Mythra Posted June 10, 2005 Share Posted June 10, 2005 I have a question for Christians: This was prompted by a comment from BTR about how there are good and bad people in all walks of life, in all religions, Christianity included. Supposedly, when a person accepts Christ into their life, they are filled with the Holy Spirit who comforts, guides, and gives them instruction into understanding the word of god. If this is true, how do you account for the incredible diversity and divisions among christians? How do you account for the fact that there are christians, such as yourself and TAP, who seem to be non-judgmental and open-minded, and there are people like Falwell (or those a thousand times worse). (Troy comes to mind) Is the Holy Spirit of such miniscule impact on a person's life that he isn't capable of influencing opinion or personality? How can people who are filled with the holy spirit still spew forth such incredible hatred? Why would the Holy Spirit give a thousand different people a thousand different interpretations of scripture? Where is the unity proclaimed by Christ in the gospels? What it comes down to (in my humble opinion) is that there are just as many different kinds of christians as there are different kinds of people. There is no evidence whatsoever that there is any H.S. influence. If you're going to give the argument of free will, and that God will not override anyone's free will, I've already heard that one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ouroboros Posted June 10, 2005 Share Posted June 10, 2005 Good that you bring this up Mythra. It was one of the thoughts I had too when I de-converted, why doesn't the newborn person become a better person, but bascially they still have the same sins? I've noticed that the distribution of good and evil people is pretty much the same if you're Christian or if your not. Actually I would say, I've met more people without religion that have been better people and higher morals, than the people that claim to have the ultimate truth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mythra Posted June 10, 2005 Author Share Posted June 10, 2005 COME TO THINK OF IT, Jesus wasn't just talking about the unity of the believers..... In John 14 HE WAS PRAYING FOR IT!!! Evidently, God doesn't answer Jesus' prayers either.. And I thought I was being singled out Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burry The Rag Posted June 10, 2005 Share Posted June 10, 2005 Hello Mythra and Han, Second day as a member and I'm singled out in my very own thread. Yikes. I hope that smushing I eluded to earlier doesn't come this soon. Is the Holy Spirit of such miniscule impact on a person's life that he isn't capable of influencing opinion or personality? <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Mythra good questions…In a word, no. I maintain the Holy Spirit does influence/guide opinion (or one’s beliefs) but not necessarily their personalities. The vast majority of Christians maintain a similar personality (although I’ve heard of exceptions) if you’re shy before you will probably be shy thereafter. If you’re outgoing pre you will likely be post. Am I missing the boat here? My answer seems a little simplistic… As for opinion (or beliefs?) the Holy Spirit should influence/guide the believer as they mature in their faith. How can people who are filled with the holy spirit still spew forth such incredible hatred? <{POST_SNAPBACK}> I don’t know. Hate is wrong coming from an unbeliever and it’s more wrong from a believer as Christians are supposed to be different. I have three scenarios (there may be more), none of which excuse the behavior. One is that you have non-believing individuals using the faith for their own gain. I don’t know anyone killing in the name of Christianity (please read Reboot’s Christian fears thread if unfamiliar with same) but there are a lot of people who look like they are only after money. The "Jesus Hates it When you Smoke" ashtray comes to mind. http://trashvilleusa.com/jehaitwh.html I can’t see the heart of those marketers, but it seems much more about cash than Christianity. The same goes for many books, t-shirts, bumper stickers, seminars, etc. There are other people who maintain a sincere relationship with Christ and get off track. Imagine a Christian concerned about a friend who is not a believer. They might present the Gospel and that's all well and good. But when the friend vocalizes they are not interested, the believer should shut their yap. What starts as appropriate concern may quickly turns into unwanted proselytizing. Here is a Christian thinks they are doing the right thing, perhaps even the will of God, but are not. Finally, some Christians willfully sin. As Paul put it, “I do what I do not want to do.” Why would the Holy Spirit give a thousand different people a thousand different interpretations of scripture? <{POST_SNAPBACK}> That’s a great question I don’t have a complete answer for. One possibility: some people need more structure than others. My wife had a friend who was hooked into drugs pretty bad. He got saved and things went well, then he’d get hooked in again. They cycle repeated for years. He had a physical addition that held on after he became a believer. He joined a “Christian Community,” one of the few remaining from the 60’s-era Jesus Movement. He was required to work and received only a small stipend. But the necessities of life were provided to him and he maintained the extra structure enabled him to stay clean when formal “detox” programs had failed. Are there other causes that would have allowed him to be OK had he stayed on his own? I have no idea. Personally, I would hate a living arrangement like that. Different strokes/different folks? All that to say, is it possible God speaks to his believers in ways the need to hear? You’d likely say that’s crap. I think it happens all the time. Other possibilities are that people misinterpret for the three reasons given above. It’s not a complete answer, did it answer what you were asking? Where is the unity proclaimed by Christ in the gospels? <{POST_SNAPBACK}> In many cases, I would revert to the three causes above. Also, where you see disunity, I see a complete body. You have urban citizens, rural citizens, liberals, conservatives, old, young, Africans, Asians, Australians, Europeans, Americans (North and South) all of whom worship the same God. Is everyone in lock-step agreement on every detail? Certainly not, but it’s a faith that transcends time and culture. There is no evidence whatsoever that there is any H.S. influence. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Many, many people would disagree. The problem is, the Holy Spirit’s (or any other) influence can not be proved empirically. At this point it’s personal experience. Lots of people maintain the Holy Spirit has changed them. I’m one of them. Could I be mistaken? Certainly, but I don’t think I am. Peace! BtR PS: I know you have replied in the other thread, but I need to get some other things done before the weekend. I’m not ducking out, but can’t reply until Monday. Peace! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ouroboros Posted June 10, 2005 Share Posted June 10, 2005 Hello Mythra and Han, Second day as a member and I'm singled out in my very own thread. Yikes. I hope that smushing I eluded to earlier doesn't come this soon. I don’t know. We love to single out and smush! Hate is wrong coming from an unbeliever and it’s more wrong from a believer as Christians are supposed to be different. I have three scenarios (there may be more), none of which excuse the behavior. One is that you have non-believing individuals using the faith for their own gain. I don’t know anyone killing in the name of Christianity (please read Reboot’s Christian fears thread if unfamiliar with same) but there are a lot of people who look like they are only after money. The "Jesus Hates it When you Smoke" ashtray comes to mind. http://trashvilleusa.com/jehaitwh.html I can’t see the heart of those marketers, but it seems much more about cash than Christianity. The same goes for many books, t-shirts, bumper stickers, seminars, etc. Weren’t the Crusades in the 11-12 century a religious war? Didn’t they want to gain control over Palestine in the name of Jesus; to throw out the infidels, the Muslims? For the rest of your message, I would say you have a better view of how Christianity should work, but many people don’t see it the same way as you do. And there is a lot of hate, envy and anger amongst Christians. And I come from a congregation that believed that salvation truly changes your heart, but yet I saw so many bad things. Of course not everyone was like that, but if you look at statistics, that America has 10 times more (percentage) Christians, but yet 4 times higher crime rate than Sweden. How can Christianity claim the answer to peace if the statistics prove the opposite? There is no evidence whatsoever that there is any H.S. influence. Many, many people would disagree. The problem is, the Holy Spirit’s (or any other) influence can not be proved empirically. At this point it’s personal experience. Lots of people maintain the Holy Spirit has changed them. I’m one of them. Could I be mistaken? Certainly, but I don’t think I am. The HS could be a figment of our imagination, how our mind actually have the power and the ability to change your life, but it becomes the image to where you project your needs, and the image becomes you guide, while all along, it was you subconscious helping you. I’m not saying it’s a bad thing to be religious. My view is only that no one can claim to have the truth to religion. If Christianity was the only true answer, then people wouldn’t be free from alcoholism by becoming Muslim or any other religion. If you have the same effects by Christianity or any other religion, and even non-religious methods too, then Christianity is by experience and statistics not the only way. I think you have an open mind, and I’m not trying to take your faith away. But your faith doesn’t hold the ground when tested, and can therefore not claim sole ownership of the truth. PS: I know you have replied in the other thread, but I need to get some other things done before the weekend. I’m not ducking out, but can’t reply until Monday. Peace! No problem. We’ll hear back from you then. Live long and prosper! [edit] Spelling corrections, I spell like a duck sometimes. If it spells like a duck, and it smells like a duck, then it is someone with their head stuck in the ground! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dogmatically_challenged Posted June 10, 2005 Share Posted June 10, 2005 HanSolo And I come from a congregation that believed that salvation truly changes your heart, but yet I saw so many bad things. How about being so wacked out on the holy spirit that you can't even see any other solutions to lifes problems aside from miracles. Plenty of pentecostals love that spiritual dope, but when thier neighbor needs help, they just say "I'll pray for ya." " Would you like to come to church with me?" All I've seen a lota times are people strung out on spiritual exstasy, and just ignoring problems in thier own families and friends. A kind of apathy towards those who need attention or help just because gawd will eventualy fix shit. Religion is Crack. -edit in--> to some people. I would say you have a better view of how Christianity should work, but many people don’t see it the same way as you do. Religion isn't a good thing for a lot of personality types. Heck religion at best is like having a couple of beers once in a while. Some people can be moderate drinkers, and be the people that they naturaly are while being moderate drinkers. Drinking in moderation can ease pain, and enhance optimism in some people, but the drink isn't what really makes them who they are. The real damage that religionists do is call something that is mind altering something that is inspired by THE god and is what everyone needs to solve problems. There are other things besides moderate drinking that can be just as relaxing, just as good at promoting optimism and relieving pain that is all natural. Exercise being one of them. In the case of religion exercising ones brain and avoiding half assed coherent philosophy is an alternative that will not be a stumbling block to anyone. Not everyone is a moderate, religion can cause some personality types to do harm and even the moderates think that thier comforts are the solution for everyone, which is false. This belief is what perpetuates the damage that religion causes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ouroboros Posted June 10, 2005 Share Posted June 10, 2005 A kind of apathy towards those who need attention or help just because gawd will eventualy fix shit. Correct. This apathy I’ve experienced personally, and seen in churches all over the place. My life changed (sounds really like a testimony here) when I de-converted, I realized that I was the only responsible for my actions, and shit happens around you without reason (no interference of demons or angels), and you just have to accept it does, but you can do something about it. Religion is a way of suspending responsibility and reason. And that’s why religions, like you said, dopes up people and make them give up their minds in the hands of the “superior” leaders at work or in the country. People need to learn to think, not only to maintain a position based on their pastors! Free your free will! Exercise being one of them. In the case of religion exercising ones brain and avoiding half assed coherent philosophy is an alternative that will not be a stumbling block to anyone. Hmm. Exercise is good, exorcism is not. I’m not sure what you meant with above statement… Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dogmatically_challenged Posted June 10, 2005 Share Posted June 10, 2005 We come from the same kinds of Christians Hans. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ouroboros Posted June 10, 2005 Share Posted June 10, 2005 We come from the same kinds of Christians Hans. Did you exercise your exorcism on a regular basis too? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dogmatically_challenged Posted June 10, 2005 Share Posted June 10, 2005 Did you exercise your exorcism on a regular basis too? <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Since age 13 I was an atheist. Exercise is good, exorcism is not. I’m not sure what you meant with above statement… I meant that giving your brain a workout while avoiding half assed coherent philosophy will be a stumbling block to NO ONE. hehe I need to work on speaking coherently myself. HAHA! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ouroboros Posted June 10, 2005 Share Posted June 10, 2005 Since age 13 I was an atheist. I meant that giving your brain a workout while avoiding half assed coherent philosophy will be a stumbling block to NO ONE. hehe I need to work on speaking coherently myself. HAHA! Did you see my edit on the previous post about my "spelling like a duck". That's me. Quack Quack. Wow, you didn't have many years in church then. But you're saying it was a fundie church? I'm glad you got your sense back so early. There might be hope for humanity after all... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dogmatically_challenged Posted June 10, 2005 Share Posted June 10, 2005 Did you see my edit on the previous post about my "spelling like a duck". That's me. Quack Quack. Wow, you didn't have many years in church then. But you're saying it was a fundie church? I'm glad you got your sense back so early. There might be hope for humanity after all... <{POST_SNAPBACK}> No. I still had to go to church, I was a closet atheist. Being an atheist is very frustrating sometimes. People have no idea. I am agnostic atheist BTW. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ouroboros Posted June 10, 2005 Share Posted June 10, 2005 No. I still had to go to church, I was a closet atheist. Being an atheist is very frustrating sometimes. People have no idea. I am agnostic atheist BTW. Oh, I can only imagine. I have the luxury that I’m the head of my own house, which simplifies things. One of my sons was going to church for a while, and I drove him there. And the pastor came and suggested that I should go to a meeting. That felt weird. I’m an agnostic/atheist too. The only thing I’m certain about is that I’m not certain. To get back to the thread; it’s amazing how many expensive churches there are, and yet so many poor people. Doesn’t it show that few people are serious about what they believe? It seems like the creed of helping the poor and needy turns into helping the pastor and the needy church. Man, do I sound bitter or what… Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dogmatically_challenged Posted June 10, 2005 Share Posted June 10, 2005 Oh, I can only imagine. I have the luxury that I’m the head of my own house, which simplifies things. One of my sons was going to church for a while, and I drove him there. And the pastor came and suggested that I should go to a meeting. That felt weird. I’m an agnostic/atheist too. The only thing I’m certain about is that I’m not certain. To get back to the thread; it’s amazing how many expensive churches there are, and yet so many poor people. Doesn’t it show that few people are serious about what they believe? It seems like the creed of helping the poor and needy turns into helping the pastor and the needy church. Man, do I sound bitter or what… <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Well....I HATE magical thinking, yet it is unrealistic to believe we can take away peoples gods. Aint gonna happen. I am quite fond of deists, U.U. church, and the Quakers. The U.U.'s and Quakers drive me crazy but I think most really love people and they are more into using thier brains to help people. At least they care about people. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ouroboros Posted June 10, 2005 Share Posted June 10, 2005 Well....I HATE magical thinking, yet it is unrealistic to believe we can take away peoples gods. Aint gonna happen. I am quite fond of deists, U.U. church, and the Quakers. The U.U.'s and Quakers drive me crazy but I think most really love people and they are more into using thier brains to help people. At least they care about people. Totally agree. I respect everyone, and their religion, it's only when they claim to have the ultimate answer and they act against their own words, that is when I get upset. And of course, not everyone is like that. Deists at least down claim to know how tall God is, or his shoe size, or what he eats for breakfast, or how many farts he rips a day. Deists know that a supposed God is unknowable. I have very little knowledge of UU and the Quackers (sorry Quakers), but if what you're saying is true, using the brain is a good thing. This is a little story of mine: Jesus - Yo Dad God - Wazzup my son? J - There's fewer humans believing in me, it makes me depressed G - A no worries, they will soon figure it out J - What'ya mean? G - You see I was smart, I gave them a brain, intelligence and reason, and then I gave them free will, so they will soon figure out it's best to believe in you J - But daad, you're not up to date here with the happenings. That's the exact reason why the humans stopped believing. They used their reasoning and figured out that we don't exists. What shall we do? G - Damn! That was not my plan. Ok, let's go down and kill them all and start over. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dogmatically_challenged Posted June 10, 2005 Share Posted June 10, 2005 Totally agree. I respect everyone, and their religion, it's only when they claim to have the ultimate answer and they act against their own words, that is when I get upset. And of course, not everyone is like that. Deists at least down claim to know how tall God is, or his shoe size, or what he eats for breakfast, or how many farts he rips a day. Deists know that a supposed God is unknowable. I have very little knowledge of UU and the Quackers (sorry Quakers), but if what you're saying is true, using the brain is a good thing. This is a little story of mine: Jesus - Yo Dad God - Wazzup my son? J - There's fewer humans believing in me, it makes me depressed G - A no worries, they will soon figure it out J - What'ya mean? G - You see I was smart, I gave them a brain, intelligence and reason, and then I gave them free will, so they will soon figure out it's best to believe in you J - But daad, you're not up to date here with the happenings. That's the exact reason why the humans stopped believing. They used their reasoning and figured out that we don't exists. What shall we do? G - Damn! That was not my plan. Ok, let's go down and kill them all and start over. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Five smiley ROFL!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dogmatically_challenged Posted June 10, 2005 Share Posted June 10, 2005 If there is a godthingy I am not afraid of it. It can't be nearly as moronic and childish as jesus or yhwh Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ouroboros Posted June 10, 2005 Share Posted June 10, 2005 Five smiley ROFL!!! Thank you! Thank you, very mutch! (Sounding like Elvis) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ouroboros Posted June 10, 2005 Share Posted June 10, 2005 If there is a godthingy I am not afraid of it. It can't be nearly as moronic and childish as jesus or yhwh So true. That's why I consider Deists, Pagan or Naturalists being more valid as belief systems than the old established religions. It is rather disturbing that many religions claim ownership of moral codes based on Gods will, and then force it upon people, while the upper management rarely follow their own rules. Like Dubya and the comment he made about Terri Schiavo. "If there is doubt, we should choose life." And yet the whole Iraqi war was based on an unproven assumption of weapons and connections to the baddies, yet in doubt we go to attack, because we want to guard our life. So the choice there was not about to choice of life in general, but to choose specifically our own life only. That upsets me. A life is a life is a life is a life. Not life when I want to and death when I want to. No wonder the rest of the world is upset. I’m not saying it was a bad thing to take Saddam down, he deserved it and much more, but it’s not ok to do it based on lies. If you have a moral code to follow, then you should follow it. This is how I see the difference between a good leader and a not good one. Can he act on the morals he preach. If a leader says he has no morals, I have nothing to expect, but if someone claim he has morals, and then act immorally, then he will degrade the moral in the country too. Now if we take this to how we visualize God and what kind of nature he has. He claims obedience, and specify laws and moral codes, and yet he breaks them. He can do it because he’s God, so he’s not under the moral code he established. Yet he’s compared to a biological father, but if I did that to my kids, they wouldn’t do what I say, but they would copy what I do. We live and teach by example. God should know this, and teach us the right morals by being a good father, but the OT give us the opposite picture. He’s a bad and abusive father. [edit] To continue on my rant on how Dubya contradicts his own preaching. If we compare Iraqi war with the Schiavo case a bit further. Let’s put the war in the context of Schiavo. Let’s say that during Michael was sitting in the room with Terri, waiting for the last breath, that someone in the government came up with the idea to claim Mike had a gun and was going to shot Terri and then kill all the nurses in the hospital. Let’s say for the sake of the argument that Mike had a wish for his wife to die, and it was some kind of plot on his side, maybe because of some money he would get. So let’s say that Mike was evil. The gov. writes up a tactic plan for the SWAT team to go in and rescue Terri, and the propaganda machine starts pumping out “facts” that Michael is evil and should be taken down. The media start printing articles about how Mike has guns, and weapons and bombs and torturing his wife. Without a warrant, and without a proof that Mike has a gun, the SWAT team breaks into the room, and during the battle they kill Terri and a bunch of nurses. But they don’t kill Mike, but take him capture. They don’t find any guns in the room. So in the course of action they killed what they wanted to protect (Terri and the Nurses), and they only captured the bad guy (Mike), and there were no weapon, so no threat after all. An action like this would create uproar in America. People would scream about the liberty, and the constitutional rights. This would have been immoral, even if Mike had been a bad person. We just don’t kill people to capture evil people. We choose life before death. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dogmatically_challenged Posted June 10, 2005 Share Posted June 10, 2005 HansLike Dubya and the comment he made about Terri Schiavo. "If there is doubt, we should choose life." And yet the whole Iraqi war was based on an unproven assumption of weapons and connections to the baddies, yet in doubt we go to attack, because we want to guard our life. So the choice there was not about to choice of life in general, but to choose specifically our own life only. That upsets me. Politicians are dirty scum, and use religion because they know bible believing people are more or less the majority, and have a short attention span, are dogmatic, can be selfish as humans are sometimes, and know fully well that fear of what is different is a strong motivater. Just promise them what they want. Play on thier fears too. HansIf you have a moral code to follow, then you should follow it. This is how I see the difference between a good leader and a not good one. Can he act on the morals he preach. If a leader says he has no morals, I have nothing to expect, but if someone claim he has morals, and then act immorally, then he will degrade the moral in the country too. A lot people think dubya is a straight shooter. Thats true in a way as he is aiming true for a brand of capitolism that only benefite America maybe, but certainly benefits the few who are filthy rich. Small government my ass. The neocons are herding us like a cowboy herds cattle. We are a resource only. Not anything of value besides labor and taxes. HansNow if we take this to how we visualize God and what kind of nature he has. He claims obedience, and specify laws and moral codes, and yet he breaks them. He can do it because he’s God, so he’s not under the moral code he established. The god of the bible clearly contradicts justice as he breaks his own said standards. He also contradicts love. A supreme being who is omnibenevolent, omniscient, and omnipotent would look drastically different than biblegoD. This is obvious even to a child. That is if you read scripture without the rose coloured glasses provided by the churches theology. HansYet he’s compared to a biological father, but if I did that to my kids, they wouldn’t do what I say, but they would copy what I do. We live and teach by example. God should know this, and teach us the right morals by being a good father, but the OT give us the opposite picture. He’s a bad and abusive father. god does not have the limitations that a human father has, and so has no need or excuse for breaking his own code of ethics. Christians are so self deceptive. Its sad. HansLet’s say that during Michael was sitting in the room with Terri, waiting for the last breath, that someone in the government came up with the idea to claim Mike had a gun and was going to shot Terri and then kill all the nurses in the hospital. Let’s say for the sake of the argument that Mike had a wish for his wife to die, and it was some kind of plot on his side, maybe because of some money he would get. So let’s say that Mike was evil. The gov. writes up a tactic plan for the SWAT team to go in and rescue Terri, and the propaganda machine starts pumping out “facts” that Michael is evil and should be taken down. The media start printing articles about how Mike has guns, and weapons and bombs and torturing his wife. Without a warrant, and without a proof that Mike has a gun, the SWAT team breaks into the room, and during the battle they kill Terri and a bunch of nurses. But they don’t kill Mike, but take him capture. They don’t find any guns in the room. So in the course of action they killed what they wanted to protect (Terri and the Nurses), and they only captured the bad guy (Mike), and there were no weapon, so no threat after all. We all know there are other reasons why politicians do what they do. They sacrifice a lot getting into politics and when they finally make its time to pay people off, and reap the benefits of having influence of the economy. They are in it for themselves. HansAn action like this would create uproar in America. People would scream about the liberty, and the constitutional rights. This would have been immoral, even if Mike had been a bad person. We just don’t kill people to capture evil people. We choose life before death. Americans for the most part are fat, want the quik buck, don't want to adapt, and have very short attention spans. I love the Constitution but I can't stand many Americans. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chefranden Posted June 10, 2005 Share Posted June 10, 2005 COME TO THINK OF IT, Jesus wasn't just talking about the unity of the believers..... In John 14 HE WAS PRAYING FOR IT!!! Evidently, God doesn't answer Jesus' prayers either.. And I thought I was being singled out Jesus just didn't have enough faith. God said, "No, I'd rather have them fight among themselves, so they won't have time to notice I AM a fraud. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ouroboros Posted June 10, 2005 Share Posted June 10, 2005 Americans for the most part are fat, want the quik buck, don't want to adapt, and have very short attention spans. I love the Constitution but I can't stand many Americans. Hey, that’s a little bit harsh, man! There’s plenty of good Americans, and not so fat, but that’s because I live in a very good part of California. Sometimes I like to compare America to how it must’ve been in Rome and the Roman Empire. They got fat and lazy too. They invaded all surrounding countries in the name of good and justice etc. Lot of our idea of law and justice come from that time, so the roman philosophy kind of stuck to the world. But somehow I get the feeling we’re in the beginning of a new Empire. The reason is of course the actions of the current government. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ouroboros Posted June 10, 2005 Share Posted June 10, 2005 Jesus just didn't have enough faith. God said, "No, I'd rather have them fight among themselves, so they won't have time to notice I AM a fraud. "Diversion-ology" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dogmatically_challenged Posted June 10, 2005 Share Posted June 10, 2005 Hey, that’s a little bit harsh, man! There’s plenty of good Americans, and not so fat, but that’s because I live in a very good part of California. Sometimes I like to compare America to how it must’ve been in Rome and the Roman Empire. They got fat and lazy too. They invaded all surrounding countries in the name of good and justice etc. Lot of our idea of law and justice come from that time, so the roman philosophy kind of stuck to the world. But somehow I get the feeling we’re in the beginning of a new Empire. The reason is of course the actions of the current government. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> I may have to back peddle on some of what I said Hans. hehe. What I meant by fat is that when it comes to money and possesions many are mindless glutons. dubya IS potentialy a Constantine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ouroboros Posted June 10, 2005 Share Posted June 10, 2005 I may have to back peddle on some of what I said Hans. hehe. dubya IS potentialy a Constantine. I haven't seen that movie, aaargh, I want to see it... It should be out soon. (DVD) But I saw the South Park parody of it. You think Dubya know how to play on a golden PSP? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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