Hell: An Excessive Punishment

[agnosticator]

END3,

 

It's not about what we FEEL, but what the bible says:

 

http://www.carm.org/questions/election.htm

This is from a christian site with n.t. texts on predestinatin and election. The bible presents all views pro and con.

 

All of us here have made the choice you mention in your last post. We found that the biblegod is not god, and see the bible as very human. It is written by people who believed they knew what they were talking about, and that they could speak for god. However, if god is a mystery, god would be unknowable.

 

I'm not whining, but merely pointing out what the bible says.

[Guest end3]

No one answered the question I asked before.....seems everyone is feeling sorry for themselves, reason being they are the ones God is predestining to hell. For one, are you aware of predestination?????????, and if so, fill us all in, objectively!!!! An occasional Holy Spirit intervention to guide me but no awareness of a predestined outcome from the Big Man. So yeah, it is a choice for one to ask God for His presence in your lives unless you are miraculously aware that you are predestined one way or the other.

 

Have you been here so long and still don't get it? We don't believe hell or god are real, what we are objecting to is not reality but a concept that traditional Christianity CLAIMS is reality. We are trying to point out that this concept makes no logical or moral sense. I would think this would be fairly obvious by now.

 

Somehow it is still viable that you are not a part of the believing, but then crap on faith? Wake up....and please refrain from the onslaught of whining. Stupid argument anyway, and walking willingly blind on your part.

 

Oh please.... who is whining here?

 

You confuse me end3, sometimes you seem to be a totally reasonable human being and other times you seem like just another fundamentalist asshole who enjoys being a jerk and making light of our experiences.

 

Taph, your previous statements are not accurate. The bible says repent of evil.

 

The bible says a lot of things....a lot of them make no sense, many of them contradict one another, and all of them were written by men who lived 2000+ years ago and had a very different concept of "evil" than I do.

 

I'm sure we have been down this road before end, but just to remind you.

Genocide, Slavery, Concubinage (sexual slavery), Polygamy, and Pedophilia are all given direct or indirect approval by the god of the bible. To the writers of that book REAL evil was not giving god his due. The hell with how you treat other people, if they were women or from another country they weren't worth spiting on if they were on fire.

 

That may not be the god YOU worship but it IS the god of the bible.

 

I'll say this again, you are far more moral than the bible god, you just don't realize it.

 

I am not making light of anyone's experience.......it is the point that some get so intrenched (sp)? in canned arguments and stereotyping "dumb" Christians.

 

Again, how can you lament not being "one of the chosen" when you have decided to be an unbeliever? ......."Not my choice not to believe, whine, whine, it's the evil bastard Christian God and those evil people" Again, where is the proof of predestination, and how do you know God was not planning to "use" you later in you life in a significant manner?

 

Give me a honest, not the typical "I don't believe in God, so it doesn't apply" answer and I will quit being an ass. You people have more brainz than what you are currenly showing unless the zombies have attacked.

[white_raven23]

No one answered the question I asked before.....seems everyone is feeling sorry for themselves, reason being they are the ones God is predestining to hell.

 

Where do you come up with your suppositions End3? I mean....you extrapolate about others well beyond what one could reasonably assume with the evidence given.

 

I would sooner assume, no one answered your question, because no one was particularly interested enough in the topic to do so. I sure as hell wasn't interested. Nothing personal or malicious in that, you can't make people be interested in the same things you find interesting. It's happened to all of us at one time or other. We start a thread...and no one is interested in it enough to contribute.

 

The DIFFERENCE however.....most of us just say "Damn, oh well" and go on to other things. But there are always those people who just get huffy and pissy when their every word is not attended to as though it came from on high. And they ascribe negative assumptions on others who have done nothing more horrible than just not being interested.

 

For one, are you aware of predestination?????????, and if so, fill us all in, objectively!!!! An occasional Holy Spirit intervention to guide me but no awareness of a predestined outcome from the Big Man. So yeah, it is a choice for one to ask God for His presence in your lives unless you are miraculously aware that you are predestined one way or the other. Somehow it is still viable that you are not a part of the believing, but then crap on faith? Wake up....and please refrain from the onslaught of whining. Stupid argument anyway, and walking willingly blind on your part.

 

See? You clearly fall into the huffy pissy category simply because no one cares to answer you. As for your question, it's hardly one worth getting so acidic over. As far as I can tell, there is a sort of "predestiny" in our lives, but it has nothing to do with any sort of supernatural being. I was genetically "predetermined" you could say...to have hazel eyes and brown hair. Some people have certain misfortunes "predestined" to them by way of their heredity. They have Down's Syndrome, they were born blind, some were born without the ability to create their own gamma globulin and must have regular infusions rendered down from donated blood or they don't have an immune system to speak of (I know someone who had that card dealt to him).

 

Regardless of how you've been "predestined", you STILL have to play your life with the hand you are dealt, though you are not limited to just those cards. You pick up more on the way...or you don't. You bitch about the hand you were dealt...or you don't. You get on with living your life...or you don't. And that is really why your question is actually pretty damned uninteresting. Because how we GOT the cards we have is irrelevant and mundane compared to what we decide to DO with them. And that leaves "predestiny" behind and in the dust in comparison.

[Kuroikaze]

I am not making light of anyone's experience.......it is the point that some get so intrenched (sp)? in canned arguments and stereotyping "dumb" Christians.

 

Again, how can you lament not being "one of the chosen" when you have decided to be an unbeliever? ......."Not my choice not to believe, whine, whine, it's the evil bastard Christian God and those evil people" Again, where is the proof of predestination, and how do you know God was not planning to "use" you later in you life in a significant manner?

 

Give me a honest, not the typical "I don't believe in God, so it doesn't apply" answer and I will quit being an ass. You people have more brainz than what you are currenly showing unless the zombies have attacked.

 

 

Again....who is whining here? Listen to yourself and tell me you aren't whining? It sure sounds like it to me. Is anyone here blaming god for anything? I don't think we are. You just choose to interpret it that way because it is convenient to you.

 

I'm not really even sure what your question is. "I don't believe in God" IS an honest answer, unless you are suggesting that I "really" believe in god but I'm just pretending I don't or something lame like that.

 

I'm not lamenting anything, I'm happy with my life. Why do you think we are lamenting something? Why would I try to prove predestination when I don't believe in predestination?

 

There are plenty of bible passages which support it, and others that don't, because the bible is not a consistent book, but why do I care what the bible says? Its not like I think the bible is always right or something, that is your department.

 

Now, if you are talking psychologically and not theologically then I would say that in sense I did not choose to stop believing. In the sense that no one really "chooses" what they believe. psychologically speaking beliefs are not a choice but the result of the cognitive process. I believe X because a mixture of the information available to me, the cognitive process of my mind, and my emotional state lead me to accept claim X as true. So it would be wrong to say that I choose to believe or not believe in god in the traditional use of that word. In the same sense that I could not suddenly "choose" to believe in unicorns or bigfoot. Does this make any sense to you?

 

just being an insulting ass will cause me to be one in turn, if you want a rational conversation try being rational for yourself.

[chefranden]

Sometimes I cook and it tastes like crap....I toss it to the dogs or it lands in food hell (the garbage).

 

Ah, then you admit that God creates crap.

 

If I am bound for hell, then it is God that made me so.

 

Did you know that if you made a broth that is too salty, you can cook a couple of potatoes in it and they will adsorb some of the salt? Then you just throw the taters away instead of the broth. So then, in light of your food theology, would Jesus be a potato tossed into the crappy too salty broth made by God?

[chefranden]

I don't know that it is impossible for God to have created something that went astray, i.e. the devil. So I assume it is possible that humans might go astray. As in the example, sure, I created the cooking, but the oven (another of my creations) burned the damn stuff.

 

It wouldn't be impossible for God to create something that can go astray, but he would have to do it deliberately. Therefore he's got no legitimate bitch when something goes astray. Now I sometimes get mad at something I screwed up, but I'm just a pissy human. God is thought to have better self control, even though in the bible God is pretty much like a giant pissy human.

 

I think of him something like Great Drunk Daddy in the sky. Drunk Daddy comes home and beats the wife and kids, and kicks the dog. But of course the fault belongs to the wife, kids, and dog. Drunk Daddy is never responsible. The Church is the Great Dysfunctional Family of Drunk Daddy in the Sky.

 

But don't be too hard on Yahweh. All the gods are like this. Ya they are. All of them have gotten drunk and gone astray.

[chefranden]

1. Pondering this for only moments of my existance today, whose choice is it to remain separate from the parent? In the case of God, I am thinking that God has made a way for his children to be with him. So again, is it his choice or ours?

 

2. As no one seems to have a clear definition of what hell is, how can we know if separation from him is not like "eternal damnation" or "a lake of fire" or "hell" or whatever.

 

3. Typically in life, I have witnessed children making the decision not to talk to their parents for an extended period of time, not the other way around.

 

1. I assume this is the question not answered so I'll give it a stab.

 

From my experience it is God that chooses to remain separate. Seriously, I've never seen God around even when I was begging God to be around. Remember when Thomas doubted and God stopped by to prove himself? Well God has never stopped by my place, and I can't reach his place. So if he's real then God is the one who has chosen to be separate from me. Of course God is not real so God cannot be absent from me, nor I from him.

 

2. If you believe that God is omnipresent as you should, then you can't help but shit on him. You just can't be separated from something that is everywhere. You couldn't get away if you crawled up your own asshole, cause God is in there too -- the bible says so. He even messes around in your mamma's hoo-hoo. If God is not somewhere, like hell, then God is not omnipresent. Now if you mess with God's Omnimaxness all you have left is some comic book hero like Thor. Therefore hell couldn't be separation from God, if God were real, which God is not.

 

3. Insufficient data. I don't trust your sample.

[Vigile]

Yet another good thread derailed by End3 and his mindless incoherent intrusions. :angry:

 

Why do you guys feed this guy?

[MathGeek]

Give me a honest, not the typical "I don't believe in God, so it doesn't apply" answer and I will quit being an ass. You people have more brainz than what you are currenly showing unless the zombies have attacked.

 

Hell is an abstract concept and it appears in the Bible 162 times according to what I've heard. The idea of hell is a contradiction since two seperate concept appear in the bible: sheol in the Old Testament and the Lake of Fire in the New Testament. Since their is no unifying agreement on this point within the pages itself, the concept of Hell as being biblical should be rejected as should the idea of biblical inerrancy. As a Christian, I really had no interest in reading the Bible and neither do I have an interest now. What I do know is partially my own studies and what I've read from other books.

 

 

Yet another good thread derailed by End3 and his mindless incoherent intrusions. :angry:

 

Why do you guys feed this guy?

 

Because he's a good Christian and we can't let him fail in his mission.

[Guest end3]

I am not making light of anyone's experience.......it is the point that some get so intrenched (sp)? in canned arguments and stereotyping "dumb" Christians.

 

Again, how can you lament not being "one of the chosen" when you have decided to be an unbeliever? ......."Not my choice not to believe, whine, whine, it's the evil bastard Christian God and those evil people" Again, where is the proof of predestination, and how do you know God was not planning to "use" you later in you life in a significant manner?

 

Give me a honest, not the typical "I don't believe in God, so it doesn't apply" answer and I will quit being an ass. You people have more brainz than what you are currenly showing unless the zombies have attacked.

 

 

Again....who is whining here? Listen to yourself and tell me you aren't whining? It sure sounds like it to me. Is anyone here blaming god for anything? I don't think we are. You just choose to interpret it that way because it is convenient to you.

 

I'm not really even sure what your question is. "I don't believe in God" IS an honest answer, unless you are suggesting that I "really" believe in god but I'm just pretending I don't or something lame like that.

 

I'm not lamenting anything, I'm happy with my life. Why do you think we are lamenting something? Why would I try to prove predestination when I don't believe in predestination?

 

There are plenty of bible passages which support it, and others that don't, because the bible is not a consistent book, but why do I care what the bible says? Its not like I think the bible is always right or something, that is your department.

 

Now, if you are talking psychologically and not theologically then I would say that in sense I did not choose to stop believing. In the sense that no one really "chooses" what they believe. psychologically speaking beliefs are not a choice but the result of the cognitive process. I believe X because a mixture of the information available to me, the cognitive process of my mind, and my emotional state lead me to accept claim X as true. So it would be wrong to say that I choose to believe or not believe in god in the traditional use of that word. In the same sense that I could not suddenly "choose" to believe in unicorns or bigfoot. Does this make any sense to you?

 

just being an insulting ass will cause me to be one in turn, if you want a rational conversation try being rational for yourself.

 

Wasn't aimed at you K, just the normal bunch who have to continually "smack down them Christians" and the like. And those truly enlightened like Vigile, who graduated magna cum laude from UofP (University of Prick)...online campus.

[Trike]

Alright, so I'm a johnny-come-lately to the topic. I loved the video. When I was taking Koine Greek many semesters ago it shocked me that no New Testament writer used the word "hell"...Jesus used Gehenna a lot and Paul refers to Tartarus, but there is never any mention of hell. We were instructed to translate these words as "Hell" even though Tartarus, Sheol and Gehenna are not what modern Christians conceive of as Hell. Sheol meant either a sleep, or in some Jewish though, something akin to the Underworld Odysseus visits in the Odyssey or the House of Dust in the Epic of Gilgamesh. Gehenna, as the video points out, is a garbage dump where refuse was incinerated. It was surely stinky and hot but it is not the modern picture of hell. The description of Tartarus varies throughout Greco-Roman times, but the picture presented by Virgil in the first century is a place in the Underworld reserved for the very worst people (following more Greek taboos like killing your own kin, incest, cannibalism, etc) not the everyday doubters, thieves or other inhabitants of the Underworld.

 

Most modern translations though keep using the word hell when the text says something quite different. Translators justify this by tradition or saying that "that is what the author meant". I disagree, if the author meant something other than Tartarus, Hades or Gehenna they could have very well invented a new word and concept. After all, the scriptures invented new concepts such as original sin, everlasting atonement, etc, etc all expanding on common themes of the day.

 

So why didn't the authors?

 

Quite simple, hell was a later invention.

[SWIM]

Do any of you feel predestined for hell? Obviously so....give me a break

 

ROFLMAO!! You CANNOT feel predestined for a place you do not believe even exists...

 

DOH!

[nightflight]

Again, how can you lament not being "one of the chosen" when you have decided to be an unbeliever? ......."Not my choice not to believe, whine, whine, it's the evil bastard Christian God and those evil people" Again, where is the proof of predestination, and how do you know God was not planning to "use" you later in you life in a significant manner?

 

What is lamented is that such beliefs are called "good". Christians such as yourself will criticize Islamic doctrines without believing such doctrines are true.

[SWIM]

Again, how can you lament not being "one of the chosen" when you have decided to be an unbeliever? ......."Not my choice not to believe, whine, whine, it's the evil bastard Christian God and those evil people" Again, where is the proof of predestination, and how do you know God was not planning to "use" you later in you life in a significant manner?

 

Give me a honest, not the typical "I don't believe in God, so it doesn't apply" answer and I will quit being an ass. You people have more brainz than what you are currenly showing unless the zombies have attacked.

 

Wasn't aimed at you K, just the normal bunch who have to continually "smack down them Christians" and the like. And those truly enlightened like Vigile, who graduated magna cum laude from UofP (University of Prick)...online campus.

 

OH I get it, aimed at me eh? I do not lament not being chosen because I don't believe in god. So I guess you can keep on being a retarded asshole. God is not using me or you because he does not exist. I cannot give you an answer honest or otherwise, when the QUESTION is based on an assumption of belief.

 

You must really enjoy belittlement and self humiliation. You are about the biggest braindead idiot on this board. Thats not an insult either, its a logical observation.

[HelloWorld]

You are about the biggest braindead idiot on this board. Thats not an insult either, its a logical observation.

 

I have not contributed a post to this topic, but I have been following it. I agree that there have been some Christians on the board who are indeed idiots. However, I find that labels like "biggest braindead idiot" are thrown around a little too often. Based on what I have read, I would not call end3 a braindead idiot. Certainly, he has made some illogical conclusions and and unfair comments, but I hardly think that puts him in the category of braindead idiot. All of us make errors at some point, and what we say is coloured by how we see things. Things that seem very logically straight forward to us might not be as straight forward to Christians because they have not thought about things in the way we have.

 

I understand that sometimes people are hurt or offended by the comments that Christians make here. I don't deny that I have not been angered by some of the ignorant and silly things they have posted. I don't believe, though, that accusing these people of being "braindead idiots" or the like is the best way to maintain any kind of constructive discussion. We might say, "This is our turf, we don't need input from Christians, we don't owe them any justification for our beliefs etc" and we would be correct. But I think it would be good if the ignorant people who show up here don't leave with any preconceived ideas about exChristians being rude, immoral, angry etc. confirmed by such name calling.........

 

....even if the name fits.

 

Sorry if I am out of line by saying this, but it has been bothering me for a few weeks.

[Guest end3]

Do any of you feel predestined for hell? Obviously so....give me a break

 

ROFLMAO!! You CANNOT feel predestined for a place you do not believe even exists...

 

DOH!

 

Seriously SWIM,

 

Do I need to visit the testamonies section to find the specific phrasing for the numerous "Why doesn't God talk to me?" stories. If you can't read the emotion in those words then perhaps you might be the biggest braindead idiot on board.....hard to work up that much emotion when you don't believe in something. Oh, unless you smoke dope SWIM. And yes, you are the first to reply "I don't believe in God so it doesn't apply" phrase as I anticipated. Real good SWIM.....perhaps you have been smoking too much lately.

[Trike]

Seriously SWIM,

 

Do I need to visit the testamonies section to find the specific phrasing for the numerous "Why doesn't God talk to me?" stories. If you can't read the emotion in those words then perhaps you might be the biggest braindead idiot on board.....hard to work up that much emotion when you don't believe in something. Oh, unless you smoke dope SWIM. And yes, you are the first to reply "I don't believe in God so it doesn't apply" phrase as I anticipated. Real good SWIM.....perhaps you have been smoking too much lately.

 

The hell...? Most of the things I read on the Testimony page are along the lines of "God didn't talk to me when I was a believer" (please note the use of the past tense) and "I would be a believer again if God were to talk to me" (asking for proof, quite a logical prerequisite for believing something exists). Now, I see no instance where someone on here is whining because a deity they don't believe in isn't talking to them! Quite the opposite.

 

And may I point out that the "Testimony" section is of course often reeking of emotion. Surely even you can understand that leaving the religion of your youth is a hard process and is often filled with pain. And many who leave their stories there have fresh wounds. Hell, I've been out of that religion for 2 years now and I still get a little emotional recalling all the people who abandoned me, said nasty things about me, the sense of loneliness, etc.

 

You wanna know why so many of us feel emotional about the subject of Christianity? Most of us have those fresh wounds. And a great deal more have emotional scarring that will never go away. Some of our lives have been ruined, some have had our childhoods stolen, some of us were almost killed by the very religion that we believed in with our whole hearts (and I am not over dramatizing that last part, as it is tied in with my own experience). Of course, emotion plays a part in how we talk about Christianity (and note that I say Christianity and not God). So take your "why do you get so emotional about what you don't believe in" strawman argument and shove it.

 

But, having said that, I see no one arguing from emotion in this topic but you. YOU are the one that believes his interpretation of the freewill/predestination argument in Christian theology to be correct and it is YOU who has jumped into a topic without actually reading (or in this case, watching) the OP and have jumped into the argument cold to "defend" your beliefs with generalizations and strawman arguments.

[Guest end3]

Seriously SWIM,

 

Do I need to visit the testamonies section to find the specific phrasing for the numerous "Why doesn't God talk to me?" stories. If you can't read the emotion in those words then perhaps you might be the biggest braindead idiot on board.....hard to work up that much emotion when you don't believe in something. Oh, unless you smoke dope SWIM. And yes, you are the first to reply "I don't believe in God so it doesn't apply" phrase as I anticipated. Real good SWIM.....perhaps you have been smoking too much lately.

 

The hell...? Most of the things I read on the Testimony page are along the lines of "God didn't talk to me when I was a believer" (please note the use of the past tense) and "I would be a believer again if God were to talk to me" (asking for proof, quite a logical prerequisite for believing something exists). Now, I see no instance where someone on here is whining because a deity they don't believe in isn't talking to them! Quite the opposite.

 

And may I point out that the "Testimony" section is of course often reeking of emotion. Surely even you can understand that leaving the religion of your youth is a hard process and is often filled with pain. And many who leave their stories there have fresh wounds. Hell, I've been out of that religion for 2 years now and I still get a little emotional recalling all the people who abandoned me, said nasty things about me, the sense of loneliness, etc.

 

You wanna know why so many of us feel emotional about the subject of Christianity? Most of us have those fresh wounds. And a great deal more have emotional scarring that will never go away. Some of our lives have been ruined, some have had our childhoods stolen, some of us were almost killed by the very religion that we believed in with our whole hearts (and I am not over dramatizing that last part, as it is tied in with my own experience). Of course, emotion plays a part in how we talk about Christianity (and note that I say Christianity and not God). So take your "why do you get so emotional about what you don't believe in" strawman argument and shove it.

 

But, having said that, I see no one arguing from emotion in this topic but you. YOU are the one that believes his interpretation of the freewill/predestination argument in Christian theology to be correct and it is YOU who has jumped into a topic without actually reading (or in this case, watching) the OP and have jumped into the argument cold to "defend" your beliefs with generalizations and strawman arguments.

 

Hello Trike,

 

I am aware of the pain. SWIM is being SWIM.... What good would it do to watch a video that ex-christian are in consensus agreement? Just another one of you folks searching for like mindedness to feel some love.

 

Welcome

[Trike]

Aw, isn't that cute? You got us nailed down, we just need some love and use logic against religion in order to get it.

 

So, why jump into a discussion when you aren't even aware of the basis of the discussion?

 

And I find your reason for not watching the video a bit lacking. Who knows? You may just learn something.

[nightflight]

Hello Trike,

 

I am aware of the pain. SWIM is being SWIM.... What good would it do to watch a video that ex-christian are in consensus agreement? Just another one of you folks searching for like mindedness to feel some love.

 

Welcome

 

You see, there are different kinds of ex-christians. Some leave the faith because of biblical discrepancies, conflicts with science, etc. Of these the emotions range from calm acceptance to sadness to a deep sense of lostness from having no more faith to lean on. But there are the other types of ex-christians. These are those who just could not take the guilt and fear that Christianity doles out in spades. These ex-christians exhibit GREAT COURAGE in leaving the faith. Something in them says, enough!! and they make a break for the barbed wire. In time and through more courage, these ex-christians are exposed to the "forbidden information" that you don't hear about in the houses of worship. But it is still tough, and of the latter ex-christians, fellowship is very helpful. Now you probably get your rocks off on hearing how some who have left the faith still struggle with the fear of hell (which is the basis of Christianity and its power). But that is a reflection on YOU. To we in the ex camp, its is simply more evidence that you all are not the "new creations" you claim to be. Just another cult.

[white_raven23]

I have not contributed a post to this topic, but I have been following it. I agree that there have been some Christians on the board who are indeed idiots. However, I find that labels like "biggest braindead idiot" are thrown around a little too often. Based on what I have read, I would not call end3 a braindead idiot. Certainly, he has made some illogical conclusions and and unfair comments, but I hardly think that puts him in the category of braindead idiot. All of us make errors at some point, and what we say is coloured by how we see things. Things that seem very logically straight forward to us might not be as straight forward to Christians because they have not thought about things in the way we have.

 

I understand that sometimes people are hurt or offended by the comments that Christians make here. I don't deny that I have not been angered by some of the ignorant and silly things they have posted. I don't believe, though, that accusing these people of being "braindead idiots" or the like is the best way to maintain any kind of constructive discussion. We might say, "This is our turf, we don't need input from Christians, we don't owe them any justification for our beliefs etc" and we would be correct. But I think it would be good if the ignorant people who show up here don't leave with any preconceived ideas about exChristians being rude, immoral, angry etc. confirmed by such name calling.........

 

....even if the name fits.

 

Sorry if I am out of line by saying this, but it has been bothering me for a few weeks.

 

HelloWorld. Please read End's posts prior to this thread. SWIM is hardly the type of guy who would just slander someone without cause. End3 has given cause.

 

Plus....this is the Lion's Den. That may seem like a crappy excuse to justify being "meanies" towards people who have different beliefs...but ya know what? They really CAN go elsewhere if they want their effluvia to be treated like pearls of wisdom. Plenty of sites out there, they hardly need to come here.

 

The Lion's Den serves a purpose. This site is for the emotional support of EX-CHRISTIANS, and one of the most affirming, de-stressing, and even FUN things to do as an Ex-C is to be able to have the freedom to flat out call someone on their BS, using whatever colorful expressions they like. This is one of the ONLY places where we can do that. It is liberating being able to say what we want HERE where many of us cannot in Real Life.

 

Does than mean being downright abusive to every christian who comes in? For some ex-c members, that is what they need to help heal themselves. Many of us have to play "nice" and be all Politically Correct so damn much, that we can get wound up pretty tight. Better to unleash it here don't you think?

 

We are allowed to be angry....here, if no where else. Remember the description of the Forums, and the one for Lion's Den in particular. Christians know damn well what they could be in for by posting here. They are given fair warning.

 

I can certainly understand if you are not comfortable with such open venom. We are raised to suppress and deny anger. Taught to treat it like a "mistake" in our overall makeup. This is not so. It is the bottled-up rage I worry about now...not the person lashing at fools (proven time and time again in prior threads). The bottled rage eventually explodes. I've actually found myself to be much slower to frustration and anger in my Real Life, as there is somewhere I can go to express my irritations.

 

The Lion's Den Forum is not a fluke. Though it is not, and doesn't have to be for everyone, it is here for those who need it.

[Guest end3]

Make your own decision Helloworld, stay here, study these people and see what conclusion you find for their repenting of Christianity. I have.

[Deva]

Make your own decision Helloworld, stay here, study these people and see what conclusion you find for their repenting of Christianity. I have.

 

End3: You are as entitled to your beliefs as anyone, but using terms like "these people" and "repenting" is not helping you to get along with us. "Repent" is a Christian word implying we should be sorry for leaving Christianity. If you don't mean that, please clarify. We are not a monolithic entity. We are not all alike. We have various reasons for being here and different beliefs. Or have you abandoned all pretense at being civil and is your goal now to just piss off as many people here as possible?

 

Helloworld: SWIM and others here have a long history with End3, which is not probably appreciated by looking at recent threads alone.

[nightflight]

Make your own decision Helloworld, stay here, study these people and see what conclusion you find for their repenting of Christianity. I have.

 

 

Obviously not, since you are still under the delusion that all who have left Xianity have done it for the same reasons. But then you are no different than many fundagelicals who assume that people leave Christianity out of "sinful rebellion".

[Guest end3]

Make your own decision Helloworld, stay here, study these people and see what conclusion you find for their repenting of Christianity. I have.

 

End3: You are as entitled to your beliefs as anyone, but using terms like "these people" and "repenting" is not helping you to get along with us. "Repent" is a Christian word implying we should be sorry for leaving Christianity. If you don't mean that, please clarify. We are not a monolithic entity. We are not all alike. We have various reasons for being here and different beliefs. Or have you abandoned all pretense at being civil and is your goal now to just piss off as many people here as possible?

 

Helloworld: SWIM and others here have a long history with End3, which is not probably appreciated by looking at recent threads alone.

 

Not too sure sometimes Ms. Deva what it is that irritates me about the discussions here or my own anger, so it is hard for me to put a finger on it. I don't particularly care for being called names, but I realize that the Lion's Den is open for such. I am not the only one who has jumped a thread having not read or watched the OP, but certainly get called on it for being a Christian. What is so wonderful about the non-believer position if it yields a sour fruit as well?

 

Currently I am in apathy, which typically leads to being a touch more disdainful in my posts. I do, though, occasionally find "the truth" here from those who are actually seaching for it, but, more often find it buried by fundamental non-belief.

 

My apologies to the participants who feel as though my disdain was directed at them. Specifically it would be SWIM and Vigile....which is par for the course.