Your Opinions On Jesus?

[Spiderwire]

I would have been more excited if you would have chosen to ask the question regarding if He should show Himself to everyone everyday. Thats a hard one to think on.

 

Okay, well, then prepare to be excited.

 

God, allegedly, created us because he wanted company and he wanted his company to love him. So, here is a whole world of people who God supposedly knew in the womb and he loves them and wants to have a living relationship with him. He wants to be with us and he wants us to be with him, right? Isn't this what heaven is all about? Being with God and him being with us? Well sure it is. If God were to be with us every single day (however he were to choose to do that would be up to him and certainly most acceptable to mankind), then we'd actually know him. We could talk to him and he could talk with us. Ya know what? Let's say that planet Earth was in the shitty position much of it is right now and God still showed up every day. Even if he didn't fix everything and we still died and all that, wouldn't it be nice at least to know that he's there and really keeping an eye on things? I could deal with the fact that I wouldn't get my way every time I asked him for it if I at least knew him and knew he was there. My friends can't fix shit, but we make it through together, see? I don't see what the problem is. At least he'd be there and we'd know it. Hell, even Halley's Comet shows up every seventy five years or so and everyone looks forward to that. I reckon God showing up even on that schedule would keep mankind pretty damn happy. Imagine if he actually showed up and fixed shit! I'd be more than satisfied.

[Abiyoyo]

Imagine if he actually showed up and fixed shit! I'd be more than satisfied.

 

From what it says in the Book, He is suppose to at some point. The world that is. If you are saying fixed shit as far as you personally, right now, thats what confuses most, even me.

[Spiderwire]

Imagine if he actually showed up and fixed shit! I'd be more than satisfied.

 

From what it says in the Book, He is suppose to at some point. The world that is. If you are saying fixed shit as far as you personally, right now, thats what confuses most, even me.

 

Okay, fair enough. By "fixing shit", I mean to say right the wrongs of the world. No more hungry or sick little kids. No more cancer, heart disease or AIDS. Good, clean water and fresh food for everyone - even if we gotta do all the work. No more war. No more killing. A lot more love. Lower gas prices. Free HBO. The works, ya know? Kinda like... kinda like heaven or something. I don't know. It seems reasonable since he can do ANYTHING and all.

 

And it's funny that you mention the Book again. You brought it up, so let's go to the Book, shall we? Revelation, chapter 20. Take it away, Maestro...

 

And I saw an angel coming down out of heaven, having the key to the Abyss and holding in his hand a great chain. He seized the dragon, that ancient serpent, who is the devil, or Satan, and bound him for a thousand years. He threw him into the Abyss, and locked and sealed it over him, to keep him from deceiving the nations anymore until the thousand years were ended. After that, he must be set free for a short time.

 

I saw thrones on which were seated those who had been given authority to judge. And I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded because of their testimony for Jesus and because of the word of God. They had not worshiped the beast or his image and had not received his mark on their foreheads or their hands. They came to life and reigned with Christ a thousand years. (The rest of the dead did not come to life until the thousand years were ended.) This is the first resurrection. Blessed and holy are those who have part in the first resurrection. The second death has no power over them, but they will be priests of God and of Christ and will reign with him for a thousand years.

 

When the thousand years are over, Satan will be released from his prison and will go out to deceive the nations in the four corners of the earth—Gog and Magog—to gather them for battle. In number they are like the sand on the seashore. They marched across the breadth of the earth and surrounded the camp of God's people, the city he loves. But fire came down from heaven and devoured them. And the devil, who deceived them, was thrown into the lake of burning sulfur, where the beast and the false prophet had been thrown. They will be tormented day and night for ever and ever.

 

Then I saw a great white throne and him who was seated on it. Earth and sky fled from his presence, and there was no place for them. And I saw the dead, great and small, standing before the throne, and books were opened. Another book was opened, which is the book of life. The dead were judged according to what they had done as recorded in the books. The sea gave up the dead that were in it, and death and Hades gave up the dead that were in them, and each person was judged according to what he had done. Then death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. The lake of fire is the second death. If anyone's name was not found written in the book of life, he was thrown into the lake of fire.

 

I hope you don't mind that I used the NIV... some would say I was hellbound right off the bat for that one!

 

Anyway, we were discussing God "fixing shit". It appears as if, in accordance to the Book, God does "fix shit" and does away with Ol' Scratch. Jesus is in charge!!! Everything is great! In fact, for a thousand years everything is fan-fucking-tastic. Uh-oh... HOUSTON, WE HAVE A PROBLEM. Satan is then... did I read that correctly... released? What the fuck for? What possible reason could be given for ending a world that's all screwed up (supposedly because of man's sin and Satan himself), doing some massive remodeling and having one thousand years of good times and peace, and then saying, "All righty then, Lucifer, looks like the warden has given you your walkin' papers."

 

And check this out - he gets right back to work in a world that's been kickin' it with Christ and deceives THE NATIONS. In number they're like the sand on the seashore!!! (I don't have pen and paper handy, but that's a shitload.) Satan's got them fighting mad and they're surrounding God's favorite hang out. So God kills all of Jesus' former employees (they once reigned with him and were doing a great job) and decides to give the devil the eternal ass kicking he so richly deserves.

 

We're not gonna discuss the last part out of respect for your Jewish and Muslim buddies.

 

Anyway, that's what I got for ya. Time to go cut some grass and be happy that I don't have to defend the Bible or come up with reasons why there surely must be a God that loves me and cares for me and keeps a close watch on the world that he created.

[Insanity personified]

As a former active Christian, Did anyone here believe that Jesus was actually God when they were Christians?

 

isn't that one of the basic doctrines of christianity? its common sense that former christians would have believed at least the basic tenents of christianity....

 

 

 

my opinion now?

 

Carl Sagan > Yeshua

[Abiyoyo]

Uh-oh... HOUSTON, WE HAVE A PROBLEM. Satan is then... did I read that correctly... released? What the fuck for? What possible reason could be given for ending a world that's all screwed up (supposedly because of man's sin and Satan himself), doing some massive remodeling and having one thousand years of good times and peace, and then saying, "All righty then, Lucifer, looks like the warden has given you your walkin' papers."

 

Dunno.

[Ouroboros]

Then we would lose our lifes, agree?

Do you mean our biological life? That we would physically die because God would make his presence known?

 

Or do you mean our life as a social, day-to-day, life? Yeah. That would change. But isn't that exactly the purpose of religion? To change people so they can go to Heaven and live a live where they can know and see God at every moment? So what's the diff? We're just talking about a more efficient way to execute the purpose and goal of religion. If that is bad, then the goal for religion is also bad! Which is it? Is Heaven a goal, or is a torment?

 

If Jesus Ghost was hovering around, doing miracles, able to be seen, etc. Wouldn't that either place mankind in one or two positions.

 

1.We would be confined people. Think about it. If you woke up in the morning, and knew at some point in that day God will show Himself to you. Consider this as well, since God would be real at this point. He told you He knows your thoughts, everything you do, even when nobody is looking. How would your day go? Mine wouldn't. I think God doesn't reveal Himself daily to us because our mental capacities couldn't handle it.

Eh? Our mental capacities couldn't handle it? You mean either: Heaven is impossible, or we don't have our mind in Heaven? And also, you mean we are not made in "his image?" How revolutionizing ideas you have!

 

2.The earth. How would it be? Seriously, there are truly sick people out there, and if you say there aren't, your in denial. What happens to them? Does God just take the demons out of them, or does God destroy the actual person? Jesus casted demons out of people, the OT God never ventured this. Recall, Saul. Saul's infirmity. David played the harp to sooth him. Why didn't God cast Saul's demon out when he went looking for David to kill him and Saul ended up prophecing with Samuel?

Demons? Are you serious? Do you still live in the 15th century?

 

But you don't get the point. Our destiny--supposedly--is defined by our choice here, in this world. Our choice here, right now, is based on incomplete experience and information. Hence, from arbitrary and subjective feelings, we either go to Heaven for anti-social torment (see argument above) or Hell!

 

If God truly wanted, honestly and fully, absolute and unquestionable for us to know him to exist, he would make himself known in such a manner that there wouldn't be any doubt.

 

God leaves doubt. Either intentionally and the destiny of our eternity isn't as the Bible say, or God doesn't exist.

 

Also consider that you're making up explanations to "why God wouldn't such-and-such." And how do you know your explanations are true? Have you experienced it? Do you know for a fact these arguments you're giving me? It sounds like you're reaching and making up the reasons God must have to not doing it, without really knowing the real reasons.

 

How would that go? Why didn't Jesus cast the 'obvious' demon out of Judas? Is the will of God more important than the need of our life on earth? Jesus was crucified, by people, Why didn't He save Himself? If God was here, He is the will, so there is no more will of God to be done.

If it's so bad to have Jesus hover and show himself and heal people today, then why was it good back then? If it's so bad, then he should have NOT done it. He caused a rip in the time-space-continuum and yet we don't see it today... Can you say after me: It's just fiction.

 

-Lets say God casts every demon, satanic thing out of earth, just us. Then I guess that would be Revelation. Agree? Then the Bible is true, and laid out just as it was suppose to, other than the part that everybody lives forever, even those with the infirmities. Most say all the End time prophecies already happened, so it would line up.

-Lets say God kills all the people that are truly wicked on earth. Judges everyone own their own to what they've done or not done etc. Separates the afterlife, the wicked in one place, the not wicked with Him. That would leave us at the Garden of Eden, and the Book of Adam( if you accept that), being tempted yet by Satan, againist God.

-Lets say God kills every one wicked, same as above; but instead of just tempting God's people to do things, he just tries to battle God. He loses because, God is God. Right? So. Then we have Revelations.

 

My point is this, if God revealed Himself in all Glory being God and all. Something has to happen to the people that are wicked on earth. Agree? I wish the Bible was explicit about the first scenario.

The disciples and YOU have the command to go out and do the same things as Jesus and even greater things. The greater things Christians do today is complain and whine about their petty lives and how they are "persecuted" when they can't nail the 10 commandments in the court room. No other miracles than that is truly performed. Show me some juicy stuff! Show us that your God does exist! ... But you don't! And you know why? Because you know you can't!

 

But I guess you're right, if God, with his "holiness" would demand that all sin disappeared... just like when Jesus walked on the Earth, and did miracles. All the evil people were destroyed in the whole world... no, wait, it didn't happen... did it? So he could do it before, but he can't do it now. That's what you're saying. Jesus showed himself in his resurrected body for the disciples, but he can't do it for us, because back then God could be present to evil, but today he can't... Funny how he chances all the time, depending of what kind of excuse Christians use!

 

Again, whatever God did do in the Bible (if he did anything at all, more likely they're just myths and stories) he should be able to do today. But you're argument is that he can't, because there's some kind of a problem if he did, and the world would go under. But it didn't back then!!! So you're argument is bunk!!!

[Ouroboros]

Imagine if he actually showed up and fixed shit! I'd be more than satisfied.

 

From what it says in the Book, He is suppose to at some point. The world that is. If you are saying fixed shit as far as you personally, right now, thats what confuses most, even me.

Why does he need to wait?

 

Consider that by the standards of traditional Christianity, the majority of people are lost (the road is wide...), and the longer he waits, the more people go to Hell, rather than Heaven. He's sticking to a losing bet! God is doing the same mistake as most investors that fail in the market: they don't sell in time, and then they can't get rid of their bad position but wait for it to turn, and it never will. Seriously, think about it. Lets say 30% of the world will go to Heaven, and that this number is constant. Then in 2020 (or whenever) the world have 10 billion people, that means 7 billion are NOT going to Heaven. But if God ended it today, only 4 billion would suffer the eternal consequences of torment. So God could effectively SAVE 4 Billion people from eternal suffering, just by ending it all at this moment! Is he incompetent or is he evil?

[Abiyoyo]

Again, whatever God did do in the Bible (if he did anything at all, more likely they're just myths and stories) he should be able to do today. But you're argument is that he can't, because there's some kind of a problem if he did, and the world would go under. But it didn't back then!!! So you're argument is bunk!!!

 

I had a freaky thing happen to me once when my Grandmother died. I was, from what they say, the most religious one of the family. My Grandmother was dying in the hospital. I was going to see her everyday, and my Aunts kept telling me that she was seeing black things crawling on the walls, and she told me to not let them get me. She was incoherent, in and out. One day she was talking to her sister that had been dead for 10yrs. Another day, she said "I thought they were just stories", afterward someone was talking to her, which we couldn't get out of her. It was asking her about a potato bag she stole off someones porch when she was a kid, she said "she didn't want to, and she brought them back".

 

Anyway, she wasn't very religious. My whole life I only heard her talk about God in that general way, no Bible beatings or nothing. They went to church when they were able. Before she went into the hospital that last time, in which she died. She had just got out, and that night she was eating some supper that my Aunts made. I called her to see how she was doing, she said " um this is the best dinner". Then she said " well, I guess the Lord didn't want me to come home yet". She had a heart attack that night, went back to the hospital, all that above happened, then she died. Weird.

 

You reminded me about that with what you said. Just thought I'd share it with you.

[Neon Genesis]

See where I'm getting at. This already happened. I would have been more excited if you would have chosen to ask the question regarding if He should show Himself to everyone everyday. Thats a hard one to think on.

Your post makes no sense and doesn't even dignify a response. Why can't xtians at least come up with answers that don't drive us insane trying to comprehend it so that we can even respond to it?

[Spiderwire]

Uh-oh... HOUSTON, WE HAVE A PROBLEM. Satan is then... did I read that correctly... released? What the fuck for? What possible reason could be given for ending a world that's all screwed up (supposedly because of man's sin and Satan himself), doing some massive remodeling and having one thousand years of good times and peace, and then saying, "All righty then, Lucifer, looks like the warden has given you your walkin' papers."

 

Dunno.

 

And there is where we share common ground. I don't know either. But that's what the Bible says. You can follow that religion if you like, but I'll pass.

[Abiyoyo]

Why does he need to wait?

 

.... Seriously, think about it. Lets say 30% of the world will go to Heaven, and that this number is constant. Then in 2020 (or whenever) the world have 10 billion people, that means 7 billion are NOT going to Heaven. But if God ended it today, only 4 billion would suffer the eternal consequences of torment. So God could effectively SAVE 4 Billion people from eternal suffering, just by ending it all at this moment! Is he incompetent or is he evil?

 

Hans. Isn't that the MO of most Christianity; either keeping pure in the eyes of God until the end, enduring till the end. Laborers of God trying to harvest the fields, preaching the Gospel, waiting because God is coming as a thief in the night. Keeping our lampstand visible, and not under a basket. Watching this world as we watch the weather, knowing if the time is coming near?

 

Maybe He is cashing in soon.

[Abiyoyo]

And there is where we share common ground. I don't know either. But that's what the Bible says. You can follow that religion if you like, but I'll pass.

 

Yeah. I have thousands of questions that I might be able to give myself the most logical reasoning for; but when it just comes down to it. There are some things we just don't and maybe won't know.

[Ouroboros]

You reminded me about that with what you said. Just thought I'd share it with you.

That made me think of a story from my background too, when I was a kid and we went to this Pentecostal church. Each meeting contained a part where someone would go up and witness about something they had experience where God had been a part of etc... Anyway, this lady she went up there, and told us the story about how she broke her arm, and she had to go to the Hospital and get it fixed, and so on. And while she was in the hospital she witnessed for someone about Jesus. This lady's conclusion was that God had sent her there for the purpose to witness for this other person. But I realized, even at that young age, how weird it was. Why would God make her break her arm, just so she would have to go to the hospital and witness? Why didn't God just talk to her and tell her, "go there and preach my Gospel?" I mean, there's no need for a supernatural, ultimate-powerful being, to break someone's arm to force them to go somewhere, he could instead TALK to people. He have sent angels before, and he could send them again. And my conclusion is, people read their belief into their ordinary life. They want it to be special, so they make it seem special. Life is chaotic and confusing, and they want some meaning and purpose for their lousy situation. I feel sorry for them to be so dependent on the religious drug.

[mwc]

Why God doesn't reveal Himself to everyone at once in my opinion-

 

10,000 kids are born the day after God reveals Himself everyone. ... How long do you think it would take to eventually get to zero. No more than 75-85 years? Agree? So, at that point, no person on earth has ever personally seen God.

So your argument is that your "god" has the ability to reveal itself a grand total of one time?

 

Faith in Him stays strong for thousands of years after that due to the structure of belief set up from when that day God revealed Himself. Then people begin to second guess things, after decomposition of any things of that day, lost items, hidden items, accidentally damaged items, or stored items in which we are not allowed to go see or touch.

This "faith" that you speak of...what is it? Are you going to use the definition given by Paul? Or will you go by a different definition? Don't forget that the entire "nation" of Israel got to "see" their god when they were in Sinai and supposedly heard his voice booming down from on high but Paul's much smaller god-man "vision" encountered few by comparison.

 

See where I'm getting at. This already happened. I would have been more excited if you would have chosen to ask the question regarding if He should show Himself to everyone everyday. Thats a hard one to think on.

But why should a "god" show itself to everyone everyday? I don't know if anyone is asking it to do this. But why shouldn't it show itself to anyone ever? Before we get caught up in a different discussion let's define this. President Bush. We know of him. We know where to find him (if we're so inclined) and we can certainly find him on the television. During certain public appearances if a person is willing to wait they can even see him in person. During other events you can pay money and meet with him. There are many other ways to actually encounter the man. So anyone, from the lowest person to the highest ups, can potentially meet with him personally and anyone can certainly see evidence of his existing and his impact on the world around us.

 

Let us now compare this to a "god" (choose any you like). Hmmm. Not so with a "god." We must guess as to what actions truly are, or are not, related to a "god." We can assume that a "god" is listening to what we say and responding, or not. It's up to us. But there is zero direct evidence for a god anywhere. If a "god" simply acted as the president did this would not require it to appear to everyone everyday nor would it require it to be a "Santa Claus" or do our bidding 24/7 as people often suggest because, lets face it, President Bush most certainly does not though he is quite visible to us. Yet his existence would be a given through these simple public appearances. Also, like the presidency (and other offices, etc.) these appearances certainly wouldn't serve to diminish the "god" in any way. In fact, if the president were to hide for his entire term this would be horribly detrimental to his popularity. Appearing in public only serves to reassure those around you. Your "god" is unwilling/unable to do this and you certainly know it therefore "faith" is all you have and so you come up with lame arguments to support your absentee "god."

 

mwc

[Abiyoyo]

Your "god" is unwilling/unable to do this and you certainly know it therefore "faith" is all you have and so you come up with lame arguments to support your absentee "god."

 

mwc

 

No just what I think. I at least try to put thought into it, as to God is real. Should I say, AH! This is absurd, that God will NOT show Himself to me or anyone else. No. In my mind, that statement, IF you believe in God, is absurd. He's God. Who am I to demand?

[mwc]

No just what I think. I at least try to put thought into it, as to God is real. Should I say, AH! This is absurd, that God will NOT show Himself to me or anyone else. No. In my mind, that statement, IF you believe in God, is absurd. He's God. Who am I to demand?

You are the follower of said "god," that's who. Or are you a nobody? A nothing? An insignificant? Apparently so because you fail to make "demands" of your leader and as a result your "leader" simply sits back and tells you to "take what you get and like it or I may just blot you out." If that kind of "leader" or "ruler" is the kind you want then make no demands at all. Have "faith" that, like all leaders, this one is sitting somewhere looking out for your best interests. After all a quick look around shows this to be the case, doesn't it? Of course it does. Oh, but wait, the problems are all on us and this wonderful "leader" will someday "appear" and make it all right though it's unwilling to make the slightest concessions just now. No, not right now.

 

So let us now step back from this as we're heading away from what you really said and that was that your chosen god could only appear a grand total of once for some reason. I countered that this need not be the case and it could, in fact, act along the lines of a dignitary which would be fully acceptable seeing that it is a "god" and all. This would also allow it to function in the same fashion as it does now. Take requests and grant those it sees fit. No real change there except it does make public appearences from time to time like any other public official.

 

How is it that a "god," an eternal "public official" cannot seem to make regular public appearances unlike our own finite versions but rather must rely on "faith?" How come our own public officials can do their jobs even though they are in the public eye and yet a "god" would not be able to properly govern once it were to "go public?" Being visible does not mean any of his "god" policies need change.

 

mwc

[Abiyoyo]

Mwc

I never said that God couldn't appear whenever. What your talking about is from earlier in the thread, and I was the one that asked someone about when, how, frequency, etc of when God should appear. I said this to someone else because they said God should show Himself. Then the question picked by the poster was, He should appear to everyone just once, then all would be good. Thats how I got to talking about that. It was a made up story of my thoughts to the poster.

 

Anyway, sorry for the confusion. I believe God can be wherever He wants, whenever He wants.

[Brother Jeff]

My opinion on Jesus is that He is an Invisible Magically Undead Man who lives in the sky!

 

http://christianityisbullshit.com/who-is-jesus/

 

Glory!

[florduh]

I get it now. God can do anything. Appear to people, answer prayer, inspire men to write coherently, but he chooses not to. The Bible is confusing and contradictory, but that only makes it more valid. Bottom line: nothing makes any sense in Christianity or its Bible, but that fact only makes it more true.

 

Fine.

 

Back to the OP about the divinity of Jesus. Going by Bible verses alone there seems to be a preponderance of indications that Jesus is indeed divine, though as the book is inclined to do, there are some passages that cast some doubt on that idea.

 

Beyond that "evidence", however, we can use logic and common sense (don't let me lose you here) to draw a conclusion on the subject.

 

Since we know that the character Jesus was derived from earlier Pagan gods, it follows that this mythic hero is also a god. Additionally, if Jesus is God's only begotten son, what does a god beget? It must be a god.

 

Study the earlier myths from which the characteristics of Jesus were borrowed and try to make the connection. It is another myth and it is a god myth.

[mwc]

Mwc

I never said that God couldn't appear whenever. What your talking about is from earlier in the thread, and I was the one that asked someone about when, how, frequency, etc of when God should appear. I said this to someone else because they said God should show Himself. Then the question picked by the poster was, He should appear to everyone just once, then all would be good. Thats how I got to talking about that. It was a made up story of my thoughts to the poster.

 

Anyway, sorry for the confusion. I believe God can be wherever He wants, whenever He wants.

Right. I am referring to earlier in the thread. *me goes and checks some times* It looks like you answered this other person roughly 7 hours ago. Is that too long? Does that make it no longer valid?

 

Once again you put forth the argument (do I really need to explain what that is again?) and now you're running away from it when I start asking questions.

 

To say that you said this or that is invalid because this is what you did say: "I would have been more excited if you would have chosen to ask the question regarding if He should show Himself to everyone everyday. Thats a hard one to think on."

 

I even quoted that in my response to you. But now you don't seem so "excited" by this question. You seem to want to pretend this question doesn't exist and simply side-step the entire issue. Luckily, I'm not asking this question. It's too easy to dismiss as unrealistic. I am, however, asking a realistic version of this this question.

 

Honestly, do you think that "I believe God can be wherever He wants, whenever He wants" is an answer? Just re-word it to "goddidit" or "goddoesit" and you'll see why I think it's not.

 

mwc

[Eponymic]

1.We would be confined people. Think about it. If you woke up in the morning, and knew at some point in that day God will show Himself to you. Consider this as well, since God would be real at this point. He told you He knows your thoughts, everything you do, even when nobody is looking. How would your day go? Mine wouldn't. I think God doesn't reveal Himself daily to us because our mental capacities couldn't handle it.

 

You're just too precious Yo-Yo. And I wouldn't normal respond, but i'm bored, so what the heck.

First...How would your day go? I'd say exactly as it is now. Because, other than the physical manifestation- this is what God already does. EVERYTHING IS THE SAME! He does know your thought, everything you do, yada yada yada.

 

2.The earth. How would it be? Seriously, there are truly sick people out there, and if you say there aren't, your in denial. What happens to them? Does God just take the demons out of them, or does God destroy the actual person? Jesus casted demons out of people, the OT God never ventured this. Recall, Saul. Saul's infirmity. David played the harp to sooth him. Why didn't God cast Saul's demon out when he went looking for David to kill him and Saul ended up prophecing with Samuel?

 

This logic, or these questions, when posed, always brings up the same thought in me. If an all-powerful God created this evil, deliberately allows it to propagate, and prefers to allow his people to suffer. Then is he really worthwhile? Of course, I know he doesn't exist, but it's an interesting thought for those who do believe. Why follow a genocidal maniac who is ultimately responsible for the world's pain and prefers to allow it to continue?

 

-Lets say God casts every demon, satanic thing out of earth, just us. Then I guess that would be Revelation. Agree?

 

Why did God create the demons in the first place? Hmm? If your God is responsible for all things, he's responsible for all them too.

 

In the end my point is always this, how great is a God who is so narcissistic, insecure, and vain that he wants everyone to worship him, sets people up for failure, and gets angry and burns all those who choose not to worship him.

 

I will never follow your version of God, EVEN IF he miraculously ended up being real, because any God that inflicts pain out of base, petty emotions, is no real God. It's just a celestial child who is messing with us.

 

And can you please stop saying, "Agree?" It's supremely annoying.

[chefranden]

...Show me some juicy stuff! Show us that your God does exist! ... But you don't! And you know why? Because you know you can't!...

 

And the congregation said in unison with a loud shout, AMEN!

[chefranden]

Seriously. Your making a joke about the whole thing. So how can I discuss something in which you make fun of. If you have a direct question, ask away.

 

Seriously, mwc might be making a joke about the whole thing, but then you are writing the punch lines. From reading this thread, I have to say that your replies are getting sillier and sillier as it moves along. Han has already pointed where you've been funny. Surely you don't expect anyone including yourself to take these convoluted straws seriously?

 

They're coming to take me away, ha-haaa!!

They're coming to take me away, ho-ho, hee-hee, ha-haaa

To the funny farm. Where life is beautiful all the time and I'll be

happy to see those nice young men in their clean white coats and they're

coming to take me away, ha-haaa!!!!!

 

You thought it was a joke and so you laughed, you laughed when I had said

that loosing you would make me flip my lid.. RIGHT???

I know you laughed, I heard you laugh, you laughed you laughed and

laughed and then you left, but now you know I'm utterly mad... And..

 

They're coming to take me away, ha-haaa,

They're coming to take me away, ho-ho, hee-hee, ha-haaa.

To the happy home. With trees and flowers and chirping birds and basket

weavers who sit and smile and twiddle their thumbs and toes and they're

coming to take me away, ha-haaa!!!

[barbiebrains100]

Not so fast, Chef....Here is proof of God's existence... You cannot possibly refute the evidence....

 

 

ARGUMENT FROM BLINDNESS

 

(1) God is love.

(2) Love is blind.

(3) Stevie Wonder is blind.

(4) Therefore, Stevie Wonder is God.

(5) Therefore, God exists.

[chefranden]

Seriously, if Jesus was, he died 2000 years ago (give or take). Let the poor guy be for christsake.

 

 

FIVE THOUSAND DEAD GODS

 

by glennlogan

 

No god I know is still alive -

all five thousand and seven

appear to have died.

 

The great god Huitzilopochtli

led the Aztecs' divine pack -

but He departed awhile back.

 

Zeus was fun, and had His run,

but while disguised as a swan,

they say, His neck got wrung.

 

Pluto - God of the Underworld,

offended the ladies of Hades,

and got buried in his own Hell.

 

Thor, I'm told, was big and bold,

but going out without a cloak,

they say, He died of the cold.

 

And ghosts of dead Indian gods

can't even haunt a decent tepee,

and many die on late night T.V.

 

No prisoners tremble on the altar

when their beating hearts are torn

to join Tezcatlipoca in the sky.

 

And no children scream as they

are loaded onto the simple machine

that feeds them to Moloch's fire.

 

And for ancient Greece's Dionysus,

no drums sound, no flute plays -

but, oh, weren't those the days!

 

The goddesses, too, we must include,

for all were dear to some, and lived

in our hearts until the time had come.

 

There was Athena , Gaia, and Kore,

Xochiquetzal, Minerva, and Astarte,

Ixtab, Kuan Yin, and Kali of course.

 

Five thousand gods and goddesses -

maybe ten or a hundred fifty thousand

or more, there might have been.

 

But the goddesses and gods have all

gone, one by one, until there are none

but those that are still willed alive.

 

- Gods and goddesses kept alive

by people still believing - still

trusting - in their own creations.

 

Pinocchio becomes god of the wood,

while Pygmalion falls on his knees

before his goddess of stone, Galatea.

 

We remember the Loving Mother

and the Father the All-Mighty

looming large in an infant's eyes.

 

For each girl-woman makes the God

she craves and needs - then kneels

before Him and says, "Oh, please!"

 

And each boy-man makes himself

a Goddess that he wishes,

giving a Mother's hugs and kisses.

 

And older men and women tend

to make our gods with

wrinkled brow and constant pout.

 

Still we always make our gods

to look a lot like me and you -

one head, one mouth, two eyes.

 

But the god of songbirds flies,

and the gods of all the fishes

must swim through ocean skies.

 

The god of cattle may be a bull,

or just maybe it's a cow -

I can't hope to settle that now.

 

But I am well informed by

one who ought to know:

the god of dogs is a bitch!

 

God laughs? Not on your life!

The joke's on us - but I'm told

She's heard this joke before!

 

This poem is from

"Prayers to a Dead God: 125 Poems,"

published in January of 2001 by North American

International, and available from online book sellers