Me And The Controversy.

[Guest Shiva H. Vishnu]

I never said you were evil. I never said you were craz y. It seems you have a problem exaggerating things, yourself.

 

Anyway, I have newborn kittens to take care of and a final exam tomorrow, so it will be a few days before I can get back to you. Because I respect you, I am going to do it. I don't know why. It's like doing what the school bully asks you to do. I really hate myself for doing it because I think you're going to walk all over me and keep being rude (as you have been in this thread, even after I complemented you and basically said it was all water under the bridge)... but whatever.

 

I'll get back to this thread possibly by the end of the weekend. You aren't exactly on my priority list.

 

Remember that I'm female, and females often have very different ideas of what is considered over-the-line in things such as this. This is why I don't even think you'll understand what I'm saying. But I'll do it. I'm a masochist, I guess.

 

 

Yeah, if you think it's rude to ask people to back up their accusations about you with facts, not even quotes, but perhaps a vague recollection of the topic being discussed so that I might even have a basic frame of reference for what you're talking about, then I probably won't understand where your criticism is coming from.

 

When it comes to saying things like you're sure I troll new XC threads to hurt them, forgive me if the fact that the next words out of your mouth are, but I don't have a problem with you. Critical and hurtful aren't the same thing.

 

I love how I'm not on your priority list, and you're sure the whole thing would be a waste of time cause I just wouldn't listen anyway - that is, when it comes to substantiaing the vague negative things you've said about me in the thread. You have plenty of time to make the claim, but no time to substantiate it so that it can be discussed and addressed in any productive way.

 

You're right, pandora, looking it up would truly be a waste of time. You are convinced it's real even though you cannot recall a single detail. Why should the details change your mind?

 

This has GOT to be the most pointless and narcississtic thread I've ever read, and YET I CAN'T leave it alone.

 

Why is it pointless? And everything that isn't about starving children is narcissistic so what's your point? Would it be pointless and narcissistic if it were you who thought you hadn't been given a fair shake?

[Lycorth]

I'm a masochist, I guess.

 

Aren't you, though?

[Guest Shiva H. Vishnu]

It's like doing what the school bully asks you to do.

 

WHAT???!!! That sounds insane to me. I started this thread to give a voice to the people speaking against me in a forum I couldn't hear. If I were them, I'd jump at the chance. How is it bully behavior to ask you to at least remember the particular circumstance that caused you to have a negative opinion of me or my behavior. You call me a bully for that?

[pitchu]

Shiva, I've never been hurt by you (I'm too old for that crap) and I'm not scared of you (I'm too old for that crap) and, in fact, I was touched by the vulnerability shown in your revealing story about your friend with AIDS (never too old to be touched).

 

I didn't want you in the CH because, based on the evidence of the nature of your posts in "that" thread, I consider you a Holocaust denier; I consider Holocaust deniers unbalanced in a critical core-being kind of way; I don't want my most personal and private concerns being read and/or responded to by someone I consider unbalanced in a critical core-being kind of way.

 

Hey, it's just who I am... just me bein' me... just the blatant unadorned truth... non-PC... visceral prejudice against, distrust of entire category of fellow human beings: The Holocaust Deniers.

[Guest Shiva H. Vishnu]

Shiva, I've never been hurt by you (I'm too old for that crap) and I'm not scared of you (I'm too old for that crap) and, in fact, I was touched by the vulnerability shown in your revealing story about your friend with AIDS (never too old to be touched).

 

I didn't want you in the CH because, based on the evidence of the nature of your posts in "that" thread, I consider you a Holocaust denier; I consider Holocaust deniers unbalanced in a critical core-being kind of way; I don't want my most personal and private concerns being read and/or responded to by someone I consider unbalanced in a critical core-being kind of way.

 

Hey, it's just who I am... just me bein' me... just the blatant unadorned truth... non-PC... visceral prejudice against, distrust of entire category of fellow human beings: The Holocaust Deniers.

 

 

Pitchu, even in that thread I said that I was not a "holocaust denier". I had and still have some of the same questions that I know a few other CH members have about the official figure of 6 million, but I cannot imagine how anyone could come away from that thread with the belief that I have any certain belief either way about anything other than the fact that abridging free speech is never a good idea and is always suspicious. You are free to believe that I am a holocaust denier, and probably consequently a racist, but this is so far from the truth it's absurd.

[white_raven23]

I've never had a problem with you Shiva. As soon as I recognized that you were one blunt guy, who had a habit of dishing out more truth than the average bear could digest at a single sitting, I was just fine with you.

 

I think a lot of the trouble was that folks expected you to automatically "know" things, even when no one informed you. Sometimes I think folks assume that everyone reads every post of every thread past and present once they walk in the door.......and so they expect you to already "know" who has sensitivities and whatnot, and that is a completely unfair assumption.....but I think that has a lot to do with how folks have wound up with the impression you are "insensitive" when you bluntly address something that in their minds, was covered adequately in three of the 5 to 600+ posts in various threads on unrelated topics in a given day.

 

Which is hardly fair.

[white_raven23]

Are we done playing with Willy's thing yet?

[greygirl]

Sorry, I'm not going through 35 pages of your old posts. How many of your posts have been deleted by a mod? I know there were several in The Colosseum just in the last few days. Those are the kind of posts I'm talking about, and I can't go back and find them because they've been deleted. And you've already stated that you think the people you attack deserve it. I disagree. Why go to all that trouble just so you can continue to justify yourself and blame others? It would be an exercise in futility. You asked for input, I gave it, you immediately started attacking instead of discussing it calmly and rationally. I have nothing else to say on the subject.

[Guest Shiva H. Vishnu]

Sorry, I'm not going through 35 pages of your old posts. How many of your posts have been deleted by a mod? I know there were several in The Colosseum just in the last few days. Those are the kind of posts I'm talking about, and I can't go back and find them because they've been deleted. And you've already stated that you think the people you attack deserve it. I disagree. Why go to all that trouble just so you can continue to justify yourself and blame others? It would be an exercise in futility. You asked for input, I gave it, you immediately started attacking instead of discussing it calmly and rationally. I have nothing else to say on the subject.

 

I attacked amy marie for being totally fake and full of shit and I would totally do it again. Everyone here knows she's full of shit. I'm still not sure why those posts were deleted other than the fact that they contained profanity in an inappropriate forum.

 

I don't need you to go through my posts, greygirl. Just go through that great brain of yours and remember one incident where I behaved inappropriately and I will look it up myself. Can you do that?

[pitchu]

 

 

Pitchu, even in that thread I said that I was not a "holocaust denier". I had and still have some of the same questions that I know a few other CH members have about the official figure of 6 million, but I cannot imagine how anyone could come away from that thread with the belief that I have any certain belief either way about anything other than the fact that abridging free speech is never a good idea and is always suspicious. You are free to believe that I am a holocaust denier, and probably consequently a racist, but this is so far from the truth it's absurd.

I appreciate that you said you weren't a Holocaust denier. I know that you'll equally understand that what a person expresses, quotes, avers, at length, is often a more persuasive determinant than his refuting the label commonly given to his espoused set of convictions.

 

If there is something I don't understand about how vociferously you denied key aspects of the most documented event in modern history, I'd be willing to exchange PMs with you, if you're open to that. (But it'll have to wait 'til the end of July, 'cause I'll be mostly away from a computer starting Saturday.)

[Guest Shiva H. Vishnu]

.

 

The fact that you're doing this publicly in a thread devoted to it in just insane. Most people would go back and review their own posts... but you demand that people step up. I understand why, but let it go already. The rest of us have.

 

also a good point .

 

I have reviewed my posts, and I still don't get it. I reviewed them again and I still don't see what the big deal is. Other than what I said to willy, nothing Ive said has been all that personal, unless you're a christian troll.

 

 

 

Pitchu, even in that thread I said that I was not a "holocaust denier". I had and still have some of the same questions that I know a few other CH members have about the official figure of 6 million, but I cannot imagine how anyone could come away from that thread with the belief that I have any certain belief either way about anything other than the fact that abridging free speech is never a good idea and is always suspicious. You are free to believe that I am a holocaust denier, and probably consequently a racist, but this is so far from the truth it's absurd.

I appreciate that you said you weren't a Holocaust denier. I know that you'll equally understand that what a person expresses, quotes, avers, at length, is often a more persuasive determinant than his refuting the label commonly given to his espoused set of convictions.

 

If there is something I don't understand about how vociferously you denied key aspects of the most documented event in modern history, I'd be willing to exchange PMs with you, if you're open to that. (But it'll have to wait 'til the end of July, 'cause I'll be mostly away from a computer starting Saturday.)

 

I denied not one iota of the holocaust, pitchu. If you think so, read the thread again. I just asked questions and don't claim to know the absolute facts about anything I didn't personally witness. PM me if you like, but there's no way in hell I'm a holocaust denier if my words in that thread are the evidence. That's the problem with PC governed topics like the holocaust. Just asking the question makes people think that you are really only asking the question so that you can tell them the answer. That's not me. I don't think I know what the fuck happened. I know that the version of the truth told to us in the history books isn't the same as gospel truth.

 

I say it again, not only am I not a holocaust denier, but I don't believe I have said anything that would suggest that I am to anyone who wasn't already oversensitive to the subject and full of assumptions about the kind of person who might ask such questions.

 

I just am curious and love the truth, pitchu, and am suspicious of the party line in almost all situations. Surely you, in your old age, can understand that?

[Guest Shiva H. Vishnu]

 

 

This kind of honesty I feel is a good quality...some view it as drama queenery.

 

 

 

Whomever might feel like I'm being a "drama queen", I humbly ask that you just put yourself in my shoes for a second. How could I respect this board if I knew there was a place on it where people could go and criticise me without me ever being able to hear it and answer for it and perhaps atone for it if that is necessary. How is it in any way unusual to not wish to be the subject of critical conversations that nearly everone around you can read, but you cannot? I mean, Jesus, who wouldn't be bothered by that, especially if you knew that much of the sentiments in the conversation were negative and designed to ensure that you are never part of the conversation?

 

Drama queen? I'm a fucking person.

[pitchu]

Um, Zoe, I want to thank you again for that PM you sent me some months back. It meant a lot to me.

 

As for the issue of free speech, I'd like to mention, here, that on that thread I was the one to say, "Don't hesitate to post from and link to the Holocaust Denial sites being talked about, and let's have at it, because there's no censorship of that sort at Ex-C."

[Guest Shiva H. Vishnu]

Um, Zoe, I want to thank you again for that PM you sent me some months back. It meant a lot to me.

 

As for the issue of free speech, I'd like to mention, here, that on that thread I was the one to say, "Don't hesitate to post from and link to the Holocaust Denial sites being talked about, and let's have at it, because there's no censorship of that sort at Ex-C."

 

 

No, no censorship, but you won't hesitate to use the opinions you've formed from your assumtions to exclude people from the CH. You assumed because of my words in the holocaust thread that I was something akin to a sociopath. You might want to reconsider your judgement critea. Or not.

[Ouroboros]

I attacked amy marie for being totally fake and full of shit and I would totally do it again. Everyone here knows she's full of shit. I'm still not sure why those posts were deleted other than the fact that they contained profanity in an inappropriate forum.

Correct. It was in the Colosseum. Personal attacks and rudeness -> Delete.

Lion's Den, go right ahead.

[Guest Shiva H. Vishnu]

It might surprise you to know that I am also a lyricist, pitchu. We may have more in common then you think.

[pitchu]

 

No, no censorship, but you won't hesitate to use the opinions you've formed from your assumtions to exclude people from the CH. You assumed because of my words in the holocaust thread that I was something akin to a sociopath. You might want to reconsider your judgement critea. Or not.

A... I have no independent power to exclude people from the CH. I can only express why I wouldn't use the CH for its intended purpose if a particular member were there.

 

B... I do my utmost to form opinions based on evidence, not assumptions. If what was evidenced by your myriad of posts in that thread doesn't truly represent your own opinions, please let me know. Without an explanation as to why you'd voice opinions that weren't truly yours, I'll continue to base my opinions of you on your emphatically stated opinions.

 

C... You used the word, sociopath. I did not. I described, as best I could, an essential lack of balance within the core of a person who's a Holocaust denier.

 

D... For the most part, I'm pretty happy with the criteria I use to make my judgments (see point B, above). But I'm open to having you suggest other criteria which might be superior to mine.

 

So, then, Shiva! Let's talk lyrics! Yay!

 

But as of right now, I'm off to bed.

[Guest Shiva H. Vishnu]

C... You used the word, sociopath. I did not. I described, as best I could, an essential lack of balance within the core of a person who's a Holocaust denier

 

I am not a holocaust denier, so your opinion doesn't apply to me. Has there ever been such a thing as an ex-holocaust denyer? If so then your criticism of the holocaust denier being something fundamentally flawed is inaccurate. In any case, I am not now, nor have I ever been a holocaust denyier. There is a huge difference between presenting something as my own belief and presenting something as an honest query. My questions in the holocaust thread were the latter. If you don't believe it, why not? I have reviewed the thread many times, and the majority of my harshness in that thread was a direct result of the kneejerks and assumptions of those who feel the issue shouldn't even be discussed without it being a vulcanizing conversation in which everyone leaves with a clear knowledge of who the bad guys and the good guys are. I remember being called a rat for asking "someone" to explain themsleves. It's unfortunate that such things can leave otherwise intelligent people with the idea that anyone who asks this particular set of questions must be this unqualified variety of person.

[Guest Shiva H. Vishnu]

Pitchu, it may help you to know that I recently saw the documentary Mr. Death, about one of the key puppets in the holocaust denier scene. One of the objections that i made in the initial holocaust denial thread was that, from the video I saw which was produced by a young jewish man, the facts seemed to show that the the rooms that were claimed to be gas chambers showed little sign of continuous cyanide exposure.

 

The documentary I saw showed how the research that led to those conclusions was flawed, because the labs analysing the samples didn't know what they were analysing, and the samples were diluted by the fact that they chiseled inches into the concrete instead of taking sample scrapings of the surface only. Cyanide doesn't penetrate beyond a few microns.

 

I'm open to the truth, pitchu. I have no preconceived notions, and certainly none based on racial prejudice, other than my firm belief that white men can't jump.

[Checkmate]

(Damn it! Is the "Reply" function screwing up again? Nothing is getting posted. This is my third attempt to reply and I've had to settle for the "Fast Reply" option.)

 

Anyway, Shiva, I apologize if my LAST post came off critical of you. THAT was not my intent. I was making an (apparently lame) attempt at humor, directed back at myself. I'll have to work harder at that, I suppose.

 

Rock on, dude. You DO deserve justice. You haven't done shit wrong as far as I can tell. (And I DID read through all 35 pages of your posts to confirm this! Fuck, but my eyes hurt!)

 

*edit - This damn thing keeps cutting off last words! Fucker!

[Fweethawt]

Rock on, dude. You DO deserve justice. You haven't done shit wrong as far as I can tell. (And I DID read through all 35 pages of your posts to confirm this!

I started with the last page and backtracked all the way to page 10.

 

I read through most of the Holocaust thread.

 

I will be going back to read the whole thing again.

 

 

And Pandora, this is the only thing that I found that was addressed to you, and he was plainly joking. It very well may have been your PMS that day.

 

PANDORA

 

Here, he started with Dianka. But they made up, which is cool.

 

DIANKA

 

Here's one of his first replies to Knightley. I understand his reasons for doubting her as time went on. I had the very same doubts myself. I even went so far as to clear it up between Knightley and myself. We're cool now.

 

KNIGHTLEY

 

And here's the Holocaust thread in case anyone is interested.

 

HOLOCAUST

 

 

 

As far as harsh replies go, most of them were directed toward fundies.

[Asimov]

You guys are assholes for opening old wounds...you should be a-fucking-shamed of yourselves.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[willybilly30]

Everything against Shiva is so old damn you people can hold a grudge forever boy I am glad I didn't insult no body before I got in the CH.

[Fweethawt]

You guys are assholes for opening old wounds...

you should be a-fucking-shamed of yourselves.

And you're stupid. So, STFU.

[Dianka]

You guys are assholes for opening old wounds....

 

Some people enjoy opening old wounds, buncha scab-pickin nancies if you ask me.

 

I find it a little shameful that some people are willing to use loop-holes to keep J out of CH. I've said it before, but the excuse that you don't want him reading the fine details of your life is not good enough. Have the posts deleted if you don't want him knowing certain things about you. I'm actually more offended by this than anything J called me in that tasteless little exchange of ours...