Any Ill Will Toward Christians?

[Kuroikaze]

Firstly, Jesus was 100% Human and 100% God.

 

And now we come to one of the many reasons I can't believe, logical contradictions.

 

Besides aren't you aware that this position is not held by all Christians? Indeed this was one of the major points of argument in the council of nicea. The position you just stated was the proto-orthodox position which was voted on by the council. So if you are thinking of becoming Greek Orthodox why are you touting theology that came from the first Catholic council?

 

If my memory serves me, the Greek Orthodox actually differs slightly from the RCC and protestants on this theological issue.

[Onyx]

Firstly, Jesus was 100% Human and 100% God. When Jesus was speaking with the Father in the Garden, asking Him to let the cup pass, He was speaking as a Human. And, even as a Human, He said "You're will be done". Jesus' divine nature, however, is always of the same mind of the Father. Jesus, who is God, wanted to die for His creation because He loves us.

 

How can Jesus be both fully God and Human? You can have parts but never full if you have a two. Absurdity!

 

As for the trinity, it is rather illogical and creepy.

I imagine a person having three different personalities but all squawking "I'm the same! I'm the same person that hath been split in three!" it is not a healthy thing to have multiple personalities and it is physically impossible to have more than two person grafted on to a human body, (Assuming that you anthropomorphize your God.)

Besides, if there are three persons in one, there will be huge power struggles and it is difficult enough for some human siamese twins to co-exist peacefully.

 

As for God and the Son loving humanity, if the trinity theory holds true then Iesus is also responsible for the genocide, ordering rape, wars, commanding death penalties for harmless actions such as eating shellfish and cross garments clothing and the Flood. All these actions are vile, immoral and repungent. If a human committed these crimes, he'd be rightly branded an evil and sadistic dictator but God (And Iesus) somehow isn't! And you say he loves us all!

 

Christ defeated spiritual death. Before acceptance of Christ and Baptism, we are dead in our sins. Christ is the Resurrection and the Life; He brings us to life.

 

There is no such thing as spiritual death or sin or a supernatural saviour. We make our own lives and what you call sin (I don't mean the irrational ones) is crime or misbehaviour. We choose to save ourselves or not. As for spiritual death, how can a soul (if you define it as immortal and preordained by God) die by not choosing to be a follower of Christ? There is no soul.

 

We act on our brain, nerves, perceptions, our senses, blood circulation, lungs, intestines, heart, our sexual organs, waste systems, muscles and chemicals that is all. It is no less wondrous to be a human, not degrading to know that you are wired, not souliced and it certainly doesn't make you any less of a human worthy of respect and attention. It is sad however to think you are going to be tortured forever by a God that you profess to love, sad to think the world is corrupted by an apple, sad to think everybody except yourself are evil and going to hell and saddest of all, you are hoping for a nonexistent, humdrum eternal afterlife, forgetting about the very real, infinitely more exciting and ravishingly beautiful human life you right now are living out and wasting. Which is it, God and Iesus brooding, listening to you playing harp music or you and your friends going out laughing and bowling?

 

In the end, it is ourselves that makes all the decisions, we must respect reality, we must all respect and love each other.

[Taphophilia]

Firstly, Jesus was 100% Human and 100% God. When Jesus was speaking with the Father in the Garden, asking Him to let the cup pass, He was speaking as a Human. And, even as a Human, He said "You're will be done". Jesus' divine nature, however, is always of the same mind of the Father. Jesus, who is God, wanted to die for His creation because He loves us.

 

So, let me get this straight, god committing the heinous act of child sacrifice is a-okay as long as the child agrees with it and/or willingly becomes the sacrifice?

[Dhampir]

Firstly, Jesus was 100% Human and 100% God. When Jesus was speaking with the Father in the Garden, asking Him to let the cup pass, He was speaking as a Human. And, even as a Human, He said "You're will be done". Jesus' divine nature, however, is always of the same mind of the Father. Jesus, who is God, wanted to die for His creation because He loves us.

 

 

Christ defeated spiritual death. Before acceptance of Christ and Baptism, we are dead in our sins. Christ is the Resurrection and the Life; He brings us to life.

 

Firstly, Jesus was 100% Human and 100% God.

Logically this is possible IF what you're saying is that a human can be god. Therefore god=human and humans can be god. Of course, what you really mean, is that Jesus, being god, is somehow 100% god, and his father, to whom he supplicates in Gethsemane is a separate entity, but also 100% god. The same god. Now logically, this is every bit as impossible as it is infeasible. Senseless it is, that Jesus would beg himself to change his mind about the upcoming travails, and your explanation that Jesus' divine side made him accept his fate over-complicates the issue, as if no one in history has ever uttered a statement to the effect of "Well, I'd rather not do this, but if there's no other way, then...."

 

There is no math you can do which makes 1+1+1 = 1. Now unless you can refute that, and not by saying "god's logic is different" or somesuch, logic is logic, regardless of who it is applied to, then I would suggest that you don't state as fact an assertion so obviously baseless. Btw, This picture doesn't prove anything.

 

Neither does this one or this one

[Spiderwire]

Firstly, Jesus was 100% Human and 100% God. When Jesus was speaking with the Father in the Garden, asking Him to let the cup pass, He was speaking as a Human. And, even as a Human, He said "You're will be done". Jesus' divine nature, however, is always of the same mind of the Father. Jesus, who is God, wanted to die for His creation because He loves us.

 

Christ defeated spiritual death. Before acceptance of Christ and Baptism, we are dead in our sins. Christ is the Resurrection and the Life; He brings us to life.

 

See? As long as you're saying stuff like this, your credibility goes right down the crapper.

 

Jesus was 100% human and 100% god. How do you know this? Really. How do you KNOW it? You don't. You can't! The only basis for you uttering such nonsense is because you've been told that and you "referenced" it in a book that's comprised of a hodge podge of ancient religious writings. You can't even say that you know for certain that this Jesus was even a human being that walked on the planet.

 

Jesus, who is God, wanted to die for His creation because He loves us. If you could step back for a moment... if you could step out of your mindset... even for just a moment... you would see how absolutely ridiculous a statement like this sounds and how absolutely deluded you sound making it.

 

Do you think some of us willingly and flippantly tossed off our faith? I hope, and I really mean this, that you never have to face a single hour of the realization that you're alone. I hope you never have to experience a situation or a circumstance that renders statements like you're making or even the simple awareness of them totally inconsequential and irrelevant. When those hours become years and those situations and circumstances threaten to overtake you and define your existence, theology becomes useless. You may find yourself scrambling for some kind of a foothold in all of the scriptural knowledge you possess as you begin to realize that you're actually tumbling uncontrollably into a chasm that's far deeper and darker than even what you've been experiencing. If you find yourself in such a position and in such a place, I hope your god will toss you some crumbs from his table. I hope he will give you an inkling of something that is real that will help you hang on.

 

He gave me nothing.

 

So as you sit there and reel off your spiritual catchphrases and speak of the religiosities that you claim as life-bringing truths, you'll have to pardon me for wondering why the fuck you decided to come here and butt in on our normal and enjoyable conversations here at Ex-C.

[Vigile]

Firstly, Jesus was 100% Human and 100% God.

 

Yada, yada, yada... 100% can only be 100%. This is a nonsensical statement. I know you take this statement on faith, but this is just one example of how nonsensical faith is.

 

When Jesus was speaking with the Father in the Garden, asking Him to let the cup pass, He was speaking as a Human. And, even as a Human, He said "You're will be done". Jesus' divine nature, however, is always of the same mind of the Father. Jesus, who is God, wanted to die for His creation because He loves us.

 

Yeah, we know. He sent himself to save us from himself. How galant. Or schizophrenic

 

Christ defeated spiritual death. Before acceptance of Christ and Baptism, we are dead in our sins. Christ is the Resurrection and the Life; He brings us to life

 

More nonsense that faith gets you. You might try examining life from reality's perspective. It can be quite mind blowing.

 

BTW, don't you find the idea that you are his bride kind of creepy? Especially if you are a hetero male. Anyway, have fun on your wedding night. And please don't post the vid on the internet, I'd like to keep my lunch down.

[Vigile]

I'm just curious, do you {exchristians} have any ill will toward Christians now?

 

In general? No. But I do feel sorry for a lot of them. Specifically? I went to a wedding this weekend and found the pastor to be quite an ass. I pitied my friends and relatives who looked up to this parasite.

 

I do harbor a great deal of resentment for xians who try and impose thier twisted values on the rest of society. This isn't even biblical. They are supposed to be in the world, not of it. They are supposed to live their lives in such a way as to be salt, not shake their salt shaker all over the government. They are supposed to bear fruits of kindness, meek humility and patience, but a whole hell of a lot of them bear fruits of self righteousness, arrogance and smug hubrus. They are supposed to worship a prince of peace yet a whole lot of them sure are bloodthirsty bastards who value the song Onward xian soldiers over songs like Amazing grace.

[Purple]

I'm just curious, do you {exchristians} have any ill will toward Christians now?

 

 

Which one? Seriously... my husband or my 12 year old? No, I think thye're pretty awesome. My ex-pastor? Weeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeell I wouldn't actaully wish ill will toward him, but if something unfortunate were to happen its not like I'd cry or lose sleep. It depends on the xian, and do they have ill will toward me or mine.

[Evolution_beyond]

Firstly, Jesus was 100% Human and 100% God. When Jesus was speaking with the Father in the Garden, asking Him to let the cup pass, He was speaking as a Human. And, even as a Human, He said "You're will be done". Jesus' divine nature, however, is always of the same mind of the Father. Jesus, who is God, wanted to die for His creation because He loves us.

 

How can Jesus be both fully God and Human? You can have parts but never full if you have a two. Absurdity!

 

 

It's a funny argument. Jesus was 100% human but not quite as sinful or imperfect as a human. Jesus was 100% God but not quite as all-knowing as God and still prone to human fears.

 

That's not 100% is it? More like 50% human and 50% God.

[Deva]

Christ defeated spiritual death. Before acceptance of Christ and Baptism, we are dead in our sins. Christ is the Resurrection and the Life; He brings us to life.

 

Can you demonstrate how this spiritual life Christians have is a different kind of life from the way everyone else lives?

 

I say there is no such thing as spiritual death and "spiritual" life - which is what I assume you are referring to. Isn't your religion very complicated? If Christians still sin and still must go to confession how are they "alive to Christ and dead to sin"?

[ghostchild]

on the original topic... do i bear ill will towards christians? yes and no.

 

I feel an incredible amount of anger sometimes. I find myself hating them, the priests and the parents especially, for forcing this lie onto everyone they can, and for refusing to accept any deviation from their own worldview. Christianity caused me a great deal of pain, and it hurts to see christians inflicting this pain on their children and on trusting individuals, and in some ways profiting from this infliction through both social status and power. The price a christian pays in terms of guilt and self hatred always seems too high to me, even in less extreme groups than my own (btw, the orthodox church is where i grew up, and they're as judgmental in terms of sin as it's possible to get.)

 

 

however, i also feel pity for them, because i know that the vast majority of it are simply too addicted and brainwashed to fight their way out. The organizations they obey have trapped them, and they are unlikely to leave. the adults, the pastors, and the priests pay the same price for their faith as the children do, and have been just as tricked, just as taken advantage of...

 

Thus, I feel both ill will and pity for the poor, broken followers of a man who would be heartbroken to see the religion that now exists. however, i have nothing but undying hatred for the churches that have twisted a very simple philosophy into... this horrible thing.

[Antlerman]

Then why don't yall ban the Christians that come on here, rather than tell them its alright to debate? That's what the Lion's Den is for; ar at least that's what it says.

 

Because it is thereputic for some ex-christians to debate the preaching in the Lions Den. It took some of us many years to escape from Christianity and there we see over and over the same weak arguments for Christianity.

 

Serious debate takes place in the Arena or Colosseum areas, of which we have not seen very many.

 

What's your point Drifter? Do you expect to come on a site like this and present Christianity with no opposition or be treated with kid gloves?

 

 

If you have seen the place I work at, you wouldn't even ask. I have very thick skin, and have no need to be treated with kid gloves. It's just that when I talk to people around here, they seem to have a preconceived idea of what I'm going to say, or what I believe. Most of the people I've seen post around here are exevangelicals or have a real problem with fundies. I'm neither. Yet, people assume my beliefs or guess my "angle" before I even say anything.

I haven't the time to read all the pages of this thread yet, but will post briefly here as the primary moderator of this forum that the Lion's Den is a place for Christians who come here to talk/debate with the membership here without causing disruptions in the other forums where the primary focus is support for ExChristians. It's not per se meant as an open invitation "Come save us", but a place where it is tolerated, and in the case of those who wish to debate encouraged to do so here, outside the other forums.

 

That said, I did notice you're from the Orthodox Church by your cross symbol. I personally don't pre-judge someone's beliefs and I know yours are different than the typical right-wing Evangelical fare. I always enjoy hearing different perspectives on the subject, and as time permits I'll read through what you have to say and possibly engage in discussion with you.

 

To answer your question, no I don't have any ill will towards Christians; only towards people who act badly towards others.

[Neon Genesis]

I don't hold ill will towards all Christians. I really don't care what other people believe as long as they aren't trying to evangelize me or use the government to force their beliefs on me, but I hate people who do this in general and not just Christians that do it. I do have a lot of ill will towards certain Christian doctrine though, like the doctrine of hell, the blatant sexism of St. Paul, and some of the homophobic teachings of traditional Christianity. I respect liberal Christianity a lot more than fundies for trying to reform their religion and I tend to agree with the liberal Christians over the biblical literalists. I wouldn't mind fundies so much if they would only keep their beliefs to themselves instead of trying to force their beliefs on others, but as it stands fundamentalist Christianity is still one of the greatest threats to our freedoms in society. I don't go around trying to actively deconvert Christians. I don't go to Christian sites seeking out Christians to debate with mostly because 1)I know that it's mostly a waste of time since most of the xtians are only interested in preaching and not interested in having any sort of meaningful dialog and 2)I would feel hypocritical to try to deconvert Christians when I don't like it when they try to reconvert me. If a Christian should challenge me to a debate, then I'll gladly defend my position but simply debating the issue isn't necessarily trying to deconvert Christians anymore so than debating politics always means that you're trying to deconvert someone from another political party to support yours.

[Robbobrob]

Firstly, Jesus was 100% Human and 100% God. When Jesus was speaking with the Father in the Garden, asking Him to let the cup pass, He was speaking as a Human. And, even as a Human, He said "You're will be done". Jesus' divine nature, however, is always of the same mind of the Father. Jesus, who is God, wanted to die for His creation because He loves us.

 

 

Christ defeated spiritual death. Before acceptance of Christ and Baptism, we are dead in our sins. Christ is the Resurrection and the Life; He brings us to life.

Jesus, as explained in the Old testement, met all the requirements for a charlatan, doing magic tricks and healing the sick. The Jews were not tricked by the smoke and mirrors. Sad that so many others have been.

 

Of course, this is so small a detail to the larger issue, the fact that the God of Israel is nothing but a localized desert deity who has been given far more power and authority than it ever deserved. It is certainly not even remotely close to what would pass as a Universal Deity....not even if it happened to control the enitre solar system....or even the entire Milky Way. Still makes it a regional deity at best.

 

When I am feeling theistic, the only God that makes a lick of sense is one that treats us all the same, on Earth as on the planets in the Andromeda galaxy....the real heavens. And sorry, Bible God does not even remotely cut that mustard (seed) as a legitimate Universe-wide deity. Heck, it can't even control its home turf, the Middle East.

[hereticzero]

No, why? Is it Christmas yet? Oh, you said, 'ill towards christians', sorry, my mistake.

I don't hate christians. I hate their smarmy message of make-believe friends and an invisible sky-daddy that cursed all of creation over a piece of fruit given to a little girl by a talking snake. jesus is based on this fable. I do not see god killing himself over a fable. It is not what we think about christians, it is the story that has an unholsome flavor.

 

So if you encounter a Christian in real life, what do you do when you find out they're a Christian? Do you try to deconvert them?

You cannot deconvert anyone, they have to discover the truth for themselves. Atheists are not on a mission and neither are nonbelievers to deconvert anyone. I don't even bring up the subject unless someone starts trying to save my soul and then I tell them like it is.

[hereticzero]

Firstly, Jesus was 100% Human and 100% God. When Jesus was speaking with the Father in the Garden, asking Him to let the cup pass, He was speaking as a Human. And, even as a Human, He said "You're will be done". Jesus' divine nature, however, is always of the same mind of the Father. Jesus, who is God, wanted to die for His creation because He loves us.

 

Christ defeated spiritual death. Before acceptance of Christ and Baptism, we are dead in our sins. Christ is the Resurrection and the Life; He brings us to life.

Jesus was 100% human and was not god. He did not want to die, this is proven in the story of his crucifiction. The stories of his final moments are not even his story, they were told by someone not even there! The dialog consists of Jesus going to pray ALONE! And then someone narrates his prayer to god. How can they if they are not there? No one was a witness to this yet someone wrote a story as if they were. This is called "FICTION". The babble is full of FICTION written as truth. If one piece of fiction is involved in the story, that makes the whole story suspect unless you have an army to beat the population into submission, which is what the church did resulting in many who never read their babbles to believe the stories are true. Where is your evidence beyond the babble that shows Jesus is god or he rose from the grave? There is none. Doesn't that make you just a little suspicious that the Jesus story is an of fiction?

[hereticzero]

The foot thing is where Jesus's feet were nailed to the cross. It's slanted because, traditionally, there were two thieves crucified next to Jesus. One thief was repentant toward Christ, and the other mocked Him and was unrepentant. The repentant thief went to heaven, and the unrepentant thief went to hell; which is indicated by one side up, and the other down on the foot rest.

And you know this, how? Were you there? I never saw written in the babble this was so. There is only two accounts (Matthew and Mark, and it is accepted as tradition that Mark was written first and that someone copied his story) in the babble of Jesus being nailed between two others. Why are the other books silent about this? Why didn't Paul mention this event in his ramblings? Makes me believe this is another passion story in print that did not happen.

[Auracle]

First of all, the Orthodox Church doesn't believe we carry around the guilt of Adam's sin. Because of his Christ did die for our sins. But it wasn't an angry God putting to death His Son. Christ came to conquer. The Cross was a victory, not a defeat. By Christ's death, he deafeted death, the devil, and hell.

 

Also, could you please explain how he defeated the devil and hell?

 

Last I heard, that wily guy was still running around, tempting people and planting naughty thoughts in their heads (and God is letting him, at that), and hell is still there and the vast majority of Earth's inhabitants are going to end up there.

 

I'm not sure what you'd call that, but "defeat" is probably the last term I'd use.

[Checkmate]

I'm just curious, do you {exchristians} have any ill will toward Christians now?

So glad that you asked.

 

First, I only bear ill will towards the ignorant, the stupid, the annoying and the insufferable. I don't care what label a person wears. If you're a nitwit and you're in my way, then I automatically bear you "ill will." (I think we can ALL confess to sharing this sentiment.) But that is my personal Rule of Thumb regarding Humanity as a whole. Let's get down to brass tacks visa vis faith practitioners, since you asked specifically about Christians.

 

From my time spent on forums such as this one, I've learned that people of faith can be sub-divided into two groups: spiritual and religious.

 

Spiritualism (the belief in god or a higher power) is a PRIVATE practice. A spiritual person believes whatever they believe because it helps them. Their beliefs change them. They live their lives according to their beliefs. It's a PERSONAL thing. They have ZERO desire to inflict their PERSONAL, PRIVATE beliefs upon others. Spiritual people are very much like atheists in this regard. Unless you bother a spiritual person they are unlikely to share their beliefs with you. They have a "live and let live" philosophy. They recognize that what's good for the goose is not necessarily good for the gander. I prefer spiritual people. I bear them NO "ill will."

 

Now RELIGIOUS people, on the other hand...

 

Whereas spiritualism is a private affair, religion is a PUBLIC NIGHTMARE. Religious people have doctrines, dogmas and demands. They demand that EVERYONE bow down to their beliefs. Be conformed, submit and be afraid...OR ELSE the Bogey Man's gonna getcha. Religious people are NEVER content to leave well enough alone. They DEMAND that EVERYONE believe what they believe. They conspire to take over every aspect of PUBLIC life from the Halls of Government, to the class rooms, to the bed rooms, and even unto our very minds! Religion is what straps a bomb on a person and blows up cafes and trains. Religion is what hi-jacks planes and flies them into buildings. Religion is what breeds intolerance, ignorance and dissent because it can't accept others being different.

 

And I don't care if you're bomb-toting religious nut job, or a smiling, love-bombing, pamphlet passing, internet posting nut job. If it is YOUR assertion that there is something "wrong" with me because I don't embrace your beliefs, and that I need to be "fixed" (one way or another), then YOU are a religious robot AND I not only bear you "ill will", but I HATE YOU with every fiber of my being. And I'll do whatever it takes to reduce you and your offensive religion to smoldering ashes.

 

My attitude has NOTHING to do with your being Christian or Muslim or whatever. It is your BEHAVIOR that determines how I will treat you.

 

So, to recap...If YOU are SPIRITUAL (private beliefs that NEVER intrude upon others), then may whatever god you believe in bless you. Let's do lunch.

 

However, if YOU are RELIGIOUS (public beliefs that demand respect and obedience from non-believers), then I am your implacable enemy and I will oppose you and confound you every opportunity I get.

 

Have a nice day.

[centauri]

Firstly, Jesus was 100% Human and 100% God.

 

That's rather odd because it violates a maxim laid down by God.

 

When Jesus was speaking with the Father in the Garden, asking Him to let the cup pass, He was speaking as a Human. And, even as a Human, He said "You're will be done". Jesus' divine nature, however, is always of the same mind of the Father.

 

If it was the same mind as the Father, then Jesus wouldn't have undermined laws that the Father gave.

 

Jesus, who is God, wanted to die for His creation because He loves us.

 

The risen and ascended Jesus claimed to have a God.

Isn't Jesus supposed to be sitting at the right hand of God?

How exactly does a 100% God sit outside of itself?

 

Christ defeated spiritual death.

 

What did Jesus do to earn the title of Christ?

When was Jesus anointed king of the Jews?

Who was the prophet or priest that presided over this anointing?

[HappyChef]

Xianity is a cancer upon the human race,it poisons people stealing free thought,creativity,empathy and identity!IT is a self-perpetuating,self-loving docturine that feeds on it's victims financially sapping the future of generations.It is a vile,sickening and deadly state of existance....just like cancer!!!

 

To make things worse it's members like yourself want to infect everyone on this planet with it,to poison the human race because "we are not of this world"!! It is "GODS" will!!!

 

SO I hate the disease with every fiber of my being....I view people like yourself as victims...UNTIL you start trying to convert people then your nothing more than disease carrying murders!

 

IF I was HIV positive and willfully and purposfully gave someone the disease,I would guilty of premediteted murder.Because there is no cure and it is ultimately fatal..... YOU ARE NO DIFFERENT!

 

NO amount of sugar coated talk covers that up,debate and tolerance do not cure cancer or xianity.

 

Daniel

[centauri]

One thief was repentant toward Christ, and the other mocked Him and was unrepentant.

 

If I remember correctly, that version of the story is only found in Luke.

In Matthew and Mark, both thieves mocked him.

 

The repentant thief went to heaven, and the unrepentant thief went to hell; which is indicated by one side up, and the other down on the foot rest.

 

If the repentant thief went to heaven, then God plays favorites, something that the Bible says he does not do.

The "saved" dead don't go anywhere until they are raised back to life when Jesus comes back for them.

The unsaved get resurrected later on as well.

[chefranden]

'Yeshua' is one more made-up name of someone's messiah.

 

It is an attempt to use the real name. Might be something like the JW calling The Lord Jehovah. If you were to translate directly to English instead of transliterating it from the Greek you would get Joshuah, but then you could say the Jesus was just Joshing you. That wouldn't do, so you try to be Jewish instead. Perhaps this makes your imaginary personal relationship more personal, if not more imaginary.

[chefranden]

First of all, the Orthodox Church doesn't believe we carry around the guilt of Adam's sin. Because of his Christ did die for our sins. But it wasn't an angry God putting to death His Son. Christ came to conquer. The Cross was a victory, not a defeat. By Christ's death, he deafeted death, the devil, and hell.

 

Well if you are not guilty of Adam's sin then why do you need Christ? (See Ezekiel 18) God has made it plain that you just change your ways to be saved.

 

The Orthodox Church has the same problem with sin as the rest of the churches, couching it in different language doesn't change anything. If this were not true then there would be no reason to be a Christian in the first place.

 

By the way were is the evidence that Christ defeated death? Are you saying that Orthodox Churches have no cemeteries? Most Evangelicals will say this nonsense about victory too. It is a load of crap. If Yeshua died on a cross he is dead, just like everyone else that ever died or will die.

 

By the way stories of the resurrection are not evidence of this said defeat. There are other god men that have resurrected in story as well. There is no reason to suppose your story is different. However, even if this resurrection happened as stated, death has not been defeated because everyone else, even Orthodox Christians, still dies. Please don't go on about spiritual death. Yeshua supposedly rose as a physical person. When Christians start doing, that you might have a case.

[Robbobrob]

Checkmate, that was a fantastic post. Sadly, as with Christianity in particular, the Religionists have started to use Orwellian doublespeak....it's not a religion, it's a relationship....in an attempt to look spiritual while maintaining the authority of the religion.

 

I have always looked at it this way. Religion is the politics of spirituality. But, spirituality needs no political structure beyond, at most, a group of people to run the physical buildings that the spiritual enjoy meeting in. It is not a benefit to spirituality to have that burden of bureacracy added to it, at best it is a necessary evil to keep the lights on and the heat working in winter. But some people have a tendancy to exploit anything for gain, and spirituality is one that is easy to exploit.