The Law in the Garden

[WalterP]

2 hours ago, Edgarcito said:

Sure it does.  If a person chooses to procreate then they are introducing a child to circumstances that can kill them.  Are these people automatically evil?  And I don’t see much difference describing raising the human race vs describing an individual.  Probably more accurate describing the former.  Vast’s statement seems reasonable....

 

Once again you're trying to excuse god first and not actually reading what scripture says, Edgarcito.

 

Go and read how god cursed Eve.

 

Genesis 3 : 16 

 

16 To the woman he said,

“I will make your pains in childbearing very severe;
    with painful labour you will give birth to children.
Your desire will be for your husband,
    and he will rule over you.”

 

See that?

 

God cursed Eve (and every woman since) with sexual desire for the male of the species.

 

So, if a woman chooses to procreate and introduce a child to circumstances that can kill them, then they are only doing so because god changed them genetically.

 

Who is to blame here?

 

All women for acting according to their god-ordained natures?

 

Or the one with all the power, who fucked Adam and Eve over, over and over again?

 

You can try and spin this any way you want to try and absolve god of the blame Edgarcito, but he is damned by the very words of his book.

 

 

 

Walter.

 

 

[LogicalFallacy]

On 3/27/2021 at 2:41 PM, midniterider said:

 

Hell is eternal life, is it not?

 

 

 

I have pondered this question. If you are tortured for eternity you still get to live for eternity so... yay?

 

Also I think at some point of eternal existence all existence will be torture. 

[midniterider]

50 minutes ago, LogicalFallacy said:

 

I have pondered this question. If you are tortured for eternity you still get to live for eternity so... yay?

 

Also I think at some point of eternal existence all existence will be torture. 

 

Hands clasped together for Jesus forever? Yikes.

[midniterider]

If Bob Marley turned out to be the Son of God wouldn't that be nice.

 

"I smoke two joints for my savior...."

[WalterP]

Edgarcito,

 

Now that I've shown you how god inflicted sexual desire on Eve and all women, what do we see elsewhere in the bible?

 

Yep!  Its ALWAYS the women who are at fault for defiling men with their carnal desires.

 

 

Revelation 14 : 1 - 5.

 

 Then I looked, and there before me was the Lamb, standing on Mount Zion, and with him 144,000 who had his name and his Father’s name written on their foreheads. 

2 And I heard a sound from heaven like the roar of rushing waters and like a loud peal of thunder. The sound I heard was like that of harpists playing their harps. 

3 And they sang a new song before the throne and before the four living creatures and the elders. No one could learn the song except the 144,000 who had been redeemed from the earth. 

4 These are those who did not defile themselves with women, for they remained virgins. They follow the Lamb wherever he goes. They were purchased from among mankind and offered as firstfruits to God and the Lamb. 

5 No lie was found in their mouths; they are blameless.

 

See that?

 

The 144,000 virgin men who had not defiled themselves with the carnal knowledge of women are blameless.

 

God's holy word equates women with filthiness and lies.

 

But who was it who first caused women to have sexual desires in the first place?

 

Was it Adam?  Was it the serpent?  Was it the fruit of the tree?  Was it the tree itself?

 

Care to answer the question, Edgarcito?

 

 

Walter.

 

[v__a__s__t]

11 hours ago, midniterider said:

 

I should say "dont eat the treats" to my dog. And 'stay away from the rattlesnake'. 

 

and go out and catch some rattlesnakes to make the antivenom formula from.  and keep it around where you can remember where it is.  and if he ever needs it, however many times he needs it, or it will work, use it to help him.  while at the same time trying to limit where he goes and does through a number of obstacles and enclosures, and verbal commands and daily training exercises so that he doesn't get himself into too much trouble or hurt badly by his behaviour.

 

[TheRedneckProfessor]

@v__a__s__t, have you ever considered writing posts that make sense?

[florduh]

48 minutes ago, TheRedneckProfessor said:

@v__a__s__t, have you ever considered writing posts that make sense?

Aww, don't ruin the fun!

[Edgarcito]

12 hours ago, Weezer said:

 

And it is not just a momentary burn that will heal.  

Dude, in this scenario, that of the OP, the argument at hand, after 3 rounds of "this will kill you", "here are the rules", and "here is Grace" for your actions,  ROUND 4, is YOU CHOOSING the consequence.

 

You get that, right???

[Edgarcito]

1 hour ago, TheRedneckProfessor said:

@v__a__s__t, have you ever considered writing posts that make sense?

vast is right....Mid says that normal parents go around in constant protection of their children.  We in the abby-normal parenting club think this detrimental to our chillins.  But whatever, if he needs to use it for a defense...

 

I'm not a child raising expert, but freedom, personal achievement, self-worth.....all things that come to mind that might lend themselves  towards happiness.  Not, Dad followed me around making sure my butt didn't hurt.

 

 

[midniterider]

4 minutes ago, Edgarcito said:

vast is right....Mid says that normal parents go around in constant protection of their children.  We in the abby-normal parenting club think this detrimental to our chillins.  But whatever, if he needs to use it for a defense...

 

I'm not a child raising expert, but freedom, personal achievement, self-worth.....all things that come to mind that might lend themselves  towards happiness.  Not, Dad followed me around making sure my butt didn't hurt.

 

 

 

Ed never had a toddler. 

 

As your child gets older they get more freedom because they know more. An older child can use the stove without assistance. 

 

Maybe God should have cut Adam some slack, given him some freedom, allow a sense of achievement and self worth as he ate the fruit that gave him ....omfg....Knowledge!

 

What a dumb story. 

 

But I guess it does square with religion in general. Pastors would rather you not think on your own. Knowledge destroys faith. So do what da Bible says!

 

 

[Edgarcito]

7 minutes ago, midniterider said:

 

Ed never had a toddler. 

 

As your child gets older they get more freedom because they know more. An older child can use the stove without assistance. 

 

Maybe God should have cut Adam some slack, given him some freedom, allow a sense of achievement and self worth as he ate the fruit that gave him ....omfg....Knowledge!

 

What a dumb story. 

 

But I guess it does square with religion in general. Pastors would rather you not think on your own. Knowledge destroys faith. So do what da Bible says!

 

 

No, it makes rather good sense in light of raising humanity in general.....you know, by this time you should be eating meat rather than milk.  Adam was the toddler(dont' touch that), Israel was the teen (here are the rules), and the church is the adult (your choice).  

 

But you did it differently with your "humanity", your children....I'm certain you didn't.

[WalterP]

1 hour ago, Edgarcito said:

Dude, in this scenario, that of the OP, the argument at hand, after 3 rounds of "this will kill you", "here are the rules", and "here is Grace" for your actions,  ROUND 4, is YOU CHOOSING the consequence.

 

You get that, right???

 

Which is something Adam and Eve couldn't do.

 

To choose a consequence you have to understand what the consequences are.

 

But neither of them understood what the consequence of death was.

 

So, god's warning of the consequences of disobedience was meaningless to them.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[midniterider]

Adam: The sky voice said don't eat it.

Eve: The slithery thing said eat it.

Adam: If only we had 'knowledge', that would help us decide to follow the sky voice or the slithery thing.

Eve: Yeah. Nom Nom.

[midniterider]

God just didnt want Adam to eat the fruit and discover that God was evil.

[Edgarcito]

9 minutes ago, midniterider said:

God just didnt want Adam to eat the fruit and discover that God was evil.

Isn't that all we have....

[WalterP]

1 hour ago, Edgarcito said:

No, it makes rather good sense in light of raising humanity in general.....you know, by this time you should be eating meat rather than milk.  Adam was the toddler(dont' touch that), Israel was the teen (here are the rules), and the church is the adult (your choice).  

 

But you did it differently with your "humanity", your children....I'm certain you didn't.

 

It's wrong to compare Adam or Eve to our human children.

 

They weren't human as we are human.

 

They didn't spend 9 months in a mothers womb, as human children do.

 

They didn't bond with their parents in their first weeks and months of life, as human children can do.

 

Adam was made from the soil of the earth and not the sperm and egg of human parents.

 

Eve was made from one of Adam's ribs and not from the sperm and egg of human parents.

 

They were made without an inner moral compass and had no hope of acquiring one through experience.

 

Eve's capacity for sexual desire was forced upon her by god, not as a gift but as a curse.

 

In many important ways they don't qualify as bona fide human beings.

 

So, using human children as examples to illustrate what happened in Eden is a big mistake.

 

 

Thank you.

 

Walter.

 

 

[florduh]

29 minutes ago, WalterP said:

It's wrong to compare Adam or Eve to our human children.

 

They weren't human as we are human.

 

They didn't spend 9 months in a mothers womb, as human children do.

 

They didn't bond with their parents in their first weeks and months of life, as human children can do.

 

Adam was made from the soil of the earth and not the sperm and egg of human parents.

 

Eve was made from one of Adam's ribs and not from the sperm and egg of human parents.

 

They were made without an inner moral compass and had no hope of acquiring one through experience.

 

Eve's capacity for sexual desire was forced upon her by god, not as a gift but as a curse.

 

In many important ways they don't qualify as bona fide human beings.

 

So, using human children as examples to illustrate what happened in Eden is a big mistake.

 

Yes, one might as well compare a human child to Ares, Eros, Phobos or any of the other offspring found in mythology.

 

[WalterP]

Hello again Edgarcito. 

 

 

I was wondering if you have any more unbiblical guesses, speculations or musings that I can smash into little pieces?

 

I'm always keen to help out and I have the most powerful weapon of counter apologetics at my disposal to help with.

 

What the bible actually says.

 

 

Oh btw, you recall that I asked which book you were reading about Eden?

 

Because it seemed like you and I were looking at two totally different versions of the narrative?

 

Well, I think I've figured out that you must be reading the ESRV bible.

 

Is that right?

 

 

Thank you.

 

Walter.

[v__a__s__t]

8 hours ago, florduh said:

Aww, don't ruin the fun!

House. 

[v__a__s__t]

9 hours ago, TheRedneckProfessor said:

@v__a__s__t, have you ever considered writing posts that make sense?

conformity

 

conformity

 noun

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con·for·mi·ty | \ kən-ˈfȯr-mə-tē  \

plural conformities

Definition of conformity

 

1: correspondence in form, manner, or character : AGREEMENTbehaved in conformity with her beliefs

2: an act or instance of conformingher conformity with the latest fashions

3: action in accordance with some specified standard or authorityconformity to social customconformity with the federal law and state insurance codes

[Edgarcito]

1 hour ago, WalterP said:

Hello again Edgarcito. 

 

 

I was wondering if you have any more unbiblical guesses, speculations or musings that I can smash into little pieces?

 

I'm always keen to help out and I have the most powerful weapon of counter apologetics at my disposal to help with.

 

What the bible actually says.

 

 

Oh btw, you recall that I asked which book you were reading about Eden?

 

Because it seemed like you and I were looking at two totally different versions of the narrative?

 

Well, I think I've figured out that you must be reading the ESRV bible.

 

Is that right?

 

 

Thank you.

 

Walter.

I'm sorry you can't just have a discourse Walter without having to smash other considerations  to pieces.  There are several things you and I could probably discuss in earnest.  I took you off mute....and that's a start.  Just over the table discussion is fun for me.  If you level of hurt doesn't allow that, it's ok.  Maybe sometime in the future.

 

Thanks.  

[◊ Krowb ◊]

9 hours ago, Edgarcito said:

Adam was the toddler(dont' touch that), Israel was the teen (here are the rules), and the church is the adult (your choice)

 

What happened at death to all the non-Israelites in the "teen years"?  The Jewish culture wasn't too concerned with spreading their gospel, I mean, Yahweh was THEIR god, not the god of heathens.  Most of human history has still occurred pre-Christianity.  Are all the Native Americans, Europeans, Africans, Asians, and Australians all writhing in eternal punishment for failing to be aware of Yahweh and following his law? - What about all those slaughtered in the Old Testament?  OT god (and the indivisible Word by extension) evidence no desire for a great commission.

 

What a strange reality where my default eternal fate may be determined by the timing of my death.

[midniterider]

29 minutes ago, Krowb said:

What a strange reality where my default eternal fate may be determined by the timing of my death.

 

Sounds like a fabrication. 

[v__a__s__t]

3 hours ago, Edgarcito said:

I'm sorry you can't just have a discourse Walter without having to smash other considerations  to pieces. 

 

8We are pressured in every way [hedged in], but not crushed; perplexed [unsure of finding a way out], but not driven to despair; 9hunted down and persecuted, but not deserted [to stand alone]; struck down, but never destroyed;