A constructive discussion

[pantheory]

15 hours ago, Edgarcito said:

Was just an attempt at humor F.  They allowed me in that subforum, just haven't participated.  Too old and set to change much.  I did watch Oppenheimer the other day.... thought about you and your pursuit.  Hope all is well sir.

 

Thanks so much Edgarcito,

 

I too saw Oppenheimer. I knew little of his life before the movie. I thought the movie was very well done as well as the acting. The movie was a little too racy (sexy) for my grandson but they let him in anyway. Wish I was that "lucky" at his age 12. Also hope that all is well with you.

 

Unlike most folks here I had no problem with religions. None of my family have had a problem with religion. Religions were more like Santa Clause and the Easter Bunny to me. They just made no sense to me at a young age, but I liked listening to the preacher and hunting for Easter Eggs at age 5, and I also prayed up to maybe the age of 14. I still like listening to some preachers that have a practical message like  goodwill toward all mankind -- like the good Samaritan story in the Bible for instance.

 

I wish all the best for you also Ed.

[RankStranger]

15 hours ago, Weezer said:

 

I believe we are on differnt wave lengths.

 

I am NOT saying your beliefs are inauthentic!!  I am saying that attaching the word to christian is misleading.  In my thinking, with the thousands of christian beliefs, there is no such thing as an "authentic" christian.  No one has definded what that is.

 

 

 

Fair enough.  Sorry I misunderstood you.  I think we've been talking past each other.

 

This "Authentic Christian Believer" tag- I've always seen it as an ironic thing.  A label applied to jackass Christians who routinely claim that their own take on Christianity is the One True Authentic Salvation.  I've also been under the impression that this is how most X-Christians perceive most Christians... as this 'ACB' tag has been applied to most every Christian who has stuck around here.

 

Could be that my impression is wrong.

[TABA]

16 minutes ago, RankStranger said:

This "Authentic Christian Believer" tag- I've always seen it as an ironic thing.  A label applied to jackass Christians who routinely claim that their own take on Christianity is the One True Authentic Salvation.  I've also been under the impression that this is how most X-Christians perceive most Christians... as this 'ACB' tag has been applied to most every Christian who has stuck around here.

 

Although it's not within my powers as a regular mod, I am sure @TheRedneckProfessor will change your badge to something else if you don't like it.  I thought you wanted that badge...

[RankStranger]

21 minutes ago, TABA said:

 

Although it's not within my powers as a regular mod, I am sure @TheRedneckProfessor will change your badge to something else if you don't like it.  I thought you wanted that badge...

 

No, I'm good with it.  But it's apparently caused Weezer and I to misunderstand each other.

[◊ Weezer ◊]

My guess is that the ACB tag was added with sarcasm in mind.  Not just with you in mind, but overall.

[RankStranger]

38 minutes ago, Weezer said:

My guess is that the ACB tag was added with sarcasm in mind.  Not just with you in mind, but overall.

 

Yeah, and nothing wrong with that.  And I chose it somewhat ironically myself, mostly in solidarity with my fellow Christians like Ed... who I often don't understand either but I think he's a good guy.  But we do have one thing in common:

 

 

 

[RankStranger]

22 hours ago, Krowb said:

following on @Hierophant's train of thought, what is the reason to adopt and then defend the label "Christian"?  Christian is such a crazy loose term, it includes Mormons, JWs, CoC, Coptic, Eastern Orthodox, Pre-Vatican II Catholics, among thousands of others.

 

You indicate you feel some kind of connection . .  . with something and you call that thing God.  Why take the extra steps and overlay "Christian" on top of it?  Is there some kind of theological or liturgical reason we're missing?  I understand it feels comfortable because that is the religion of your youth, but other than familiarity, is there is anything in your belief that could only be grafted onto Christianity as opposed to another religion or belief system?

 

Mainly because it's true.  That I'm a Christian.

[◊ Krowb ◊]

And that's your perogative.

 

Just thought maybe we missed something in your belief structure that would've necessitated that label versus others.  Plenty of people are spiritual w/o the baggage that Christianity tends to bring to the table.

[◊ Weezer ◊]

47 minutes ago, RankStranger said:

 

Mainly because it's true.  That I'm a Christian.

Is it the more liberal christian idea of enriching society by respecting all humans that you are attracted to?

[RankStranger]

31 minutes ago, Krowb said:

And that's your perogative.

 

Just thought maybe we missed something in your belief structure that would've necessitated that label versus others.  Plenty of people are spiritual w/o the baggage that Christianity tends to bring to the table.

 

I no longer want to be separate from the baggage.  I have doubts that any of us really can be.

 

 

18 minutes ago, Weezer said:

Is it the more liberal christian idea of enriching society by respecting all humans that you are attracted to?

 

I'm not sure what you're getting at.  Is this a reference to something?  I try to respect even humans that I'm not attracted to.

[◊ Krowb ◊]

30 minutes ago, RankStranger said:

I no longer want to be separate from the baggage.  I have doubts that any of us really can be.

 

I agree that we cannot change our formative experience and the culture in which we were raised, but we can decide what to emphasize and what to leave behind.  We are more than where we're from.

 

 

[TABA]

Rank, I made your Foul Godling signature line a bit more prominent.  Seemed like it deserved better visibility.  Let me know if that's not OK.  I think you can edit it yourself anyhow...

[RankStranger]

7 minutes ago, Krowb said:

 

I agree that we cannot change our formative experience and the culture in which we were raised, but we can decide what to emphasize and what to leave behind.  We are more than where we're from.

 

 

 

Agreed.  And that's all true even as a Christian.

 

 

5 minutes ago, TABA said:

Rank, I made your Foul Godling signature line a bit more prominent.  Seemed like it deserved better visibility.  Let me know if that's not OK.  I think you can edit it yourself anyhow...

 

I like this post.

[RankStranger]

9 hours ago, TABA said:

 

Do you recall saying the following just a few months ago when you were still an ex-christian?

 

You know what they say about finger-pointing.  So maybe this would be a good time to de-escalate.  Thanks.

 

 

 

Thanks for pointing out that thread.  I've gone back and set that dipshit straight 

[◊ Weezer ◊]

1 hour ago, RankStranger said:

 

I'm not sure what you're getting at.  Is this a reference to something?  I try to respect even humans that I'm not attracted to.

 

I am not referencing to anything.  I am curious.  What is it about christianity that attracts you?  There must be something about it that draws you to it.  Something you believe in, and feel that it is important.  Or perhaps you are like me.  I came to Jesus to avoid hell.   In other words, why are you a christian?    How did you come to the conclusion to go back to it?

 

If you are uncomfortable answering those questions, just say so, and that will be the end of my questioning about this subject.

[RankStranger]

First of all I would like to thank all of you for every thread derail.  It is very much appreciated, especially from people with bad habits like staying on topic.

 

And Weezer, again sorry I let an accusation fly before understanding your point.  Apparently I find questions about salvation and the nature of belief a bit triggering.  I should've seen that coming.

 

 

[◊ Weezer ◊]

15 minutes ago, RankStranger said:

 

And Weezer, again sorry I let an accusation fly before understanding your point.  

 

Hey, I have done similar things.  HA!  Just ask my wife.

 

17 minutes ago, RankStranger said:

 

Apparently I find questions about salvation and the nature of belief a bit triggering.  I should've seen that coming.

 

I can see how thinking about God, and being trapped by him (as you described him on the thread in the Lions Den) could be very triggering.  

[◊ Weezer ◊]

By the way.  It took a while for me to get the significance of the above picture of Jesus with the red cap, but I like that.

[RankStranger]

5 hours ago, Krowb said:

And that's your perogative.

 

Just thought maybe we missed something in your belief structure that would've necessitated that label versus others.  Plenty of people are spiritual w/o the baggage that Christianity tends to bring to the table.

 

3 hours ago, Weezer said:

I am not referencing to anything.  I am curious.  What is it about christianity that attracts you?  There must be something about it that draws you to it.  Something you believe in, and feel that it is important.  Or perhaps you are like me.  I came to Jesus to avoid hell.   In other words, why are you a christian?    How did you come to the conclusion to go back to it?

 

If you are uncomfortable answering those questions, just say so, and that will be the end of my questioning about this subject.

 

Krowb, I think you and Weezer are wondering a lot of the same things.  So am I.  I'm not sure if any of my beliefs have factually changed.  But something has changed. 

 

Anybody remember those threads we used to have around here where people would go for pages debating and ascribing the meanings of 'theist' vs. 'agnostic' vs. 'weak atheist' vs. 'strong atheist', and probably lots of divisions and nuances in between?  The human mind on an autistic bender is a an awe-ful thing to behold.  Since those days I've glimpsed the forbidden knowledge of vast Excel spreadsheets you'd have to see to believe.  Hundreds of sheets- thousands of cells per sheet.  Built by nerds you'd have to meet to believe.  I think we all got tired of those autistic discussions eventually, but I still have a soft spot for theology.  Even X-theology 

 

I called myself an Atheist for over 30 years, simply because it was it was the most honest convenient description.  Really nothing more to it than that... or so I told myself at the time.*  But if I were to be pedantic** about it, I was always technically a 'weak atheist', per X-C theology.  But what edge-lord wants to be a weak Atheist?  So I was simply an Atheist.  Or an atheist, didn't care much.  Point is, that the position of 'weak atheism' as I understand it, makes no particular claim on the existence or non existence of God.  It's basically saying that you see no reason to believe that God is real and have concluded that God isn't real... as opposed to the 'strong atheist' position saying that you 'know' God isn't real.  I never understood why theology mattered to people... these days I get it.

 

I saw no reason to believe that God could possibly be real in any way.  Now I do.  Those reasons are rather personal, but they're there.  That cell in the spreadsheet has changed.  Apparently quite a few calculations used that cell as a factor one way or another.

 

In my case (arguably in all cases), only a merciful God could possibly love a sinner like myself.  So I don't really worry about the prospect of a cruel, vengeful God.  If that's what we have, I have zero chance at avoiding hell anyway- I've made damn sure of that.  The only God I have left is a merciful God.

 

 

 

 

 

 

*  It was true.  But keep in mind that I was also quite angry at/about the Church, Christians, concepts of God, and how my entire life had been run by the church for 18 years.  With permanent effects on my personality and life experience.  'Atheist' expressed the angry young man I was pretty well, and I didn't care who knew it.

 

** A word I learned from Asimov.  Not Isaac himself, but one of the long departed Ancients among the X-Christian tribe.

 

 

 

 

[RankStranger]

36 minutes ago, Weezer said:

Hey, I have done similar things.  HA!  Just ask my wife.

 

I can see how thinking about God, and being trapped by him (as you described him on the thread in the Lions Den) could be very triggering.  

 

Do you remember what thread that was?  I may have to give myself a bit of a talking to.

[RankStranger]

43 minutes ago, Weezer said:

By the way.  It took a while for me to get the significance of the above picture of Jesus with the red cap, but I like that.

 

I like this post.

[◊ Weezer ◊]

2 hours ago, RankStranger said:

 

Do you remember what thread that was?  I may have to give myself a bit of a talking to.

Faith, logic and freedom thread.  I may be reading more into it than was there, but it seemed like you were feeling trapped by a sadistic god you couldn't escape.  There was a time when I felt the same way. Scary stuff!

[RankStranger]

10 hours ago, Weezer said:

Faith, logic and freedom thread.  I may be reading more into it than was there, but it seemed like you were feeling trapped by a sadistic god you couldn't escape.  There was a time when I felt the same way. Scary stuff!

 

I don't remember exactly what I would've said.  But that's a fair description.  If one comes to believe in Fundamentalist God, one basically is trapped.  IMO.

 

Lucky for me, I'm confident that God isn't a fundamentalist.