Any Ill Will Toward Christians?

[Drifter]

1. How was it involved in you deconversion?

 

It was a step away from protestantism and an attempt to reconcile myself with some form of Christianity. It did not work.

 

2. And I know. I tend to get somewhat preachy on forums, although I don't mean to be. Obviously that's how it comes off. I'm not like that in real life.

 

I am glad you recognize that. Just be aware that we have read the Bible, have heard all the Christian dogma and have rejected it. For some of us it was a painful process that took many years.

 

3. There's the saved and the lost in this Church? That's not what I get from it. From what I've learned, no one really knows if they're saved or not {Although, we can have confidence in our Salvation}. The Orthodox people I've talked to say God can save believers and unbelievers alike; and that we're not supposed to judge anyone's Salvation.

 

I don't think that the Orthodox believe anyone can really be saved outside the Church (they would probably deny it if you asked them). But notice that they have a closed communion. You cannot partake if you are not orthodox. This is the central act of the church and you can be a protestant Christian for over 20 years and you still can't participate. That is exclusivist to me. It is just like the Roman Catholic Church.

 

"God can save believers and unbelievers alike.... we're not supposed to judge" I have heard similar statements in the Baptist Chruch. Its still saved and lost, and judge they do. Its the condemned and redeemed. Sure you can always hold out the hope that someone will get saved in the future, but how is that a way to view people?

 

Actually you have no certainty of your own salvation- no matter what church you are in.

 

Let me ask you this-- if you had the realization that your religion was interfering with your ability to love God and other people (as you are commanded to do in the Bible) what would you do?

 

 

1. Okay, I see.

 

2. Yeah, I'm sure it was.

 

3. My priest said "If you see a woman sitting on a street bench, and she has a Bible, well of course she's with God." Meaning that people who truly try to follow God can be Saved. Beit Catholic, Protestant, or Orthodox. It's just that the Orthodox Church has the "fullness" of the faith.

 

At first, I kinda thought it was strange that we couldn't receive the Eucharist. But now, it makes sense to me. When I was Protestant, I believed Holy Communion was symbolic of Christ's Body and Blood, not the real thing. Holy Communion is believed to have alot more power in Orthodoxy than most Protestant churches, because it's not symbolic, it's the real thing; just like Jesus said. And, to receive the Eucharist is not like them sharing a snack with us. It's pledging dedication and alliegence to the Orthodox Church. If we're not yet dedicated to it yet, why receive it? I don't know if it's like this in all churches, but at mine, after Divine Liturgy, we go next door and eat and talk. So, in my view, it's welcoming, but there's still certian things you have to go by.

 

 

I have never heard "God can save anyone" in a Baptist church {ar any Protestant church}. I've always heard, unless you say "this" prayer, you're going to hell. They believe God can manifest Himself to anyone before death, but after death, that's it. The Orthodox believe that even after death, it is possible for an unbeliever to be Saved.

 

It is true; the Orthodox Church is called "The Ark of Salvation". It is the easiest way to get to heaven {Although there is no breezy easy way}, but God's grace is way bigger than even the Church. God's grace can reach all of humanity, whether Orthodox, heterodox, or unbelieving.

[florduh]

The Orthodox believe that even after death, it is possible for an unbeliever to be Saved.

Please, could you provide a Biblical basis for that statement?

[Drifter]

3. There's the saved and the lost in this Church? That's not what I get from it. From what I've learned, no one really knows if they're saved or not {Although, we can have confidence in our Salvation}. The Orthodox people I've talked to say God can save believers and unbelievers alike; and that we're not supposed to judge anyone's Salvation.

 

 

I remember this line from my days in orthodoxy. Take a moment to think about it, though, ok? according to the orthodox church, the orthodox faith is the *true* faith isn't it? the one that gets it right? possibly the only church in existence, christian or not, that has the apostolic faith, handed down from jesus? And doesn't the bible tell you "believe in me and be saved"?

 

isn't it taught in the orthodox church that *only* through confession and communion can sins be washed away? i was taught to believe that, while we are born without sin, we sin daily because of our fallen nature. unless those sins are forgiven, we cannot make it into everlasting life, i.e. heaven.

 

this seemed to make it clear to me that while the orthodox church doesn't want you to say "bob's going to hell and i'm not", the reason they don't want you to say that is 'cuz it makes you look like an arrogant dickhead, and also because you have no way of knowing for sure if that person isn't secretly confessing to a priest, or will one day do so.

 

the bottom line always seemed to be, if you aren't baptised orthodox or don't go to confession and communion, you're probably (not definitely but almost certainly) hell-bound. that's *why* orthodox people stay in the orthodox church, and it's what they teach their children.

 

I'm not sure if the Orthodox Church says to go through Confession and receive the Eucharist to be cleansed or not. I've studied this for a couple years, but I still have alot to learn. Although the Orthodox Church doesn't believe in a sin nature, as protestants do. They believe people are basically good, but with a tendency to sin. We're not as "lost" in their view, as protestants make us out to be. Which is why protestants tell us to have faith alone to be saved. Because we can't possible do anything good. Orthodoxy tells us to have faith and works. It's a team effort. So, I guess we're not totally depraved.

 

 

I don't know if they think you will "probably" go to hell or not. From my experience of it, they're completely "hands off" there. When Jesus said "Judge not", my priest mentioned that that means not to judge someone's eternal destiny. And it makes sense. If we do this, we make ourselves to be God.

[Drifter]

The Orthodox believe that even after death, it is possible for an unbeliever to be Saved.

Please, could you provide a Biblical basis for that statement?

 

 

I thought I mentioned that this Church isn't a "Bible Only" Church. Everything that is believed doesn't necessarily have be in the Bible.

[white_raven23]

The Orthodox believe that even after death, it is possible for an unbeliever to be Saved.

Please, could you provide a Biblical basis for that statement?

 

The Mormons believe that too.

 

Gee.

 

How about that. Guess they have the "true faith" also!

 

That or the special underwear is on too tight.

 

Isn't it usually a "bad" thing when the "fringe" or "cult" groups have the same uncommon tenets as a supposedly "orthodox" belief system?

[white_raven23]

I thought I mentioned that this Church isn't a "Bible Only" Church. Everything that is believed doesn't necessarily have be in the Bible.

 

 

Holy crap.....

 

How......convenient.

 

I was just fucking around with the Mormon comparison....but what the hell...you just self-justified any old, or new, "righteous" invention of "god's" word anyhow.

 

You got a spare copy of CultBuilders for Dummies I can borrow?

 

 

"Orthodox"????

 

Isn't this the opposite of "orthodox"???

[Drifter]

I thought I mentioned that this Church isn't a "Bible Only" Church. Everything that is believed doesn't necessarily have be in the Bible.

 

 

Holy crap.....

 

How......convenient.

 

I was just fucking around with the Mormon comparison....but what the hell...you just self-justified any old, or new, "righteous" invention of "god's" word anyhow.

 

You got a spare copy of CultBuilders for Dummies I can borrow?

 

 

Well, I mean come on. Sola Scriptura didnt come around until, I think, 1517. The Orthodox Church goes by Tradition {The Bible being a part of Holy Tradition}. I mean, icons arent in the Bible, nor is prayer to the Theotokos or the Saints.

[ghostchild]

I thought I mentioned that this Church isn't a "Bible Only" Church. Everything that is believed doesn't necessarily have be in the Bible.

 

 

Holy crap.....

 

How......convenient.

 

I was just fucking around with the Mormon comparison....but what the hell...you just self-justified any old, or new, "righteous" invention of "god's" word anyhow.

 

You got a spare copy of CultBuilders for Dummies I can borrow?

 

 

"Orthodox"????

 

Isn't this the opposite of "orthodox"???

 

Yeah... the orthodox church draws not from the bible but rather from a large body of information written over the past 2000 years by a group of people referred to as the "holy fathers." Most of the writings of the holy fathers draws directly from the bible, but of the remainder, much is either individual insight or based on oral traditions. They claim a biblical basis for this system of belief, as it says somewhere in the bible (yeah shoot me i don't remember) that if all the works of jesus were written, there would not be enough books in all the world to hold them.

 

therefore, the holy spirit has (sometimes quite literally) been whispering in the ear of various men of faith ever since, clarifying and adding to the bible, to create what they like to call Holy Canon, the point of which is to make sure that no part of the bible whatsoever is open to translation, as all of it has by now been reinterpreted and added to, and massive concepts have been added.

 

ultimately, it bears a lot in common with the jewish system of having (i believe) multiple holy books, building upon each other.

 

they believe the bible is the direct word of god, but too ambiguous to be safely taken by itself, and that we need the further guidance offered by the holy fathers to avoid falling into heresy.

 

All of it is... incredibly convenient. there is absolutely no room for interpretation on any subject, there's an absolute to apply to every situation, and everything quickly becomes as black and white as can be. they don't do a lot of random evangelising in my experience, they only try to get friends and family members, and their friends and family members, etc. also, they claim apostolic succession, believing their practice to be exactly the same as the apostles, and that only they have that absolute truth.

 

i was in it for most of my life. i know what i'm talking about here, at least i think i do.

[Onyx]

3. My priest said "If you see a woman sitting on a street bench, and she has a Bible, well of course she's with God." Meaning that people who truly try to follow God can be Saved. Beit Catholic, Protestant, or Orthodox. It's just that the Orthodox Church has the "fullness" of the faith.

 

In other words, you just proclaimed that your church is the true Church even though you tried to tell everybody that all kinds of Christians are welcome to God's Kingdom. Contradictory, no?

 

Also if you say even unbelievers can be saved after death, then that makes you more of an universalist than an Orthodox Christian.

 

Explain yourself.

[Drifter]

3. My priest said "If you see a woman sitting on a street bench, and she has a Bible, well of course she's with God." Meaning that people who truly try to follow God can be Saved. Beit Catholic, Protestant, or Orthodox. It's just that the Orthodox Church has the "fullness" of the faith.

 

In other words, you just proclaimed that your church is the true Church even though you tried to tell everybody that all kinds of Christians are welcome to God's Kingdom. Contradictory, no?

 

Also if you say even unbelievers can be saved after death, then that makes you more of an universalist than an Orthodox Christian.

 

Explain yourself.

 

Fair enough.

 

The Orthodox believe that the Church is the True Church. I didn't say all kinds of people will go to heaven. I said they can. It's up to God. I don't say who goes where. God can Save people outside the 'Ark' if He wants to.

 

 

I understand that Universalists believe that way, but what I just stated is the Orthodox stance. It is possible for unbelievers to be Saved after death. For instance; you may have people all over the world, in foreign lands, who have never heard of the gospel. The Church does not believe that automatically destines them for hell. Even someone who has heard og the gospel but rejected it does mean they're going to hell. Then again it might. God's the Judge, not man. The way I see it, their overview concerning these things, is "I am way too busy 'working out my own Salvation with fear and trembling' to worry about judging the eternal state of someone elses soul, when it's not even my job to begin with."

[ghostchild]

3. My priest said "If you see a woman sitting on a street bench, and she has a Bible, well of course she's with God." Meaning that people who truly try to follow God can be Saved. Beit Catholic, Protestant, or Orthodox. It's just that the Orthodox Church has the "fullness" of the faith.

 

In other words, you just proclaimed that your church is the true Church even though you tried to tell everybody that all kinds of Christians are welcome to God's Kingdom. Contradictory, no?

 

Also if you say even unbelievers can be saved after death, then that makes you more of an universalist than an Orthodox Christian.

 

Explain yourself.

 

Fair enough.

 

The Orthodox believe that the Church is the True Church. I didn't say all kinds of people will go to heaven. I said they can. It's up to God. I don't say who goes where. God can Save people outside the 'Ark' if He wants to.

 

 

I understand that Universalists believe that way, but what I just stated is the Orthodox stance. It is possible for unbelievers to be Saved after death. For instance; you may have people all over the world, in foreign lands, who have never heard of the gospel. The Church does not believe that automatically destines them for hell. Even someone who has heard og the gospel but rejected it does mean they're going to hell. Then again it might. God's the Judge, not man. The way I see it, their overview concerning these things, is "I am way too busy 'working out my own Salvation with fear and trembling' to worry about judging the eternal state of someone elses soul, when it's not even my job to begin with."

 

so what role does worshipping god and going to church truly play in salvation then?

 

gotta wonder, if you could get to heaven simply by being a good person plain and simple.. you know, love your neighbor... without actually ever setting foot in a church, whether it might be more important and effective to let people know easy-to-understand truths about decency and kindness, rather than attaching morals to a religion.

[mwc]

so what role does worshipping god and going to church truly play in salvation then?

It's called "hedging your bet."

 

mwc

[Deva]

My priest said "If you see a woman sitting on a street bench, and she has a Bible, well of course she's with God." Meaning that people who truly try to follow God can be Saved. Beit Catholic, Protestant, or Orthodox. It's just that the Orthodox Church has the "fullness" of the faith.

 

Thats just a different way of saying all the other churches have it wrong and we are the only true one. But the word "fullness" sounds a little better. All the others are incomplete or in some way in error.

 

At first, I kinda thought it was strange that we couldn't receive the Eucharist. But now, it makes sense to me. When I was Protestant, I believed Holy Communion was symbolic of Christ's Body and Blood, not the real thing. Holy Communion is believed to have alot more power in Orthodoxy than most Protestant churches, because it's not symbolic, it's the real thing; just like Jesus said. And, to receive the Eucharist is not like them sharing a snack with us. It's pledging dedication and alliegence to the Orthodox Church.

 

This is exactly what the Roman Catholic Church would say too. The also believe in the real presence, and so do some Anglicans. "Believed to have a lot more power" sounds like the magical superstition it all really is.

 

I have never heard "God can save anyone" in a Baptist church {ar any Protestant church}. I've always heard, unless you say "this" prayer, you're going to hell. They believe God can manifest Himself to anyone before death, but after death, that's it. The Orthodox believe that even after death, it is possible for an unbeliever to be Saved.

 

I have heard God can save anyone and was raised in the Baptist Church. I have also heard its not for us to judge another's salvation. The only thing I have not heard was that after death it is possible for an unbeliever to be saved. This sounds like some form of purgatory. Is this based on the part in the Bible where Jesus, after his death, went to speak to the spirits in prison?" I can't remember the actual verse.

 

It is true; the Orthodox Church is called "The Ark of Salvation". It is the easiest way to get to heaven {Although there is no breezy easy way}, but God's grace is way bigger than even the Church. God's grace can reach all of humanity, whether Orthodox, heterodox, or unbelieving.

 

Yes, its easy. Just do what the Church tells you, what the priest says, and you are secure for eternity. There is a big appeal in that -- you don't have to think anymore. If God's grace is bigger than the Church, why not just do away with the Church?

 

I would still like to have your thoughts on my earlier question:

 

If you had the realization that your religion was interfering with your ability to love God and other people (as you are commanded to do in the Bible) what would you do?

[florduh]

The Orthodox believe that even after death, it is possible for an unbeliever to be Saved.

Please, could you provide a Biblical basis for that statement?

 

 

I thought I mentioned that this Church isn't a "Bible Only" Church. Everything that is believed doesn't necessarily have be in the Bible.

 

 

Then who makes it up, and what is their authority?

 

To say the dead can be saved isn't a matter of worship style, but of actually setting the rules of salvation itself. I thought God was supposed to do that, not Man.

[Karhoof]

If you ever want to discuss what it's like to lay down suppressive fire for real - with real bullets and real people shooting their real bullets back at you - let me know.

1. What do you do that would cause that? Are you in law enforcement?

Yeah, I know. The words are right there in front of me, but...

 

Did he really just say that ? ! ?

 

Spider, I know you never asked for my opinion, but FWIW, if it were me, I'd just walk away from this "man of the world".

As it is, I'm not sure I'll even visit this thread again.

 

I'ts just gonna be too painful to watch you have to explain every other sentence to him.

[Taphophilia]

My favorite holiday is Halloween. Goin' to Haunted Houses and stuff like. This year I think I may go to a Cemetary as well with some friends. It should be fun. One of the people that may be going {if we can convince her} is really superstitious about those types of things. It'll be fun to see how she'll react. I don't know why I mentioned that. I guess because it's almost October, and I'm looking foward to it.

 

So, how about you?

 

I have been in literally hundreds of cemeteries. (Look up what my username means.)

 

Remember, they close at dusk. It depends on the kind of cemetery you go in to. Burial Parks suck. I don't like them. It also depends on where you live what kind of cemeteries they will have. The older ones with the large tombstones and funerary art are the best. Hopefully, you can find one that's has been kept up. Many times, famous or local artists have art in cemeteries. Often, tombstones have a lot symbolism. If you learn the symbolism the graves will tell you a story.

 

It's also interesting to look up the local history and find the graves of local prominent citizens, who they were, what they did and how they died. It makes treking though cemeteries a lot more interesting and educational than just, "hey, we are in a cemetery". I consider cemeteries more like a museum that, if you know how to interpret them, tells the history of the community they are in.

[Neon Genesis]

I understand that Universalists believe that way, but what I just stated is the Orthodox stance. It is possible for unbelievers to be Saved after death. For instance; you may have people all over the world, in foreign lands, who have never heard of the gospel. The Church does not believe that automatically destines them for hell. Even someone who has heard og the gospel but rejected it does mean they're going to hell. Then again it might. God's the Judge, not man. The way I see it, their overview concerning these things, is "I am way too busy 'working out my own Salvation with fear and trembling' to worry about judging the eternal state of someone elses soul, when it's not even my job to begin with."

Ok, you say that some people may go to hell for not believing in god and it's all up to god to decide, but why should it be moral for any god to send ANY people to any hell simply for not believing in it? I don't go around punishing people who don't believe everything I say. If I did, there would be no end to it and it'd be a pretty silly way to live your life, wouldn't you agree? Doesn't this mean I'm more moral than your god because I don't punish people who don't believe in me simply for not believing in me? I'll give you credit for having slightly more sanitized beliefs than most Christians, but why is any belief in any sort of hell needed to be a Christian?

[Thackerie]

... but why is any belief in any sort of hell needed to be a Christian?

 

Could christianity exist without the concept of hell? What's the point of having a saviour if there's nothing to be saved from? The Jesus myth had to have him be more than a nice guy who talked about the Golden Rule, giving to the poor, etc. because these ideas were around for centuries before he supposedly lived. So, to scare up membership (literally), the founders of christinsanity had to invent a mythical godman to save people from a horrendous fate and their scary stories could not be falsified because that fate was not supposed to occur until after death. What a scam!

[Auracle]

All of it is... incredibly convenient. there is absolutely no room for interpretation on any subject, there's an absolute to apply to every situation, and everything quickly becomes as black and white as can be. they don't do a lot of random evangelising in my experience, they only try to get friends and family members, and their friends and family members, etc. also, they claim apostolic succession, believing their practice to be exactly the same as the apostles, and that only they have that absolute truth.

 

i was in it for most of my life. i know what i'm talking about here, at least i think i do.

 

Ain't it funny, the Roman Catholics say the same thing!

[Spiderwire]

Spider, I know you never asked for my opinion, but FWIW, if it were me, I'd just walk away from this "man of the world".

As it is, I'm not sure I'll even visit this thread again.

 

I'ts just gonna be too painful to watch you have to explain every other sentence to him.

 

I was kinda enjoying being such a dick to him because he's so deserving of it, but when I saw that he was just a pup and pretty fresh out of high school, it wasn't much fun anymore. I have hunting boots in my closet that are older (and far more useful) than he is. It's funny... there are a lot of young folks on this board and when I read their posts, I'm sometimes amazed at how strong and insightful they are and I envy them. I wish I would have been as on the ball as they are when I was their age. So it's not a matter of not taking the remarks of a young person seriously. He's just a smarmy little shit and now #2 on my ignore list since Vigile turned me on to that nifty little feature.

 

And BTW, I may not have asked for your opinion on anything to date, but that's probably because I just go straight to the source and read your posts!

[chefranden]

I understand that Universalists believe that way, but what I just stated is the Orthodox stance. It is possible for unbelievers to be Saved after death. For instance; you may have people all over the world, in foreign lands, who have never heard of the gospel. The Church does not believe that automatically destines them for hell. Even someone who has heard og the gospel but rejected it does mean they're going to hell. Then again it might. God's the Judge, not man. The way I see it, their overview concerning these things, is "I am way too busy 'working out my own Salvation with fear and trembling' to worry about judging the eternal state of someone elses soul, when it's not even my job to begin with."

 

Why should anyone do this if they can go to heaven anyway?

 

How do you know when you have put in enough team effort to make it over the top? You can't be sure you have salvation, so why bother? Eat drink and be merry for tomorrow you may or may not got to hell. It all depends. Better hope you don't die on a day that Yahweh is feeling pissy.

 

Do you think you will still think God the perfect judge after that demon sticks his pitchfork up your ass for the millionth time?

 

 

It sounds like you've put a lot of study into the Orthodox Church. That's commendable. However, it seems like you ought not to chose a denomination until you have studied them all equally. You could be picking the wrong one. Not all that say unto him "Lord Lord" are going to be recognized you know. You should at least study anti-Orthodox views of the Romans before you choose. Getting it wrong could be costly.

 

I think you should stay a Baptist. Would a God who loves you cause you to be born into the wrong denomination? Obviously by reason of birth, Yahweh intended for you to be Baptist. I don't know if Baptist is the right denomination or not, but since God put you there, you ought to stay.

[Drifter]

ghostchild,

 

The Church is the 'Ark of Salvation'. Going to church, taking part in the Eucharist {etc}, is how we "work out our own Salvation". Salvation is hard work. It is acheived by faith and works {above all, the Mercy and Grace of God}. I didn't say that simply by living a good life you'll go to heaven. I said it's up to God. I don't know. No one but Him knows.

 

DevaLight,

 

1. No, it's saying every church may have some truth, but the Orthodox have the "fullness" of the truth.

 

2. Yes, the Catholics do believe that, although I think with some differences. If it's the actaul Body and Blood of Christ, it's bound to be powerful.

 

3. It's not Purgatory. It's just the fact that all things are possible with God. Some people may be ignorant or have never heard of the gospel when they die. Then again, with unbelievers, God may take our prayers for a certain period of their life, and apply it to that time, even after their dead. Nothing at all is impossible for God.

 

4. I assure you, the Orthodox Church is not against thinking. And by the way, they don't believe in 'eternal security'.

 

5. We need the Church because God's grace flows from it. God's grace is in the Church, but nor confined in it.

 

6. Sorry, I forgot to answer your question. Simple answer; I would leave it. Which is one of the reasons I'm leaving Protestant evangelicalism for Orthodoxy.

 

 

 

florduh,

 

The authority is Tradition {such as the Seven Ecumenical Councils}.

 

It is possible for the dead to be Saved after death. I believe God will have Mercy on the ignorant.

 

 

Taphophilia

 

Nice. A couple years ago I was going to Bass Cemetary. But someone trashed it before we got there, and the cops didn't let us go in.

 

 

 

 

Neon Genesis,

 

God doesn't "send" people to hell. In fact, hell is not simply a place, but a state of being. The Saved will enjoy God's loving presence as a nice warmth. The unSaved will experience it as fire.

 

 

Those who find themselved in Hell will be chastized with the scouge of Love. How cruel and bitter this torment of Love will be! The sorrow which takes hold of the heart which has sinned against Love is more piercing than any other pain. St. Isaac of Syria.

 

So, the Saved will eternally enjoy God's Love, and the lost will spend eternity in the presence of a Love that is hated, rejected, and despised.

 

 

This life is preparation for the afterlife. If we have faith and do good works, we may be Saved. For those that don't follow God, they may not be. It's like the Sun. If someone puts on sunscreen, they don't get burnt and they may get a nice tan. If someone doesnt put on any sunscreen, they'll get burnt. Is the Sun doing anything wrong? No. Neither is God. Faith and works in this life is our putting on of the "sunscreen".

[Drifter]

I understand that Universalists believe that way, but what I just stated is the Orthodox stance. It is possible for unbelievers to be Saved after death. For instance; you may have people all over the world, in foreign lands, who have never heard of the gospel. The Church does not believe that automatically destines them for hell. Even someone who has heard og the gospel but rejected it does mean they're going to hell. Then again it might. God's the Judge, not man. The way I see it, their overview concerning these things, is "I am way too busy 'working out my own Salvation with fear and trembling' to worry about judging the eternal state of someone elses soul, when it's not even my job to begin with."

 

Why should anyone do this if they can go to heaven anyway?

 

How do you know when you have put in enough team effort to make it over the top? You can't be sure you have salvation, so why bother? Eat drink and be merry for tomorrow you may or may not got to hell. It all depends. Better hope you don't die on a day that Yahweh is feeling pissy.

 

Do you think you will still think God the perfect judge after that demon sticks his pitchfork up your ass for the millionth time?

 

 

It sounds like you've put a lot of study into the Orthodox Church. That's commendable. However, it seems like you ought not to chose a denomination until you have studied them all equally. You could be picking the wrong one. Not all that say unto him "Lord Lord" are going to be recognized you know. You should at least study anti-Orthodox views of the Romans before you choose. Getting it wrong could be costly.

 

I think you should stay a Baptist. Would a God who loves you cause you to be born into the wrong denomination? Obviously by reason of birth, Yahweh intended for you to be Baptist. I don't know if Baptist is the right denomination or not, but since God put you there, you ought to stay.

 

 

We can't s be certain of our Salvation 100%, beyond the shadow of a doubt. But we can be confident in it.

 

 

One of the reasons I'm choosing Orthodoxy is because it's the oldest. It's more of what the Apostles taught. I was meaning to read the Romans view too. I don't know, though. I don't think I could follow one mere mortal with that kind of power.

 

 

Haha, yes, God loves me even though I was born into the wrong denomination. Look at Abraham; He was born into a different religion entirely {I think it was Abraham}, and God made him the Father of many nations.

[Vigile]

The Church is the 'Ark of Salvation'. Going to church, taking part in the Eucharist {etc}, is how we "work out our own Salvation". Salvation is hard work. It is acheived by faith and works {above all, the Mercy and Grace of God}. I didn't say that simply by living a good life you'll go to heaven. I said it's up to God. I don't know. No one but Him knows.

 

Oh for crying out loud D. Take a step back and look at the big picture here. Do you still REALLY buy into these old myths developed during the Bronze Age? What makes this any different from rituals of dancing around the campfire? Of self mutilation? Who told you that you need salvation from anything in the first place? Why are all the other religions wrong and your's is right?

 

I know. You have a gut feeling.

 

Fortunately the world of science doesn't depend on gut feelings. If it did doctors would still be exorcizing evil spirits from schizophrenics, public courts would still be burning witches at the stake and we would all be participating in blood sacrifice.

 

I suggest you go to school and educate yourself. Your system of belief is really quite laughable in the context of modern knowledge of which you are currently willfully ignorant.

[chefranden]

One of the reasons I'm choosing Orthodoxy is because it's the oldest. It's more of what the Apostles taught. I was meaning to read the Romans view too. I don't know, though. I don't think I could follow one mere mortal with that kind of power.

 

Sigh, No it's not. You'd better study Catholicism if that's your reason. They have a different view of the Great Schism. And don't forget the Coptics (Acts 8:26-40) The Orthodox say they are the oldest, the original, but so do many others.