DaveL Posted June 15, 2005 Share Posted June 15, 2005 We obviously must be getting through to you. You've switched from existence to evolution. Aaryn did you ever do Biology at school or University? There appears to be a distinct lack of understanding from fundies over this topic. Why? It runs contrary to their beliefs, so lets play dumb and refute it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aaryn101 Posted June 15, 2005 Share Posted June 15, 2005 Aaryn101........ I specifically asked in my beginning post, kindly, that I DID NOT want this thread to turn into another one on evolution. Would you please stick to the purpose of the thread instead of ignoring me? <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Even though the veritability of evolution does heavily correlate to the existence of the Christian God as the only God, i will adhere to your request. I am done with this topic anyway, having spoken my part. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
white_raven23 Posted June 15, 2005 Share Posted June 15, 2005 Even though the veritability of evolution does heavily correlate to the existence of the Christian God as the only God, i will adhere to your request. I am done with this topic anyway, having spoken my part. I belieeeeeve that's fundy-speak for: "You win" That is of course the closest we'll get to hearing those words. He doesn't like our game so he's taking his ball and going home. Bye-Bye. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mythra Posted June 15, 2005 Share Posted June 15, 2005 "sigh" - too bad he left. Might have been fun. I had to smile when I read his posts, the conviction, the assuredness. Could have been me about a year ago. Too bad he left. I wanted to talk about prophecies. Like Jesus' prophecy to Caiaphas that he would not taste death until he saw the Son of Man coming in the clouds. Evidently Caiaphas is still around. Maybe he lives down in Sun City. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amanda Posted June 15, 2005 Share Posted June 15, 2005 I'm anxiously awaiting some "logical" answers. BTW..."God has always just been..." will not work. When I was a fundy I used that one on my 10 year old son, he didn't buy it. I then tired to force him to accept it by faith, however, he still was not willing to accept it. So please, logical answers only, and please stay on topic/. Do not turn this around to disprove evolution, etc. Thanks. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> How about if I give some scientific data that God has always been? Are you familiar with a gentleman named Stephen Hawkins? He is considered by most to be like a modern-day Einstien. Hawkins is not affiliated to any religous group, as I know. His evaluation and calculations point to the theory that there is no beginning and there is no end, everything always has been... hence, you may suggest no creator? No... not as I see it. Perhaps everything is part of the creator, and generally... EVERYTHING does create something else... and further, there is a suggested cycle to existence. The Big Bang is the popular theory, it is also believed that the universe will expand only so far before it will start collapsing back into itself... and then the collapsing will eventually cause so much density that the pressure will cause another Big Bang! (Separating the heavens and the earth?) God is the beginning, the end, and everything in between. He set forth his creation into motion and is reconciling it back to himself. Science now points to no beginning, no end, no time... perhaps that is why God just left it as "I am" and has always been and will always be..... yet remember, there is no time according to Einstien. Perhaps we are ALL in the same "boat" (God) together? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mythra Posted June 15, 2005 Share Posted June 15, 2005 Well now, that is interesting. Theories that point to the universe having a beginning prove God. Theories that point to an eternal universe prove God. The only one that will convince me is if they can prove that the stars are tiny specks that are imbedded into the firmament (like a huge ceiling) above the earth. Then I'll believe in God again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scotter Posted June 15, 2005 Share Posted June 15, 2005 Mythra, You are a strong minded, strong worded woman, and you spared Amanda. Look at her tone, Amanda is responding to share what she thinks, and not to prove to anyone, to convince anyone. Indeed I agree Amanda's point is interesting. I like to see Stephen Hawkin's readers supplement. And it is good that you continue to post, Amanda. Scotter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vulgaris Prime Posted June 15, 2005 Share Posted June 15, 2005 How about if I give some scientific data that God has always been? Are you familiar with a gentleman named Stephen Hawkins? He is considered by most to be like a modern-day Einstien. Hawkins is not affiliated to any religous group, as I know. His evaluation and calculations point to the theory that there is no beginning and there is no end, everything always has been... hence, you may suggest no creator? No... not as I see it. I believe you're talking about Prof. Stephen Hawking. And yes, he's one brilliant SOB. But his ideas have nothing to do with your religious beliefs. That you believe that his calculations imply a creator is your business, but I'd bet he'd have a few things to say about it. Perhaps everything is part of the creator, and generally... EVERYTHING does create something else... and further, there is a suggested cycle to existence. The Big Bang is the popular theory, it is also believed that the universe will expand only so far before it will start collapsing back into itself... and then the collapsing will eventually cause so much density that the pressure will cause another Big Bang! (Separating the heavens and the earth?) Everything gets crunched. "Stars, planets, tofu hot dogs..." (100 stolen no-points for the reference) God is the beginning, the end, and everything in between. He set forth his creation into motion and is reconciling it back to himself. Science now points to no beginning, no end, no time... perhaps that is why God just left it as "I am" and has always been and will always be..... yet remember, there is no time according to Einstien. Perhaps we are ALL in the same "boat" (God) together? <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Now you're getting into the unproven. Your statement there is all faith, no filling. Truth be told, I ain't buyin' it. But that's me. You're trying to shoehorn your beliefs into everything, and that's territory you don't want to tread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mythra Posted June 15, 2005 Share Posted June 15, 2005 Scotter; me and amanda got history. she's o.k. but, does my avatar look like a fuckin woman?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scotter Posted June 15, 2005 Share Posted June 15, 2005 No, not from your avatar. In other threads you are exchanging opinions with others like Boudica, the British Isles Warrior Queen who fought the Romans. Strong willed is a quality, for woman and for man. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ouroboros Posted June 15, 2005 Share Posted June 15, 2005 Scotter; me and amanda got history. she's o.k. but, does my avatar look like a fuckin woman?? No, but it could look like you are fucking a woman! (Sorry kids for my swinglish misuse of the beautiful English language) [edit] I'll put my head in the sand, and go quiet now... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dogmatically_challenged Posted June 15, 2005 Share Posted June 15, 2005 That statement.... makes... no... sense!!! How can something exist before time begins? How can there be a "before time"? <{POST_SNAPBACK}> It takes time for processes to procede. Thinking is dependant on time and so god is dependant on time. He could not create anything without time. It always takes time to do stuff. hehe. The theist will never look deep enough into scientific theories because it is too scary for them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ouroboros Posted June 15, 2005 Share Posted June 15, 2005 It takes time for processes to procede. Thinking is dependant on time and so god is dependant on time. He could not create anything without time. That is something I had planned to start a topic on later on. Damn you took it from me. Can God really have a consciousness? Since thinking requires slices of time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
white_raven23 Posted June 15, 2005 Share Posted June 15, 2005 How about if I give some scientific data that God has always been? Are you familiar with a gentleman named Stephen Hawkins? He is considered by most to be like a modern-day Einstien. Hawkins is not affiliated to any religous group, as I know. His evaluation and calculations point to the theory that there is no beginning and there is no end, everything always has been... hence, you may suggest no creator? No... not as I see it. Perhaps everything is part of the creator, and generally... EVERYTHING does create something else... and further, there is a suggested cycle to existence. The Big Bang is the popular theory, it is also believed that the universe will expand only so far before it will start collapsing back into itself... and then the collapsing will eventually cause so much density that the pressure will cause another Big Bang! (Separating the heavens and the earth?) God is the beginning, the end, and everything in between. He set forth his creation into motion and is reconciling it back to himself. Science now points to no beginning, no end, no time... perhaps that is why God just left it as "I am" and has always been and will always be..... yet remember, there is no time according to Einstien. Perhaps we are ALL in the same "boat" (God) together? Good post. While it does indeed indicate the possibility of god, it still doesn't point specifically to the reality of the christian god. Which was the topic Thankful originally posted. Is there tangible evidence (by tangible I mean beyond the badly written book) of the christian god? I don't believe there is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dogmatically_challenged Posted June 15, 2005 Share Posted June 15, 2005 That is something I had planned to start a topic on later on. Damn you took it from me. Can God really have a consciousness? Since thinking requires slices of time. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Soory Hans. I thought it was on topic because if god is dependent on time then god must either be the universe or god had a creater himself if we take all his omnipresence into account as well as his dependance on time. occams razor is a bitch. The universe can be uncreated as well and the god concept outside of the universe leads to more questions. hehe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mythra Posted June 15, 2005 Share Posted June 15, 2005 Side note: hey doggie. haven't seen ya for a couple days. I was wondering, if I can't see scotter's avatar, maybe he can't see mine. In that case, all is forgiven, Scotter. . My marine dude does kinda look like he's in the throes of a 'gasm, though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ouroboros Posted June 15, 2005 Share Posted June 15, 2005 Soory Hans. I thought it was on topic because if god is dependent on time then god must either be the universe or god had a creater himself if we take all his omnipresence into account as well as his dependance on time. occams razor is a bitch. hehe Oh, don't be sorry. We should start the topic though, "Can God Think, or is he a mindless bastard?" Occam made a lot from that razor of his. keep on cutting me self... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dogmatically_challenged Posted June 15, 2005 Share Posted June 15, 2005 Oh, don't be sorry. We should start the topic though, "Can God Think, or is he a mindless bastard?" Occam made a lot from that razor of his. keep on cutting me self... <{POST_SNAPBACK}> I want to learn about the concept of god as being the univeres uncreated. I am working on that because I think it would be a real hoot to play a theist in a debate with you guys. It would be really cool. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mythra Posted June 15, 2005 Share Posted June 15, 2005 Occam's razor. Seen it a lot here. Looked it up but didn't really get it. Layman's definition, please. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mythra Posted June 15, 2005 Share Posted June 15, 2005 Here we go, hijackin another thread. Sorry thankful. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dogmatically_challenged Posted June 15, 2005 Share Posted June 15, 2005 Occams razor is to accept the simplest explanation based on the evidences and logic. Any more explanations beyond what is needed is uaually nonsense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ouroboros Posted June 15, 2005 Share Posted June 15, 2005 Occam's razor. Seen it a lot here. Looked it up but didn't really get it. Layman's definition, please. Of two or more explanations, the one that is the simplest one, is usually the correct one. The law of simplicity. Also called: the parsimony principle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dogmatically_challenged Posted June 15, 2005 Share Posted June 15, 2005 Of two or more explanations, the one that is the simplest one, is usually the correct one. The law of simplicity. Also called: the parsimony principle. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Yea. this is the accurate yet understandable answer. Thanks Hans. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scotter Posted June 15, 2005 Share Posted June 15, 2005 Thankful, White Raven and all, A reference on debate on CHRISTIAN God by Gastrich (pro) and Krueger (against) http://www.iidb.org/vbb/showthread.php?t=118609 Hope that URL helps. On a fair say, Krueger is doing better. p.s. if you skip to last page, Gastrich is late. If he is going to be silent after the grace period, Krueger wins. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dogmatically_challenged Posted June 15, 2005 Share Posted June 15, 2005 Thankful, White Raven and all, A reference on debate on CHRISTIAN God by Gastrich (pro) and Krueger (against) http://www.iidb.org/vbb/showthread.php?t=118609 Hope that URL helps. On a fair say, Krueger is doing better. p.s. if you skip to last page, Gastrich is late. If he is going to be silent after the grace period, Krueger wins. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Gastrich? Yuk! He is very dishonest and deserves no attention fron Christians and atheists alike. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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