A constructive discussion

[RankStranger]

44 minutes ago, DarkBishop said:

@RankStranger

 

It says you've been in the forum since last year. 

 

 

Ok, thanks.  I just kinda assumed  wasn't allowed in there.

[TheRedneckProfessor]

10 minutes ago, RankStranger said:

That doesn't go back nearly far enough, but thanks for checking.

Do you know what year he posted it?  Or the title?  Or which forum he posted it in?  Or anything else that might be searchable?

[RankStranger]

You're picking my brain on something I read a decade ago.  If I remember correctly, there was a major software upgrade on this forum maybe around 2004 or 2005.  I suspect the thread was posted before that.  All I can tell you for sure is that the author was Loren, that it was pinned at the top of the Lion's Den, and it was still there in 2013.  I don't really remember much else.

[TheRedneckProfessor]

Here is every post in which Loren used the term "christian".

 

https://www.ex-christian.net/search/?&q=Christian &author=Loren&search_and_or=or

[RankStranger]

Still not finding it.  Maybe I imagined the whole thing.

[☆ DarkBishop ☆]

13 minutes ago, RankStranger said:

Still not finding it.  Maybe I imagined the whole thing.

Nah probably not. I had a whole mock debate with LB in the lions den when I first deconverted that is no longer there. I think some posts got lost at some point. 

 

Possibly during updates er something i dunno.

[TheRedneckProfessor]

28 minutes ago, RankStranger said:

Still not finding it.  Maybe I imagined the whole thing.

 

15 minutes ago, DarkBishop said:

Nah probably not. I had a whole mock debate with LB in the lions den when I first deconverted that is no longer there. I think some posts got lost at some point. 

 

Possibly during updates er something i dunno.

Here is the very last page of The Lion's Den.  It goes back to 2005.  Maybe start here and work your way forward.

 

https://www.ex-christian.net/forum/6-the-lions-den/page/181/

[TheRedneckProfessor]

Also, have you tried turning your phone sideways?  I just recently learned that doing so opens up a whole new world of possibilities. 

[TheRedneckProfessor]

Loren joined the website in April of 2005.  The post had to have been made sometime after that.

[☆ DarkBishop ☆]

2 hours ago, TheRedneckProfessor said:

 

Here is the very last page of The Lion's Den.  It goes back to 2005.  Maybe start here and work your way forward.

 

https://www.ex-christian.net/forum/6-the-lions-den/page/181/

Nope its gone. Since L.B. hasn't been very active since I've been here other than those first two years i was able to look up his content. The thread that led to the debate is there but the debate itself is absent in his content. If you remember I was playing (Christian "devils" advocate) and he kinda dropped off for a bit. I think he started having relationship issues or something. Can't remember. So I ended up debunking my own argument for the bible because I didn't want lurkers to think I had beat him in the debate. So it was a pretty shitty debate. Maybe thats why it got deleted. Or maybe he started the debate and decided to delete it. Either way its gone. No biggie. I just noticed because I was trying to remember what we were debating about. And couldn't find it. 

 

DB

[RankStranger]

2 hours ago, TheRedneckProfessor said:

Loren joined the website in April of 2005.  The post had to have been made sometime after that.

 

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think the database only goes back to 2005.  Because there was some kind of change in board software at that time.  This forum existed long before 2005.  I don't know when Dave started it, but I know I had found this place by 2003.  

 

[TheRedneckProfessor]

[midniterider]

19 hours ago, RankStranger said:

I promised a constructive discussion, and I'm going to do that if I can.  I'm going to organize this for clarity, but I don't mean for this to come across as an indictment.  That's not why I'm here.

 

First I'd like to make a few apologies.  They're owed, in some cases for a long time.

 

1.  I'd like to apologize to Antlerman, although I think he's long gone.  Yes we disagree, but it was shitty of me to impugn his character over a disagreement.  I don't really know him at all, and really have nothing against the guy.  Sorry Antlerman.  I know you were just modding, and I'm sorry I turned my autistic rage in your direction.  I know it's a problem, and you weren't wrong about everything.

2.  I'd like to apologize to The Professor.  I said some unwarranted things about your friends, and you've responded appropriately.  I owe you some explanations.  

3.  I'd like to apologize to Dave, and really to the whole forum.  I've been an ass at times... at a lot of times.  And I've played my part in resulting problems.  I shouldn't have said that the administration of the Lion's Den was idiotic.  This is just a disagreement, and I know Dave has good reasons for a lot of the changes that have been made. 

4.  If I suck and you need me to know that, that's ok.  There's a pretty good chance that we'll agree... depending on the specifics.

5.  I'm sorta sorry I made such a big deal about the 'like' button.  It illustrates a point, but I could've been more... constructive.  I'm not really upset about the like button, but I sometimes I like to like things that I like.

6.  I'm prepared to make additional apologies if necessary.  But I'm done for now.

 

Some of you may wonder why I want to be here at all, now that I'm a Christian.  We can get to the details in time, but the fact is that I'm not a fundamentalist.  I can't un-know what I know, and what kind of Christian would I be if I didn't have at least some understanding of the history and content of the Bible?  ExChristians have taught me a lot about the bible.  I think this site does valuable work in un-tying the knots of fundamentalism.   Deconversion isn't something that I'm concerned with.  I may owe Edgar an explanation on that one, but I have reasons.

 

Ultimately I'm here for a discussion with people who are honest and willing to call bullshit where they see it.  I've rarely found that on any other forum- not like here.  Obviously I'm here to discuss religion, but I'd like to talk about other stuff too.  I like free-range discussion.  So personally, in this thread and this thread only, I would prefer that nobody stay on topic unless they feel like it.  I would prefer that people get off topic and derail the thread whenever they can.  But I understand that this is Dave's house, so enforce as you must.  I won't piss on the floor if I can help it.

 

I also understand that politics are not to be discussed 'outside'.  I understand the reasons for that, and I don't plan to violate that rule unless a mod tells me I can get away with it.  But I sure would like to read some ExChristians' opinions on recent Supreme Court decisions, if that could be done in a way that doesn't burn the forum down.  Some civilized debate would be awesome, but I understand that that's a challenge, and that political debates got way out of hand in the past.

 

I wonder how Burnedout is doing.  I would really enjoy arguing with him again.  Elsewhere if necessary.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Supreme Court justices aren't politicans....so fuck those people! All of em! haha

 

Have you been accused by anyone anywhere of the reverse special pleading argument that says you were never a TRUE atheist/agnostic/ex-believer if you went back to Christianity? That's always a fun one. Also what are your thoughts on "not being able to choose what you believe." Is that true for you? I'm sure that if I really really wanted to go back to Jesus, I could. For me it's a choice. I just dont see that happening, though. No interest. These are genuine interest questions, not debate starters. 

[midniterider]

35 minutes ago, TheRedneckProfessor said:

 

I love his avatar. 

[RankStranger]

11 hours ago, TheRedneckProfessor said:

 

Does it show any member that joined before 2005?

 

It shows that I joined in 2005.  Because the database only goes back to 2005.

[mwc]

20 hours ago, TheRedneckProfessor said:

It seems to me that the world didn't really start plunging into chaos until right after Hostess announced they would no longer be manufacturing Twinkies.  Not saying there is definite causation there; but the correlation certainly warrants further consideration. 

     The preservatives were so strong they preserved more than the Twinkie itself.  Twinkies preserved the universe.

 

          mwc

 

[RankStranger]

11 hours ago, midniterider said:

 

Have you been accused by anyone anywhere of the reverse special pleading argument that says you were never a TRUE atheist/agnostic/ex-believer if you went back to Christianity? That's always a fun one.

 

No, nobody has said that to me directly, although I feel like it's been implied a couple of times.  And that's fine with me.  I'm open about what I believe, and I don't need to prove it to anybody.  My actions speak for themselves.

 

 

 

Quote

Also what are your thoughts on "not being able to choose what you believe." Is that true for you? I'm sure that if I really really wanted to go back to Jesus, I could. For me it's a choice. I just dont see that happening, though. No interest. These are genuine interest questions, not debate starters. 

 

That's a complicate subject.  All my life, since I was old enough to have an opinion on such things, I've always believed that belief is not a choice.  You can't just decide to believe a thing that you know isn't true... not honestly.  And if a belief isn't honest, is it even a belief at all?  Or is it something else that's just being called a belief?

 

My return to Christianity... I don't exactly consider it a re-conversion.  I don't necessarily even consider it a change in belief, odd as that might seem since I considered myself a non-believer for over 30 years.  It's more like I fucked around and found out some things about what I believe.  It's a change in my awareness of what I believe.

 

I used to think I was unable to believe in something that I didn't find logical.  Now I have serious doubts about the nature of what we call logic.  And don't get me wrong- I'm all about logic.  It's an indispensable tool for solving all kinds of problems.  But it's near useless in some areas of life.

 

 

 

 

[TABA]

11 hours ago, midniterider said:

Have you been accused by anyone anywhere of the reverse special pleading argument that says you were never a TRUE atheist/agnostic/ex-believer if you went back to Christianity?

 

 

9 minutes ago, RankStranger said:

No, nobody has said that to me directly, although I feel like it's been implied a couple of times.

I think the question is not so much “was RS ever a real non-believer?”.  It seems clear he was an atheist for a long time.  But rather, “In what sense is he now a Christian?”   And I think that Rank would acknowledge that is a valid question.  Plenty of believers would acknowledge him as one of their number.  Plenty of others would not.  

[TheRedneckProfessor]

34 minutes ago, RankStranger said:

 

Does it show any member that joined before 2005?

 

It shows that I joined in 2005.  Because the database only goes back to 2005.

You might be right.

[RankStranger]

1 minute ago, TABA said:

 

 

I think the question is not so much “was RS ever a real non-believer?”.  It seems clear he was an atheist for a long time.  But rather, “In what sense is he now a Christian?”   And I think that Rank would acknowledge that is a valid question.  Plenty of believers would acknowledge him as one of their number.  Plenty of others would not.  

 

I like this post 

[☆ DarkBishop ☆]

16 minutes ago, RankStranger said:

 

I like this post 

I think your new take on Christianity is pretty cool. I think either Buddhist ☸ Christianity . Or zen Christianity are good terms. 

 

DB

[RankStranger]

28 minutes ago, DarkBishop said:

I think your new take on Christianity is pretty cool. I think either Buddhist ☸ Christianity . Or zen Christianity are good terms. 

 

DB

 

Thanks DB.

 

I only know some basics about Buddhism.  I think they have a lot of useful ways of looking at things, and lots of good ideas about meditation.  It's never resonated with me as a religion though.  To my Western self, it seems more like philosophy with strange and interesting ideas.

 

I think Daoism has made a bigger impact on me.  Not that I'm knowledgeable about it at all.  But I've listened to the Tao Te Ching several times via audio book and I really like the way they look at the world.  Honestly it helped me imagine what God could possibly be like.  I'm sure plenty of Christians would object to that, but that's not my problem.

 

If God really is OmniMax, if he really is pervasive and present throughout existence... then he created and is part of Daoism.  IMO.  And all the other religions.

 

You might say I'm a practicing Christian with core beliefs that are close to Deism.  

[midniterider]

1 hour ago, RankStranger said:

 

No, nobody has said that to me directly, although I feel like it's been implied a couple of times.  And that's fine with me.  I'm open about what I believe, and I don't need to prove it to anybody.  My actions speak for themselves.

 

 

 

 

That's a complicate subject.  All my life, since I was old enough to have an opinion on such things, I've always believed that belief is not a choice.  You can't just decide to believe a thing that you know isn't true... not honestly.  And if a belief isn't honest, is it even a belief at all?  Or is it something else that's just being called a belief?

 

My return to Christianity... I don't exactly consider it a re-conversion.  I don't necessarily even consider it a change in belief, odd as that might seem since I considered myself a non-believer for over 30 years.  It's more like I fucked around and found out some things about what I believe.  It's a change in my awareness of what I believe.

 

I used to think I was unable to believe in something that I didn't find logical.  Now I have serious doubts about the nature of what we call logic.  And don't get me wrong- I'm all about logic.  It's an indispensable tool for solving all kinds of problems.  But it's near useless in some areas of life.

 

 

 

 

 

Right. Logic is a tool but not my foundation of life. 

 

In any case , think and do whatever makes you happy.

[RankStranger]

On 7/6/2023 at 10:15 AM, midniterider said:

 

Right. Logic is a tool but not my foundation of life. 

 

In any case , think and do whatever makes you happy.

 

Thanks, and it has 

 

In ways I previously thought weren't possible.

[◊ Weezer ◊]

And there are "Christians" who believe the old testament should have never been tacked onto the Writings of the followers of Jesus.  That the OT god is not the real God.    Multiple choices.