Any Ill Will Toward Christians?

[Drifter]

I'm just curious, do you {exchristians} have any ill will toward Christians now?

[Deva]

No, I personally don't have any ill will towards people for being Christians or, actually, any other religion. I am surrounded by Christians all day and it would not be in my best interest to harbor ill will.

 

Problem is with the internet we can only look at what other people write; we don't know them. So, most Christians that come on this site usually try to preach to us as if we haven't heard it before about a million times and with a superior attitude. Its a disrespect toward us that does not come off very well. Of course I only speak for myself.

[florduh]

No.

 

We used to BE Christians. We are married to them, we have brothers and sisters who are believers, we have Christian parents and children.

 

No, we harbor no ill will.

 

What irritates some of us and gets us a little testy is someone who tries to tell us what the Bible REALLY says and we just misunderstand. Or that we never were REAL Christians in the first place. People who preach to us as if we have never read the Bible or been to a church service. It's also frustrating to get repeated arguments from people who insist on using the Bible to prove the Bible.

 

But Christians per se are fine, as long as they don't consider us their special mission field.

 

Is that helpful?

[Drifter]

Okay. Now, what do yall consider "preaching"? Is it simply witnessing or is it something more?

[Kuroikaze]

Depends on what you mean by Ill will.

 

Do I wish bad things on Christians? Do I hate them? Not at all. I think the religion is false, but I don't hate believers in it anymore than I would hate myself for believing in it for years.

 

On the other hand, there are a lot of things that Christians perceive as Ill will from me which is not intended as such. If a Christian tries to preach the "gospel" I'll tell him in no uncertain terms what I think of the religion and why I won't believe it.

Instead of simply letting it drop, most take this as a challenge to prove me wrong. They can't, of course, at least not to my satisfaction, and when I tell them so, they often think I'm badgering them or treating them badly.

 

Or when I tell people I think its wrong to not support gay marriage, Christians often act as if I'm doing something horrible, or harming them for simply standing up for what I believe is right. I've got into many arguments simply because I would not back down from a position like this.

 

But I bear them no ill will nor would I see their civil rights limited, I would wish that they live happy lives just as I would for any non-believer.

[florduh]

Okay. Now, what do yall consider "preaching"? Is it simply witnessing or is it something more?

 

We're not here to be "saved." We're here to support each other after escaping the brainwashing of the Christian cult.

[Kuroikaze]

Okay. Now, what do yall consider "preaching"? Is it simply witnessing or is it something more?

 

I'd say when someone starts telling me I'm going to hell, that's preaching.

 

When someone tells me Its obvious there is as god, and thus I'm an idiot for believing otherwise, that's preaching.

 

When Christians try to force moral values on everyone else (A.K.A. ban gay marriage, teach creationism in science classrooms) that's preaching.

 

Generally speaking, I have no problems discussing peoples beliefs, but the main difference between a discussion and preaching is that a discussion is an exchange of ideas, where both people come away learning something. Preaching is when one person invades another's space uninvited and then proceeds to tell them how they should think, believe and act. There is no exchange of ideas, because that person is already certain they know everything they need to know. No one learns anything, the Christian most of all.

[Deva]

Okay. Now, what do yall consider "preaching"? Is it simply witnessing or is it something more?

 

 

Someone coming on a site like this that is clearly labelled "ex-christian" and witnessing - to me its the same as preaching. Maybe you would give us your definition of those words, Drifter?

 

This is our internet refuge from a barrage of Chrisianity that is thrown at is in the real world by our families and others.

[buffettphan]

Please don't nitpick on the words...preaching, witnessing, proselytizing, proclaiming, moralizing, saving, warning, advising....you name...we've heard it. Been there, done that, got the t-shirt, and we're not going back. (Once you know Santa isn't real, you can't go back to believing in him. Same thing.) A novel approach would be to present some real, tangible evidence. EVIDENCE. Not feelings. Not bible quotes. Not voices in your head. Not being touched in the heart. Some real hard physical evidence--like.......ummmmmmmmm........ a talking snake. Until then, leave us alone. This is our EX-CHRISTIAN website.

[Drifter]

Please don't nitpick on the words...preaching, witnessing, proselytizing, proclaiming, moralizing, saving, warning, advising....you name...we've heard it. Been there, done that, got the t-shirt, and we're not going back. (Once you know Santa isn't real, you can't go back to believing in him. Same thing.) A novel approach would be to present some real, tangible evidence. EVIDENCE. Not feelings. Not bible quotes. Not voices in your head. Not being touched in the heart. Some real hard physical evidence--like.......ummmmmmmmm........ a talking snake. Until then, leave us alone. This is our EX-CHRISTIAN website.

 

Then why don't yall ban the Christians that come on here, rather than tell them its alright to debate? That's what the Lion's Den is for; ar at least that's what it says.

[buffettphan]

Then why don't yall ban the Christians that come on here, rather than tell them its alright to debate? That's what the Lion's Den is for; ar at least that's what it says.

 

 

DEBATING is not the same as preaching, witnessing, proselytizing, proclaiming, moralizing, saving, warning, advising.........

[Deva]

Then why don't yall ban the Christians that come on here, rather than tell them its alright to debate? That's what the Lion's Den is for; ar at least that's what it says.

 

Because it is thereputic for some ex-christians to debate the preaching in the Lions Den. It took some of us many years to escape from Christianity and there we see over and over the same weak arguments for Christianity.

 

Serious debate takes place in the Arena or Colosseum areas, of which we have not seen very many.

 

What's your point Drifter? Do you expect to come on a site like this and present Christianity with no opposition or be treated with kid gloves?

[buffettphan]

Drifter,

 

While you're trying to come up with some good debate points, here are some other biblical feats, that if you perform, would be evidence.

 

1. Move a mountain.

2. Drink a glass of poison and not be harmed.

3. Handle a poisonous snake and not be harmed.

4. Give all your money and possessions to the poor.

5. Reconcile all biblical inconsistencies and contradictions.

 

And remember--you can't use a source (i.e. bible) to prove a source (i.e. bible).

 

That's a start, anyhow.....go for it.

[buffettphan]

Just wondering......

 

Have you all noticed an abundance of new posters whose god is "Yeshua"?

 

[Drifter]

Then why don't yall ban the Christians that come on here, rather than tell them its alright to debate? That's what the Lion's Den is for; ar at least that's what it says.

 

Because it is thereputic for some ex-christians to debate the preaching in the Lions Den. It took some of us many years to escape from Christianity and there we see over and over the same weak arguments for Christianity.

 

Serious debate takes place in the Arena or Colosseum areas, of which we have not seen very many.

 

What's your point Drifter? Do you expect to come on a site like this and present Christianity with no opposition or be treated with kid gloves?

 

 

If you have seen the place I work at, you wouldn't even ask. I have very thick skin, and have no need to be treated with kid gloves. It's just that when I talk to people around here, they seem to have a preconceived idea of what I'm going to say, or what I believe. Most of the people I've seen post around here are exevangelicals or have a real problem with fundies. I'm neither. Yet, people assume my beliefs or guess my "angle" before I even say anything.

[Drifter]

Just wondering......

 

Have you all noticed an abundance of new posters whose god is "Yeshua"?

 

 

I know you're not insinuating that I'm making alot of different accounts.

[buffettphan]

I know you're not insinuating that I'm making alot of different accounts.

 

I was asking a general question (not just of you!).

I don't insinuate anything.

If I have something to say, I say it.

 

So, to spell it out, Drifter, I was not insinuating that you made a lot of different accounts. (But now I have to ask since you brought it up first, did you?) Actually, I was wondering if some Yeshua-cult members recently found out about our website...hence the abundance of Yeshua-cultists posts.

[hereticzero]

No, why? Is it Christmas yet? Oh, you said, 'ill towards christians', sorry, my mistake.

I don't hate christians. I hate their smarmy message of make-believe friends and an invisible sky-daddy that cursed all of creation over a piece of fruit given to a little girl by a talking snake. jesus is based on this fable. I do not see god killing himself over a fable. It is not what we think about christians, it is the story that has an unholsome flavor.

[xandermac]

yes

[hereticzero]

'Yeshua' is one more made-up name of someone's messiah.

[Deva]

It's just that when I talk to people around here, they seem to have a preconceived idea of what I'm going to say, or what I believe. Most of the people I've seen post around here are exevangelicals or have a real problem with fundies. I'm neither. Yet, people assume my beliefs or guess my "angle" before I even say anything.

 

I know you say you are someone who is considering converting to Eastern Orthodoxy. There are obviously some differences between Eastern Orthodoxy and evangelical Christians, but at the core its the same doctrines, sin and salvation, atonement, God loves us, etc., which we already have heard many times, and which you have stated in your recent posts. I don't know why we shouldn't make some assumptions since you present yourself as a Christian. I, for one, only address things you have said.

[Drifter]

No, why? Is it Christmas yet? Oh, you said, 'ill towards christians', sorry, my mistake.

I don't hate christians. I hate their smarmy message of make-believe friends and an invisible sky-daddy that cursed all of creation over a piece of fruit given to a little girl by a talking snake. jesus is based on this fable. I do not see god killing himself over a fable. It is not what we think about christians, it is the story that has an unholsome flavor.

 

So if you encounter a Christian in real life, what do you do when you find out they're a Christian? Do you try to deconvert them?

[Drifter]

It's just that when I talk to people around here, they seem to have a preconceived idea of what I'm going to say, or what I believe. Most of the people I've seen post around here are exevangelicals or have a real problem with fundies. I'm neither. Yet, people assume my beliefs or guess my "angle" before I even say anything.

 

I know you say you are someone who is considering converting to Eastern Orthodoxy. There are obviously some differences between Eastern Orthodoxy and evangelical Christians, but at the core its the same doctrines, sin and salvation, atonement, God loves us, etc., which we already have heard many times, and which you have stated in your recent posts. I don't know why we shouldn't make some assumptions since you present yourself as a Christian. I, for one, only address things you have said.

 

Except for the God loves us part, even in the doctrine you mentioned {sin, salvation, atonement}, there are differences.

[Kuroikaze]

If you have seen the place I work at, you wouldn't even ask. I have very thick skin, and have no need to be treated with kid gloves. It's just that when I talk to people around here, they seem to have a preconceived idea of what I'm going to say, or what I believe. Most of the people I've seen post around here are exevangelicals or have a real problem with fundies. I'm neither. Yet, people assume my beliefs or guess my "angle" before I even say anything.

 

Yeah, whether you are a fundy or not remains to be seen. Its not that I think you are lying or anything, but we've had lots of people come here saying they weren't and it didn't stop them from being jerks.

 

As for us assuming. Think of it this way, even if fundies don't admit it, evangelism is about manipulation and taking advantage of people in weak states of minds. Being that we were there, we know all the tactics.

 

Its like trying to con an ex-con man, its hard because they know what too look for, on the other hand an ex-con man is going to be more suspicious of everyone in general.

You may not be trying to evangelize, but if you say something that sounds similar to something I would have said, I recognize it as a tactic I would have used, then I get suspicious.

 

The biggest tell is when people start speaking in Christianese, phrases like "its not a religion its a relationship" tend to irk a lot of us here. In part because it reminds of things we used to say.

[florduh]

If you have seen the place I work at, you wouldn't even ask. I have very thick skin, and have no need to be treated with kid gloves. It's just that when I talk to people around here, they seem to have a preconceived idea of what I'm going to say, or what I believe. Most of the people I've seen post around here are exevangelicals or have a real problem with fundies. I'm neither. Yet, people assume my beliefs or guess my "angle" before I even say anything.

 

Go ahead. Say something we haven't heard and refuted a hundred times. Experience indicates there is nothing new under the sun.

 

I apologize for making assumptions about individuals, but it's hard not to. I try. But when I see a politician in a blue suit and a red tie I expect him to tell me America is the greatest country in the world. If I see a guy in filthy rags sitting at a downtown corner I expect him to ask me for money.

 

Surprise me!