Checkmate Posted December 29, 2009 Author Share Posted December 29, 2009 I truly understand where you are coming from for I felt the same way many years ago. I am not saying that I have the answer, but I would like for you to look at my page. I see the Bible 180 degrees from what is taught by the main stream ministry. Check it out. www.propheticnewsforamerica.com Okay. I checked it out. At least I read the opening page. That sampling was more than sufficient for me to come to a conclusion and an observation. 1. I don't believe that you do "understand where I'm coming from". If you did, you'd be an atheist and quit attempting to defend an ancient and despicable mind virus. Your particular "ministry" is no different than every other fear-mongering, opportunistic, predatory Bible-thumper's. "Times are bad. The world is in the grip of Satan. We don't have much time left. Turn to Jesus. This has been a recording." Give me a break. 2. Once again [like many others before you] you have FAILED to even remotely address the point of this thread. [Here's a hint: SHOW ME A MIRACLE.] Don't waste my time with YOUR version of the X-tian fairy tale. NOT. INTERESTED. Man! I am getting so tired of Christians who seek to attain some spiritual high ground by distancing themselves from the herd. As if THAT will sway me. "But look! I'm not nearly as deluded as THAT group of nitwits. What I believe has been modified and updated. Bullshit v8.0!! Now accepting homosexuals and women preachers! See how progressive we are? WE see the Bible SO MUCH better than the rest. Won't you join us now?" Fuck no. Weirdo. P.S. [And this is for everyone who does this...] Don't quote and repost my ENTIRE OP. It wastes bandwidth. The webmaster will appreciate this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest end3 Posted January 7, 2010 Share Posted January 7, 2010 If I put a miracle out there, you would have to accept belief....which is not likely.....some noble stance you have taken.....idiot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shyone Posted January 7, 2010 Share Posted January 7, 2010 If I put a miracle out there, you would have to accept belief....which is not likely.....some noble stance you have taken.....idiot. The only problem is defining a "miracle" and then determining what it signifies. Was the landing on the Hudson a miracle? By some criteria, but it is called a miracle because it was good and rare (uncommon), not because of supernatural intervention. Spontaneous cures happen to believers and infidels alike at the same rate. I would have to say that a miracle, for me to beleive in the supernatural, would have to be 1) impossible, 2) easily verifiable (and repeatably verifiable), 3) clearly not related to the actions of humans, and maybe a couple of of other criteria. I'm thinking of stars aligning in the sky to spell out a message. 1. It is impossible because stars cannot exceed the speed of light 2. It is easily verifiable - with the naked eye 3. No human could do that. I can imagine there could be additional criteria to avoid the slippery apologist. One could, for example, select stars to spell a message without having them "move". This would entail ignoring stars that don't fit the pre-planned pattern. The irony is that I would still investigate the miracle. Could I have been fooled? David Copperfield made the Statue of Liberty "disappear" from one perspective, so check different perspectives. Mass hallucination? This could be double checked. Speed of movement? Did any astronomers see the stars actually move? And so on. This would be a really interesting thing to examine. I would be more likely to accept this as a message from God if the message written in the stars was, "Go Texas!" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest end3 Posted January 7, 2010 Share Posted January 7, 2010 I would be more likely to accept this as a message from God if the message written in the stars was, "Go Texas!" And then they win by a ninety two yard field goal scored against the wind by a one legged bare foot kicker named Jesus.....that would be "Hay soos", a recruit from an immigrant family from South Texas. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shyone Posted January 7, 2010 Share Posted January 7, 2010 I would be more likely to accept this as a message from God if the message written in the stars was, "Go Texas!" And then they win by a ninety two yard field goal scored against the wind by a one legged bare foot kicker named Jesus.....that would be "Hay soos", a recruit from an immigrant family from South Texas. As long as they win, I'm ok with that. Run, Jesus, Run! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lulukan Posted January 7, 2010 Share Posted January 7, 2010 Many Christians, if they have no answer to "put up" will say the following types of things: "Just keep praying, God will give you the answers in his time" "You just have to have faith" "God is good" "For some things we just have to trust God" (WTF does this MEAN??) "We have to seach the Bible for answers to that" "Blind faith is what God wants from us" Does anyone really, honestly think that these are answers to anything? Just my views. I am new here, so if this has been said often, I appologize that I have not had time to read all of the previous posts. :-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dagan Posted January 7, 2010 Share Posted January 7, 2010 I want to see an arm grow back. I want to see a dead person come back to life. I want to see a man who was blind from birth have his sight restored by someone spitting in his eyes, and nothing else. Maybe those were one-time-only deals though, and now all we have are crappy miracles, like amazing coincidences and things which might have been tumours disappearing from medical scans. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shyone Posted January 7, 2010 Share Posted January 7, 2010 Many Christians, if they have no answer to "put up" will say the following types of things: "Just keep praying, God will give you the answers in his time" "You just have to have faith" "God is good" "For some things we just have to trust God" (WTF does this MEAN??) "We have to seach the Bible for answers to that" "Blind faith is what God wants from us" Does anyone really, honestly think that these are answers to anything? Just my views. I am new here, so if this has been said often, I appologize that I have not had time to read all of the previous posts. :-) You have to wonder, though, why some people think these are good answers. The thread, however, is asking for something beyond subjective feelings, bible verses or platitudes that would actually support the existence or reality of the actual religion (god, jesus, miracles). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Checkmate Posted January 7, 2010 Author Share Posted January 7, 2010 If I put a miracle out there, you would have to accept belief....which is not likely.....some noble stance you have taken.....idiot. So, not only do you NOT have a miracle, you have the audacity to call me a liar and an idiot. Typical "Christian" behavior. When confronted with a challenge, deflect and dodge the issue, then insult the unbeliever. Precisely the response I expected when I began this thread, so I'm not at all disappointed, nor surprised. end3, go back to church and suck off your pastor, you posturing jack-ass. It's Christians like you who give your religion it's bad name and remind us all how "blessed" we are not to be counted one of you...idiot. [Funny. I just wrotet a post in another thread where "we atheists" were accused of being "hateful, close-minded and intolerant of Christians." And here I was made to believe that Christians were so loving, tolerant and full of the "Fruit of the Spirit." Not at all "mean and rude" like WE atheists. ] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest end3 Posted January 8, 2010 Share Posted January 8, 2010 If I put a miracle out there, you would have to accept belief....which is not likely.....some noble stance you have taken.....idiot. So, not only do you NOT have a miracle, you have the audacity to call me a liar and an idiot. Typical "Christian" behavior. When confronted with a challenge, deflect and dodge the issue, then insult the unbeliever. Precisely the response I expected when I began this thread, so I'm not at all disappointed, nor surprised. end3, go back to church and suck off your pastor, you posturing jack-ass. It's Christians like you who give your religion it's bad name and remind us all how "blessed" we are not to be counted one of you...idiot. [Funny. I just wrotet a post in another thread where "we atheists" were accused of being "hateful, close-minded and intolerant of Christians." And here I was made to believe that Christians were so loving, tolerant and full of the "Fruit of the Spirit." Not at all "mean and rude" like WE atheists. ] Yeah, yeah, yeah....heard it. I'm posturing? Your cowardly contentious bullshit is just that. If your so goddamn smart, define it to everyone's satisfaction and then wager your evil fucking stance with somthing other than your dick in your hand. prick. I wasteth my time on your moronic spoilage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kathlene Posted January 8, 2010 Share Posted January 8, 2010 From what I can gather in here is that everyone wants one of those far out miracles that supersede all physical abilities of humans. Fair enough I guess. They certainly might still happen, Im not sure. My musing out loud here is to offer up another suggestion. What if the presence of God in someone's life wasnt surrounded with fireworks and amazing growing of limbs, but more a gentle healing in that person's life and heart? Does that count? For me the presence of God in my life is more a love so out of this world that I could never deliver that sort of love on my own. I still cant, but I keep on trying and striving for it. That sort of love gets no respect in this world because it goes against the common agenda of our own selfish hearts and society. Just as Jesus stunned the masses with his idea of what love looked like back then, I guess a christian is meant to be the same way and live a life aiming for that. Is that a supernatural amazing spectacular miracle? Probably not. But if you looked in the hearts of a lot of people it could be. I know in my long christian walk there have been a few striking moments where I had such darkness in my heart over something, and then Gods presence showed me a better way and healed me. For example. I got married very young and really wanted a baby. My husband said yeah okay, but on the inside he was seething and didnt really want to. He had his own 5yr financial plan and that didnt include kids. He didnt communicate that to me at the time though. He was more passive and just went with the flow. So I became pregnant and here comes the passive aggressive behaviour from him. I was totally rejected by him in every way while I was pregnant in so many hurtful ways even up to the day of delivery. I was 20yrs old and he dropped me in the ward because I was being induced and said he had to go to work. Im like what the??? He came back hours later after my desperate phone call to say I needed him. Then proceeded to sleep most of the labour time. He came good during the actual delivery. When my son was born I loved him so much, but at the same time I rejected him in my heart. I felt embarrassed and ashamed of him because of the feelings of rejection I got from my ex and I felt I had now ruined his life. So we break up 18mnths later and life goes on. Did it for me though? No. For ten years I continued to feel shame over my son and never felt like I accepted him totally for who he was. I always felt like I had to cover him up and speak for him, and in doing so completely rejected who he was as a person in his own right. I had become a christian 2months after my ex and I broke up. So anyway during these 10yrs of raising my son on his own life was unbearable. We fought all the time, but dearly loved each other and were so close. Things got so bad when he was 10 that he had to go live with his grandparents for 3months while I figured things out. He was violent and physically threatening to me and it was horrible. It was almost at breaking point for us. How could two people love each other so much and yet fight so constantly? I couldnt at that stage even think we would get through his teenage years together with his violence. While he was living in another city with my parents I cried out to God. I didnt want to lose my child. I went to a christian camp and it was there that my heart was healed. All it took was for one woman to share her story of how she always felt rejected by her parents and never felt like she belonged with them, and she said one sentence that sent me crashing to the ground in emotional agony. God does not create anyone in darkness no matter what the circumstances. All my sons life I felt like he was a blemish because I had wanted him but my husband hadn't. I felt like he had been created in darkness and I suddenly saw that was not the case. I came back and felt more free in my life than I ever had. It was like this tight band in my head and heart had snapped open and I could freely love and accept my son the way he should of. He is now 16 and we have spent 6 peaceful years still alone. Yes we still do fight, but there isnt that horrible feeling inside of me always trying to push him down. I am now proud of him and want to show him off to the world. Our fights are still bad but nothing compared to what we had when he was 10. I can see how my healing has set him free. He used to have low self-esteem in primary school and had no friends, only 1. Now he is so popular and his real personality has come out because he doesnt feel that underlying tension between us. Was this a growing on limb type miracle? No. But for me it was God healing something so deep and hidden in me, and also my son. In my healing, came his. Strange thing is most people around could see my stress but I couldnt fix it or understand it. It is still taking me years to forgive myself for doing that to my own child. The shame of not fully accepting your own child is horrible and so embarrassing, but here I share it with you. To me that is God's miracle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bdp Posted January 8, 2010 Share Posted January 8, 2010 I wasteth my time on your moronic spoilage. jesus christ, end, were you always such a cunt? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shyone Posted January 8, 2010 Share Posted January 8, 2010 What if the presence of God in someone's life wasnt surrounded with fireworks and amazing growing of limbs, but more a gentle healing in that person's life and heart? Does that count? For me the presence of God in my life is more a love so out of this world that I could never deliver that sort of love on my own. Perhaps you underestimate yourself. It's amazing what someone can do when they have sufficient motivation. I was torn once between leaving a marriage with a woman that was mentally ill or sticking it out. I wound up "surrendering myself" and making a dedication to her and the marriage out of my love. She loved me, I loved her. We healed our marriage, and I think when she saw that I wasn't leaving, she too decided that she would get the help she had been refusing. "Love" works in mysterious ways. Gods? They don't really work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vixentrox Posted January 15, 2010 Share Posted January 15, 2010 You have a pretty low expectation for a "miracle" Kathlene. Was Jesus turning water into wine a slow gentle process over weeks of grape fermentation? Was his walking on water a gradual process? Did he bring Laszurus back from the dead over a period of a few years? Did the healings of the blind occur over a lot of time so as not to shock the person with sight? No, these were all instanteous miracles. Your so called miracle is nothing of the sort. It's a bullshit "miracle" that someone of any faith or no faith could claim. A run of the mill counselor could likely have done the same thing for you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dagnarus Posted January 15, 2010 Share Posted January 15, 2010 From what I can gather in here is that everyone wants one of those far out miracles that supersede all physical abilities of humans. Fair enough I guess. They certainly might still happen, Im not sure. My musing out loud here is to offer up another suggestion. But the miracle you described can't have been from bible god for one simple reason. It showed more love than bible god has ever shown throughout the entirety of the bible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Not4Prophet Posted February 2, 2010 Share Posted February 2, 2010 Christians, pray to your trinity to heal this foot: I'm on board with this. It is not the type of proof I would prefer, but I would consider it compelling evidence. If god is willing to prove his existence and power to Pharaoh by slaughter, then certainly he would be willing to prove his existence by such an act of compassion. Besides, it would be great PR. I know this reply is a bit of a necropost, but I'd figure that after two years that some difference would be noticeable and so, like Lazarus, perhaps this thread should be revisited from time to time just to make sure that none of us missed a memo. Maybe the issue is the whole "faith as much as a mustard seed" thing. I'm sure that a large number of congregations all banded together in a display of humane solidarity can scrape up a mustard seed worth of faith. Whether it required some sort of major group effort like this would be irrelevant to me. If results were evident with any cost of effort, then I would have no problem believing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kathlene Posted February 4, 2010 Share Posted February 4, 2010 From what I can gather in here is that everyone wants one of those far out miracles that supersede all physical abilities of humans. Fair enough I guess. They certainly might still happen, Im not sure. My musing out loud here is to offer up another suggestion. But the miracle you described can't have been from bible god for one simple reason. It showed more love than bible god has ever shown throughout the entirety of the bible. What is your definition of love? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shyone Posted February 5, 2010 Share Posted February 5, 2010 From what I can gather in here is that everyone wants one of those far out miracles that supersede all physical abilities of humans. Fair enough I guess. They certainly might still happen, Im not sure. My musing out loud here is to offer up another suggestion. But the miracle you described can't have been from bible god for one simple reason. It showed more love than bible god has ever shown throughout the entirety of the bible. What is your definition of love? I'm not posting to answer the question exactly, but I've noted that Christianity distorts the hell out of words. Mercy is killing children and their mothers. Mercy is sending people to hell for eternity because they can't believe the unreasonable. Compassion is letting people suffer. Father is a sexless alien being. And love? Love is conditional. It is only for either those "chosen before the beginning of the world" or for those who will believe without proof something that is beyond belief. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vixentrox Posted February 5, 2010 Share Posted February 5, 2010 For god so loved his chosen people that he perpetrated mass murder on their behalf. For god so loved his chosen people that he ordered them to slaughter tribe after tribe of people and to rape their virgin women. For god so loved his creations that he killed them all aside from a few in a boat. This is maybe Kathlene's definition of love & peace since that is what she feels from her god. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dagnarus Posted February 5, 2010 Share Posted February 5, 2010 What is your definition of love? To care for another enough to be willing to sacrifice your own interests for others, expecting nothing in return. (Note, if your going to bring up the crucifixion, that was done with the understanding that those who got the benefit would become his slaves.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
★ Citsonga ★ Posted February 7, 2010 Share Posted February 7, 2010 If your so goddamn smart, define it to everyone's satisfaction and then wager your evil fucking stance with somthing other than your dick in your hand. Such an "authentic christian believer"! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dagnarus Posted February 8, 2010 Share Posted February 8, 2010 If your so goddamn smart, define it to everyone's satisfaction and then wager your evil fucking stance with somthing other than your dick in your hand. Such an "authentic christian believer"! Yeah when I read that the first time I was a bit shocked. I don't know end that well but this struck me as strange behaviour for him (maybe I haven't read enough of his posts). My guess is that he was having a bad day and Checkmates post, set him off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cracked Posted February 8, 2010 Share Posted February 8, 2010 Christians: Put Up Or Shut Up! What part of this do Christians have trouble understanding? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dagan Posted February 8, 2010 Share Posted February 8, 2010 What is your definition of love? Just replace "baby" with "Jesus:" What is love Oh baby, don't hurt me Don't hurt me no more Oh, baby don't hurt me Don't hurt me no more What is love Yeah Oh, I don't know why you're not there I give you my love, but you don't care So what is right and what is wrong Gimme a sign What is love Oh baby, don't hurt me Don't hurt me no more What is love Oh baby, don't hurt me Don't hurt me no more Whoa whoa whoa, oooh oooh Whoa whoa whoa, oooh oooh Oh, I don't know, what can I do What else can I say, it's up to you I know we're one, just me and you I can't go on What is love Oh baby, don't hurt me Don't hurt me no more What is love Oh baby, don't hurt me Don't hurt me no more Whoa whoa whoa, oooh oooh Whoa whoa whoa, oooh oooh What is love, oooh, oooh, oooh What is love, oooh, oooh, oooh What is love Oh baby, don't hurt me Don't hurt me no more Don't hurt me Don't hurt me I want no other, no other lover This is your life, our time When we are together, I need you forever Is it love What is love Oh baby, don't hurt me Don't hurt me no more What is love Oh baby, don't hurt me Don't hurt me no more (oooh, oooh) What is love Oh baby, don't hurt me Don't hurt me no more What is love Oh baby, don't hurt me Don't hurt me no more (oooh, oooh) What is love? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnnyboy76 Posted February 25, 2010 Share Posted February 25, 2010 haha, i was bobbin my head to that. What is your definition of love? Just replace "baby" with "Jesus:" What is love Oh baby, don't hurt me Don't hurt me no more Oh, baby don't hurt me Don't hurt me no more What is love Yeah Oh, I don't know why you're not there I give you my love, but you don't care So what is right and what is wrong Gimme a sign What is love Oh baby, don't hurt me Don't hurt me no more What is love Oh baby, don't hurt me Don't hurt me no more Whoa whoa whoa, oooh oooh Whoa whoa whoa, oooh oooh Oh, I don't know, what can I do What else can I say, it's up to you I know we're one, just me and you I can't go on What is love Oh baby, don't hurt me Don't hurt me no more What is love Oh baby, don't hurt me Don't hurt me no more Whoa whoa whoa, oooh oooh Whoa whoa whoa, oooh oooh What is love, oooh, oooh, oooh What is love, oooh, oooh, oooh What is love Oh baby, don't hurt me Don't hurt me no more Don't hurt me Don't hurt me I want no other, no other lover This is your life, our time When we are together, I need you forever Is it love What is love Oh baby, don't hurt me Don't hurt me no more What is love Oh baby, don't hurt me Don't hurt me no more (oooh, oooh) What is love Oh baby, don't hurt me Don't hurt me no more What is love Oh baby, don't hurt me Don't hurt me no more (oooh, oooh) What is love? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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