Prove that Christian God is the Creator and...

[Ouroboros]

After all, in Genesis, god takes 6 whole days to make everything. Why did this take as long as that? If this is god, truly god, then why didn't it just all happen in less than the blink of an eye? Was the creation of all things too complicated for god? That makes no sense.

 

And of course on the seventh day god rested. WHAT FOR??!!! God got tired?

Niiiiice! I didn’t think of that angle before. That’s a new one.

 

The bible taints the view of god.....and justifies it by stating we were made in his image.

That is a perfect description!

 

[Amanda]

I’m pretty sure you know the books in the Bible were selected with majority votes, right?

So they went thru books and the books most Bishops agreed on, were elected to be part of the Bible. So God speaks through majority. Now who selected the Bishops to speak for God? It was pretty much themselves. So how trustworthy is their judgment to select the right books? That’s up to you to decide, you are putting your life in the hands of people you never met and never will meet, because you just blindly trust them.

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I understand somewhat the cannonization process. That's what I like about you guys, you search for truth with a critical mind and stand in it as you perceive it to be. I like that, because the foundations on which one stands determines the stability of the structure... yet you are secure in your belefs to be open minded to the questioning of them... and I hope I am doing the same.

 

I usually study the KJV, researching from which it was derived via the Strong Concordance... researching each word back to its prime root meaning and evaluating how the word evolved to get a more comprehensive meaning.

 

I do not just trust them! I evaluate the principle and find if it has merit or not, if it gives substance to who I am and helps me cope in a manner that gives integrity to my structure and allows me to maneuver through the world in a manner that keeps me from stumbling and falling. If those principles work in my life now, then how is it my trust in it is blind? It has already been validated by the time it has my trust!

 

It seems to me, in many ways we are alike.

[Amanda]

No no sweetheart,

 

Nothing at all against you personally. I fully respect your spirituality. It's your religion I detest. Spirituality and religion are not the same thing.

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Well White_Raven23, we DO agree on this! Spirituality and religion are definitely not the same thing! BTW, thanks for assuring me it wasn't personal.

[bluewizard]

God has been around since before time began.  Quite obviously, the world is not infinitely old... and any scientist will tell you that.  At some point, something had to happen for everything begin.  According to the Big Bang, the universe was created as a result of an explosion that hurled matter in all directions.  But just where, do scientists think, that this matter came from?!  Christians propose that God created the universe.

  Nobody created God, God has always existed.  If he was created, then he wouldnt be God now would he?

 

" In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth.

  Now the earth was formless and empty, darkness was over the surface of the deep, and the Spirit of God was hovering over the waters. "  Genesis 1:1-2

 

  God was there at the beginning, God was there before the beginning.  No scientific proof can exist, as the date would be too many years back.  And science did not even exist before the creation of the world, so how can it be used to judge whether or not God was always there?

 

4 "Where were you when I laid the earth's foundation?

    Tell me, if you understand.

 

    5 Who marked off its dimensions? Surely you know!

    Who stretched a measuring line across it?

 

    6 On what were its footings set,

    or who laid its cornerstone-

 

    7 while the morning stars sang together

    and all the angels [a] shouted for joy? "

  -Job 38:4-7

 

Job questioned God's infinite wisdom, and God questioned right back.

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I can counter that by saying if a God came from natural processes, which you believe, then why wouldn't the universe? Just cause a book tells you something doesn't mean anything of truthfulness. I could say kill all xtian people in a muslim book and they may do it(not being prejudice, just making an example) Trust what is available and truth than something not. I don't believe in the adam and eve story, evolution may be right, i don't know, when my life is over will i be in a deep sleep or what? Answers not proof of being true vs answers being true.

[Mythra]

I found this quote to be kinda ironic. This seemed like a good thread to put it in.

Evidently, the Bible's version of creation has been in question for awhile.

 

This is written by Celsus, who was a Greek satirist who was devoted to exposing Christianity in his writings. This was written around 180CE

 

"God banishes man from the garden made specifically to contain him. Silly as that may be, sillier still is the way the world is supposed to have come about. They allot certain days to creation, before days existed. For when heaven had not been made, or the earth fixed or the sun set in the heavens, how could days exist? Isn't it absurd to think that the greatest God pieced out his work like a bricklayer, saying, "Today I shall do this, tomorrow that," and so on, so that he did this on the third, that on the fourth, and something else on the fifth and sixth days! We are thus not surprised to find that, like a common workman, this God wears himself down and so needs a holiday after six days. Need I comment that a God who gets tired, works with his hands, and gives orders like a foreman is not acting very much like a God?"

 

end quote

 

Things haven't changed much in the last 2,000 years.

 

Do you suppose 2,000 years from now, fundies will still be swearin up and down that this story of creation is the real deal?

[Guest marktaylor]

What?  No Christian takers?  Could it be because there is no proof????

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There is no proof in the Bible. However, I found one miracle. A mile high pile of chauvinistic crap!

[chefranden]

...Could the original 'sin' be that we blamed God, someone else, or the devil made me do it instead of being accountable and responsible for our own actions? ... 

 

Original sin is a myth that comes from the beginnings of totalitarian agriculture. Read Ishmael by Daniel Quinn.

[Amanda]

Original sin is a myth that comes from the beginnings of totalitarian agriculture.  Read Ishmael by Daniel Quinn.

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Hey My Friend, Chefranden... and I AM SO GLAD TO KNOW YOU ARE MY FRIEND!

 

It seems to me that original sin is a complex issue. It is supposedly what has separated us from God.

 

Consider this... what does the knowledge of good and evil produce (fruit)? The ability to judge, no? That gives us the ability to reason, and is also the spark of civilization... so I estimate it happened 50,000 to 60,000 years ago and is aligned with the crowmagnum man perhaps. Adam is a prototype, not an individual... as is crowmagnum man. Anyway, before mankind had the ability to reason, he/she operated out of instinct... a connection to God, no? Bear with me here...

 

When Eve (another connotation for the prototype of the females that began to take on unique roles, separate from males, crowmagnum era) contemplated that she was not like God, not knowing good and evil... she ate of judgement by mere contemplation of the value of herself being not as good as God! It was to the side of condemnation of herself though... a misconception (sin) she unwittingly undertook. This new found ability to reason took her out of the instinctual nature, hence... not connected to God. (It's a good thing) Adam noticed this change in the female companion and decided to reason himself... and his eyes were open and saw he was naked... original text for naked says he saw that he was subtle, crafty, and came from an animal like nature... whaaaala, the spark of civilization, that's why I assume it is in the crowmagnum era. The original sin, I think, is condemnation... in that Adam is the first to purposefully blamed his new understanding of his state of affairs on God and Eve, and then Eve blamed the devil. Has things changed? We still seem to blame someone else, God, or the devil made me do it... except for those fine folks on THIS site.

[Amanda]

Good point, and correct, there are no "original texts".

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There is a text in which the King James team interpreted.

[Amanda]

Original sin is a myth that comes from the beginnings of totalitarian agriculture.  Read Ishmael by Daniel Quinn.

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I apologize for my last post... what I should of just said... it seems to me, the only unforgiveable sin that brings death is condemnation... accentuated with the lack of respect for its accountability or responsiblity.

[Amanda]

No no sweetheart,

I'm hoping you will see that your faith is really not as centered on that book as you think it is. After all, don't you find a religion requiring a book to lead you to god a little suspicious? To be using the experiences of others (that would be hearsey in a court of law) as a guide to what should rightly be YOUR own path?

 

By hashing and rehashing the bible text over and over, you are blinding and deafening yourself to possibilities of god that don't fit in that little book. The book itself limits god's abilities. He's depicted as a superbeing (not a supreme being)with flaws that while normal among people, are bloodchilling in respect to the source of all things.

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Thanks White_Raven for that wonderful revelation! Of course the Bible isn't the only source to Truth, or to an experience with spirituality! The ten virgins with the lamps, and five had the oil, reveal that. The ten new the law, that's why they were virgins, and the lamps is the Bible, but you can't have 'light' without the oil. The oil is the experience through the Holy Spirit (Spirituality) with God. My son loves Michael Jordan, has read about EVERYTHING on this guy, but if he doesn't have a personal experience with him... Michael Jordan is going to say it is as if he never knew my son. So it is with the Bible.

[chefranden]

I apologize for my last post... what I should of just said... it seems to me, the only unforgiveable sin that brings death is condemnation... accentuated with the lack of respect for its accountability or responsiblity.

Did you read the link, Amanda? Have you read Ishmael?

 

I think not because your answers don't seem to be even remotely conected to the content. I don't mind esoteric answers, but holy cow girl make sure the plug lands close enough to the fish for him to see it.

[Amanda]

I found this quote to be kinda ironic.  This seemed like a good thread to put it in.

Evidently, the Bible's version of creation has been in question for awhile.

 

This is written by Celsus, who was a Greek satirist who was devoted to exposing Christianity in his writings.  This was written around 180CE

 

Do you suppose 2,000 years from now, fundies will still be swearin up and down that this story of creation is the real deal?

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Mythra... there you go... I'm surprised at you taking everything so literal... and to the KJV at that! It was meant for those that have an ear to hear... let them hear. Truth is Truth. They do not contradict! Adam was made from the dust... I now know amino acids is a more appropriate name than dust. Give the author a break, it was about 6,000 years ago they wrote it! Mankind separated their roles, one to man and another to woman, and took judgement produced by the knowledge of good and evil... creating civilization (crowmangnim era). OH, we're just now figuring this out today in the scientific community?! The whole book of the Bible is about teaching man to stand upright. Hello? And Darwin is given all the credit? There's many hidden Truths to those who have ears!

 

There are many paths to Truth...

 

Mythra... I like ya', ya' know that... right?

[Amanda]

Did you read the link, Amanda?  Have you read Ishmael?

 

I think not because your answers don't seem to be even remotely conected to the content.  I don't mind esoteric answers, but holy cow girl make sure the plug lands close enough to the fish for him to see it.

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When I click on your site, it says 'get a job, work till you're sixty, then move to Florida.' I assume it is a mistake. Are you coming here to Florida? We'd love to have ya'! Otherwise, I'm confused... and somehow I think you are not surprised that I am. Is it something to really do with Ishmael?

[Mythra]

Mythra... there you go... I'm surprised at you taking everything so literal... and to the KJV at that! It was meant for those that have an ear to hear... let them hear. Truth is Truth. They do not contradict! Adam was made from the dust... I now know amino acids is a more appropriate name than dust. Give the author a break, it was about 6,000 years ago they wrote it! Mankind separated their roles, one to man and another to woman, and took judgement produced by the knowledge of good and evil... creating civilization (crowmangnim era). OH, we're just now figuring this out today in the scientific community?! The whole book of the Bible is about teaching man to stand upright. Hello? And Darwin is given all the credit? There's many hidden Truths to those who have ears!

 

There are many paths to Truth...

 

Mythra... I like ya', ya' know that... right?

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I don't have a clue what you are talking about, Amanda. This was a quote from Celsus in 180 CE. And I'm pretty sure he wasn't getting his information from the King James Version of the bible.

 

If you are talking about my closing sentence, I said fundies. As in fundamental christians. All fundamental christians take the creation story literally. Six days working, then one day to rest. period.

 

I know damn good and well you don't consider yourself a fundie.

[Vixentrox]

Mythra... there you go... I'm surprised at you taking everything so literal... and to the KJV at that! It was meant for those that have an ear to hear... let them hear. Truth is Truth. They do not contradict! Adam was made from the dust... I now know amino acids is a more appropriate name than dust. Give the author a break, it was about 6,000 years ago they wrote it! Mankind separated their roles, one to man and another to woman, and took judgement produced by the knowledge of good and evil... creating civilization (crowmangnim era). OH, we're just now figuring this out today in the scientific community?! The whole book of the Bible is about teaching man to stand upright. Hello? And Darwin is given all the credit? There's many hidden Truths to those who have ears!

 

There are many paths to Truth...

 

Mythra... I like ya', ya' know that... right?

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Give the author a break it was 6000 years ago? Hmmm...I thought god was the author. He didn't forsee the advent of science and technology enough to put the words in appropriate language? He didn't make his words clear for all people of all times? What a miserable excuse for a god you have.

[Cerise]

thankful, you and I are in complete accordance upon the subject of Amanda.

[Mythra]

Thanks, thankful. Count me in agreement too.

 

Amanda: Since I think that the Wholly Babble is the single greatest deception ever perpetrated on mankind, why would I care about going back to the original texts?

 

The NT set back the advancement of civilization by 1,800 years.

 

I don't care about increasing my harmonic vibrations. I don't want to get to know my inner child. I don't want christ in me. My higher self can each shit and die. I like my lower self just fine.

 

No offense (or take offense), whatever. You're not a christian as anyone here understands the term.

 

I didn't come here to make friends. I came here to sort through the crap, and as near as I can tell, you just have a newer, user friendly version of it.

[Mythra]

p.s. amanda

 

It's like putting frosting and candles on a dog turd. Looks nice, but it's still a dog turd.

 

I know, I'm a cretin, as dogomatic says, so what of it? hehe

[Amanda]

Hello Thankful... and I am thankful for your many comments... much of which I'm sure is deserved. I did think that this was an arena in which people could express their own ideas? You did, and I appreciate them... I learn a lot from you and others on this site.

 

If you can't take the bible literally, then to me, you have zilch of a leg to stand.  Christianity is definately more a myth if you can't take the bible literally.

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Jesus pleads with most of the religous right to PLEASE look at the intentions and purpose of the law and not the 'letter' (literal interpretation) of the law... as the letter of the law kills.

Maybe I am a little off here because I don't see anyone complaining but I'm going to.  I think your tone is one of which if we don't agree with Amandianity that we have been deceived by Christianity.

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Oh, there are a LOT of people on this site that believe like you, and they seem publicly supportive that someone finally said what they think also. I appreciate that... it seems that is what makes you all real and not fake.

No, I don't want you to agree with amandianity, I just hope to contribute another perspective that in many ways seems to conclude the same thing as much of you here.

  You are slamming and insulting in a "sweet" way, our understanding of the Bible.

 

If you believe that Jesus is not the ONLY way, then you are not a true "christian".

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My deepest apologies Thankful, if I miscommunicated that I was slamming or insulting your beliefs. I am very respectful of your beliefs and others. Further, my desire is to never insult you... what could I possibly have against you or anyone here? Again, I apologize if I came accross as derrogatory towards you or Mythra or anyone here... I assumed we could say how we see things and yet ultimately we can still agree to disagree and still like those that don't believe just like ourselves.

 

It just seems to me that there are many paths to Truth, which I personally believe is the same thing Jesus ultimately represented, and His ways, His Truths, are the ways to the power of 'God'. Perhaps, I, like you, believe what I believe... based on my understandings... yet I in no way imply that my understandings are the best and only ones.

 

Here's a couple of scriptures to show you what god is really about....New International Version

 

Exodus 1:20 So God was kind to the midwives and the people increased and became even more numerous. 21 And BECAUSE the midwives FEARED God, he gave them families of their own.

 

Exodus 20 19 and said to Moses, "Speak to us yourself and we will listen. But do not have God speak to us or we will die." 20 Moses said to the people, "Do not be afraid. God has come to test you, so that THE FEAR of God will be with you to keep you from sinning."

 

Leviticus 25 17 Do not take advantage of each other, but fear your God. I am the LORD your God. 18 " 'Follow my decrees and be careful to obey my laws,AND you will live safely in the land.

 

Deuteronomy 6 1 These are the commands, decrees and laws the LORD your God directed me to teach you to observe in the land that you are crossing the Jordan to possess, 2 so that you, your children and their children after them may FEAR the LORD your God as long as you live by keeping ALL his decrees and commands that I give you, and so that you may enjoy long life. 3 Hear, O Israel, and be careful to obey so that it may go well with you and that you may increase greatly in a land flowing with milk and honey, just as the LORD, the God of your fathers, promised you. Hmmm..."LONG LIFE" not eternal life.  Also notice that you are to FEAR GOD FIRST and then the first and most important commandment is LOVE GOD.

 

Deuteronomy 6 24 The LORD commanded us to obey all these decrees and to FEAR the LORD our God, so that we might always prosper and be kept alive, as is the case today. 25 And if we are careful to obey all this law before the LORD our God, as he has commanded us, that will be our righteousness."

 

Psalm 19:9The FEAR of the LORD is pure, enduring forever. The ordinances of the LORD are sure and altogether righteous.

 

Psalm 25 14 The LORD confides in those who FEAR him; he makes his covenant known to them. (Amanda, do you fear the Lord...has he confided in you the revelations that you say we should all see??)

 

Psalm 33 8 Let all the earth FEAR the LORD; let all the people of the world revere him.

 

Proverbs 15 33 The FEAR of the LORD teaches a man wisdom, [a] and humility comes before honor.

 

Fear and love do not mean the same thing.  God requires, as proven in NUMEROUS scriptures, (do a search yourself and see) that you FEAR him AND obey ALL his commands.

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Thankful, I would like to humbly respond without any implication that I do not value or appreciate your interpretations to the verses sited here, as I value your discourse very much! Having said that, it seems to me that language has evolved to be much more decisively articulate. It is my beliefs that the words then had more meanings than the obvious one to us. I would just purpose that perhaps the meaning of fear, here in the verses you site, is the same as 'an intense valued respect'... as I can see, at this time, that these two can be very similar to a less articulate culture. Ultimately, I hope we can agree to disagree without harboring any discontent for each other. Whatever happens, it seems to me that you will always be real and not a fake.

[Ouroboros]

It just seems to me that there are many paths to Truth, which I personally believe is the same thing Jesus ultimately represented, and His ways, His Truths, are the ways to the power of 'God'. Perhaps, I, like you, believe what I believe... based on my understandings... yet I in no way imply that my understandings are the best and only ones.

I don’t want to add to you burden of all the comments and questions directed to you, but I just want to add that it sounds you have a bit of Buddhist way of seeing your faith. Basically if you follow Buddha correctly, you never followed Buddha. Everyone picks their own path to faith and enlightenment.

[Cerise]

It just seems to me that there are many paths to Truth, which I personally believe is the same thing Jesus ultimately represented, and His ways, His Truths, are the ways to the power of 'God'. Perhaps, I, like you, believe what I believe... based on my understandings... yet I in no way imply that my understandings are the best and only ones.

 

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Can you justify this belief biblically? Was Jesus lying when he called himself THE way, THE truth, and THE light, and set down that no one comes to the Father except through him?

 

That doesn't sound like many paths to me.

[Amanda]

I don’t want to add to you burden of all the comments and questions directed to you, but I just want to add that it sounds you have a bit of Buddhist way of seeing your faith. Basically if you follow Buddha correctly, you never followed Buddha. Everyone picks their own path to faith and enlightenment.

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HanSolo, You a burden? NEVER! You're a refreshing insight that often goes far deeper than I can even fathom. I've read some of your other posts in these forums, and I am just amazed! It is believed that some of Jesus' lost years are spent with the Buddhist, and I have read where some suggest He is referred to in their spiritual manuscripts as llama Isas... not sure of spelling.

[Amanda]

Can you justify this belief biblically?  Was Jesus lying when he called himself THE way, THE truth, and THE light, and set down that no one comes to the Father except through him?

 

That doesn't sound like many paths to me.

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Hello Cerise...

 

Many different rivers ultimately go to the same ocean.

 

Mr 9:40 -

"For he who is not against us is on our side.

 

Lu 9:50 -

But Jesus said to him, "Do not forbid him, for he who is not against us is on our side."

 

Perhaps, the Way, the Truth, and the Light is ultimately made evident in each of us via our conscience... where I think our spirit of Jesus resides... helping to guide us to Truth... hence, the way to the power of God.

 

With warm regards-

[Ouroboros]

Mr 9:40 -

"For he who is not against us is on our side.

 

I wish Bush Jr. could see it that way, but he probably never read the Bible.