Did God Create hell?

[Vixentrox]

Equality of women? You should read your bible more to see what a shitty deal women get.

[John]

Thank you for your comments, John. Too many things to respond to so I'll select my favorites. First, you don't know me and yet you have determined that I take pleasure (a sadist) in the suffering of others. I make no pretense of knowing the "fate" of Einstein or any other person. God did not elect me to pass judgement which is a good thing.

 

Ok, since you believe nonbelievers head off to Hell without justification (otherwise tell me your justification), then you must get something out of it (obviously God DOES). In fact, why do they have to go to Hell i.e. He could turn them to nothing. Einstein is in Hell (according to the Bible) since Jesus said that He was the way, the truth and the life and that no man can get to the Father except by Him. As shown here:

 

John 14:6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.

 

John 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

 

You can do all the “good” works you want, and it will not get you into heaven unless you believe in Jesus.

 

Buddhism -- give me a break. Buddhism, and there are countless sects, all have one thing in common: self centeredness and preparation for death. I was a Buddhist for 10 years, have lived in Japan twice and traveled most of East Asia.

 

So, there are innumerable sects for Christianity (20,000). What exactly is your point since they believe in the Golden Rule. Will Confucianism work for you?

 

Don't know why you're responsible for eating the fruit. You don't believe in the story so why use it as your argument?

 

I used it as an argument since you contradicted yourself.

 

Knowledge not gained from eating? Was it the ingestion or the act?

 

How would the act of eating an apple give you knowledge?

 

Concerning the Bible, you have accused me of not knowing my Bible.

 

I said that since you didn’t know He was omniscient. God already knew what Satan would do.

 

I do admit that I remain a student of the Bible. Many believe that the purpose of the O.T. is God's attempt to reveal aspects of Himself. I think we have a different view of the Bible. Evidence is very strong that God does learn. Jesus brought the new covenant because the old one didn't work. It says that in the Bible. When God flooded the earth God expresses regret and says that he'll never do it again. That implies a learning experience for Him. The God described in the book of Job is quite different than the one in the Book of Jonah. While you may prefer an immovable God I happen to like a flexible God.

 

Ok, once again you have contradicted the Bible. You have just provided evidence that God is neither omniscient, intelligent nor perfect.

 

Equality of women? You should read your bible more to see what a shitty deal women get.

 

Eve eats the fruit, go figure.

[simonpeter]

Simonpeter: (not sure if it was you who said this or not but here is my response:)

 

In response to "buddhists are self-centered" I was a buddhist for 10 years comment:

 

WERE YOU A MEMBER OF EVERY BUDDHIST SECT? 

 

Someone else pointed out all the different christian sects...I'm sure you don't agree with everything all of them teach?  So how do you know you were in a good buddhist sect?

 

And newsflash braintrust EVERYONE is self-centered to some degree.

 

And if we are discussing self-centered religions...christianity is the EPITOME of self-centered religions.  I should know.  I was a Christian for 20 years.

 

Christianity teaches that people are REALLY REALLY super important in the grand scheme of things.  We are really fucking important.  We are so fucking important that we are automatically immortal and therefore god who just LOVES us to death had to sacrifice his son so we could live in heaven forever.  IT"S ALL ABOUT US!  GLORY!

 

So take the hypocrisy and shove it up your arse.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

One last comment and then you can shoot me down. You don't know Christianity. You may have been a pretend Christian. I was for the first 21 years of my life. I left the faith for thirty more years and now a believer for 8 years. If you were a Christian you would have learned that it teaches that we are not super important but extremely broken and undeserving of His grace. I appreciate the grace you have shown by telling me where to shove things.

[Java]

I wanna say tl;dr but I did read everything.

 

Honestly, Ezekial 18 is what kills Christianity. Let's do a quote here:

 

20 The soul that sinneth, it shall die. The son shall not bear the iniquity of the father, neither shall the father bear the iniquity of the son: the righteousness of the righteous shall be upon him, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon him.

 

21 But if the wicked will turn from all his sins that he hath committed, and keep all my statutes, and do that which is lawful and right, he shall surely live, he shall not die.

 

22 All his transgressions that he hath committed, they shall not be mentioned unto him: in his righteousness that he hath done he shall live.

 

So, no, we are NOT responcible for the sins of Adam and Eve, our forefather and foremother in the Judeo-Christian Tradition. And even if we sin, all we need to do is turn from it and do good again and we are forgiven.

 

Remind me why we need Christ again?

 

EDIT: OHSHI-- Here comes the "You weren't a TRUE CHRISTIAN ©" stuff. Having a heart-attack from not-suprise here.

[John]

Ok, since you believe nonbelievers head off to Hell without justification (otherwise tell me your justification), then you must get something out of it (obviously God DOES). In fact, why do they have to go to Hell i.e. He could turn them to nothing. Einstein is in Hell (according to the Bible) since Jesus said that He was the way, the truth and the life and that no man can get to the Father except by Him. As shown here:

 

Another question: What was Hell for? They’re in there forever, so they don’t learn a lesson. Also, would you do the punishment instead of Satan doing it? If no why not?

 

So, no, we are NOT responcible for the sins of Adam and Eve, our forefather and foremother in the Judeo-Christian Tradition. And even if we sin, all we need to do is turn from it and do good again and we are forgiven.

 

Uh, does sex ring a bell? This occurred after they ate the forbidden fruit. Here is the verse:

 

Genesis 3:16 Unto the woman he said, I will greatly multiply thy sorrow and thy conception; in sorrow thou shalt bring forth children; and thy desire shall be to thy husband, and he shall rule over thee.

 

As you can see, He punishes you too (even though you weren’t born) .

 

Here are verses, which contradict yours:

 

Gen.9:21-25

"And Ham, the father of Canaan, saw the nakedness of his father .... And Noah awoke from his wine, and knew what his younger son had done unto him. And he said, Cursed be Canaan [Ham's son]; a servant of servants shall he be unto his brethren."

 

Ex.20:5 , Dt.5:9

"I the Lord thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation."

 

Ex.34:7

"Visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children, and upon the children's children unto the third and to the fourth generation."

 

Num.14:18

"Visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation."

 

Dt.23:2

"A bastard shall not enter into the congregation of the LORD; even to his tenth generation shall he not enter into the congregation of the LORD."

 

Dt.28:18

"Cursed shall be the fruit of thy body."

 

2 Sam.12:14

"The child also that is born unto thee shall surely die."

 

2 Sam.21:6-9

Let seven men of his sons be delivered unto us, and we will hang them up unto the LORD .... And he delivered them into the hands of the Gibeonites, and they hanged them in the hill before the LORD."

 

1 Kg.2:33

"Their blood shall therefore return upon the head of Joab, and upon the head of his seed for ever."

 

1 Kg.11:11-12

"Wherefore the LORD said unto Solomon, Forasmuch as this is done of thee, and thou hast not kept my covenant and my statutes, which I have commanded thee, I will surely rend the kingdom from thee, and will give it to thy servant. Notwithstanding in thy days I will not do it for David thy father's sake: but I will rend it out of the hand of thy son."

 

1 Kg.21:29

"Seest thou how Ahab humbleth himself before me? because he humbleth himself before me, I will not bring the evil in his days: but in his son's days will I bring the evil upon his house."

 

2 Kg.5:27

"The leprosy therefore of Naaman shall cleave unto thee, and unto thy seed for ever."

 

Is.14:21

"Prepare slaughter for his children for the iniquity of their fathers."

 

Jer.16:10-11

"Wherefore hath the Lord pronounced all this great evil against us? ... Because your fathers have forsaken me, saith the Lord."

 

Jer.29:32

"Therefore thus saith the LORD; Behold, I will punish Shemaiah the Nehelamite, and his seed."

 

Jer.32:18

"Thou ... recompensest the iniquity of the fathers into the bosom of their children after them."

[Java]

o_o

 

I'm arguing AGAINST Christianity, didn't you notice?

 

And great, contradictions in the Uncontradicting Word Of Life! Jeez, not surprised some more...

[Ouroboros]

One last comment and then you can shoot me down. You don't know Christianity. You may have been a pretend Christian. I was for the first 21 years of my life. I left the faith for thirty more years and now a believer for 8 years. If you were a Christian you would have learned that it teaches that we are not super important but extremely broken and undeserving of His grace. I appreciate the grace you have shown by telling me where to shove things.

I just hate that kind of comment, excuse me. It pisses me off!

 

How do you know that someone wasn't a true Christian?

 

How are you so sure you are a true Christian?

 

If I asked Zoe that when she was Christian, she would have pointed finger to you instead, and said that you weren't a true Christian!

 

Actually I don't think you were a true Buddhist, so you can't say anything about it.

 

And, since you left Christianity for so many years, then you weren't Christian in the time before (but you probably agree to that).

 

And also, this means 99.999999999% of Christians are not True Christians, because you have the validation process at hand and all figured out. Oh Master!

[John]

Christianity is already proved to be false with those verses I provided. How is it right for someone to be punish for someone elses actions? I was merely pointing out that Christianity is already disproven with those verses. Thats all.

[simonpeter]

I just hate that kind of comment, excuse me. It pisses me off! 

 

How do you know that someone wasn't a true Christian?

 

How are you so sure you are a true Christian?

 

If I asked Zoe that when she was Christian, she would have pointed finger to you instead, and said that you weren't a true Christian!

 

Actually I don't think you were a true Buddhist, so you can't say anything about it.

 

And, since you left Christianity for so many years, then you weren't Christian in the time before (but you probably agree to that).

 

And also, this means 99.999999999% of Christians are not True Christians, because you have the validation process at hand and all figured out. Oh Master!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Come on, Hans, give me a break. Anyone, I mean everyone who made a profession of Christianity clearly understands that believing in the death and resurrection of christ means nothing, absolutely nothing, if we do not repent of our sins and understand that none of us deserve salvation. Zoe, claiming to be a 20 year Christian dares to say that Christanity teaches that believers are special. Either Zoe is not telling the truth or never took a profession of faith;i.e., a practicing Christian. Zoe, like many others on this site are not exchristian but certainly anti-christian. Yeah, it's a judgement call on my part and it's a sin to judge others, but I do sin from time to time. Quite often, actually.

 

And yes, in my first years I did not grasp the true meaning of Christianity. I was a hypocrite then. I remain a hypocrite today but hopefully with less frequency.

 

Yes, I was a practicing Buddhist. I went to college in Japan and at one time a linguist. I belonged to a small, hybred sect called Seicho No Ie, less than 3 million members. But none of that matters.

 

Am I sure I am a true Christian? Let me say that I continue to be a struggling Christian.

 

But, this is my last comment. I promise. I find this forum far from a debate but an opportunity for hateful and angry people to rant. It has been an interesting experience.

[Ouroboros]

Come on, Hans, give me a break. Anyone, I mean everyone who made a profession of Christianity clearly understands that believing in the death and resurrection of christ means nothing, absolutely nothing, if we do not repent of our sins and understand that none of us deserve salvation. Zoe, claiming to be a 20 year Christian dares to say that Christanity teaches that believers are special.

No, she said Christianity is self-centered.

And newsflash braintrust EVERYONE is self-centered to some degree.

 

And if we are discussing self-centered religions...christianity is the EPITOME of self-centered religions. I should know. I was a Christian for 20 years.

 

And yes, she also said:

Christianity teaches that people are REALLY REALLY super important in the grand scheme of things. We are really fucking important. We are so fucking important that we are automatically immortal and therefore god who just LOVES us to death had to sacrifice his son so we could live in heaven forever. IT"S ALL ABOUT US! GLORY!

SimonPeter, do you say you don't agree to this? People are not "super important", and you're not "automatically immortal" when you get saved? And God loves the Christian so much and rewards him eternal blessings, but loves the sinner so much that he gives him eternal damnation? That is not a sign of true love and care for people! We are not equal in Gods eyes. The believer can sin and go to heaven, the un-believe can be rigtheous and go to hell.

 

When my kids do bad thing, they get punishments according to their actions, and not extreme punishments to small mishaps.

 

Same thing in society, for instance murder, you get lifetime prison or death penalty. Not even infinite torture for murder.

 

But with God, here's how the it goes:

 

A. Don't believe in God, get to eternal damnation and punishment. - Extreme punishment!

 

B. Kill other people of other religions in the name of God, get your name in the holy book for everyone to adore. Kill disobedient kids, God loves you. Have some Inquisition in the name of God, and you have your spot saved in Heaven.

- Suddenly God goes softy, because it's his babies doing it!

 

Either Zoe is not telling the truth or never took a profession of faith;i.e., a practicing Christian. Zoe, like many others on this site are not exchristian but certainly anti-christian.

Now we are, and now we see the light, and now we know how awful the liturgy is.

 

Yeah, it's a judgement call on my part and it's a sin to judge others, but I do sin from time to time. Quite often, actually.

That's funny... I don't... you know how? I don't believe there is any sin, so nothing I do is a sin. But I do believe there are right and wrong things to do, but sin is not a concept anymore. So you have more sin than I do... Does that mean I'm a better candidate for Heaven?

 

And yes, in my first years I did not grasp the true meaning of Christianity. I was a hypocrite then. I remain a hypocrite today but hopefully with less frequency.

No comment.

 

Yes, I was a practicing Buddhist. I went to college in Japan and at one time a linguist. I belonged to a small, hybred sect called Seicho No Ie, less than 3 million members. But none of that matters.

You see a sect. I have Buddihst friends and they're not selfish. So why you say they're selfish, I can't understand...

 

Am I sure I am a true Christian? Let me say that I continue to be a struggling Christian.

 

But, this is my last comment. I promise. I find this forum far from a debate but an opportunity for hateful and angry people to rant. It has been an interesting experience. 

Some are hateful and angry, and with reason too. They've been hurt by people claiming to be Christians, some even have been raped and molested. You have to understand that. I'm definitely not hateful or angry, except for one particular thing, and that's the one I slammed you with.

 

Never, I say Never, claim that someone wasn't a true Christian. Never I SAY!

 

It's a pet peeve of mine.

 

It's the most obnoxious and arrogant thing you can tell anyone that has been hurt by the religion you adore and adhere to. That's like stepping, no... slamming with a sledgehammer, on someones toes. I promise you they will scream, so when they do, don't blame them for hurting, blame yourself for hitting their toes!

 

By doing that, you showed your intolerance and unrespect to other peoples feelings and experiences, and they deserve an excuse from you!

[Vigile]

Zoe, like many others on this site are not exchristian but certainly anti-christian. Yeah, it's a judgement call on my part and it's a sin to judge others, but I do sin from time to time. Quite often, actually.

 

So you are justified in making this judgment? What is your litmis test?

 

Either Zoe is not telling the truth or never took a profession of faith;i.e., a practicing Christian. Zoe, like many others on this site are not exchristian but certainly anti-christian.

 

You don't know these people very well if you dare to make such a statement. And yes many of us here are anti christianity and some even anti christian. I myself hate christianity with the white hot furry I store up for the white house and it's domestic and foreign policy. I certianly don't hate christians though. My family, who I love, are for the most part christian. Many of those most dear to me are still christian.

 

It occurs to me that you believe that it is impossible to fall away from true faith, thus ipso facto, we must have never believed in the first place. Well, lucky you that you were one of the chosen few. Lucky for me I choose reason. Personally I think I got the better deal.

[Cerise]

Come on, Hans, give me a break. Anyone, I mean everyone who made a profession of Christianity clearly understands that believing in the death and resurrection of christ means nothing, absolutely nothing, if we do not repent of our sins and understand that none of us deserve salvation. Zoe, claiming to be a 20 year Christian dares to say that Christanity teaches that believers are special. Either Zoe is not telling the truth or never took a profession of faith;i.e., a practicing Christian. Zoe, like many others on this site are not exchristian but certainly anti-christian. Yeah, it's a judgement call on my part and it's a sin to judge others, but I do sin from time to time. Quite often, actually.

 

And yes, in my first years I did not grasp the true meaning of Christianity. I was a hypocrite then. I remain a hypocrite today but hopefully with less frequency.

 

Yes, I was a practicing Buddhist. I went to college in Japan and at one time a linguist. I belonged to a small, hybred sect called Seicho No Ie, less than 3 million members. But none of that matters.

 

Am I sure I am a true Christian? Let me say that I continue to be a struggling Christian.

 

But, this is my last comment. I promise. I find this forum far from a debate but an opportunity for hateful and angry people to rant. It has been an interesting experience. 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

 

Cheese with your whine?

 

Go whine to your god like always. "ooh the nasty atheists said mean things to me and I couldn't let my precious ears be bloodied with their meanness!! This must be because their hateful and angry, not because I asked extremely stupid questions and made giant ASSumptions."

 

Get off the cross. And go back home to mummy.

[Purple Rhino]

Come on, Hans, give me a break. ...

But, this is my last comment. I promise. I find this forum far from a debate but an opportunity for hateful and angry people to rant. It has been an interesting experience. 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Is he gone yet?

 

I still don't understand why people like this come here with judgement and cries of "I'm a REAL christian" "If I debate with these lost sinners and prove them wrong then I'll ..."

 

What they really think is "I have no life or friends to spend time with. I am a christian but I really suck as a person so I'll go be superior and feel the tingle of telling those less than myself that they are going to suffer in hell. While I laugh my ass off with jesus."

 

To debate the bible IMO is no different than debating Bros. Grimm.

They are both stories with lessons, just somehow whales that swallow caught on more than trolls under bridges.

 

PR

[cerebralchristian]

You can have your doubts whether Hitler was a Xtian, but according to "most" Xtian faiths, accepting Jesus brings you to heaven.  Hitler and all his SS death camp aparatus could have just before thier deaths accepted Jesus and be in heaven....while the majority of the people they tortured and killed go to hell.  Yeah...that's some kind of loving god justice there for yah....

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Vixentrox,

 

My take on this is that acceptance of Jesus is a beginning. If the person does not then begin to mature spiritually and exhibit the loving and pure nature of God (with mistakes and setbacks along the way, of course), then perhaps the seed of redemption did not take root . . . yet. I say "perhaps" because it is just my theory.

 

I don't really get into the once-saved-always saved versus loseable salvation debate because I see it as six of one and half a dozen of the other.

 

Regarding Hitler, I don't see his redemption, if indeed there was an initial moment of commitment, as having taken root, but that's what I see with my limited view of Hitler's heart.

 

I see salvation as a process that deepens and begins to set over time. This has been my experience or at least my *perceived* experience.

 

I believe that time will show whether it took root or whether it might still need to take root. <shrug> Because I believe that God alone has the ability to comprehend a human heart, he alone knows exactly the person's relationship to him. So I can form an opinion, but I am not qualified to pronounce judgment.

 

One or two of the members here (I can't remember who) has asked me things like "Where do you find that in scripture?" in a similar way that a more conservative Christian than I might ask. It started me thinking about that very issue. To clarify, I do revere scripture, but I believe the Christian life is more than just that and that a person can form beliefs from more than just scripture. Unfortunately, the learning process that comes from personal interior and undocumentable conversations with the Lord is regarded with skepticism from both other Christtians and non-Christians.

 

So both groups end up thinking I'm likely delusional. <shrug and smile>

 

I don't know why many Christians on the far right recoil from the idea of interaction with spirit realm. That's not to say that I advocate or myself participate in such interaction outide the bounds of scriputal prohibitions.

 

For instance, I looked at that photo that the man posted of the Mary outside his window with the tablet. I saw the image, but I couldn't quite make out the details. But the larger point for me is that such apparitions do and should happen, I feel, if a person is interested in experiencing God in that way. I would be quite delighted were an angel to appear to me, etc. For those of you who deny the supernatural exists at all, I know it seems like nonsense. And that's logical, given your beliefs. But what I don't get is why other *Christians* run away from that dimension of spirituality.

 

So to sum up, I am sorry to see legalistic views of heaven and hell and I happily admit I don't know the details of how the "sorting" process works.

 

What I do know-- or believe, if you like, is that I myself want to be as close as possible to the Lord so that where his presence is, I will be also in whatever form he chooses. Be it on a street of gold or in some of the intersting settings described in near-death experiences, where the Holy Spirit is, there I want to be in this life and the next.

 

Rambled a lot in this post-- sorry.

 

CC

[Vigile]

FUCK YOU!

 

having said that, i can move on to my response: YOu vile, insipid little wanker. Don't you DARE presume to tell me what I did and did not believe. So just YOUR interpretation of your religion is correct. Out of ALLLLLL the interpretations YOU just happen to be right. And that doesn't make you self-centered?

 

 

Somehow I knew our pitiful premeptive defenses would not cool the fires when you read his accusations.

 

 

Bravo, he deserved that.

[Ouroboros]

Zoe, I wondered when you would answer him.

 

It pissed me off so much, it's the worst thing someone can say, what he said. Presumptious and obnoxious, and those traits prove that he is self-centered right there. So why he can say his religion is not, and the believers are not, when he say a thing like that, it right there proves your statement!

 

A - You're self-centered

 

C - No I'm not. You are stupid, but I'm not, because I'm soooo gooood!!!

 

A - Proved my point.

[Vigile]

you make me smile. 

 

 

Cool, can I join your harem?

[Vigile]

Of course.  But you can't wear a shirt.  I have a strict no shirt no shoes rule.

 

I'll lose the shirt, but this is just between us. Wouldn't want the wife to know I'm prancing around showing off the paleness that can only be aquired during a long Russian winter. (she won't care about the harem thing though, as long as I'm home for dinner)

[Ouroboros]

And here is where poor little helpless Zoe stands up for herself (but thanks Hans

You're welcome.

 

I did it for two reasons, one that you were offline, and the second that it pisses me off every time someone says it. Regardless to whom it may be directed.

 

You know about the prisons right? The child molesters are considered the lowest creature inside. To me, the lowest creatures in religious discussions are the pudding heads that downgrade themselves to utter such a statement that he did. They deserve severe capital punishment from every member...

[Skankboy]

Alright...anyone who knows me here, knows I don't get pissed off very often. But I gotta tell you Simonpeter, you win.

 

Several points on your comments here:

 

1. Jews believed in Hades?

Are you serious, you do realize that "hades" is a GREEK word! For Fuck's sake man!

 

2. Christianity flourished in the fist century under Paul?

Where the hell did you get that from? Until it's adoption by Constantine, christianity was seen as a fringe cult, nothing more.

 

3. Buddhism is self centered?

And I suppose that's why the Buddha withdrew from the brink of nirvana to teach the path to the world right, because he was self centered?

 

4. God learns.

This has got to be one of the DUMBEST things I've ever heard from a christian on this site. How can a "perfect" being not know something? Wake the fuck up!

 

5. The "Not a True Christian" argument.

FUCK YOU! FUCK YOU! FUCK YOU! HOW DARE YOU DENY OUR EXPERIENCES! Some of the people on this board were at the pulpit for decades you ASSHOLE!

 

Sorry...just had to get that out of my system...

 

[Vixentrox]

Well duh...only his interputation of Xtianity is correct....just like every other Xtian sect proclaims. Must be nice to have your head so far up your ass that you can give yourself prostrate examinations.

[Isak The Newt]

1. Jews believed in Hades?

Are you serious, you do realize that "hades" is a GREEK word! For Fuck's sake man!

 

2. Christianity flourished in the fist century under Paul?

Where the hell did you get that from? Until it's adoption by Constantine, christianity was seen as a fringe cult, nothing more.

 

3. Buddhism is self centered?

And I suppose that's why the Buddha withdrew from the brink of nirvana to teach the path to the world right, because he was self centered?

 

4. God learns.

This has got to be one of the DUMBEST things I've ever heard from a christian on this site. How can a "perfect" being not know something? Wake the fuck up!

 

5. The "Not a True Christian" argument.

FUCK YOU! FUCK YOU! FUCK YOU! HOW DARE YOU DENY OUR EXPERIENCES! Some of the people on this board were at the pulpit for decades you ASSHOLE

LOL!!!! smooooooth

how the hell is buddhism self centered?! dont they give up being self concious in order to bring peace to others? or something like that? hey does anyone still have a link to that page that shows about the stone statues drinking milk for a day, but never b4 or after? lol

[Java]

Bohdisattva. People who should be Buddhas but keep reincarnating to help others gain nirvana. People who go through the "hell" of life over and over just to help others.

 

...STILL WAITING FOR AN ANSWER TO WHY I NEED CHRIST! Since my Ezekial says I just gotta turn from sin and do good, no redeemer necessary!

[a midnight star]

NOt a real christian huh?

 

Let me tell you some thing, bubba, I was more of a christian than anyone of you who claim the title. I have yet to find a true christian, set down by the guidelines of the bible. Not a one. What I encountered in the 30 some odd years as a christian, was a bunch of self centered hyprocrites (sp) who think that just because they have a "get out of jail free card" think that this means that they can cause all kinds of harm and then "father forgive me" and it never happened.

 

You are just like those fucking assholes and to assume that I or anybody else wasn't a REAL christian, needs to go and take a good, long look into his mirror.

[Vixentrox]

Yeah, their one way tickect to heaven and loss of free will...singing praises and kissing god's holy ass for eternity. Sin not allowed in heaven after all and being able to sin constitutes free will.