of Jesus Christ, it must be in keeping with his will. To ask in Christ's name is to ask as though Christ Himself were asking. Therefore, we can only ask for what Christ Himself would ask. I try to only ask for what Christ Himself would ask. It is therefore necessary to set aside my own will and accept God's.

 

Jesus’ prayer in Gethsemane:

“My Father, if it is possible, may this cup be taken from me. Yet not as I will, but as you will.” ~ Matthew 26:36

 

 

Is there proof God ever answers prayers? I believe he has answered my prayers, not all of them and others maybe never

but am grateful for the ones he has answered. 

 

Do prayers heal?

http://www.webmd.com/balance/features/can-prayer-heal

 

Notice Ironhorse's flip-flopping in this thread, folks?

 

In post # 32, he actively defends his Christian faith by quoting Duderonomy's question about Christians being subject to earthly authority and then responding directly to it.

 

But in the above, he reverts back to passively representing his Christian faith, by not quoting any of our questions and not responding to any of them or us either.

.

.

.

1 Peter 3:15 New International Version (NIV)

 

But in your hearts revere Christ as Lord.  Always be prepared to give an answer to everyone who asks you to give the reason for the hope that you have.  But do this with gentleness and respect,

[dangitbobby83]

 

 

 

Guess we don't need Dad then. We'll handle it. We're grown ups.

 

 

It's absolutely hilarious that christians are totally fine with placing the blame on humans when other humans suffer - but when humans DON'T suffer, are HEALED, or given more comfort, then it's TOTALLY god. He saved you from that wreck, he cured your cancer, he gave you that job promotion...etc

 

God is TOTALLY responsible, except when he isn't. They want it both ways - they want to give praise to god for everything good but excuse him for everything bad. He fully interferes with free will to bless us. He fully interferes with our lives to make sure some good shit happens.

 

Notice that neither End nor IH are in here claiming god is blessing people.  But watch their church on sunday and it's a different story. 

 

As I said, when faced with skeptical analysis, god morphs into something they don't believe really, but can't admit (either he isn't real or he's a dick) because their worldview would fall apart. 

 

 

Christians don't really believe in nor expect powerful God-caused happenings to occur in the present day any more than a non-believer.

 

 

I don't know what churches you've been to, but after going to an extremely fundy church (Southern Baptist), a less fundy, but still evangelical church (Nazarene, Free Methodist), three Liberal churches, (non-denom), a liberal christian college (Methodist) and marrying an Evangelical/Methodist pastor daughter, I can tell you without a doubt, christians do very much believe and expect powerful God-caused happenings to occur in their life. 

 

In my 7+ years of being in various churches, I've seen, heard about, and watched as christians talk about:

 

- God saving people from car wrecks

- God curing cancer and all forms of disease

- God helping people get better jobs, gain monetary raises at work, finding money, winning money

- God finding people husbands/wife's

- God allowing people to have children

- God stopping storms or protecting people from natural disasters

- God directly answering prayers of all types - from simple "please give me a sign" to "we need to raise money" to "find me a husband" and everything in between. 

 

I even did it too. There were several events in which I really believed god directly answered prayer.

 

Looking back I realized how damn selfish and silly it was. 

 

Since dropping "prayer" and becoming atheist, I've received no more and no less "blessing" than when I was a christian. I still have great things happen to me. I still have bad things happen to me. 

[midniterider]

 

 

 

 

Guess we don't need Dad then. We'll handle it. We're grown ups.

 

 

It's absolutely hilarious that christians are totally fine with placing the blame on humans when other humans suffer - but when humans DON'T suffer, are HEALED, or given more comfort, then it's TOTALLY god. He saved you from that wreck, he cured your cancer, he gave you that job promotion...etc

 

God is TOTALLY responsible, except when he isn't. They want it both ways - they want to give praise to god for everything good but excuse him for everything bad. He fully interferes with free will to bless us. He fully interferes with our lives to make sure some good shit happens.

 

Notice that neither End nor IH are in here claiming god is blessing people.  But watch their church on sunday and it's a different story. 

 

As I said, when faced with skeptical analysis, god morphs into something they don't believe really, but can't admit (either he isn't real or he's a dick) because their worldview would fall apart. 

 

 

Christians don't really believe in nor expect powerful God-caused happenings to occur in the present day any more than a non-believer.

 

 

I don't know what churches you've been to, but after going to an extremely fundy church (Southern Baptist), a less fundy, but still evangelical church (Nazarene, Free Methodist), three Liberal churches, (non-denom), a liberal christian college (Methodist) and marrying an Evangelical/Methodist pastor daughter, I can tell you without a doubt, christians do very much believe and expect powerful God-caused happenings to occur in their life. 

 

In my 7+ years of being in various churches, I've seen, heard about, and watched as christians talk about:

 

- God saving people from car wrecks

- God curing cancer and all forms of disease

- God helping people get better jobs, gain monetary raises at work, finding money, winning money

- God finding people husbands/wife's

- God allowing people to have children

- God stopping storms or protecting people from natural disasters

- God directly answering prayers of all types - from simple "please give me a sign" to "we need to raise money" to "find me a husband" and everything in between. 

 

I even did it too. There were several events in which I really believed god directly answered prayer.

 

Looking back I realized how damn selfish and silly it was. 

 

Since dropping "prayer" and becoming atheist, I've received no more and no less "blessing" than when I was a christian. I still have great things happen to me. I still have bad things happen to me. 

 

 

What I meant was Christians may ascribe some event  to Jesus that non-believers ascribe to random probability or to some natural phenomenon. Christians are satisfied with a God that never shows up in person to say hello and are satisfied with vague signs that their God exists. They are satisfied with thinking that they are getting 'a word' from Jesus when the word is really from their imagination. They are satisfied with his 100% absence. They just pretend he's there.

 

I heard the same baloney in church that you did about how God did this and God did that and we sang about our awesome God... but Jesus sure as heck never appeared, never took the mic in church, never started preaching, healing or doing anything all. He never showed up. And we were satisfied with that. Satisfied with pretending.

 

I went to a Pentecostal church for 10 years. The only supernatural occurrences were in our collective imagination. Christians would like to think that Jesus is doing all sorts of miracles in their lives. The only problem is there is no evidence to support it.

 

Christians are satisfied with experiencing the same exact thing non-believers experience. They just pretend God did it. (hope that clarified my one liner above in msg 93)

 

Ironhorse goes as far as to negate the efficacy of prayer in John 14:13 by saying that you have to pray for something Jesus wants in order for prayer to work. How useless. Seems to me like he isn't really expecting prayer to work.

 

Would Jesus want me to have a Lexus? I think he would. Maybe I should pray in his name about that? 

[TheRedneckProfessor]

I wonder what would happen if people started praying for people to stop praying?

[dangitbobby83]

Ironhorse goes as far as to negate the efficacy of prayer in John 14:13 by saying that you have to pray for something Jesus wants in order for prayer to work. How useless. Seems to me like he isn't really expecting prayer to work.

 

 

Oh, okay I see what you're saying. 

 

And yes - what IH says is a double edged sword. Asking for things that Jesus already wants to happen really isn't prayer, it's simply being a yes man. However, there is the other side of this coin: if you pray for starving children to no longer be starving, to be fed, and Jesus says "no" to miraculously doing so, then it's his will they starve. This means that you should pray for them to continue to starve and die.

 

If his will is to allow people to suffer, then you should pray for continued suffering. 

 

However, there are bible verses in which prayer has caused god to change his mind. In numbers it says he doesn't change his mind - and in several other verses he does change his mind. So does he or doesn't he?

 

The mental gymnastics needed to believe this shit is huge. 

[Guest end3]

 

...ha. Y'all know better and you still choose to blame God for the starving child....and Christians.

1. Yes we do know better. We don't actually blame an imaginary being for this. We're just holding your god to your bible standards except you prefer other verses that say what you want to hear and ignore our verses that you don't like. But we don't actually blame any gods.

 

2. I don't think we blame Christians for anything other than selective bible reading and having imaginary friends like we used to have. If anyone, I blame their countrymen and the countries around them for bad politics and tribalism. Parts of Africa seems to not give a shit about other parts of Africa.

 

I don't know Jeff. As it is also with some end result we call "good". As I understand the Bible, there were initially rules for God's people that ultimately couldn't be achieved. This implies to me that ultimately there is a specific set of mechanisms/actions that will result in the result "good". If this is true, then humanity DOESN'T know or understand the mechanism. So as the next part of the plan to bring humanity to the end goal "good", God takes responsibility through Christ and then tells humanity...here are some general commandments and just have faith that your ticket has been punched through Christ's understanding.

 

So what EVERYONE is asking here is to DEFINE something that only Christ can define......and holding your fellow humans accountable for the misunderstandings. Is this logical to y'all?

 

I have had ministers/preachers/pastors/elders/deacons tell me "I don't know the answer to that". I expect there are several approaches to the dilemma. One can either see the reasoning of God through Christ or we can call it all BS.

 

Either way, the child needs to get food.

[ironhorse]

 

...and where God does not exist would be a sad world. In such world it would be impossible to find any hope.

 

You seem to be projecting your own need for a god belief on the rest of humanity. Clearly, there are plenty of happy, productive, well adjusted people who don't share the god delusion.

 

And just as clearly, IH and almost everyone else here who hails from the West became a Christian in the first place because of societal and familial influence. Otherwise we would have become Hindus, Buddhists, Muslims or some other locally ubiquitous belief system.

 

 

 

You seem to be projecting your own need for a god belief on the rest of humanity. Clearly, there are plenty of happy, productive, well adjusted people who don't share the god delusion.

I just posted a song. What others think they need is up to them to decide…which is one of the themes in the song.

I agree with you that some are happy without accepting the idea if a God.

And just as clearly, IH and almost everyone else here who hails from the West became a Christian in the first place because of societal and familial influence. Otherwise we would have become Hindus, Buddhists, Muslims or some other locally ubiquitous belief system.

 

One does is not a Christian by simply being born in a Christian home or being baptized as a baby by a priest. I can’t remember at the moment how other belief systems acknowledge membership.

I do know that Christianity is a fast growing faith in Africa and Asia. In China, it is really growing.

[sdelsolray]

Ironhorse is a misguided apologist.  He apologizes for himself and not for his religion.