Really need advice

[Bazz99]

Hi everyone, I have lurked for a bit in search of answers and am finally glad to be amongst you great people.

 

Mine is an unusual dilema, in that I have never been a born again Christian, but am finding it impacting my life rather dramatically right now.

 

I was raised as a roman catholic in ireland but am non practising.

 

When i was 18( I am now 40) i was with a girl whom i loved and was devastated when she called it off. She was a carefree spirit, partying, drinking, smoking etc. We tried to stay friends but that didnt work. Not long after she rushed into a marriage with a guy who had a mental ilnness. He made her cut all ties with me.

 

Fast forward 16 years, I married a girl and settled down. Something in me made me reach out to contact my old flame, more out of curiousity. To cut a long story kinda short. We met up a few times and instantly clicked again. My own marriage was in trouble and my wife was having numerous affairs. I always stayed faithful.

 

My long lost friend was now a medical nurse and had been separated for 5 years from her husband. She had a restraining order against him for mental and physical violence. But heres the kicker, she was now a fully fledged entrenched born again christian. And apparantly god had given her the testimoney that her husband would be made anew and returned to her as a new man.

 

I had no previous experience of these christian cults. Anyway one day I get a call from her that she has lost her job. But that it was god punishing her because she had fallen in love with me. She then severed all ties.

 

That was 3 years ago, Im not divorced and constantly plaqued by this idea that my dream girl who i truely love has been taken away from me because of this cult.

 

Its driving me insane!!! What can I do??

[Bazz99]

Sorry I meant to say, I am now divorced from my wife.

[MOHO]

@Bazz99,

 

If she has severed  ties with you there is not much you can do with the exception of ensuring she can contact you if she so desires, ie maintain your phone #, and email account yada yada.

 

Do not pursue her as this could be construed as stalking.

 

She's in the cult and, based on personal experience, YOU cannot change that. She has to - if it is to be.

Quite frankly if she was making bad decisions in her life, pre Jesus Freakdom, and is walking the line now then perhaps she is better off as a believer. 

 

Thanx for sharing. Welcome to Ex-C, and I hope to read more from you.

    - MOHO (Mind Of His Own)

[Bazz99]

Thanks for the reply. Yeah I have left all channels of communication for her to contact me open. You guys know better than me, is there any chance she will snap out of it?

 

I think I painted a bad picture of her as a party animal, truth is she was just doing what all teenagers do at a certain point. She was incredibly sweet and caring girl. Her parents loved me too, seen me as future son in law material, and they were equally upset when we broke up.

 

However ofcourse these same carefree happy parents are in the same church. Fully entrenched.

 

Heres the thing....I called at her house recently and she welcomed me in, she is still separated from her husband. We chatted, she made me dinner, hugged me, told me she still had feelings for me, but that her testimoney has not changed.

 

I guess now its gone beyond my physical love for her, and I am now more concerned on a human level that this is going to destroy her life

[MOHO]

Xianity will not destroy her life. It will change it, for sure, perhaps foul it up beyond recognition, bit I Think destroy is a bit harsh.

Some people need the god virus and live a happy life thinking there is a higher being out there. Yes the fundy thing will negatively impact one's life.

 

There's really nothing you can do unless she asks questions. Then you can certainly offer advise and I suggest you be prepared if she does. Studying xanity, and religion, will prepare your for that unlikely event and will also prepare you if someone else asks questions. 

 

Beyond that...move on. Continuing to see here will only cause hurt and pain for both of you. 

 

 

[Bazz99]

Thankyou MOHO, for replying to me.

 

As a novice Ive never heard of xanity, what exactly is that? I would be very poorly equipped to deal with any questions she would ever ask.

 

Is it normal practise for born again fundys to always base their decisions in life on a prayer to god? Never making one on their own? And if they can hear these replies from god, what causes that, is it a form of mental illness?

Sorry for all the questions guys

[Bazz99]

Its certainly a very bitter pill to swallow, when the woman of your dreams falls in love with you, but god says no.

[MOHO]

xanity is Christianity. Not a of oft used shortcut I guess.

 

Yes, it's common place for xtians to base decisions on prayer. All the time. Mrs. MOHO does not take a crap w/out praying and she CERTAINLY prays when I am in there. All the neighbors have HASMAT (Hazardous Materials Team) on speed dial. 

 

yes, it sux frozen canine pee pee's to lose a loved one and, you've heard this hundreds of times. but there really IS someone more suited to you. Perhaps hundreds of them. I mean, unless you have an eyeball in the middle of your forehead or something. The next one will not be a religious zealot and, hopefully, here folks will not be either. That's two strikes against the current Ex.

 

OK then. Tomorrow's another day with a myriad of opportunity.

 

Don't be sorry for the questions. That's kinda what this site is for. We've had a number of boyz and girlz lamenting losing a relationship to religion - especially funny mentalism - and I'll bet we've assisted several via the emotional support we offer. Well...maybe not me specifically. I'm kind of a smartastical dill weed. But there's other folks here who are actually smart. 

 

 

[Bazz99]

Thanks MOHO you have a wonderful sense of humour and I really appreciate all that you have taken the time to say

 

Oh and how did you know I had an eyeball in centre of my forehead?

[Geezer]

Born again Christians do not think logically or rationally nor do they respond to evidence that challenges their “beliefs”. They believe historians and scientist are controlled by Satan, so therefore everything they say is the Devil speaking through them to deceive believers so the Devil can steal their souls. 

 

I have found it virtually impossible to have an intelligent conversation with a born again Christian fundamentalist. They are part of a cult and therefore only respond to other cult members.

 

The only possible way this woman could ever be romantically interested in you would require you to become a member of her fundamentalist cult, but because  the only scriptural divorce fundamentalist recognize is one based on adultery. And since both of you are divorced both divorces would have had to be based on adultery for the church to accept them as scriptural. 

 

Otherwise you both both would be living in sin and that would be unacceptable. I see little or no hope that you two will ever be able to have a romantic relationship again. 

 

 

[DanForsman]

MOHO knows what he is talking about on this subject whereas I have learned whatever I have based on reading on this site. If you totally want to persue this relationship I would suggest addressing the elephant in the livingroom. You have two ways to go. You can answer her prayers and get saved and try living the Christian life but unless this really appeals to you we would not suggest it because we found it as pretty much a complete obstruction to living our lives honestly and well. No matter what you do it would be good for you to read at least something on how this cult operates both from someone who loves it and from someone who doesn't (maybe Reasonable Faith by William Lane Craig and The God Delusion by Richard Dawkins for example). I know this is massively boring but better to enter in prepared if that is what you choose to do. The second option may or may not be open to you and that would be persuading her to enter into an unequally yoked marriage (like MOHO and a respectable number of other on this site have wound up with). I would say that the only way you could get this to fly at all would be by saying something like although Christianity didn't seem very true to you you are madly in love with her and therefore would be willing to attend church with her and see what it's all about. What's best about this second option is that you won't need to throw your sanity out the window right away.  As I say this it does sound like a pretty dicy proposition as she will try for a trial church courtship before committing to a marriage. However that would probably get your foot in the door to see if there really are any prospects of a relationship and clearly be a much better idea than jumping into a marriage blindfolded.

[Bazz99]

Thanks Geezer for your reply.

 

I hear all that you are saying.

 

She did say the last time i saw here that she feels at a crossroads in her faith...whatever that means?

[Bazz99]

Thankyou so much Dan for your considered reply.

 

You are totally right, im a fish outta water here and have no real understanding of what im up against

[DanForsman]

Just curious Bazz99 but have you ever tried filling out one of those incredibly detailed forms and giving the online dating thing a whirl? It is a modern wonder of our times after all and they would never match you wih a fundamentalist evangelical and there are some really terrific non believers out there. Whatever you do be careful because falling in love only last a finite amount of time and all the rest of those years together it will really matter about how many things you have in common. Not saying this love interest you presently have doesn't possibly still have tons in common with you I'm just saying look carefully because the odds are probably against it. If your possible love interest does allow you to do some conditional dating you still should possibly still consider filling out those forms and see who they recommend you go out with.

[DanForsman]

If she tells you she is at a crossroads in her faith then that is an opening for you to ask her what she means. If you want any relationship with her you will have to discuss her faith and all that comes with that. It is a peculiar remark to make for someone who is so god driven in her day to day life. Maybe she is having some doubts? Anything is possible.

[Bazz99]

Thanks Dan. 

Nope never tried online dating.

Im in no rush to get romantically involved with anyone else

 

Yes it struck me as an odd thing for her to say

[sdelsolray]

5 hours ago, Bazz99 said:

...

 

Its driving me insane!!! What can I do??

I cannot say with any certainty what you can/should do.  That being said, I would suggest you strongly consider not getting involved with a Christian nutter, regardless of whether you knew her before, are attracted to her now, have an opportunity to get involved, are having issues with your wife, wanting to relive a lost past that never was, or for any other reason.

You have more than two choices...many more.

[Bazz99]

Thanks for your reply.

 

What you have said certainly rings true on a lot of levels.

 

But its so difficult to deal with, especially as im so unknowledgable (cant even spell it) in the fundamentalism thing

[◊ Weezer ◊]

Welcome to the forum.   I'm going to take a different approach to this situation.  The religion is an issue, but not the main issue.

 

Consider that you are attracted to a fantasy.  A fantasy of what life might be with this person.  There must be some "chemistry" going on between you,  but chemistry alone  doesn't make a healthy relationship.   Healthy relationships require mutual trust, respect, and acceptance of each other "as is."   It also requires each person having a pretty good understanding of who they (themself) are, and they don't pretend to be something they are not, such as faking a belief. 

 

Is there a "rescue" fantasy going on with you?  You will rescue her from her situation and you will both live happily hereafter?   NOT likely to happen.

 

I would suggest both of you need to figure out what you want out of life.  At least a general direction to shoot for.  If you don't have that, you might want to seek some professional help.  At least some consultation with a licensed marriage and family therapist.  NOT A CHRISTIAN COUNSELOR.  Then, if you are both on the same page, and you both want to give it a try, go for it.  But, I am getting ahead of myself, and your situation.  From what I understand, you aren't even in the same book with the  woman at this time. 

 

Who ever you are interested in, remember that until you really know each other, and are willing to accept each other "as is", over the long haul, you don't have the foundation for a healthy relationship.  I might add there are MANY relationships that don't have 100% of that.  But any wish that the other will change something, just might fester and grow into a problem.  You have a lot on your plate.  Eat slowly, and let each bite digest before moving on.  

 

This was off the top of my head, so if I have misinterpreted your situation, Please ignore the above.

[Bazz99]

Thankyou Weezer for your reply.

 

Wow I'm blown away by you guys and your thoughtful considered replies. You have all gave me so much food for thought.

 

I think theres a certain truth when you say I am trying to rescue and perhaps not being aware that I'm falling into a fantasy.

 

One other thing of interest she said to me. She told me how shocked she was, at being able to relate to me and feel such a strong bond with me, especially as I am a non christian.

[florduh]

https://video.search.yahoo.com/search/video?fr=mcafee&p=crabs+walk+sideways+and+lobsters+walk+straight#id=3&vid=03b77e6a08a2fd77e96238b21e660dd5&action=click

 

[Bazz99]

Very good florduh

[TABA]

Hi Bazz99, and special greetings from a fellow Irish (ex)Catholic!  I also spent 20+ years in a fundamentalist church (Church of Christ) and while I didn’t fully drink the Kool-Aid, or at least not for long, I certainly know how they think.  Needless to say, there are different types of Christians, not just doctrinally (umpteen denominations, each in possession of The Truth), but in how seriously they take it.  I say this because figuring out what type of Christian this lady is could be the key to knowing whether you might have a future together.

 

I should add that many Christians suffer from some kind of cognitive dissonance (believing mutually incompatible things) and the others go to some length to avoid it.  For example, traditional Christian teaching has always been that non-Christians will spend eternity burning in Hell after we die.  But nowadays many Christians can’t stomach that idea.  Some of them deal with it by believing that Hell is simply annihilation: when you and I die we just die, fade to black, but Christians will be taken to Heaven for eternity.  Others believe that Jesus saved all of humanity from Hell.  

 

For those Christians who truly think the unbelievers go to Hell, they deal with it by avoiding non-Christians as much as possible, because let’s face it, it would be hard to be around people whom you knew were doomed to that kind of future.  It would be heartbreaking every day.  Or they convince themselves that non-believers are really nasty people who, deep down, deserve Hell.  And the best way to keep thinking that is to avoid any evidence to the contrary.  This is why it’s important that more and more of us come out as non-theists.  The more of us there are, the harder it will be for Christians to avoid facing up to the implications of their belief system.  The more the cognitive dissonance bothers them , the more Ex-Christians there will be.  

 

So can this lady “snap out of it”?  It’s possible, sure.  After all most of us here were more-or-less fundamentalist and we snapped out of it.  But we are NOT typical, I’m afraid.  Most don’t snap out of it.  But I see some hope for you.  She clearly still fancies you, and she will struggle with the idea that this man she is so drawn to and who makes her happy deserves to go to Hell.  She will either break it off once and for all or cracks will start to appear in her faith.  If that happens, you could possibly help her through a deconversion process.  There are tons of material here in these forums as to why Christianity is unfounded.  Once faith starts to give way to reason, reason most often wins.  

 

I’m not going to sugar-coat it, it’s a long-shot I think.  But if anybody can pry her away from the “faith-virus”, it’s gonna be you.  Maybe if you spend time together regularly, with no strings attached, that cognitive dissonance will kick in and you can start to move forward together.  But I think you can only give it so much time.  At some point if nothing’s changing you need to move on.  Easy for me to say, I know.  But your heart and other organs deserve better.  We only live once.

 

Man, I hope this helps in some small way.  Good luck!  We’re always here to help each other out...

[Karna]

I was not in exactly the same position; but pretty close. 

 

I appreciate the views of TABA above; but I have to disagree on one bit - No amount of being a model person to prove that you are a decent human being will help. This will make her wonder that there are good people out there who do not profess the same faith as hers. But it will not make her liberal in her views. She will be confused as to how her god can send such nice people to hell. But this will not be enough for her to snap out of it. When I asked my deluded chick as to what would happen to my family (non xtians) after they die, she said that she didnt know. 

But she was confident that she will be going to heaven!

 

No amount of you trying to pry her out of her delusion will help. This has to come from within her. Any external stimuli will more likely result in her wrapping herself more tightly under her cocoon. It might be possible if you had loads of time together. But unfortunately the dating situation doesn't give you much time for that and eventually you have to set a timeline.

 

Granted, she might be a different individual and perhaps will crack open easily under your sustained efforts. I, unfortunately, wasn't able to get through to my deluded chick.

[Bazz99]

Thanks Taba, that was reply was so heartfelt it actually made me emotional...must be an Irish thing.

 

Im glad we got each others backs.