Home Schooling

[SWIM]

Home Schooling.

 

Pros:

 

One reason why it might be good for a child to be home schooled, is to teach values and morals to the child, the values YOU want them to learn, not the *world*.

 

Children often learn things at a young age that they should not know; such as bad language or violence. Such bad behavior is present through-out our society. After all, it does not matter what school a child goes to, since children from all areas of life are present in most classrooms.

 

It is in the classroom where children hear things that YOU think they should not be hearing. OTOH, if the child is being home schooled, then violence and vulgarities are things the parent does not have to worry about. A home environment also provides a child with less distraction and less peer pressure.

 

And peer pressure is one of the hardest of things to over-come.

 

Cons:

 

Now, the above sounds pretty good right? *BUT*, the curriculum has become increasingly harder over the years. Children are being taught certain concepts, and lessons now, much earlier than in the past. The parent must keep in mind that they may not have had the same degree of education in each and every subject. It may become *overwhelming* for the parent to teach several different subjects, rather than just one, especially when home schooling high school aged children. When teaching more than one child, (this is for you, you know who you are )the parent must keep in mind the challenges of also teaching different grade levels.

 

 

OK notice something about the above? Not one mention pro or con about religion. This could apply to an atheist or agnostic family as well.

 

Now, lets throw in some old-time religion!

 

Firstly, if you are *teaching* creationism, and ID as well as *teaching* xtianity as fact, not belief or theory, you are *wrongly* teaching your kids. At least in public school, it is seperate from religion. Public schooled xtians still go to church, sometimes several times a week, even bible study. BUT there is a separation from *learning facts* and *learning faith*. When you blend school and religion, you blur the line between truth and fantasy.

 

Also, overcoming peer pressure is important, it strengthens our kids. You don't just "set it and forget it" sending kids to public school is not "the easy way", you have to keep talking to them, get involved with their lives, look at their text books, help them with homework, and listen attentively to their social problems. You might find that this task is even harder then home schooling.

 

This should be enough to kick off the discussion. This is the LIONS DEN so be warned it might be a bumpy ride. As for "beating up" home schoolers, maybe we won't do it, all depends on YOU xtians, how much garbage you want us to swallow, and how YOU conduct yourself. This was not put here to beat you up (well, it has crossed my mind) but it was put here *specifically* to have an uncensored open discussion. It is highly possible that it could remain civil.

[Ouroboros]

Another pros is that some kids learn better in a smaller "class room" environment. Today classes are very large and teachers use one-size-fits-all method to teach the kids. Some kids learn in different ways, and the public school is not equipped to handle the exceptions, only the norm. In a home schooling environment some kids can get more attention and actually learn more. Home schooling wouldn't be necessary if the public school system accounted for the different needs instead of generalizations. In our area the head of the school district built a new head quarter office for millions of dollars, in a very expensive area, and extremely fancy building, while the teachers were denied a raise. The public school is sometimes unfortunately run by people who do not have the competence nor the will to give kids a good education, but they're only interested in running a political power game. So unfortunately home schooling has a place today and will grow, until the politicians wake up and do some kind of reform.

[Grandpa Harley]

It depends really... Westboro's home schooling curriculum would be child abuse.

 

From where I sit, the Christian home schooling movement is to maintain the cult's control over the kids. As to content, how is this policed? Is it policed at all? Are there spot checks?

[Grandpa Harley]

Yes, Burny, but you are nominally sane... sounds like a girl to be proud of BTW... congrats

[SWIM]

It depends really... Westboro's home schooling curriculum would be child abuse.

 

From where I sit, the Christian home schooling movement is to maintain the cult's control over the kids. As to content, how is this policed? Is it policed at all? Are there spot checks?

 

Exactly!

 

Nobody looks over their shoulder to see *what* is being teached.

 

OTOH Home schooling *might* be a better option then public school if you live in a very bad area, like a bad area of detroit or something. IF the home schooling is not bible oriented AND the parents are qualified to teach, then maybe so, hell I might have went that route if I had been living in a very bad area. It's the xtian *spin* xtian home schoolers put on things that make the xtian home schooler a *very* bad thing. Also, teaching ID and creationism and calling *evolution* a falsehood is really, really bad.

 

And like you say gramps, how do you police these people?

[Deva]

Also, overcoming peer pressure is important, it strengthens our kids. You don't just "set it and forget it" sending kids to public school is not "the easy way", you have to keep talking to them, get involved with their lives, look at their text books, help them with homework, and listen attentively to their social problems. You might find that this task is even harder then home schooling.

 

I have a comment on the first sentence-- I realize you qualify it by the rest of the paragraph but the fact is that "peer pressure" can also completely destroy a kid's self esteem. No "strengthening" takes place. You just have to look at the circumstances on a case by case basis.

 

I speak from experience. The years age 13-15 were an endless hell for me at 3 different public schools. Yes, with busing in the early 1970s-- three different junior high schools. Even today, this many years later, I would give any amount of money and everything I own to have been spared that experience. It was no- holes- barred the worst time of my life-- and that even includes enduring a bad marriage for 6 years and then divorce.

 

I don't know that "parental involvement" in my case would have had any effect. Even though my parents had more or less a "set it and forget it" attitude, what can parents really do-- complain to the principal? When there is an atmosphere of total violence and the teachers turn their heads the other way when people are being mercilessly bullied everyday? It wasn't in the classroom only, it was also on the bus. Fights and threats of fights on a daily basis. The only rational answer I can think of would have been pull me out of the wretched school system.

 

I am just glad, often, that I never had any children. If you don't have enough money to put them in a good private school I don't know what you can really do to get them a good education. Probably the public school system is "luck of the draw" as to where you live. It seems to me to be a major problem. I can tell you this-- if I knew for a fact one of my kids was being bullied the way I was, there would be no solution I wouldn't consider, short of a Columbine style assault.

 

Not trying for a pity party here-- but what fundamentalist xianity started, the school system finished. I emerged from it with no idea that I could do anything worthwhile in life.

[SWIM]

Yes, Burny, but you are nominally sane... sounds like a girl to be proud of BTW... congrats

 

 

I guess that's the meat of the issue. The person playing the role of teacher is the primary concern. Burny sounds qualified, but my fundy in-law most assuredly is NOT qualified, she is *also* just a high school grad, no college, and no job experience, always has been a housewife, never had a job.

[SWIM]

If you don't have enough money to put them in a good private school I don't know what you can really do to get them a good education.

 

I sure wouldn't want our gov to require a license to have children, where you have to met certain financial and education criteria, this would rob us of freedom. BUT it would advance our species tremendously if such a thing could be done (and I don't know how) without killing freedom.

[Ouroboros]

It depends really... Westboro's home schooling curriculum would be child abuse.

 

From where I sit, the Christian home schooling movement is to maintain the cult's control over the kids. As to content, how is this policed? Is it policed at all? Are there spot checks?

We have to remember that it's not only Christians that do home schooling.

 

But I agree about the policing. I don't do home schooling myself, so I can't really answer for how they control what the kids learn. There is a curriculum they have to follow, and there are tests they have to pass, so in general they learn the same things as the kids in public school or they wouldn't be able to pass the exams. I do think creationist Christians do take a different approach to subjects like evolution and sex-ed.

 

Here's an article about how Christian home schooling: link

[SWIM]

But I agree about the policing. I don't do home schooling myself, so I can't really answer for how they control what the kids learn. There is a curriculum they have to follow, and there are tests they have to pass, so in general they learn the same things as the kids in public school or they wouldn't be able to pass the exams. I do think creationist Christians do take a different approach to subjects like evolution and sex-ed.

 

What is to stop them from cheating on these exams? Since they are at home and all... Or do they have to go somewhere else to take the test?

[Grandpa Harley]

If you don't have enough money to put them in a good private school I don't know what you can really do to get them a good education.

 

I sure wouldn't want our gov to require a license to have children, where you have to met certain financial and education criteria, this would rob us of freedom. BUT it would advance our species tremendously if such a thing could be done (and I don't know how) without killing freedom.

 

Bollock to limiting freedom... If I thought the govt qualified to judge, then I'd welcome it... however, since I trust none of them to be able to a=judge the fitness of people to raise pigs, let alone kids, I'd prefer them to keep their nose out of my genetics...

[Ouroboros]

What is to stop them from cheating on these exams? Since they are at home and all... Or do they have to go somewhere else to take the test?

Good question. No clue.

[SWIM]

If you don't have enough money to put them in a good private school I don't know what you can really do to get them a good education.

 

I sure wouldn't want our gov to require a license to have children, where you have to met certain financial and education criteria, this would rob us of freedom. BUT it would advance our species tremendously if such a thing could be done (and I don't know how) without killing freedom.

 

Bollock to limiting freedom... If I thought the govt qualified to judge, then I'd welcome it... however, since I trust none of them to be able to a=judge the fitness of people to raise pigs, let alone kids, I'd prefer them to keep their nose out of my genetics...

 

Yeah, I agree with that gramps, in a perfect world (or at least a much better one) that concept might not be a bad idea, but in today's world I personally would vote against such a thing.

[Naughtyhamster]

Home schooling is good if you have a child who just does not fit in the main stream. Some children do much better academically when they are placed in a more individual environment and not everyone can afford specialized private schools for that child.

 

 

 

Same thing happened to me. I was just a moral, intelligent, artistic, sensitive type who just couldn't handle the bullying and low expectations of junior high and high school. Strangely when I went to college ( I didn't start college until I was twenty four as unlike public school kids I wasn't pressured to enter college right out of high school) a tutor thought I had gone to a private school as my English skills were so advanced. When I told him that I had been homeschooled he almost fell out of his chair as he had mostly encountered home schooled college students who had no idea how to write an essay and acted very immature and sheltered.

 

Last year when I took a biology class at the community college I was reading my textbook and thinking "Wait a minute! I remember this stuff from high school!" The global warming stuff I learned in that class was new learning material for me, but all the stuff about plants and animals was quite familiar. One classmate of mine even asked for my phone number as she was having quite a hard time with the concepts we were learning and needed a study buddy.

[Grandpa Harley]

And if they politicise who can breed, rather than be lead by science (which is what they'd do) who would actually be pure enough to pass the genetic tests? Certainly no one behind the legislation...

[Thackerie]

I'll admit that there are some circumstances in which homeschooling might be the best option, but I am really concerned about the lack of government oversight in some areas -- and not only because of fundies using it to raise an army of indoctrinated, ill-educated children. What worries me is the really extreme cases where abusive parents use it to hide their crimes against their offspring from public view.

 

A horrific case just came to light in my area (Washington, D.C.), where it was discovered that a woman had killed all four of her daughters and kept their decaying bodies in her house for months, until a couple of weeks ago when she was being evicted. (You probably heard about this.) She had withdrawn the three younger ones from a charter school, telling officials that she was going to homeschool them. Because D.C. does not have a law requiring charter schools to keep track of kids that are supposedly withdrawn for homeschooling, no one noticed when they "disappeared" as long ago as last April or May.

 

I know the regulations for homeschooling vary by state, but I think it should be a universal requirements that the kids be made available to be interviewed and tested on a regular basis away from the parents - not only to check up on academic progress but also to make sure they are still alive and in reasonable health.

[♦ nivek ♦]

Beastie, Freshman in our skULlE SysTem is bored stiff with current cirric.

 

Comes from being taught at home and being stuffed with knowledge, both "head-wise" and "practical" from hanging around the Old Man and BOOKS...

 

He loves to play his horns in band, and enjoys the bullshit and banter with his classmates.

 

Then... Gang problems with the little wannabe ganstaz, bullshit from fundie classmates, and then the low expectations of Oregon's "Certificate of Initial Mastery" instead of a Diploma.

 

Give a kid a decent set of encylopedia, let them absorb and read. Make sure they have access to Libraries and your books at home. Ensure they can READ, and let them soak in knowledge and information.

 

Beastie has been given opportunities to go with me to jobs where my Security badge reads "Top Secret" (kinda neat to have a pre-teen sign off a non-disclosure agreement), and then watch him absolutely fuck up many pounds of weld rod, gasses and MIG gun wire as he works on "gettin' it down".

 

He's got a filling rollaway of his own quality tools. Owns guns, protective breed dogs, is no stranger to the contents of booze cabinet, and can cuss like a sailor on demand.

 

All of this and in publIK skuLLe maintains an A average.

 

I won't allow the proctors of PC be my son's education. Fuck them and the tax monies removed from our pockets.

My kid belongs to me, and he'll learn what he and I want him to do so.

 

k, proud Dad, FL

[RIPw4]

the only problem I have with homeschooling is that it deprives the child of good socialization skills.

In a regular school, the child is forced to handle situations with other peers and it helps them develop socialization skills, something that homeschooling does not offer.

[hereticzero]

Homeschool allows parents to teach whatever subject they believe is suitable for their children. I have homeschooled my son in the past. The homeschooled students pass or fail according to the testing of the homeschool. I kept records so that when my kid went back to public school everyone knew what he had been taught. He did well coming back to public school. The public school cannot test the homeschooled because the public school does not teach what is taught at home and it would inappropriate for the public school to demand testing over something the student has not been taught at home. Public school courses are not always the best course work available for every child. A parent does not need to be a teacher if they teach their own children and most homeschool subjects are easily self-taught by the child--some are even taught over the internet by private schools, others are taught through workbooks. I am against the govt. demanding that they test home schooled kids to see if they are up to par with public school subjects. That defeats the purpose of homeschooling, allowing parents to teach what they believe is suitable for their children. Every school year a parent, in most states with few exceptions, must report to the school district that their child will be homeschooled and present a course of subjects to the district for their approval. the school district then sends a letter back to the parents approving or disapproving the course of teaching. There are at least five basics that must be taught, such as math, science, geography, english, etc. I stongly oppose any standardization of tests for homeschoolers. The govt. has no right to interfere in a homeschool. States have been defeated time after time in court when they try to interfere. you can check out some of these laws at www.hslda.org, which is a legal representation for homeschoolers. They will supply attorneys if one is needed to keep the state out of one's own home while homeschooling.

 

If my kid cannot perform well in public school and they allow me to teach him at home then it is none of their business what I teach or how I teach it, especially after they approve the course plan.

[hereticzero]

Socialization is a myth drummed up to put the fear of unsocialized kids into their parents--like they'll be retarded if they don't socialize at school. Bull! Socializing at school involves teenage pregnancies, drugs, lately school shootings, everything which is unhealthy for children can be found in public schools more so than at home. Socialization is the weakest argument in favor of public schooling.

[hereticzero]

We are not robots and clones. We do not all have to know the same thing to get by in life or with each other.

[♦ nivek ♦]

rip,

 

"Socialization" or lack of is parents problem.

 

Beastie gets to rub shoulders with folks from scientific, engineering, construction, compressed air and helmet diving, building, exploding, thinking, philosophical, medical, live saving, military, lines of professions by hanging around with me on the various jobs I do or did.

 

At our public schools the influence of various gangs and bullshit artistes have ensured that my legal legs are well worn as I sue the shit out of the District for little things like *Equal Protection* and "Section 1983" suits.

 

Beastie has so far this year disarmed a knife wielding punk, taken a baseball bat from a kid who was intending harm to he and buddies, put a dozen or more punks on ground that were threatening or had already hit him.

 

The Invisible Hand works, and out socialist skULlez sure are good examples of how not to use the Prussian method of *education*. Adam Smith is coming, and first thing I hope the rate paying public feels is the squeeze of big box schools...

 

Beastie will do more than survive and be one of the sheep. Be damnned if I'll let the skULLez be the arbiter of what he thinks..

 

kFL

[♦ nivek ♦]

We are not robots and clones. We do not all have to know the same thing to get by in life or with each other.

 

But we ARE HZ..

 

We MUST be standardized and replaceable by the *numbers* so business and industry can simply slide one unit out, one unit in as they wear out.

 

How DARE you think you and your child(ren) be DIFFERENT and think otherwise?????!PneEEONe!!!!!!!!???!!!!?

 

There ya go, ya bastard, fucking up the works on the graze ground by helping make sure your shee, err, child is DIFFERENT.. Whatchoo WANT, someone DARE think for themselves and fuckup the WORKS?????

 

Do a websearch for Prussian Method Education and see where we are and what foundations current socialist education is based on.

 

We NEED raise a nation of Leaders, our kids may be the few that aren't stuck in a goobermint assigned rut for life.

 

kL

[pitchu]

When hubby and I adopted a brother and sister (ages 6 and 7) from the foster system, we first put them in public school. There they were socialized, all right, but we soon realized what they were being socialized to. There was bus and schoolground bullying, pecking order, xian values which we certainly didn't share in our home, superficial prejudices regarding dress, athletic ability, etc. -- and the list went on and on.

 

We decided that our working on attachment issues within the family was being systematically undermined by both the kids and adults at the school. We homeschooled our kids for two years. Neither of us has a teaching degree, nor did we have any interest whatsoever in following the curriculum set forth by the school. We taught more like unschoolers than homeschoolers, following the interests of our kids, which took us into varieties of territories, within which basic skills simply evolved.

 

Much like Kev's Beastie, our kids went on "field trips" with us, took flute and saxophone lessons, self-defense lessons, dance lessons. They learned how to start seeds indoors, plant, maintain and harvest a garden and cook the food they grew. We read Shakespeare, then discussed it over dinner. They learned how to build and repair bikes by working with a local program that re-cycled used bikes to give to disadvantaged kids. We had an odd and "unacceptable" curriculum, but, since the nature of homeschooling oversight varies from district to district, we had no official interference. Their childhood socialization came from extended family, neighbors, the kids in their various lessons.

 

We built an education while concentrating on building a family and, when they returned to public school, they skipped grades.

[Ouroboros]

We built an education while concentrating on building a family and, when they returned to public school, they skipped grades.

Yet another proof that public school is not an educational institution, but a very expensive baby-sitter.

 

It all comes down to that public school sucks, and home schooling is dangerous. Oh dear, what a world we live in.