Guest end3 Posted January 20, 2009 Share Posted January 20, 2009 And you have some reason to believe I am fulfilled outside of Christ? Since humanity is empty, then your point is empty. So why should I care? Who mentioned caring? The point is, the "search" for relevence points directly to a state of non-full. You inparticular search knowledge to find fulfillment, no? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ouroboros Posted January 20, 2009 Share Posted January 20, 2009 And you have some reason to believe I am fulfilled outside of Christ? Since humanity is empty, then your point is empty. So why should I care? Who mentioned caring? The point is, the "search" for relevence points directly to a state of non-full. You inparticular search knowledge to find fulfillment, no? Ok. We're hungry for knowledge. We're not empty though. We have something. Humans aren't empty, but they're not full. The knowledge of the universe is infinite, so we'll never be full--we can't be. Only a being who is hungry for something new will actually do something. Progress is driven by desire. And the hunger is something which is within us, so we do have something, we're not completely empty. If we all were just empty, then everything you say must be based on empty knowledge, and hence it has no meaning to anyone of us. But you see, we all do have something, so "empty" is the wrong word. We're half-full, half-empty, but never full, and we're never completely empty either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taphophilia Posted January 20, 2009 Share Posted January 20, 2009 If you think humanity is empty than you don't know how to be human. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest end3 Posted January 20, 2009 Share Posted January 20, 2009 You have to fulfill yourself! No one else can do it for you! Last time I read the bible, according to the story, Jesus bought your salvation from hell for when you DIE...WHERE does it say he takes the responsibility for making your LIFE worth something? Your DEATH is "fulfilled" based on this. Your LIFE is still yours to fill. Jeez End3!!! You are a hoot, gal.....No, see, I searched in church and out of church and have found an uniform incompleteness, only dotted with glimpses of fulfillment; although your concept is admirable, I don't think it possible before death. You would be a Jesus Stalker if he were real! That is a creepy kind of relationship that NO ONE wants!!! No one wants to be someone else's EVERYTHING!!! And in the case of your supreme being...what would be the POINT? What does he get out of it? Your obsessive all consuming love? That's just great. Makes putting you on earth a pretty pointless action then. My glimpes of fulfillment inspired by my presence on earth are mostly rejected by the "normal" population. Am I whining...a touch. The point is, the population is of believers and non-believers, so I rest my case. Are we fulfilled by convincing ourselves there is fulfillment in ourselves through ourselves. Would the man build the toilet stall if the woman was not there. Hell no...what good are we by ourselves, what is the point of us residing together as opposed to being a single individual on earth. Certainly God could have put us one person per planet if He should have wanted. I don't know why I'm bothering with this really...except you specifically asked me to by PM. Because none of your thought processes indicate that you will assess the analogy I just put down accurately at all, or that you will even understand it. So what is it you want from me End3? A Christmas card each year would be nice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest end3 Posted January 20, 2009 Share Posted January 20, 2009 If you think humanity is empty than you don't know how to be human. Amen and amen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MathGeek Posted January 20, 2009 Share Posted January 20, 2009 If you think humanity is empty than you don't know how to be human. Amen and amen Since you exist End3, you are not empty. Quot Erat Demonstrandum Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chefranden Posted January 20, 2009 Share Posted January 20, 2009 Hey End, I just re-read the whole thread hoping to find something to comment on, but truly and really I have little idea where you are coming from and or where you are going with this. My best guess is that you are relating the status of your own feelings, "I feel empty," and then go on to insist that this is the feeling status of everyone. This is not the case. It is a difficult thing for a Christian to learn to live in the present. Christians are taught often from birth that the present is crap and that the only good space/time to be is the distant future. The problem with that is that a human only gets to live in the present. If you can't find fullness now, you never will. This is because now is all you have, even if you are in heaven. You indicate, suggest, intimate, hint, propose, and nominate Jesus as fulfilling. But you don't seem very convinced. You have Jesus. You have faith in Jesus, yet you are still empty aren't you? If I read you aright, I have great sympathy for you, because I've been there and done that. This unfulfilled promise is a major source of your anger. You are angry with us because we have discovered that Jesus isn't going to come across with filling. He can't because he is not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
upstarter Posted January 20, 2009 Share Posted January 20, 2009 I refuse to jump into the fray with end3 or any other believer. But I just wanted to comment that this video is so good, and so concise and reaches some very important conclusions, that I think this thread should be pinned. Many many new deconverts and struggling believers who come here would benefit from watching that little video. Heather Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
agnosticator Posted January 20, 2009 Share Posted January 20, 2009 End3, Do you agree with what HanSolo posted on this page? I have a similar analogy. We eat food when we are hungry, become full, only to later become hungry again. We can never be full all the time, nor empty all the time. So we are neither continually empty nor full. But we enjoy eating because it is satisfying and enjoyable (though temporary). All things in our life experiences are like this. We who understand this, enjoy life's pleasures and the variety of available experiences on our planet . We have within our nature curiosity and the yearning for more. This is not emptiness. My advice to you is to look forward to the things life offers, and when it seems incomplete, find something else to do, learn, or yearn for. You can never be fully satisfied, but you can enjoy the ride instead of your imaginary destination of complete fulfillment or satisfaction. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Justin Posted January 21, 2009 Share Posted January 21, 2009 End, one of the few things about humanity that is empty is that humanity created gods and deities and religion and dooped some into joining these brainwashing cults. But that is slowly changing over time thankfully, so all is not lost and the outlook is bright. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
white_raven23 Posted January 21, 2009 Share Posted January 21, 2009 I refuse to jump into the fray with end3 or any other believer. But I just wanted to comment that this video is so good, and so concise and reaches some very important conclusions, that I think this thread should be pinned. Many many new deconverts and struggling believers who come here would benefit from watching that little video. Heather Whew. Glad I saw this post before going freaking Postal. I agree about the video, but can we possibly carve off what I will diplomatically call the End3 mindfart and attach all those posts to a created thread for it down in the regular section? The idea that a thread he's troll-jacked and taken out to lala land being pinned.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest end3 Posted January 21, 2009 Share Posted January 21, 2009 Hey End, I just re-read the whole thread hoping to find something to comment on, but truly and really I have little idea where you are coming from and or where you are going with this. My best guess is that you are relating the status of your own feelings, "I feel empty," and then go on to insist that this is the feeling status of everyone. This is not the case. It is a difficult thing for a Christian to learn to live in the present. Christians are taught often from birth that the present is crap and that the only good space/time to be is the distant future. The problem with that is that a human only gets to live in the present. If you can't find fullness now, you never will. This is because now is all you have, even if you are in heaven. You indicate, suggest, intimate, hint, propose, and nominate Jesus as fulfilling. But you don't seem very convinced. You have Jesus. You have faith in Jesus, yet you are still empty aren't you? If I read you aright, I have great sympathy for you, because I've been there and done that. This unfulfilled promise is a major source of your anger. You are angry with us because we have discovered that Jesus isn't going to come across with filling. He can't because he is not. I appreciate the comments, but it doesn't change my mind. I think all of us have experienced what I am describing. My take on God is one of occasional revelation by the Holy Spirit. As I own my own reality, then I can only summize a greater existance, a filled existance, because, mind you, it would make sense that if there is an unfilled, then there is a filled. Choosing to accept mediocrity is unbecoming of the spirit y'all profess... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest end3 Posted January 21, 2009 Share Posted January 21, 2009 And you have some reason to believe I am fulfilled outside of Christ? Since humanity is empty, then your point is empty. So why should I care? Who mentioned caring? The point is, the "search" for relevence points directly to a state of non-full. You inparticular search knowledge to find fulfillment, no? Ok. We're hungry for knowledge. We're not empty though. We have something. Humans aren't empty, but they're not full. The knowledge of the universe is infinite, so we'll never be full--we can't be. Only a being who is hungry for something new will actually do something. Progress is driven by desire. And the hunger is something which is within us, so we do have something, we're not completely empty. If we all were just empty, then everything you say must be based on empty knowledge, and hence it has no meaning to anyone of us. But you see, we all do have something, so "empty" is the wrong word. We're half-full, half-empty, but never full, and we're never completely empty either. Listen to your explanation and tell me that you hold the answers you profess. I would take time to pick apart you statement, but I know you can do better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest end3 Posted January 21, 2009 Share Posted January 21, 2009 I refuse to jump into the fray with end3 or any other believer. But I just wanted to comment that this video is so good, and so concise and reaches some very important conclusions, that I think this thread should be pinned. Many many new deconverts and struggling believers who come here would benefit from watching that little video. Heather Whew. Glad I saw this post before going freaking Postal. I agree about the video, but can we possibly carve off what I will diplomatically call the End3 mindfart and attach all those posts to a created thread for it down in the regular section? The idea that a thread he's troll-jacked and taken out to lala land being pinned.... WR, dearest hot babe, It was not my decision nor my request to pin my depression. Two votes for taking the shit down. Troll-jacked? This thread was locked at some dismal number of posts, the summation of which being described as mutual masterbation... Gheez woman. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ouroboros Posted January 21, 2009 Share Posted January 21, 2009 Ok. We're hungry for knowledge. We're not empty though. We have something. Humans aren't empty, but they're not full. The knowledge of the universe is infinite, so we'll never be full--we can't be. Only a being who is hungry for something new will actually do something. Progress is driven by desire. And the hunger is something which is within us, so we do have something, we're not completely empty. If we all were just empty, then everything you say must be based on empty knowledge, and hence it has no meaning to anyone of us. But you see, we all do have something, so "empty" is the wrong word. We're half-full, half-empty, but never full, and we're never completely empty either. Listen to your explanation and tell me that you hold the answers you profess. I would take time to pick apart you statement, but I know you can do better. Bah. Don't think so. You can't, that's why you don't. Your claim that humanity is empty is utterly wrong. And do I profess that humanity is non-empty, you bet your silly religion I do. Just because, if humanity is in totality empty, your religion, and you, are also empty, which means your religious beliefs are empty, and so on... but I know, it's a bit over your head. Unfortunately I can't dumb it down any more than that. It would become pre-school level if I did, and you should be old enough to do better yourself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest end3 Posted January 21, 2009 Share Posted January 21, 2009 We're hungry for knowledge. We're not empty though. We're hungry for booze, drugs, sex, sports, etc, whatever that we find that will possibly fill our emptiness. We have something. Humans aren't empty, but they're not full. We have what is given to us at birth, which is damn near empty, yet perfect, before the filling process begins. The knowledge of the universe is infinite, so we'll never be full--we can't be. What an arrogant presumption. Only a being who is hungry for something new will actually do something. Progress is driven by desire. And the hunger is something which is within us, so we do have something, we're not completely empty. This friend, is pure conjecture on your part. It could well be explained otherwise. If we all were just empty, then everything you say must be based on empty knowledge, and hence it has no meaning to anyone of us. But you see, we all do have something, so "empty" is the wrong word. We're half-full, half-empty, but never full, and we're never completely empty either. The statement was humanity in itself is empty....think about it before answering again. And you are just pissed that you have nothing in your knowledge base to refute this.....makes you feel uncomfortable about your choice and the place and stance you are trying to justify. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kuroikaze Posted January 21, 2009 Share Posted January 21, 2009 What an arrogant presumption. Says the one who believes the creator of the universe takes a special interest in him The statement was humanity in itself is empty....think about it before answering again. And you are just pissed that you have nothing in your knowledge base to refute this.....makes you feel uncomfortable about your choice and the place and stance you are trying to justify. Instead of getting defensive why don't you properly define what you mean by "empty." Perhaps metaphor is not the best language in which to address this discussion. I for one, would be interested in knowing what you actually mean by the statement "humanity in itself is empty." I'd rather have you explain instead of having people keep guessing and you just saying "no that's not what I meant." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trike Posted January 21, 2009 Share Posted January 21, 2009 I appreciate the comments, but it doesn't change my mind. I think all of us have experienced what I am describing. Aye, I have felt that way before, when I was in the Church and was constantly hit over the head with the mantra, "You are scum, a lowly worm, a horrible human being capable of awful crimes..." But then I looked around and started talking to others who hadn't had this constant brainwashing, and while nobody was perfect or had a perfect life they were much more fulfilled than me. After all, I didn't even know who I was apart from what others (who didn't know me well) told me I was! I was the empty one. I had jumped wholeheartedly into church, youth group, leading Bible studies, studying apologetics and all those others things as a way to try to fill myself. I was always empty though, no matter what I did for the lord. I still see that in many who are active in the churches I sometimes visit, they do so much to get a short temporary psychological payback and then wake up tomorrow searching for the next spiritual high and hoping that this one lasts. End, who are you? Apart from all this "worthless sinner" bull. That might help you realize that your yourself and humanity isn't empty. What causes you wake up every morning or to roll back into bed? What gives you belly laughs? What do you daydream about? Knowing yourself is the first step to liking yourself and having a more positive outlook on the world. [Although I do find it ironic that a rather unhappy Christian is trying to convince me of how much I need Christianity in order to be fulfilled when I am quite content and well-off] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ouroboros Posted January 21, 2009 Share Posted January 21, 2009 We're hungry for booze, drugs, sex, sports, etc, whatever that we find that will possibly fill our emptiness. You say empty, I say hungry. An empty stomach is actually not completely empty. There's at least acid in it. We have what is given to us at birth, which is damn near empty, yet perfect, before the filling process begins. You don't have to be empty to fill up. You say half-empty, I say half-full. The knowledge of the universe is infinite, so we'll never be full--we can't be. What an arrogant presumption. Blah, blah, blah... Only a being who is hungry for something new will actually do something. Progress is driven by desire. And the hunger is something which is within us, so we do have something, we're not completely empty. This friend, is pure conjecture on your part. It could well be explained otherwise. Not at all, but you wouldn't understand... which you keep on proving. If we all were just empty, then everything you say must be based on empty knowledge, and hence it has no meaning to anyone of us. But you see, we all do have something, so "empty" is the wrong word. We're half-full, half-empty, but never full, and we're never completely empty either. The statement was humanity in itself is empty....think about it before answering again. Are you human? Are you part of humanity? Ah, I see, you're an alien. That's why you don't count yourself in the empty group? You're empty. You ideas are empty. Nothing of value. And you are just pissed that you have nothing in your knowledge base to refute this.....makes you feel uncomfortable about your choice and the place and stance you are trying to justify. Refute? You made a statement. I refuted it by explaining that we're not empty. And then you're blabbering away, trying to sound clever... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ouroboros Posted January 21, 2009 Share Posted January 21, 2009 I for one, would be interested in knowing what you actually mean by the statement "humanity in itself is empty." I'd rather have you explain instead of having people keep guessing and you just saying "no that's not what I meant." What he really means isn't that humanity is empty, but humans are hungry for knowledge, pleasures, fullfillments, etc. If we all are empty, then where do I get fulfillment for my hunger of knowledge and pleasure? If I'm empty on knowledge, and everyone else is empty for knowledge, that means no one can fill up on knowledge anywhere. And if he claims Jesus is the answer, then the problem is that a statement like that is based on empty knowledge too. No one can fee anyone anything, since we all are empty and have nothing. So I still claim, we are not empty, but it doesn't mean we're full either. Poor End3, he probably hate me now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
white_raven23 Posted January 21, 2009 Share Posted January 21, 2009 I refuse to jump into the fray with end3 or any other believer. But I just wanted to comment that this video is so good, and so concise and reaches some very important conclusions, that I think this thread should be pinned. Many many new deconverts and struggling believers who come here would benefit from watching that little video. Heather Whew. Glad I saw this post before going freaking Postal. I agree about the video, but can we possibly carve off what I will diplomatically call the End3 mindfart and attach all those posts to a created thread for it down in the regular section? The idea that a thread he's troll-jacked and taken out to lala land being pinned.... WR, dearest hot babe, It was not my decision nor my request to pin my depression. Two votes for taking the shit down. Troll-jacked? This thread was locked at some dismal number of posts, the summation of which being described as mutual masterbation... Gheez woman. I know that End3. I do think the thread deserves pinning based entirely on the OP content. I don't think our hashing over your depression needs to be part of it, and I'm pretty sure they could split that content into a separate thread. This stuff shouldn't upstage the OP. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ouroboros Posted January 21, 2009 Share Posted January 21, 2009 I don't think our hashing over your depression needs to be part of it, and I'm pretty sure they could split that content into a separate thread. This stuff shouldn't upstage the OP. It would take a while, but it can be done. I'll see what I can do later today. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
agnosticator Posted January 24, 2009 Share Posted January 24, 2009 Why do end3's posts seem to be written as if he were in a foggy, hazy state of mind, and what he says makes sense only to himself? Maybe he partook of too many recreational drugs in his youth?? Besides, he never answers any of my posts.....maybe that's a good thing? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Antlerman Posted January 24, 2009 Share Posted January 24, 2009 I refuse to jump into the fray with end3 or any other believer. But I just wanted to comment that this video is so good, and so concise and reaches some very important conclusions, that I think this thread should be pinned. Many many new deconverts and struggling believers who come here would benefit from watching that little video. Heather Done. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Antlerman Posted January 24, 2009 Share Posted January 24, 2009 Why do end3's posts seem to be written as if he were in a foggy, hazy state of mind, and what he says makes sense only to himself? Maybe he partook of too many recreational drugs in his youth?? Besides, he never answers any of my posts.....maybe that's a good thing? My personal take is self medication because of being caught in a place that is not to his own liking. But alas, what do I know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts