Guest nobodyyouknow Posted January 9, 2013 Share Posted January 9, 2013 I don't feel I need to give an answer to every question that I'm asked so why should any deity feel the need too? No... I'm not Possible (suspicious) reasons why she's here 1. Shes... GOD! You can cross that off the list Go back to the recipe thread .......you do better there hon. Or....read this book and come back here in a few weeks...... Stop playing dumb - you're in the Lions Den now......... Margee, If you feel the need to take out stuff on me that has been done to you by other Christians then go ahead. If Christians are 'one body' then surely there is some responsibility they all need to take when wrong has been done in the name of 'Christianity' to someone. I'm sorry for anything they have done to you to cause you pain and hurt. And also sorry that at times I can't see beyond the insults you dish out to me, to see your hurt from the things Christians have done to you. Those words are sincere but if you want to believe otherwise, then its your choice Vanessa (I'll "shut up" in here now) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderator TrueFreedom Posted January 9, 2013 Moderator Share Posted January 9, 2013 Hi Vanessa! I'm still waiting for you to say something. What would you like to talk about? xx oo, TF Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RipVanWinkle Posted January 9, 2013 Share Posted January 9, 2013 See KBB" post above in which one of the christians sitting close to where KBB is sitting in Starbucks said:"We keep praying about it and praying about it, but never felt like God gave us an answer, so we kind of thought that was His answer." THAT'S IT! The Xtians have proved their case: God must exist because He has responded to every prayer that was ever made by not answering any of them. Every prayer has been answered by god by virtue of His not answering them. The puzzle of eons has been solved! Forgive me for the satire, but ridiculous rationalizations by Xtians gets tiring. nobodyyouknownow: All any christian needs for god to do is to give us one indisputable proof that He exists and that the salvation plan is real. If that were to happen, I being a sane person, would have no choice other than to accept his salvation plan, even though it would still puzzle me as to why He would even put people who knowingly rejected him in hell for eternal torture. Now, don't you think an all knowing god would be capable of providing indisputable proof? Unless, of course god doesn't want billions of people to know how to save themselves from going to hell. The indisputable truth is that an all powerful and all knowing god would be horrible beyond words not to clearly inform all his creatures of the path to salvation which no one would have trouble believing and understanding. bill 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ouroboros Posted January 9, 2013 Share Posted January 9, 2013 No... I'm notOh, damn it. Then I'm still looking. Next time you talk to him, let him know that he could speak up a little, so I could hear him. Possible (suspicious) reasons why she's hereOther possible reasons you're here: you like pain. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RipVanWinkle Posted January 9, 2013 Share Posted January 9, 2013 You know, I think Xtians rejecting or otherwise being cruel to exchristians does constitute empirical evidence against the case for the biblical god. Why would he allow that behavior to continue, particularly since it is a stumbling block to faith for many people. So, Xtians behavior Is relevant. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
midniterider Posted January 9, 2013 Share Posted January 9, 2013 Maybe you should take more time to read threads before responding to them. Several of the early posts in this thread were about the sort of evidence Checkmate and others here would accept. As far as your intentions go - the more you post the more suspicious you seem. I actually think we already have one on your suspect intentions, so no need for me to open a new one. I already apologised for hastily asking something that was already there so not sure why you couldn't just accept that and move on - without having to drive your point home. How many bad intentions could there possibly be? The only I can think of is to 'witness' and that is already allowed in one part of this forum. Or just enjoying the agitation your presence causes. lol. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Akheia Posted January 9, 2013 Share Posted January 9, 2013 @Nobody: Quick! Distract them some more! They might remember that you came to a thread expressly opened for Christians to put up evidence for their claims and have yammered for half a dozen posts without actually providing any evidence for your claims! If you keep snowing them, they might forget to keep asking you for, you know, proof of what you're saying is true. Your god was downright chatty in the Old Testament, and Jesus himself appeared to Thomas to prove he was really resurrected, according to your (utterly debunked) source book. So why can't he be bothered to lift his little pinkie to provide to the world a single shred of real evidence that his extortion threats of eternal torture are for real? 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest nobodyyouknow Posted January 9, 2013 Share Posted January 9, 2013 Maybe you should take more time to read threads before responding to them. Several of the early posts in this thread were about the sort of evidence Checkmate and others here would accept. As far as your intentions go - the more you post the more suspicious you seem. I actually think we already have one on your suspect intentions, so no need for me to open a new one. I already apologised for hastily asking something that was already there so not sure why you couldn't just accept that and move on - without having to drive your point home. How many bad intentions could there possibly be? The only I can think of is to 'witness' and that is already allowed in one part of this forum. Or just enjoying the agitation your presence causes. lol. keep forgetting this is the thread I said i'd shut up in... as you were... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vigile Posted January 9, 2013 Share Posted January 9, 2013 I'm sitting in Starbucks right now listening to a conversation of two people next to me, who are apparently in ministry. One says, "we kept praying about it and praying about it, but never felt like God gave us an answer, so we kind of thought that was his answer." Surely, people would prefer their deity to not be so derelict in his or her duties. I don't feel I need to give an answer to every question that I'm asked so why should any deity feel the need too? I pray to my pet rock. His answers are yes, no and wait a while. I get about the same results as xians who pray to Jehovah. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LoneTarus Posted January 9, 2013 Share Posted January 9, 2013 nobodyyouknownow: All any christian needs for god to do is to give us one indisputable proof that He exists and that the salvation plan is real. If that were to happen, I being a sane person, would have no choice other than to accept his salvation plan, even though it would still puzzle me as to why He would even put people who knowingly rejected him in hell for eternal torture. Now, don't you think an all knowing god would be capable of providing indisputable proof? Unless, of course god doesn't want billions of people to know how to save themselves from going to hell. The indisputable truth is that an all powerful and all knowing god would be horrible beyond words not to clearly inform all his creatures of the path to salvation which no one would have trouble believing and understanding. bill Even if there was proof I would still reject biblegod because you know what? fuck him you can't threaten me into loving you and being your obedient little slave. (not to mention forcing me to be someone I'm not) I don't see anything good at all about the bible's depiction of god in either the old or new testament or it's plan of salvation from a problem that wouldn't exist if "god" hadn't created it in the first place. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
◊ crazyguy123 ◊ Posted January 9, 2013 Share Posted January 9, 2013 nobodyyouknownow: All any christian needs for god to do is to give us one indisputable proof that He exists and that the salvation plan is real. If that were to happen, I being a sane person, would have no choice other than to accept his salvation plan, even though it would still puzzle me as to why He would even put people who knowingly rejected him in hell for eternal torture. Now, don't you think an all knowing god would be capable of providing indisputable proof? Unless, of course god doesn't want billions of people to know how to save themselves from going to hell. The indisputable truth is that an all powerful and all knowing god would be horrible beyond words not to clearly inform all his creatures of the path to salvation which no one would have trouble believing and understanding. bill Even if there was proof I would still reject biblegod because you know what? fuck him you can't threaten me into loving you and being your obedient little slave. (not to mention forcing me to be someone I'm not) I don't see anything good at all about the bible's depiction of god in either the old or new testament or it's plan of salvation from a problem that wouldn't exist if "god" hadn't created it in the first place. I agree. Even if there was enough evidence to convince everyone on the Earth to believe that the Christian god was real and that the Bible's claims were true, it would require people with good character to reject serving this god. If people would choose to be tortured forever over the option of massaging Yahweh's ego, that would show integrity and courage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Akheia Posted January 9, 2013 Share Posted January 9, 2013 I'm going to expose the non-Christian agenda to all the Christians here. The reason we're so buggy on the subject of evidence is NOT so we will insta-convert. If the Bible's true, then Yahweh is one evil motherfucker. We want evidence so we'll know if we need to be getting going on the rebellion against the greatest enemy of all humanity. The more you drag your feet, Christians, the longer it takes to mount an effective defense. But bear in mind what happens to those who collaborate with the enemy when the enemy gets defeated. (Yes, I'm being completely tongue in cheek. It's hilarious how Christians think that evidence equals conversion. Once the evidence is presented and accepted, at that point we need to figure out why anybody'd worship a being of that magnitude of evil. But evidence really is the first step in evaluating the validity of Christianity.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RipVanWinkle Posted January 9, 2013 Share Posted January 9, 2013 Well, I've got to admit that if the cruel god of the bible were to prove himself to me and everyone else, i don't think I'd have the courage to give him the finger. But the fault would be on me. bill 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Akheia Posted January 9, 2013 Share Posted January 9, 2013 Torture's definitely really scary. I hope I would be brave enough to hold to my own words if I were presented with such a monstrous "choice" by such a "loving" and "merciful" being. At the moment it's purely academic. I'm deeply thankful that we live in a natural world. If there are gods, they're definitely not doing much to announce themselves. The world works exactly as we'd expect if there were no tyrant pulling its strings. I can't imagine the dystopic nightmare that we'd live in if there really were an omnipotent, bloodthirsty, jealous, vindictive being pulling all the strings. Christians have this fluffy idea of Boyfriend Jesus in their heads, this "personal relationship," this comforting shepherd, and forget the carnage that their religion and those related to it have--and are--wreaking upon the innocent. Shepherds, um, EAT sheep and use them for their wool, milk, leather, and meat. But nobody shows the slaughtering of sheep in their Hippie Jesus portraits, do they? Just him wandering around with cute little lambs over his shoulders or on his lap. Bet shepherds do a lot more slaughtering than they do cuddling. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
◊ crazyguy123 ◊ Posted January 9, 2013 Share Posted January 9, 2013 Well, I've got to admit that if the cruel god of the bible were to prove himself to me and everyone else, i don't think I'd have the courage to give him the finger. But the fault would be on me. bill There would be nothing wrong with becoming obedient to the god of the Bible if you do it for your own well-being. I do not know how many would have the courage to rebel against such a god, if it did exist. I probably wouldn't have the courage to do so. Even if I did give Yahweh the finger, in just a short amount of time, I would probably have repented and begged for forgiveness out of fear of eternal torture. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RipVanWinkle Posted January 10, 2013 Share Posted January 10, 2013 Xtians only look at one side of the coin. I suppose the barbaric passages just flow through them like water. That is, if they read the bible at all. I believe a lot of them read only highly selective parts given to them by their pastor or in books written by Xtian apologists. The other factor, i believe, is that most people do not think they know enough to interpret the bible by themselves. After all, the KJV isn't easy to read and the other interpretations are done with "poetic license", so to speak. Even if the Xtian reads the barbaric passages, she does not have the confidence to believe she can understand it as "god" intended. So she goes to her pastor. (good luck). bill Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest r3alchild Posted February 24, 2013 Share Posted February 24, 2013 About that healing you are asking for god to prove. I don't know if anyone posted this answer but god does not move on anything when put to the test. You have to have no motives when asking god for something. And this is the excuse christians should say when faced with this challange. I was taught by the best bullshit artists in christianity. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Akheia Posted February 24, 2013 Share Posted February 24, 2013 Christians like to move the goalposts. When called out for not producing miracles, they get further and further away from their own Bible's descriptions of the conditions under which miracles will occur. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
raoul Posted February 24, 2013 Share Posted February 24, 2013 Christians like to move the goalposts. When called out for not producing miracles, they get further and further away from their own Bible's descriptions of the conditions under which miracles will occur. Right on about them moving the goalposts. Example - regarding miracles - since none occur today except for those out on the fringe, I've heard more of them saying something to the effect that 'the only miracle we need is the one of salvation' or 'what was done 2,000 years ago for all of us'. They gotta keep going back to the blood soaked cross to lay the guilt trip and keep everyone in line. So no new miracles needed you see. They have their bible (the new god) and the miracle of salvation so screw everything else - no miracles needed now thank you. The goal posts are now located somewhere in bubble land. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest r3alchild Posted February 25, 2013 Share Posted February 25, 2013 Your right about the fringe miracles. When jesus said his deciples could do what he did and do greatet one the burden is in christians to do what they believe. But when you ask any of them why they cant walk on water or why cant they multiply bread crap like that, they will say its a faith thing. Then when you say the bible say even if you have a musted sead of faith you can do all that crap, they will say you have to be called. Excuse after excuse one of the many reasons i left because i couldny keep up my excused in christs name. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vigile Posted February 25, 2013 Share Posted February 25, 2013 About that healing you are asking for god to prove. I don't know if anyone posted this answer but god does not move on anything when put to the test. You have to have no motives when asking god for something. And this is the excuse christians should say when faced with this challange. I was taught by the best bullshit artists in christianity. Then Gideon said to God, "Do not be angry with me. Let me make just one more request. Allow me one more test with the fleece. This time make the fleece dry and the ground covered with dew." That night God did so. Only the fleece was dry; all the ground was covered with dew. -Judges 6:39-40 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest r3alchild Posted February 25, 2013 Share Posted February 25, 2013 Yeah I know but christians dont like to admit anything god could be tested for because if he could then christians would have to prove themself to non believers. And also to add salt to the wound we all had or still have. You reading gods word wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
antix Posted March 28, 2013 Share Posted March 28, 2013 I have one single question and this is not tempting God or whatever a Xian would say. If God exists in the Biblical form, why will he not just pop up in front of me (I will take an angel if he is busy) and say Here I am and then just leave. That is all I want. If he can create the cosmos, be everywhere at once and be all powerful, how hard would it be for him to perform that one single act. (Any Christians reading this, I want it to happen when I am awake, not in a dream). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest r3alchild Posted May 22, 2013 Share Posted May 22, 2013 Even if you asked god to do something simple, it wont happen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YakRider Posted May 22, 2013 Share Posted May 22, 2013 Great post, Checkmate. Well said. You speak my mind, as well. I'm glad you wrote that out. Isn't it interesting that christian sympathizers warn that our anger --that we feel and express at the outrages that they and their christian friends commit and condone-- somehow diminishes the validity of our argument or our premise? Back "in the day" when I was visiting a cloistered group in a monastery an elderly monk and I witnessed two other monks having a barely contained verbal argument in a "silent" part of the building. When they realized that we had witnessed their outburst, they both quickly pulled up their hoods, folded their hands and walked in two directions as pious-looking as they could muster --like nothing had happened. The elderly monk looked at me with a wry grin and said, "Never underestimate the power of denial." And that's really it isn't it? Denial. christianity is about a powerful form of denial that allows them to justify anything that they can't explain. It allows them to condone heinous behavior --acts of barbarism, inhumane treatment, abuses and even killing by their god and by their brethren thoughout history. Their doctrines, teachings and dogma and incipient social ills create a powerful force of denial that dimishes them and their humanity, though they are so inured they can't even see it themselves. I feel compassion for them if they have the denial and keep it to themselves, but I get angry at the losses that they caused me in my life. I also get angry when they try to foist it off on others, creating more damage, believing that they are doing "right" all along. I'm with you. Although for me, I would rather that they shut up because they can never put up. Thanks for your post. It turned out to be very cathartic for me, as well. ~YakRider 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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