Evolution_beyond Posted May 18, 2007 Share Posted May 18, 2007 Only certain forms of Buddhism..... Why does everyone assume I know nothing about Buddhism? Just because I don't believe in it, or do not agree with it, doesn't mean I know nothing about it. People here have made outright blanket statements about Buddhism, but their blanket statements go unchallenged because they are believers. Why the double standard? It's a religion. For ALL the arguments in support of Buddhism all you need to do is change the the word 'Buddhism' to 'christianity' and it's the exact same argument, and they have as much doublespeak, groupspeak, and word twisting as any other religion. nevertheless you made some untrue statements about it. The main statement you made that was false is that Buddhism has a reliance on ancient texts. It does not. Ancient texts are not important. There are a few basic philosophical ideas that form the basis of it but it is an adaptable system and a work in progress. I don't think you could change the word 'Buddhism' to 'Christianity' here. Christianity clearly does rely on ancient texts. Stories that are treated as fact. A pseudo-historical character who is believed in as a god. A canonical collection of literature that is read and re-read as the fount of all wisdom. Buddhism does none of this. Buddhism is an idea - like dualism, existentialism, evolutionism. It is nothing like the cult of christ. Buddhism encourages people to think for themselves. Christianity encourages people to toss their own thinking aside and trust the words of a book. You cannot tarnish all pre-scientific systems of thought with the same brush. Some are in direct conflict with scientific thought - some are not. Buddhism, it seems to me, is one of those ancient forms of thought that is not in conflict with a scientific worldview at all but merely a useful addition to it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Legion Posted May 18, 2007 Share Posted May 18, 2007 Buddhism, it seems to me, is one of those ancient forms of thought that is not in conflict with a scientific worldview at all but merely a useful addition to it. I am beginning to agree with this assertion EB. Why can't we feel free to pluck what is useful from Buddhism? I am also beginning to feel that there is something ironic about defending Buddhism. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Jeff Posted May 18, 2007 Author Share Posted May 18, 2007 I would call anyone who believes that only their beliefs have any validity and that everybody else is wrong or delusional a fundie. If the shoe fits, wear it. If it doesn't, then don't. Wouldn't that put you in the fundy category too? Nope, I'm definitely not a fundie. I'm not arrogant enough to think that my beliefs equal "The Truth". I don't feel a need to have others (or everybody in the entire world) believe as I do. I don't feel a need to threaten others who believe differently than I do with an eternity in a really hot place presided over by a talking reptile if they don't change their views to make me happy. I don't feel a need to accuse others who believe differently than I do of being delusional or mentally ill. I don't feel a need to accuse people who have experiences that I think can't happen or who encounter realities that I think don't exist of somehow magically managing to misinterpret their own personal experiences (in other words, I'm not closed-minded). I don't feel a need to insult and belittle others because they hold beliefs that are different from mine. I think people should be free to believe as they choose or to believe as they must due to experiences and/or information that has defined and shaped them and their thinking as long as they are not hurting themselves or others without needing to fear being personally attacked or ridiculed for their beliefs. I believe that the many differing beliefs people hold and their many different reasons for holding their differing beliefs helps to make the world a very interesting place. So no, I'm definitely not a fundie. I abhor fundamentalism in all forms, and I'm probably about as anti-fundie as you can get. Hmm...if I was a fundie, I would have to abhor myself, and that wouldn't be a good thing, would it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grandpa Harley Posted May 18, 2007 Share Posted May 18, 2007 I would call anyone who believes that only their beliefs have any validity and that everybody else is wrong or delusional a fundie. If the shoe fits, wear it. If it doesn't, then don't. Wouldn't that put you in the fundy category too? Nope, I'm definitely not a fundie. I'm not arrogant enough to think that my beliefs equal "The Truth". I don't feel a need to have others (or everybody in the entire world) believe as I do. I don't feel a need to threaten others who believe differently than I do with an eternity in a really hot place presided over by a talking reptile if they don't change their views to make me happy. I don't feel a need to accuse others who believe differently than I do of being delusional or mentally ill. I don't feel a need to accuse people who have experiences that I think can't happen or who encounter realities that I think don't exist of somehow magically managing to misinterpret their own personal experiences (in other words, I'm not closed-minded). I don't feel a need to insult and belittle others because they hold beliefs that are different from mine. I think people should be free to believe as they choose or to believe as they must due to experiences and/or information that has defined and shaped them and their thinking as long as they are not hurting themselves or others without needing to fear being personally attacked or ridiculed for their beliefs. I believe that the many differing beliefs people hold and their many different reasons for holding their differing beliefs helps to make the world a very interesting place. So no, I'm definitely not a fundie. I abhor fundamentalism in all forms, and I'm probably about as anti-fundie as you can get. Hmm...if I was a fundie, I would have to abhor myself, and that wouldn't be a good thing, would it? I'm observing a pattern here... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Jeff Posted May 18, 2007 Author Share Posted May 18, 2007 I would call anyone who believes that only their beliefs have any validity and that everybody else is wrong or delusional a fundie. If the shoe fits, wear it. If it doesn't, then don't. Wouldn't that put you in the fundy category too? Nope, I'm definitely not a fundie. I'm not arrogant enough to think that my beliefs equal "The Truth". I don't feel a need to have others (or everybody in the entire world) believe as I do. I don't feel a need to threaten others who believe differently than I do with an eternity in a really hot place presided over by a talking reptile if they don't change their views to make me happy. I don't feel a need to accuse others who believe differently than I do of being delusional or mentally ill. I don't feel a need to accuse people who have experiences that I think can't happen or who encounter realities that I think don't exist of somehow magically managing to misinterpret their own personal experiences (in other words, I'm not closed-minded). I don't feel a need to insult and belittle others because they hold beliefs that are different from mine. I think people should be free to believe as they choose or to believe as they must due to experiences and/or information that has defined and shaped them and their thinking as long as they are not hurting themselves or others without needing to fear being personally attacked or ridiculed for their beliefs. I believe that the many differing beliefs people hold and their many different reasons for holding their differing beliefs helps to make the world a very interesting place. So no, I'm definitely not a fundie. I abhor fundamentalism in all forms, and I'm probably about as anti-fundie as you can get. Hmm...if I was a fundie, I would have to abhor myself, and that wouldn't be a good thing, would it? I'm observing a pattern here... Which is? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AtheistMommy Posted May 18, 2007 Share Posted May 18, 2007 BTW, thanks a lot for making our recent public disagreements on the Yahoo group public here. You'll notice that I didn't name names, but you did. I sure did. And for a reason just in case you didn't catch that. I'm not sure why you feel the need to bring my own actions up to me, I know exactly what I did. I would call anyone who believes that only their beliefs have any validity and that everybody else is wrong or delusional a fundie. If the shoe fits, wear it. If it doesn't, then don't. So I suppose you'd call me a fundy for believing that gravity is true and anyone who believes different is wrong or delusional. Ghosts actually do exist. I have seen them on more than one occasion (human and animal). There is actually plenty of evidence (circumstantial and "anecdotal" though it may be) in the form of reports just like mine. Reports of ghost sightings, of course, abound. People who refuse to even consider the possibility that there might be something real to the reports enjoy writing them off as "anecdotal" or claiming that the person seeing the ghost misinterpreted their experience, or whatever. I have my theories about what ghosts actually are based on research and discussions with family and friends, but I'm not prepared to discuss it at the moment. So by your own admission you're a fundie. I see no "open mindedness" in the above quote. It would seem to me that you are refusing to see the other side. I see the Rev as closed-minded primarily because he refuses to even consider the possibility that he might be wrong. Unlike you. I didn't enjoy being publicly insulted for my differing beliefs, nor did I enjoy having you publicly call me a "poor bastard" (I'm not) or having you accuse me of having voices in my head (I don't). No telling what has been said about me since Yahoo quit sending me group messages. I'm sure I don't want to know. Beyond this one post, I'm not going to discuss this in public. If you want to discuss things further, feel free to PM me. Then don't ask for someone to "debunk" you and stop coming on public forms and public email groups to air your dirty laundry. There's no need to PM you if you've already given all the info there is to give out. I merely gave one name. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AtheistMommy Posted May 19, 2007 Share Posted May 19, 2007 I'm observing a pattern here... Yes, and it's referred to as "denial." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Posted May 19, 2007 Share Posted May 19, 2007 nevertheless you made some untrue statements about it. I don't care enough about Buddhism to care. It's just another religion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Posted May 19, 2007 Share Posted May 19, 2007 Nope, I'm definitely not a fundie. Well.... according to your definition, you are. I'm not arrogant enough to think that my beliefs equal "The Truth". Yet you have stated many times that you firmly believe that ghosts exist. I don't feel a need to have others (or everybody in the entire world) believe as I do. I don't feel a need to threaten others who believe differently than I do with an eternity in a really hot place presided over by a talking reptile if they don't change their views to make me happy. I don't feel a need to accuse others who believe differently than I do of being delusional or mentally ill. I don't feel a need to accuse people who have experiences that I think can't happen or who encounter realities that I think don't exist of somehow magically managing to misinterpret their own personal experiences (in other words, I'm not closed-minded). I don't feel a need to insult and belittle others because they hold beliefs that are different from mine. I think people should be free to believe as they choose or to believe as they must due to experiences and/or information that has defined and shaped them and their thinking as long as they are not hurting themselves or others without needing to fear being personally attacked or ridiculed for their beliefs. I believe that the many differing beliefs people hold and their many different reasons for holding their differing beliefs helps to make the world a very interesting place. So no, I'm definitely not a fundie. I abhor fundamentalism in all forms, and I'm probably about as anti-fundie as you can get. Yet according to your short version of what a fundie is, you definitely qualify. And from what I've read here, you mind sure seems to be closed on the subject of ghosts. You claim that you and your family have had multiple encounters with them. So, are you open to the explanations of what you believe you saw, or are you sticking with the ghosts? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Jeff Posted May 19, 2007 Author Share Posted May 19, 2007 I'm observing a pattern here... Yes, and it's referred to as "denial." And what is it that I am allegedly denying? Inquiring minds want to know... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grandpa Harley Posted May 19, 2007 Share Posted May 19, 2007 I would call anyone who believes that only their beliefs have any validity and that everybody else is wrong or delusional a fundie. If the shoe fits, wear it. If it doesn't, then don't. Wouldn't that put you in the fundy category too? Nope, I'm definitely not a fundie. I'm not arrogant enough to think that my beliefs equal "The Truth". I don't feel a need to have others (or everybody in the entire world) believe as I do. I don't feel a need to threaten others who believe differently than I do with an eternity in a really hot place presided over by a talking reptile if they don't change their views to make me happy. I don't feel a need to accuse others who believe differently than I do of being delusional or mentally ill. I don't feel a need to accuse people who have experiences that I think can't happen or who encounter realities that I think don't exist of somehow magically managing to misinterpret their own personal experiences (in other words, I'm not closed-minded). I don't feel a need to insult and belittle others because they hold beliefs that are different from mine. I think people should be free to believe as they choose or to believe as they must due to experiences and/or information that has defined and shaped them and their thinking as long as they are not hurting themselves or others without needing to fear being personally attacked or ridiculed for their beliefs. I believe that the many differing beliefs people hold and their many different reasons for holding their differing beliefs helps to make the world a very interesting place. So no, I'm definitely not a fundie. I abhor fundamentalism in all forms, and I'm probably about as anti-fundie as you can get. Hmm...if I was a fundie, I would have to abhor myself, and that wouldn't be a good thing, would it? I'm observing a pattern here... Which is? Uncle Dave going for the 'y'all a fundie' argument... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grandpa Harley Posted May 19, 2007 Share Posted May 19, 2007 nevertheless you made some untrue statements about it. I don't care enough about Buddhism to care. It's just another religion. THen why waste so much bandwidth on something you 'don't care' about, hmmm ? You lie then you claim not to care... what else do you lie about Dave? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Jeff Posted May 19, 2007 Author Share Posted May 19, 2007 Nope, I'm definitely not a fundie. Well.... according to your definition, you are. I'm not arrogant enough to think that my beliefs equal "The Truth". Yet you have stated many times that you firmly believe that ghosts exist. I don't feel a need to have others (or everybody in the entire world) believe as I do. I don't feel a need to threaten others who believe differently than I do with an eternity in a really hot place presided over by a talking reptile if they don't change their views to make me happy. I don't feel a need to accuse others who believe differently than I do of being delusional or mentally ill. I don't feel a need to accuse people who have experiences that I think can't happen or who encounter realities that I think don't exist of somehow magically managing to misinterpret their own personal experiences (in other words, I'm not closed-minded). I don't feel a need to insult and belittle others because they hold beliefs that are different from mine. I think people should be free to believe as they choose or to believe as they must due to experiences and/or information that has defined and shaped them and their thinking as long as they are not hurting themselves or others without needing to fear being personally attacked or ridiculed for their beliefs. I believe that the many differing beliefs people hold and their many different reasons for holding their differing beliefs helps to make the world a very interesting place. So no, I'm definitely not a fundie. I abhor fundamentalism in all forms, and I'm probably about as anti-fundie as you can get. Yet according to your short version of what a fundie is, you definitely qualify. And from what I've read here, you mind sure seems to be closed on the subject of ghosts. You claim that you and your family have had multiple encounters with them. So, are you open to the explanations of what you believe you saw, or are you sticking with the ghosts? Again, nope, I am definitely not a fundie. I don't meet the definition of one in any way, shape, or form and since I'm not a fundie I don't feel a need to abhor myself. But, you are welcome to believe otherwise if you wish. It's pretty obvious that nothing I could possibly say would change your mind on the subject anyway. End of discussion on the subject, at least as far as I'm concerned. It's just not something worth arguing over, in my opinion. Sorry if this seems like unnecessary nit-picking, but I haven't made a "claim" that me and my family have had encounters with ghosts. I have related the fact that we have. I know what I have seen on more than one occasion during my lifetime (ghosts), so I'll probably be sticking with that fact. But sure, I'm still interested in hearing your opinion of what you think that I really saw. If your opinion sounds plausible to me, then of course I'll consider it. That automatically indicates that my mind is not closed on the subject because if it was, I wouldn't be willing to even consider alternative explanations, correct? I don't know what ghosts are for sure and I don't know that they necessarily require a supernatural explanation. I just know that they exist because I have seen them on more than one occasion, though the last time was years ago. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AtheistMommy Posted May 19, 2007 Share Posted May 19, 2007 I'm observing a pattern here... Yes, and it's referred to as "denial." And what is it that I am allegedly denying? Inquiring minds want to know... I've already told you, a few other people here have told you and yet you continue to deny it. Just think for a minute, what have you been denying? I don't think I can make any of this any clearer for you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Posted May 19, 2007 Share Posted May 19, 2007 THen why waste so much bandwidth on something you 'don't care' about, Why would you care? Oh.... I know..... you just want to argue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Legion Posted May 19, 2007 Share Posted May 19, 2007 THen why waste so much bandwidth on something you 'don't care' about, Why would you care? Oh.... I know..... you just want to argue. Oh and like you don't Dave! Dave and Gramps, two curmudgeons in a tree! k.. i.. s.. s.. i.. n.. g.. First comes love then comes marriage then comes the baby in the rocking carriage! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Jeff Posted May 19, 2007 Author Share Posted May 19, 2007 I'm observing a pattern here... Yes, and it's referred to as "denial." And what is it that I am allegedly denying? Inquiring minds want to know... I've already told you, a few other people here have told you and yet you continue to deny it. Just think for a minute, what have you been denying? I don't think I can make any of this any clearer for you. Of course I continue to deny the (absurd) accusation that I am a fundie because it's simply not the case. I will say this again because it is worth repeating, though I will no doubt be wasting my time and energy typing it out. I do not even remotely resemble a fundie of any sort in any way, shape, or form. I'm me, I know how I think and what I believe (and why I do so), and I am (to repeat it yet again) most definitely not even close to being a fundie of any sort. It's glaringly obvious that nothing I could possibly say could convince you otherwise though, so believe whatever you wish about me. As we are no longer friends (and it became crystal clear to me recently that you were never really my friend given your responses on the Yahoo group), I don't give a damn what you think or why you think it. Have I made myself clear? End of conversation. You have managed to seriously piss me off anyway since you chose to make the events that occurred on the Yahoo group public here. That was wrong, you should know that, and you owe me an apology. I'm not holding my breath expecting to actually get one, but that doesn't change the fact that it's owed to me. You just can't stand the fact that I don't share your beliefs (and for good reason), so you come here and stir up shit apparently simply to try to make my life more difficult. I have news for you. I'm not doing this. I'm simply not going there. I have better things to do with my time and my energy. Sorry if that doesn't make you happy. Tough shit. I'm done. Deal with it. Edit: BTW, AtheistMommy, you've officially been ignored. I won't see your posts and I don't really care what you have to say. Just FYI... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lycorth Posted May 19, 2007 Share Posted May 19, 2007 But what is "way too much of their Atheism?" When they can't even get along with fellow non-xians and behave as if they have a chip on their shoulders, all on the non-issue of the existence of any gods. Or, in other words, when they act like Xians, even though they are not. Can't stand that shit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grandpa Harley Posted May 19, 2007 Share Posted May 19, 2007 THen why waste so much bandwidth on something you 'don't care' about, Why would you care? Oh.... I know..... you just want to argue. Oh and like you don't Dave! Dave and Gramps, two curmudgeons in a tree! k.. i.. s.. s.. i.. n.. g.. First comes love then comes marriage then comes the baby in the rocking carriage! With tongues, big boy... WITH TONGUES Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Evolution_beyond Posted May 19, 2007 Share Posted May 19, 2007 I don't care enough about Buddhism to care. With all due respect, if you don't care enough about something to care whether you are saying true or untrue things about it then why say anything at all. Doesn't what you've just said make you a self-confessed ignoramus? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grandpa Harley Posted May 19, 2007 Share Posted May 19, 2007 THen why waste so much bandwidth on something you 'don't care' about, Why would you care? Oh.... I know..... you just want to argue. Not really 'argue' more point out that your selective, bitching, posts, coupled with your loud, very proud ignorance, of the form 'I can't be bothered to read that since it may actually challenge my world view' is tiresome and noisy. I don't argue with your sort, but I will point out that, in around 90% of conversations you add nothing but noise. You have that right and I have the right to point it up... Deal. Having said that, when you're not being a damned evangelical skeptic, you do make some excellent points, despite the general level of intellectual idleness you exhibit the rest of the time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trashy Posted May 19, 2007 Share Posted May 19, 2007 This seems like a good time and place to make a point. Trolls - don't feed them and they eventually go away. until they do, use the 'ignore' feature - it will help your blood pressure And - if you just ignore someone - the rest of us don't have to wade through all the off-topic posts! See, it's great for all involved. Cheers! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Posted May 19, 2007 Share Posted May 19, 2007 I don't care enough about Buddhism to care. With all due respect, if you don't care enough about something to care whether you are saying true or untrue things about it then why say anything at all. I have said nothing untrue about Buddhism. Many BELIEVERS in that religion disagree, but then you can expect that with any religion. I don't care to delve into the minutia of any religion be it buddhism or christianity. As proven here all one gets from them is a bunch of lies, doublespeak, groupspeak, and a hell of a lot of twisting words. I have no interest in any of that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Posted May 19, 2007 Share Posted May 19, 2007 THen why waste so much bandwidth on something you 'don't care' about, Why would you care? Oh.... I know..... you just want to argue. Not really 'argue' more point out that your selective, bitching, posts, coupled with your loud, very proud ignorance, ..... Now isn't that the pot calling the kettle black. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Posted May 19, 2007 Share Posted May 19, 2007 Trolls - don't feed them and they eventually go away. That's true. Plonk. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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