chefranden Posted March 21, 2008 Share Posted March 21, 2008 So. Thats my only question of evolution. Why are so much more advanced than the rest. It's actually more sensible to me to think theirs a deity setting that tone of difference in the advancements, for each setting of creature, including humans. Actually, God loves Jellyfish best. Jellyfish don't give God any shit. Jellyfish don't lust in their hearts. I'm not even sure if they have hearts to lust in. I think the evolutionary jury is still out on our advancement. We haven't been here more than a geological tick so far. You might want to consider that humans are the only hominid left. The rest are extinct. I don't think we have much cause to be cocky about our "advancement". Most of our treasure is invested in human killing equipment. I don't think that is much of a sign of advancement. We might be the first species to make itself extinct. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neon Genesis Posted March 21, 2008 Share Posted March 21, 2008 Thats my point. We as humans are more advanced in our human capacities. Why? From evolution that is.What the fuck kind of statement is that? You claim that humans are greater than other species, but then when I say that animals have greater abilities than humans, you say that doesn't count because they're not humans. Stay consistent with your arguments. You can't compare humans to animals to prove your point that we're superior but then turn around and say I can't do the same to disprove your claim. That's hypocritical and dishonest. Just thought of people flying around everywhere. Thats about as imaginable as people living underwater.And your belief that there's invisible sky daddies who grant wishes and will give us immortality if we follow him around with a leash tied around our necks isn't? Obviously my point was meant to be hypothetical and tongue-in-cheek in response to your absurd claims, and I love how you think your fairytale that you actually believe in isn't absurd when you don't have any proof whatsoever. Maybe more advanced in that way, or to their setting in life, but not superior.And now you're trying to change what your entire question was originally about. Please make up your mind on what you're going to debate and stop flip-flopping. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest thespankguy Posted March 21, 2008 Share Posted March 21, 2008 So. Thats my only question of evolution. Why are so much more advanced than the rest. It's actually more sensible to me to think theirs a deity setting that tone of difference in the advancements, for each setting of creature, including humans. I think the fundamental flaw with your argument is the "why?" factor. There isn't a reason. This is similar to the "so all of this happened by accident?" sarcastic comment from religious folks. It's not an accident, just one of many possibilities that happened to have occurred. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grandpa Harley Posted March 21, 2008 Share Posted March 21, 2008 The secondary flaw is the a priori assumption that we are 'more' advanced than any other organism on the planet... the comparison is specious... in an evolutionary system there is no 'more advanced' organism than any other... they're all the best current version... the are the 'most advanced' in their niche... just because something hasn't changed in 125 million years just means it's been best of breed for all that time... So, we have two bad assumptions that sound superficially logical, but really are just gibberish... 1) the 'more advanced' canard 2) the question of 'why "more advanced"?' specious question based on a faulty premise... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Legion Posted March 21, 2008 Share Posted March 21, 2008 We're not the most advanced animal on the planet... We're the most advanced homo species on the planet at this time... but try making us the most advanced creature in the niche the squid lives in and I'll show you a bobbing corpse... same with any of the less 'alien' animals... we'd last half a day top living like an elk or a lion, and move out of mammals and you have a shorter life span... three minutes for the squid... I think Gramps hit the nail on the head with this one. We occupy a niche as all organisms do. Take us outside it, and we are dead. Now I am not poo-pooing humans. We are pretty good in our niche. But I think we must guard against arrogance lest we fail to learn what the other organisms have to teach us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grandpa Harley Posted March 21, 2008 Share Posted March 21, 2008 As I said... try duking it out in the niche the squid occupies, using the tools a squid uses, then tell me who's got the advantage... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Abiyoyo Posted March 21, 2008 Share Posted March 21, 2008 Thats my point. We as humans are more advanced in our human capacities. Why? From evolution that is. What the fuck kind of statement is that? You claim that humans are greater than other species, but then when I say that animals have greater abilities than humans, you say that doesn't count because they're not humans. Stay consistent with your arguments. You can't compare humans to animals to prove your point that we're superior but then turn around and say I can't do the same to disprove your claim. That's hypocritical and dishonest. YoYo #21. An animal that can hear miles away, or smell miles away. Police dogs, hearing aid dogs. They were trained, yes. But they were only trained to their capabilities physically. ...This statement was my implying that though humans are more advanced, as far as technology, thought, design, etc; animals are also just as advanced in their own 'niche'. Maybe more advanced in that way, or to their setting in life, but not superior. And now you're trying to change what your entire question was originally about. Please make up your mind on what you're going to debate and stop flip-flopping. Again, that particular niche would be more advanced, as your bats would be more advanced. Refer to the above. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Legion Posted March 21, 2008 Share Posted March 21, 2008 I don't understand what "advanced niche" means. A niche is a niche is a niche, right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Abiyoyo Posted March 21, 2008 Share Posted March 21, 2008 We're not the most advanced animal on the planet... We're the most advanced homo species on the planet at this time... but try making us the most advanced creature in the niche the squid lives in and I'll show you a bobbing corpse... same with any of the less 'alien' animals... we'd last half a day top living like an elk or a lion, and move out of mammals and you have a shorter life span... three minutes for the squid... Sorry GH, Maybe I should have better worded my response as to some are getting confused in what I said. YoYo# 21 An animal that can hear miles away, or smell miles away. Police dogs, hearing aid dogs. They were trained, yes. But they were only trained to their capabilities physically. As I said to Neon Genesis, More advanced in design, thought, communication, etc. Animals are also just as advanced in their own ways. My question was Why is that? All the physical settings were the same. Ex: Apes are supposedly the closest to us DNA wise. Why are they so much more primitive? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Abiyoyo Posted March 21, 2008 Share Posted March 21, 2008 I don't understand what "advanced niche" means. A niche is a niche is a niche, right? Right Lr, Niche. Why are humans more advanced? The daily living of a human, say to a elephant is more advanced. Agree? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neon Genesis Posted March 21, 2008 Share Posted March 21, 2008 Your question still makes no sense. First, you say that animal are advanced in their own ways, just as human are advanced in our ways, but then turn around and ask us why are animal's advancements inferior to human advancements. Again, you're flip-flopping. That's like saying apples taste best when they're at their freshest and oranges taste best at their freshest, but then turn around and ask us why apples are better than oranges as if it's an objective claim that apples are always better than oranges. Then when we point this out that apples aren't always better than oranges, you say we can't do this yet you then turn around and compare apples to oranges. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Legion Posted March 21, 2008 Share Posted March 21, 2008 I don't understand what "advanced niche" means. A niche is a niche is a niche, right? Right Lr, Niche. Why are humans more advanced? The daily living of a human, say to a elephant is more advanced. Agree? What I am suggesting Yoyo is that we are not "more advanced". Do you think that trees have nothing to teach us? Or birds, or whales, or grasshoppers, or lichen? I think they all have something to teach us. One of my favorite biologists has said, "The first lesson of biology is that there are lessons to be learned from biology." Now, I still have my bias. If given the choice to save a human from death or a trout, I will choose the human. But I am not conviced that I am so far above all the other organisms. What gives you the impression that we are advanced? Which of our attributes do you value so highly? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Abiyoyo Posted March 21, 2008 Share Posted March 21, 2008 Your question still makes no sense. First, you say that animal are advanced in their own ways, just as human are advanced in our ways, but then turn around and ask us why are animal's advancements inferior to human advancements. Again, you're flip-flopping. That's like saying apples taste best when they're at their freshest and oranges taste best at their freshest, but then turn around and ask us why apples are better than oranges as if it's an objective claim that apples are always better than oranges. Then when we point this out that apples aren't always better than oranges, you say we can't do this yet you then turn around and compare apples to oranges. Neon Genesis, I may be 'flip flopping' to you; but that is the question I was implying. Are you saying that you think the other species are superior in their advancements than the human species? If so, I'm a little lost on that. We have the advantage over other species. Physically, we have more specific parts of our anatomy that enable us to do the things that separate us from the other species. Correct? Though the other species are equipped to work their anatomy to do things that seem amazing to us, it is not more advanced than what a human can do. For ex: A bird. A bird can weave a nest with pieces of fabric, string, etc; to create this beautiful home. Humans can knock it off a tree with a broom. See my point. They are just as advanced, but in their own setting. My question I feel can't get any more direct. Why is that? Why did humans evolve into such a superior setting? Was it just by chance, when whichever theory of the start of evolution began? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kuroikaze Posted March 21, 2008 Share Posted March 21, 2008 As I said to Neon Genesis, More advanced in design, thought, communication, etc. Animals are also just as advanced in their own ways. My question was Why is that? All the physical settings were the same. Ex: Apes are supposedly the closest to us DNA wise. Why are they so much more primitive? I think the point everyone is making is that saying another species is "primitive" is totally subjective. You'll just have to accept that no one here believes your premise that humans are more advanced that other animals. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grandpa Harley Posted March 21, 2008 Share Posted March 21, 2008 Still with the 'superior' thing... Grammercy, but this fellow is tiresome... it's like explaining archery to a rock... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Abiyoyo Posted March 21, 2008 Share Posted March 21, 2008 I don't understand what "advanced niche" means. A niche is a niche is a niche, right? Right Lr, Niche. Why are humans more advanced? The daily living of a human, say to a elephant is more advanced. Agree? What I am suggesting Yoyo is that we are not "more advanced". Do you think that trees have nothing to teach us? Or birds, or whales, or grasshoppers, or lichen? I think they all have something to teach us. One of my favorite biologists has said, "The first lesson of biology is that there are lessons to be learned from biology." Now, I still have my bias. If given the choice to save a human from death or a trout, I will choose the human. But I am not conviced that I am so far above all the other organisms. What gives you the impression that we are advanced? Which of our attributes do you value so highly? LR, As I was saying to NG. The other species in this world we have the ability, technology, etc; to have superiority over. Lets narrow this down to the human species settled in America. What other species of America could cause the human species not to settle there, or go about daily life. Though these other species are just as advanced, they are not superior. See my question above. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kuroikaze Posted March 21, 2008 Share Posted March 21, 2008 Neon Genesis, I may be 'flip flopping' to you; but that is the question I was implying. Are you saying that you think the other species are superior in their advancements than the human species? If so, I'm a little lost on that. We have the advantage over other species. Physically, we have more specific parts of our anatomy that enable us to do the things that separate us from the other species. Correct? Though the other species are equipped to work their anatomy to do things that seem amazing to us, it is not more advanced than what a human can do. For ex: A bird. A bird can weave a nest with pieces of fabric, string, etc; to create this beautiful home. Humans can knock it off a tree with a broom. See my point. They are just as advanced, but in their own setting. My question I feel can't get any more direct. Why is that? Why did humans evolve into such a superior setting? Was it just by chance, when whichever theory of the start of evolution began? Do we really have an advantage on other species? Stick an unarmed man with no survival training in the jungle and see how long he lasts. The "advanced" technology that humans have access too is a result of working together within our species, and that right there is a humans main evolutionary advantage over other animals, our ability to work together, that and a brain that allows for a greater amount of abstract thought other animals. These are not always advantageous. A single human, alone, is considerably weaker than most animals. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ouroboros Posted March 21, 2008 Share Posted March 21, 2008 We can't answer the question "Why are humans like humans" until we have figured out why 1 is a 1, and not 2, and why 100 1's are the same as 100! It's a pure mystery. Even more strange is that the letter "a" is the first letter in the alphabet! It must mean something. There must be a why "a" is so more important and more advanced letter than all the other letters, because only the first letter can be the best letter and most intelligently formed and contain most comprehensive symbolics for universal understanding, so why is it "a"? And don't tell me that it just happened like that, or that language evolved and one letter just had to be the first letter in the alphabet, no, no, it must mean something, there must be an answer to "why is best and first"! Silly thoughts... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kuroikaze Posted March 21, 2008 Share Posted March 21, 2008 LR, As I was saying to NG. The other species in this world we have the ability, technology, etc; to have superiority over. Lets narrow this down to the human species settled in America. What other species of America could cause the human species not to settle there, or go about daily life. Though these other species are just as advanced, they are not superior. See my question above. Again, we only appear superior in certain limited contexts, and even then only as a group, not as individuals. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Legion Posted March 21, 2008 Share Posted March 21, 2008 The question is based on a faulty assumption in my opinion Yoyo. You asked, "Why are humans more advanced?" You also asked, "The daily living of a human, say to an elephant, is more advanced. Agree?" The first question already presupposes that we are "more advanced." It is similar in my view to ask, "Why are all cars green?" This question assumes that all cars are green. And as for the elephant, perhaps I suspect she has an inner peace quite unlike anything I have experienced. So if I value inner peace, I may say the elephant is more advanced. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Abiyoyo Posted March 21, 2008 Share Posted March 21, 2008 As I said to Neon Genesis, More advanced in design, thought, communication, etc. Animals are also just as advanced in their own ways. My question was Why is that? All the physical settings were the same. Ex: Apes are supposedly the closest to us DNA wise. Why are they so much more primitive? I think the point everyone is making is that saying another species is "primitive" is totally subjective. You'll just have to accept that no one here believes your premise that humans are more advanced that other animals. Kuroikaze. If a human can not speak to a bird, elephant, tiger, lion, and bears oh my! Couldn't help it. Anyway. We can not speak to them yet we can create their niche in a zoo. Correct? Wouldn't that make us more advanced since we can control the species? ...Wanted to add. I don't think those species are sitting there saying, These stupid humans. I can't wait till they are extinct. I could be wrong here, but most of those species are trainable, and can be domesticated; even in creating their physical niche. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grandpa Harley Posted March 21, 2008 Share Posted March 21, 2008 Final try before I lose patience... Apes are NOT primitive or inferior or superior, just different... why is this so hard to understand? As to modification of environment... I think it's interesting to see just how much we just plain wipe out... and the animals who thrive with us are? Cockroaches, Ants, fleas, tick, those things that live in our eyelashes, rats, and mice... this word superior or advanced... we're just good at being what we are, same as every other animal on the planet... and it's telling to see what succeeds in it the gaps of our 'advancement' Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Abiyoyo Posted March 21, 2008 Share Posted March 21, 2008 Neon Genesis, I may be 'flip flopping' to you; but that is the question I was implying. Are you saying that you think the other species are superior in their advancements than the human species? If so, I'm a little lost on that. We have the advantage over other species. Physically, we have more specific parts of our anatomy that enable us to do the things that separate us from the other species. Correct? Though the other species are equipped to work their anatomy to do things that seem amazing to us, it is not more advanced than what a human can do. For ex: A bird. A bird can weave a nest with pieces of fabric, string, etc; to create this beautiful home. Humans can knock it off a tree with a broom. See my point. They are just as advanced, but in their own setting. My question I feel can't get any more direct. Why is that? Why did humans evolve into such a superior setting? Was it just by chance, when whichever theory of the start of evolution began? Do we really have an advantage on other species? Stick an unarmed man with no survival training in the jungle and see how long he lasts. The "advanced" technology that humans have access too is a result of working together within our species, and that right there is a humans main evolutionary advantage over other animals, our ability to work together, that and a brain that allows for a greater amount of abstract thought other animals. These are not always advantageous. A single human, alone, is considerably weaker than most animals. Thats the answer I was looking for, except if that man were in that situation; I would assume he was not there by choice. Right? Since our capacity of knowledge would incline us to be armed. But, still, maybe my question is unknown. What part of evolution was different for us, as to my above question? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grandpa Harley Posted March 21, 2008 Share Posted March 21, 2008 BTW what are we defining as 'intelligence' here? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kuroikaze Posted March 21, 2008 Share Posted March 21, 2008 Kuroikaze. If a human can not speak to a bird, elephant, tiger, lion, and bears oh my! Couldn't help it. Anyway. We can not speak to them yet we can create their niche in a zoo. Correct? Wouldn't that make us more advanced since we can control the species? I don't see why you would think being this entails being more advanced. Again, we build those things a group, our advantage is our ability to work together. You are just going to have to accept that no one here buys into your premise. On another note, believing you are more advanced because you control something is poor logic, this would mean white people are better than blacks because we used to control them. Being controlling may just be a sign our species is a bunch of jerks. We wouldn't even need zoos if we weren't destroying the animals natural habitats. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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