Any newbie ex christians?

[dustmouse]

See, now you know what we are going to have to put in our sigs.........................................

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edit for color adjustment!

[scitsofreaky]

Scitsofreaky, 18 years IS a LOOOONG time. How long did it take you, after the 18 years to come to the belief that it wasn't for you anymore?

 

Thanks for allowing me to pick your brain here, LOL, this all helps me so much to be able to talk with others that have already been on this same path. 

 

Lisa

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

My statement may have been a bit misleading, I was raised christian from birth, so I was one for the first 18 years of my life, sort of. I was one of those who "believed" just because that was how I wa raised. But I really started questioning as a teenager when I started really learning about science and philosophy. I also read the Bible for myself, and realized that it was full of shit. My deconversion in my mind was very fast, basically as long as it takes to have a realization. But, I have yet to let my family know that I don't believe, it would just be another strain on my relationship with them that I just don't need.

I guess from reading other's responses that I am lucky when it comes to friends. My friend that I have had since I was 13 did convert to christianity, and I think I may have had a part in it, but was too damn smart to stay, and he deconverted around the same time as I did. As I look back though, it seems like neither of us really believed, we just did it because everyone around us was doing it.

I have since delved into deism, and am finding it a very constructive place to be, as opposed to the deconstructive nature of chistianity that I grew up in.

 

I think that confused is a great place to be, once you think you know what is going on you is when you don't get anything done.

I really don't have a problem with hell, but I hate being wrong, so I freak out about being wrong about christianity. I'm not worried about hell because of Ethan Allen's "Reason: The Only Oracle of Man." Basically, if God is just, as the bible claims, then hell does not exist because for an eternal punishment to be just, we would have to be infinitely guilty, and since we are finite beings, we are incapable of anything infinite. So, either hell exists, or God is just, but not both. So, the Bible must have a flaw, which is fatal to the beliefs.

[Kryten]

Welcome!

I'm less that 5 months old AD (After Deconversion), and was a Christian for 30 years. It was around this last Thanksgiving when I realized it was all fake. I still am seeing a great woman who specifically wants a Christian man, so it's possible she'll be ending the relationship (after 3+ yrs) when she finds out where I really stand. She already knows I no longer believe the Bible is inerrant or the word of God, and has a hard time with that, but doesn't want to talk about those things anymore. She suspects I may have dumped Christianity altogether but is probably not anxious to break up with me. She gets pressure from her family (who also suspect), plus she doesn't want me influencing her son "against god". So she's in quite a spot. When the subject comes up, niether of us are eager to get into it. She may be willing to just accept me because I am very good to her and fully devoted and supportive of her. We just don't have the same beliefs anymore. Don't know what will happen there. I could prove to her it's all false, but she WANTS to believe (so she does).

I have found reading and studying the origins of Christianity very enlightening. As for a new philosophy, I highly recommend Richard Carrier's book, Sense & Goodness Without God.

 

How did I start the deconversion? Studying on-line things from Religious Tolerance that showed what the rest of the world believes, all based on the same Bible. Then some biblical evidence that is pretty convincing that there is no hell, and then some of the older Skeptical Review issues (new web site here), which display without a doubt how much crap is in the Bible. Things you never hear from the pulpit or on TBN.

So I'm still new to this, but feel very powerful in my knowledge (truth is POWER), and I feel very free, peaceful and happy.

[Dio]

This is an awesome website. If it's any consolation, Lisa, I am about 8 months into my deconversion. It was a tough and lonely struggle for awhile, compounded by a recent divorce. This place was a major comfort to me; a place to come where people knew who I was, where I could find understanding, reason, common sense and camaraderie. I posted some 350 times on the old forum, most of which were just moronic rambling and venting. But it was necessary for my peace of mind.

 

Now I just visit here on occasion and rarely post, just because I've found other outlets, emotionally and psychologically - friends and relationships. They are still out there and available - it just takes time. Things have gone extremely well of late, and I have never considered returning to the faith or the church. I was a healthy and whole person before I was a xian, and I am now becoming one even more so after deconverting. Welcome and best wishes.

[Merlinfmct87]

This is an awesome website.  If it's any consolation, Lisa, I am about 8 months into my deconversion.  It was a tough and lonely struggle for awhile, compounded by a recent divorce.  This place was a major comfort to me; a place to come where people knew who I was, where I could find understanding, reason, common sense and camaraderie.  I posted some 350 times on the old forum, most of which were just moronic rambling and venting.  But it was necessary for my peace of mind. 

 

Now I just visit here on occasion and rarely post, just because I've found other outlets, emotionally and psychologically - friends and relationships.  They are still out there and available - it just takes time.  Things have gone extremely well of late, and I have never considered returning to the faith or the church.  I was a healthy and whole person before I was a xian, and I am now becoming one even more so after deconverting.  Welcome and best wishes.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Hey, You'll ALWAYS have a home here.

 

Merlin

[Panther]

Welcome! 

I'm less that 5 months old AD (After Deconversion), and was a Christian for 30 years.  It was around this last Thanksgiving when I realized it was all fake.  I still am seeing a great woman who specifically wants a Christian man, so it's possible she'll be ending the relationship (after 3+ yrs) when she finds out where I really stand.  She already knows I no longer believe the Bible is inerrant or the word of God, and has a hard time with that, but doesn't want to talk about those things anymore.  She suspects I may have dumped Christianity altogether but is probably not anxious to break up with me.  She gets pressure from her family (who also suspect), plus she doesn't want me influencing her son "against god".  So she's in quite a spot.  When the subject comes up, niether of us are eager to get into it.  She may be willing to just accept me because I am very good to her and fully devoted and supportive of her.  We just don't have the same beliefs anymore. Don't know what will happen there.  I could prove to her it's all false, but she WANTS to believe (so she does).   

I have found reading and studying the origins of Christianity very enlightening.  As for a new philosophy, I highly recommend Richard Carrier's book, Sense & Goodness Without God. 

 

How did I start the deconversion?  Studying on-line things from Religious Tolerance that showed what the rest of the world believes, all based on the same Bible.  Then some biblical evidence that is pretty convincing that there is no hell, and then some of the older Skeptical Review issues (new web site here), which display without a doubt how much crap is in the Bible.  Things you never hear from the pulpit or on TBN. 

So I'm still new to this, but feel very powerful in my knowledge (truth is POWER), and I feel very free, peaceful and happy.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

 

Hi Kryten!

I sure hope your lady doesn't use your leaving xtianity as a reason to leave a perfectly great relationship! I hope she sees what is important....that you are a good, devoted man!

It got me thinking about christian men......I left a message board I had been on for many years when I came here. What I saw was disgusting....I saw some married men on there making passes at the christen women, arranging to "meet" them, etc. just becuase their own wives weren't as interested in the religion......to me, they negated the whole thing by acting in that way. I could go on, but I'm sure you know what I mean.

It also makes me so upset at the stress that christians put on each other......such as "leave that person if they are not christian, leave your old friends, etc."

Like as if we are not as worthy as individuals just because of our preferences in belief.......

 

I am not suggesting that your situation is anything like that at all....rather it just got me thinking about some things.

 

Thanks for the links! I saved them to read them later. I have been collecting all kinds of information this way and I spend so much time researching. My decision is completely made, of course, but for some reason, I seem compelled to keep reading more and more.

 

Thanks for writing, hope to have some more discussions with ya!

[Panther]

This is an awesome website.  If it's any consolation, Lisa, I am about 8 months into my deconversion.  It was a tough and lonely struggle for awhile, compounded by a recent divorce.  This place was a major comfort to me; a place to come where people knew who I was, where I could find understanding, reason, common sense and camaraderie.  I posted some 350 times on the old forum, most of which were just moronic rambling and venting.  But it was necessary for my peace of mind. 

 

Now I just visit here on occasion and rarely post, just because I've found other outlets, emotionally and psychologically - friends and relationships.  They are still out there and available - it just takes time.  Things have gone extremely well of late, and I have never considered returning to the faith or the church.  I was a healthy and whole person before I was a xian, and I am now becoming one even more so after deconverting.  Welcome and best wishes.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Hi Dio!

You know, I am so amazed at how this whole deconversion has left me feeling. I never thought a change in belief system could affect me this way, but it truly has.

 

I feel the same way about this forum....a true comfort!

Thanks!

 

Lisa

[Lanakila]

Panther,

 

I have been deconverted since November 2003 myself from Fundy Baptist ministers/chaplains wife for 18 years. This forum has helped me in numerous ways as an outlet, and in meeting others like me. Trying to figure out what you believe about things other than God after deconverting takes awhile. For example I was staunchly anti-abortion before deconversion, and was YEC, and a former member of Falwell's church. Studying these things out on my own, and doing some deep thinking has been quite an experience, and this place has helped.

 

Hugs to you for your hurt in losing your old Christian friends. I also lost most of mine. Mainly I just let them drop off my radar so as to avoid hurting them with the "horrible" truth of my lack of faith. Its hard to realize that those folks were really just acquaintances and not true friends or your lack of faith wouldn't hurt the friendship. I have one true friend that is still a Christian fundy, but loves me anyway and tells me that everytime I talk to her. But for the most part the same thing happened. Some left because I left my husband of 16 years to be honest. Like divorce and deconversion are contagious or something? WTF

 

Pm me if you need to talk anytime ok.

[Matthew]

Matthew,

I like how you said FREETHINKER....that;s a beautiful word, isn't it? 

 

I was so tied up with christianity that at this point, I need to find out exactly what Deist, agnostic, secular humanist all means....

with the old tunnel vision that I had...all I knew of prior were terms like

New Age, Pagen, Wiccan, etc.

 

With you, it seems like you went from chrisitanity to deist...which I believe means belief in God, just not the bible god..is that a correct assumption?

And then you moved toward agnostic...which I believe means no god? Am I right?

Then..secular humanist....got me on this one. Maybe you could explain if you wouldn't mind? 

 

This is also a fun way for me to get to know you guys better since this is my new home now. 

 

Lisa

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Not quite Lisa,

 

A Deist is someone who believes that a Creator exists but bases that belief upon reason and not revelation or faith. I came to declare myself an agnostic because I came to conclude that god-belief is unprovable either way. This is in contrast to my teen years where I thought god-belief was provable and apologetics provided the necessary proof to the intellectually honest. Agnosticism just means that you cannot be certain or that you lack certainty either way when it comes to the existence of gods. God(s) might exist but lack the scientific certainty we give to concepts like atoms, relativity, and cell biology. A secular humanist is someone who believes that the universe is all that there exists and so we should pool our resources in trying to better humanity and progress for humankind by the means of reason, science, democracy, and compassion. The emphasis is on humans rather than relying on gods to take care of us.

 

Matthew

[Panther]

Not quite Lisa,

 

A Deist is someone who believes that a Creator exists but bases that belief upon reason and not revelation or faith. I came to declare myself an agnostic because I came to conclude that god-belief is unprovable either way. This is in contrast to my teen years where I thought god-belief was provable and apologetics provided the necessary proof to the intellectually honest. Agnosticism just means that you cannot be certain or that you lack certainty either way when it comes to the existence of gods. God(s) might exist but lack the scientific certainty we give to concepts like atoms, relativity, and cell biology. A secular humanist is someone who believes that the universe is all that there exists and so we should pool our resources in trying to better humanity and progress for humankind by the means of reason, science, democracy, and compassion. The emphasis is on humans rather than relying on gods to take care of us.

 

  Matthew

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

 

Ahh~ That helps a lot. Those terms can truly be confusing and I betcha a lot of people misunderstand what they truly mean.

One more question....when you say a deist is based on reason...what kind of reasoning? Doesn't any belief in a god take some sort of faith?

Mulling this over in my mind.....

thanks again

[Panther]

Panther,

 

I have been deconverted since November 2003 myself from Fundy Baptist ministers/chaplains wife for 18 years.  This forum has helped me in numerous ways as an outlet, and in meeting others like me. Trying to figure out what you believe about things other than God after deconverting takes awhile. For example I was staunchly anti-abortion before deconversion, and was YEC, and a former member of Falwell's church. Studying these things out on my own, and doing some deep thinking has been quite an experience, and this place has helped.

 

Hugs to you for your hurt in losing your old Christian friends. I also lost most of mine. Mainly I just let them drop off my radar so as to avoid hurting them with the "horrible" truth of my lack of faith.  Its hard to realize that those folks were really just acquaintances and not true friends or your lack of faith wouldn't hurt the friendship. I have one true friend that is still a Christian fundy, but loves me anyway and tells me that everytime I talk to her. But for the most part the same thing happened. Some left because I left my husband of 16 years to be honest. Like divorce and deconversion are  contagious or something? WTF

 

Pm me if you need to talk anytime ok.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

 

Yep, sixteen years is a looong time, but I bet your life is SOOO different than years ago. Kinda like phase 2, huh? I betcha you feel much better too....more free I would imagine in all kinds of ways.

 

Yes, it IS tough.....I had certain beliefs PRIOR to christianity and of course, over time changed them to a more christian way. Here I am now, changing again, but I chalk it up to all being part of life.

It's funny when I meet people and they are so staunch in thier beliefs...and sometimes I chuckle thinking....they COULD change later.......

 

Thanks for listening and being there.

Please feel free to PM me as well if you would ever like to also~ I'd love to talk to you more as well!

I am so happy to be making my new "board" friends........I feel so much that this group of people are much more "real"....you know?

Take care!!

[Loren]

Lisa, it's nice to see a new member getting to feel so at home right away. It's even better to see her actually studying and thinking about what she reads, rather than just going straight to Rants with a lot of fun but unproductive venting with little growth. It's best of all to see her jump in on the site's main purpose of helping others who are coming out of Christianity.

 

Your spirit of helpfulness shows depth of character. It's great to see. Thank you.

 

Loren

[scitsofreaky]

One more question....when you say a deist is based on reason...what kind of reasoning? Doesn't any belief in a god take some sort of faith?

Yes, infact, any belief in god does take some faith. But, we put our faith in ourselves and what we have experienced.

What kind of reasoning? The kind we do with our brains, I guess.

Here is a quote that puts it well I think:

Without faith reason is cold... but without reason faith is blind

[Matthew]

Ahh~ That helps a lot. Those terms can truly be confusing and I betcha a lot of people misunderstand what they truly mean.

One more question....when you say a deist is based on reason...what kind of reasoning? Doesn't any belief in a god take some sort of faith?

Mulling this over in my mind.....

thanks again 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

When a Deist bases his/her belief in a Creator on reason, that essentially means that they turn to intellectual arguments rather than faith. In this case, a Creator becomes an explanatory inference in the same way that atoms were once an explanatory inference to explain why we observe what we do in terms of spectral physics or chemical bonding. I invoked a Creator because I wanted to believe that the universe was intelligently caused and that living organisms were directly designed by a Creator (even after I deconverted, I still found 'Darwinism' quite a stretch to believe. I wanted Paley's argument to be salvageable). I wanted the universe to have meaning and I wanted life to exist for a purpose. What's more, being based upon reason meant that it wasn't intellectual suicide like I felt that faith was making people do to their minds.

 

So when I say "reason" I mean critical thinking, rational analysis, and skeptical investigations. It wasn't easy to give up being a Deist but I came to realize that I had a far more emotional investment in Deism than an intellectual one and one day I realized that it was time to come clean and surrender to agnosticism. As much as I might like to be, I don't think I could honestly go back to being a Deist because I don't think that there is anything that could ever rationally justify such an inference. I hope this helps, and as always, I am very pleased to answer any more inquiries you might have!

 

Matthew

[Lizard]

Cool! A lot of replies! Thanks!

 

I just left christianity about a month or so ago.

 

Mostly, I am struggling with the disappointment of those "friends" that I thought would stand by my decision regardless of what I did.

They haven't and pretty much dumped me when I left christianity.

 

It doesn't really shock me or anything....I just didn't expect they could be so cruel.

Then, when I really thought about it, their belief system is one that allows them

to think that I am now "evil" LOL.

I've had christians that I was close to tell me that I am under the influence of Satan, that type of thing. 

 

I guess what does shock me more is that I was with that group for so long. I can't believe the brainwashing that I felt like was done to me.

 

Also, I guess I am kind of lost spiritually ..can't seem to figure out what I DO believe at this point.

 

When you have a belief system in place for yourself for SO long...as you get that moment of clarity and realize it was all false....it just kind of leaves you wondering where to go next or what to do I guess.

 

And I wasn't really meaning new to the foum exactly, rather new to leaving christianity.

Though, I appreciate all the responses, no matter how long it may have been for you...I feel as if every new ex christian probably goes through this, so if you all have any advice for me.....whether it's been a long time for you or just recent, I'd appreciate it.

 

Thanks!!! 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Hey Lisa..

This was my first issue the first time I left too. "friends" turned out not to be..no matter how hard I tried to show that I was still me. They treated me as though I had some fatal disease..and I guess to them, I did.

I went looking, but it was on the very first board that I posted about the desertion of friends.

I know we talked about this somewhat..earlier today..but, when I briefly returned..some of the "new" friends I made after deconverting then deserted me..which makes me really wonder about people..

A few have been there..through all of it. Accepting me, no matter what. Those, I cherish dearly. The same ones you hear from, as a matter of fact

I know that no matter what though..I have to accept me for me. After all, I have to live with me..and sometimes, even that is hard..

 

You have one who will remain your friend no matter what..no matter what you believe, no matter what I believe.

 

Beliefs change often..as we grow and learn. Part of that learning process sometimes requires that we go back and learn again why we are doing and believing what we are.

 

Trust yourself..and I say that both to you and to me. I need to hear it too..

Love to you, Lisa..through it all!

[Panther]

Lisa, it's nice to see a new member getting to feel so at home right away. It's even better to see her actually studying and thinking about what she reads, rather than just going straight to Rants with a lot of fun but unproductive venting with little growth. It's best of all to see her jump in on the site's main purpose of helping others who are coming out of Christianity.

 

Your spirit of helpfulness shows depth of character. It's great to see. Thank you.

 

Loren

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

 

Thank YOU Loren! There has been so much help and support here, it's wonderful. Thanks for your encouragement and for being a part in that! ((hugs))

[Guest Peyton]

I guess in a way I'm new. I still have the Christian meme within me and will continue to feel the pull, I'm sure of it. I've been around Ex-Christian forums for a while now but even though I know there's no sense in the Christ Cult, it still has its hold on me.

[scitsofreaky]

I guess in a way I'm new.  I still have the Christian meme within me and will continue to feel the pull, I'm sure of it.  I've been around Ex-Christian forums for a while now but even though I know there's no sense in the Christ Cult, it still has its hold on me.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

That is very understandable. Every now and then I get this weird feeling, like the guilt I used to feel while I was a christian, and makes me want to go back to church(ironic, isn't it?). But, the guilt helps me remember what it was like, which provides a good antidote.

[Guest Peyton]

I think sometimes I get lonely, freethinking is a solitary old business at times and wonder what it would be like to have a readymade family again and off I go to the church however it isn't long before I see church for what it is, an empty building with equally empty (in the main) people frequenting it.

[liquid ash]

Hello~

I left christianity just recently.

Anyone else here pretty new with the same issue?

If so, I would like to discuss NEW issues that have come up since.

 

OR

if anyone else would like to help me through this~

Thanks!

 

Lisa

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

 

Yep. Me too. I'm struggling with 'coming out' now. It's a very hard thing for me to do and probably is not a good idea right now, as much as I would like to. I probably need to settle into this more firmly before coming under siege of "caring and well meaning" family and friends.

[Panther]

I think sometimes I get lonely, freethinking is a solitary old business at times and wonder what it would be like to have a readymade family again and off I go to the church however it isn't long before I see church for what it is, an empty building with equally empty (in the main) people frequenting it.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

 

Peyton, I understand! I see you saying that you miss the "family" structure of the whole thing......maybe it is possible that is why you go back? I DO know what you mean....the nice warm feelings, etc.

I remember all that too, and then I remember coming out and having all that shatter. What caused me the most pain was discovering that so called "family" was ONLY there for me if I was a christian. They were actually mean to the point of rudeness when I left. I saw the "other side" of some of them and it sure wasn't pretty.

I have heard this same experience described over and over again by so many that I guess it's common. Sad, isn't it?

 

Just wanted to let you know that we're here for you!!!

[Panther]

Yep.  Me too.  I'm struggling with 'coming out' now.  It's a very hard thing for me to do and probably is not a good idea right now, as much as I would like to.  I probably need to settle into this more firmly before coming under siege of "caring and well meaning" family and friends.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

 

I DO understand what you mean...you're in the perfect place to share about where you're at, voice your concerns. I never imagined how deep the healing process could run until I was there.

((hugs))

[liquid ash]

I DO understand what you mean...you're in the perfect place to share about where you're at, voice your concerns. I never imagined how deep the healing process could run until I was there.

((hugs))

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Thanks. I keep wondering where I can meet people who won't be offended by this. Nearly everyone I know are Christians. [i mean people in the flesh and not online.]

[Lens]

From what I can tell so far, am I right in thinking that most people here have gone from christianity to athiest? (not all of course, but it seems like a lot anyway)

Can anyone tell me why this seems to be mainstream?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Hey,

 

I have really just come to grips with my non-belief within the last few years, though I haven't really believed in decades. Anyway, I just wanted to attempt an answer to your question about going from xtian to atheist.

 

For me, once I opened my mind to the ridiculous nature of xianity I really felt as though I should fill the void it left with some other 'religion'. I did some not-so-serious research and found that all of the religions are pretty silly when you get right down to it. They all deny our natural human state in some way or another, probably none more than xianity.

 

I think that if you are a truly rational person, that atheism is going to be the natural conclusion to your journey because if you apply the same critical thinking to all religions that you do to xianity, they all will fall short of reason.

 

I am happier now than I have ever been in my life and am a better person than I ever was as a xian and I am an out of the closet full blown ATHEIST!

 

The journey is a little tough sometimes but it is worth it.

[Christopher Carrion]

I'm one of those fortunate enough to have been raised in a largely secular household, and so have never experienced Christianity as anything other than something academically, philosophically and humanistically offensive. My advice would be to abandon the notion of "belief"; you don't need to adhere to some abstract ideology of perception, behaviour and self-definition in order to legitimately qualify as human. Merely analyse objectively what you experience, and arrive at opinions based upon your analyses. And always remain protean in those perspectives; never fixed. There is always more than you know, factors that are not immediately apparent of which you might learn later. This is how I live my life, and despite my constant bitching I'm actually quite a contented soul in and of myself; it's other people who usually fuck me off.