A Sincere Apology

[Deva]

Hello Adonisai, I am glad you decided to sign on and explain the situation. Welcome to Ex-C!

 

I have a question for you all here. Do you guys ever get really, really angry at Christians?

 

Yes, from time to time. Like recently. I am afraid I took some of it out on Lady Wolf. It isn't her fault that my best friend is suddenly turning Catholic on me. Sometimes I just hate the mind virus. Other times, I feel I am recovering nicely.

[Antlerman]

I have a question for you all here. Do you guys ever get really, really angry at Christians?

Boy did you come to the right forums! This site is all about people venting, telling it like it is for them, etc, in how they feel about what has happened to them by those who use the religion of Christianity as their justification for being human assholes. Welcome...

 

For myself, it's been many years now since my de-conversion, so I feel a whole lot more power than when I was breaking from it, so now I don't get angry that much anymore. I just crush them if I don't care for what their doing, and its within my reach to do so. Otherwise, I try to build bridges whenever possible, as I see not everyone is a dyed one color of wool as the most rabid, most vocal are. LadyWolf is one of those examples of Christians who are actually open to thinking beyond the doctrines. I don't slam the door in the faces of people of are sincere, simply because they find some value in the myth symbols.

 

I have been having this problem lately. I can't seem to control my temper and I am not sure why? I know this is off topic but I came out of the Christian religion and my husband is still in it.

Yes, I'm sure that makes it quite difficult and would account for a lot of pent up frustration. I'm fortunate in that my partner and I share mostly similar views. I did have that situation before where I was changing my views about Christianity and my wife back then was kind of tossed up in the air by that. It didn't do much good for our relationship with everything else. I hope better for you all in all...

 

This has been hard. Also my parents, most of my friends, my relatives, well, you know, mostly everyone in America is a Christian of some sort or another. I just seem consumed with this anger and it won't go away. So I go to forums like the one I posted on and I get really nasty with the people there.

You should check out our "rants and replies" section.

 

That is not nice at all and doesn't set a very good example of what we really are all about. And yet I can't seem to help myself, especially when they call you names.

There's something about insult to injury that really gets most everyone. The hypocrisy of those who profess purity, then act worse then the most hardened atheist in the behaviors to others that really can set someone off. They pass judgment and hurt, while self-righteously justifying themselves because of some label they wear...

 

Anyway... we're a diverse bunch here. Good discussions, freedom to be yourself. Welcome.

[Antlerman]

I have a question for you all here. Do you guys ever get really, really angry at Christians?

 

Yes, from time to time. Like recently. I am afraid I took some of it out on Lady Wolf. It isn't her fault that my best friend is suddenly turning Catholic on me. Sometimes I just hate the mind virus. Other times, I feel I am recovering nicely.

That explains it. How come she's becoming a Catholic?

[Deva]

That explains it. How come she's becoming a Catholic?

 

Long story, sent you a PM

[Guest adonisai]

Thank you for the welcome Antlerman and DevaLight. I appreciate it. It feels so...well, I don't know how to put this...put really, really strange to be in the company of people who are like me. You know, come to think of it, I don't think I have anyone like me in my group of friends or family. Maybe I am in denial because it seems too good to be true. There are so many of them and so few of us, or at least that is the way it has been for me. I live in a really small, kinda backwoodsy type of town, but the kind with a big old church on every corner. And I haven't come out of the closet yet here really, except for with my immediate family and with some really good friends. I have two sons and my oldest is an atheist at age 18. I think that is really great, too, because it took me so long. He used to hear my husband and I argue about religion all the time and told me that my questions made much more sense than my husband's answers. And he said that quite a few of his friends don't believe either.

 

Boy, if you would have told me a couple of years ago that this would be me today, I would have laughed in your face. I used to be one of those vocal Christians who went around telling everyone that "Jesus saves" and "It's nothing you can do. It's a FREE GIFT." Yeah, some free gift, I'll tell you. But I broke out and now I'm free, free to be me. That feels good and it feels good knowing that there is no evil monster up there just waiting to throw my ass in some big lake of fire. But I still have that anger management problem, which I suppose I will get over in time. Maybe it will help to post here but I tend to be long winded. If I say too much, just tell me to shut up. I really think I would like to write a book about all this stuff. I do write down a lot of things and I think it helps to work through it that way.

 

It is hard being married to a starchy believer. I know I could never change him, no matter what I say. I have tried, believe me. He still goes to church every week and I gotta say those stupid prayers before dinner and before bedtime. I do it because it helps us get along. But sometimes I do get really depressed. So thanks for talking to me here and I have been reading here for a long time. You people are great and I am sooo glad there are websites like this one. I have noticed you all seem extremely intelligent and that was something kinda lacking on that other website. Maybe that's why Albert Einstein and Bill Gates and Carl Sagan were all atheists. They were intelligent, DAHHH. I'm not the smartest person, but wouldn't you think you would take the advice of someone with a genius IQ over those crazy televangelists and preachers who just tell you things that make you happy and then steal your money? You would think. Maybe with the ecomomy being so bad, some of those televangelists will have to go off the air. Hey, that would be one good thing about the crummy ecomony.

[florduh]

Be of good cheer, Deva.

 

Better a Catholic than a True Christian™

[freeday]

If you do not believe in hell, what do you need to be saved from? Why a savior? Could you concieve of the other atrocities your god committed in the Old Testament? If Jesus and the Father are one then Jesus is just as guilty of the crimes is he not? Or do you also reject that Trinity doctorine? Are you even sure you are a Christian and not some sort of cultist heritic?

 

Our own hedonism and egocentrism. I feel altruism benefits the self and society as a whole. Would you not agree?

 

How does that work? How does Jesus save one from hedonism and egocentrism? What good does it do to be free of hedonism and egocentrism in heaven? I know that Jesus does nothing about these things here. What would be the point of being altruistic in heaven? Everything is taken care of there, isn't it? Rather than waiting for everyone to be altruistic, why doesn't God just see that everyone has enough? He owns all the stuff, right? Other than the touchy feelly stuff that folks of any religion often experience -- where is God/Jesus evident as a savior?

 

I feel that the primary bulk of his teachings is self denial of self self-centeredness, therefore I would conclude that Jesus would consider partaking in debaucheries to be sinful. Hence, in a Christian theology, Jesus holds an altruistic characteristic in high regards on earth.

 

As far as these traits being present on absent in heaven, I can't answer this for you.

[freeday]

leave now before you are an ex-christian, they are exceptionally persuasive with their loquacious dialectic. I only remain a christian by hiding in seclusion and reading the Bible to abrogate their philosophy.

What the hell is this supposed to say? May I attempt to translate?

"Leave now before you lose your faith. They are exceptionally persuasive with their well-worded, well-reasoned arguments. I only remain a Christian by isolating myself from ideas, and work diligently at programming myself to think only one way about the world through the repetition of reading the same texts over and over until it's force of habit and so ingrained in my mind that deviation from it into the world of independent thinking will become increasingly more difficult. Some may call this brainwashing, but that is the thoughts of the devil. God calls this faith."

 

You are joking, right?

 

It was a compliment for one thing, then it was a joke with a hint of truth. I prefer to be in Plato's cave staring at shadow figures on the wall; it was much more assuring then.

[The-Captain]

It was a compliment for one thing, then it was a joke with a hint of truth. I prefer to be in Plato's cave staring at shadow figures on the wall; it was much more assuring then.

 

I know the feeling, lotta caves to step out of. Knowledge may be an unlimited good but it sure isn't a security blanket.

[freeday]

It is hard being married to a starchy believer. I know I could never change him, no matter what I say. I have tried, believe me. He still goes to church every week and I gotta say those stupid prayers before dinner and before bedtime. I do it because it helps us get along. But sometimes I do get really depressed. So thanks for talking to me here and I have been reading here for a long time. You people are great and I am sooo glad there are websites like this one. I have noticed you all seem extremely intelligent and that was something kinda lacking on that other website. Maybe that's why Albert Einstein and Bill Gates and Carl Sagan were all atheists. They were intelligent, DAHHH. I'm not the smartest person, but wouldn't you think you would take the advice of someone with a genius IQ over those crazy televangelists and preachers who just tell you things that make you happy and then steal your money? You would think. Maybe with the ecomomy being so bad, some of those televangelists will have to go off the air. Hey, that would be one good thing about the crummy ecomony.

 

I am not sure it is fair to say that there is a positive correlation between Christians and low IQ's; maybe our frowardness, but not our intellegence. I hope you and your husband can work this out, I would imagine this is a difficult situation for you guys.

 

Also, I willfully give money; our church helped fix up a local middle school last weekend. There is some good in the religion despite it's negative connotations.

[Looking4Answers]

Also, I willfully give money; our church helped fix up a local middle school last weekend. There is some good in the religion despite it's negative connotations.

 

Hitler and the Third Reich pulled Germany out of a very poor economy, so there was some good in Nazism, despite it's negative connotations.

 

Sorry. I just couldn't resist.

[Deva]

I feel that the primary bulk of his teachings is self denial of self self-centeredness, therefore I would conclude that Jesus would consider partaking in debaucheries to be sinful. Hence, in a Christian theology, Jesus holds an altruistic characteristic in high regards on earth.

As far as these traits being present on absent in heaven, I can't answer this for you.

 

 

You are missing the main point of the question which is- how does Jesus save us from being self-centered? He's a saviour. That is a lot different from Jesus "holds an altruistic characteristic in high regards on earth." Many hold these characteristics in high regard, but it is not presented that they can actually save others from the opposite.

 

I maintain that no outside force is going to save you in any way, shape or form.

[Antlerman]

Maybe it will help to post here but I tend to be long winded.

Ever read my posts? Being few in words isn't how one would describe me.

 

It is hard being married to a starchy believer. I know I could never change him, no matter what I say. I have tried, believe me.

What I've found actually is the reasons people feel motivated to try to change the other person's views to match theirs is because ultimately they're looking to find self empowerment. This goes no matter what direction of the issue of belief. On the surface it can be said it's because that person is insecure in their beliefs and need the other to agree with them in order to feel justified, but I would argue that what is really hoped for is to be respected and accepted in their beliefs by the other person, regardless really if they share those views directly or not.

 

After my divorce from my wife many years back, she raised our son within the whole Christian Evangelical world, where they believe things like the earth is only 6000 years old, the United States was built on Christian doctrines, etc. As he was growing up and I was hearing these things, I would challenge and counter them to him, largely because he was challenging me, scoffing at my beliefs that science has offered evidence to the contrary, and that religious beliefs should not pretend to be something they are not (scientific). I impressed upon him with a fair amount of facts over the course of several years that there is legitimacy in other points of view (Imagine from reading the content of my posts here on this site what he's gotten from me in the real world. ... overwhelmed, you could really say. Poor kid... ).

 

Anyway, as life would have it he has matured, and though he still sees himself a Christian he has mellowed in the rhetoric and attitudes and doesn't choose to challenge me with nonsense anymore. In fact... here's the point. Guess what? We have moved to a point of actual, mutual respect. Once I could get him past the bluster of his rhetoric to see that I have legitimacy in my views, he listened to me. Not that he agreed, or simply paid insincere lip service to me, but actually listened. As he tells me his view - behind the bluster, the heart of what he believes - the human truth of it, it was possible for us to see eye to eye.

 

It doesn't matter to me that he believes in God, or finds value in prayer, or has a set of morals he uses the symbols of the Christian faith to support. If at the end of the day we can respect one another, that he respects me and I him, we are both empowered as individuals and our relationship is made stronger through bonding together with our dissimilarities.

 

I have noticed you all seem extremely intelligent and that was something kinda lacking on that other website. Maybe that's why Albert Einstein and Bill Gates and Carl Sagan were all atheists. They were intelligent, DAHHH. I'm not the smartest person, but wouldn't you think you would take the advice of someone with a genius IQ over those crazy televangelists and preachers who just tell you things that make you happy and then steal your money? You would think.

Actually, intellectuals usually are too occupied with ideas, to focus on selling product. Evangelists are used car salesmen (not new car salesmen even, but used cars, since the religion is not a new idea). They're not about plumbing the depths of concepts, but about selling ideas as products, motivating people to purchase a set of goods; "You'd look great in this religion! Imagine how good you'll feel driving around in this beauty!"

 

Intellectuals aren't geared that way. They come up with ideas, which are then seized upon, repackaged to make it marketable to the masses, then sold by the salesmen who make profit from it. Hell... even atheistic ideas can become popularized and mass marketed this way, become a new fad religion of its own in this manner, losing the real content of what the intellectuals were investigating.

 

Believe it or not, the Christian religion itself began as an intellectual enterprise in this same sort of way. Mythmaking is the intellectual effort of social movements. Myths are vehicles to convey the content and meaning of life their communities. It was the repackaging and mass marketing of these myths that turn it into a religion).

 

Maybe with the ecomomy being so bad, some of those televangelists will have to go off the air. Hey, that would be one good thing about the crummy ecomony.

Sorry to pour cold water on that thought... usually when economic times are hard, that's when those sorts of peddlers make the strongest sales. They're selling hope, and people are looking for some during those times. Salesmen.

[chefranden]

If you do not believe in hell, what do you need to be saved from? Why a savior? Could you concieve of the other atrocities your god committed in the Old Testament? If Jesus and the Father are one then Jesus is just as guilty of the crimes is he not? Or do you also reject that Trinity doctorine? Are you even sure you are a Christian and not some sort of cultist heritic?

 

Our own hedonism and egocentrism. I feel altruism benefits the self and society as a whole. Would you not agree?

 

How does that work? How does Jesus save one from hedonism and egocentrism? What good does it do to be free of hedonism and egocentrism in heaven? I know that Jesus does nothing about these things here. What would be the point of being altruistic in heaven? Everything is taken care of there, isn't it? Rather than waiting for everyone to be altruistic, why doesn't God just see that everyone has enough? He owns all the stuff, right? Other than the touchy feelly stuff that folks of any religion often experience -- where is God/Jesus evident as a savior?

 

I feel that the primary bulk of his teachings is self denial of self self-centeredness, therefore I would conclude that Jesus would consider partaking in debaucheries to be sinful. Hence, in a Christian theology, Jesus holds an altruistic characteristic in high regards on earth.

 

As far as these traits being present on absent in heaven, I can't answer this for you.

 

Well the Buddha taught this too. Is he the savior? Obviously Jesus hasn't taken care of the self-centeredness problem on earth. Therefore he hasn't saved anything. The best you could say is that he was a teacher of "the good". But he is not the only one.

 

Usually a Christian is saved from hell not from his/her bad behavior in spite of shit loads of christian testimony to the contrary. You have to wait until death for salvation from hell, so I suppose that you have to wait for heaven for salvation from bad behavior -- if that is what it is about.

 

But why do you have to wait for the afterlife? Why is it only in heaven that Jesus can modify your behavior? Would you make the free will excuse for this? If so what happens to free will in heaven? Is it taken away? Are people somehow good in spite of free will? Why does God wait until heaven before doing this? Why not do it now? All it takes for evil to triumph is for a Good God to do nothing.

[chefranden]

Also, I willfully give money; our church helped fix up a local middle school last weekend. There is some good in the religion despite it's negative connotations.

 

But this is exactly the problem. This is supposed to be a divine institution of an all powerful all good god. Therefore there should be all good, not just some good. Any old group of humans can do some good. There is nothing special about the Church.

[Ouroboros]

I am not sure it is fair to say that there is a positive correlation between Christians and low IQ's; maybe our frowardness, but not our intellegence.

I think religion can be a cap on a persons intelligence. He might be smart, but religion kind of short-cut the circuit and make certain reasoning completely wrong, because you have to be willing to let everything go if you want to make a honest reasoning with yourself. It's not enough to be smart and spend some time thinking. Because religion can cause the mind to make "leaps-of-faith" randomly in the chain of arguments. So the intelligence might be there, but it's in the danger of being misused or not used at all. What good does a nail-gun do, if you just use the handle to hammer the nails manually?

 

Also, I willfully give money; our church helped fix up a local middle school last weekend. There is some good in the religion despite it's negative connotations.

I think it's the people who can be good, regardless of church or religion. Good people make up a good religion, while bad people make up a bad religion.

 

Also consider, the Catholic Church was the Christian Church until the Reformation. So for 1,000 years, the altruistic side of Christianity was not there, but rather, the Church was the perpetrator and cause to a lot of misery. Even after the Reformation it didn't become the epitome of good deeds for a while. I'm not sure when Christians started to be giving and helping in society, but I suspect it must have been one or another sect the last 100-150 years which started that trend. Probably it started with the Salvation Army, if I'm not totally mistaken. Don't give your own religion credit for something it's done for only some 100 years, and then forget the other 1,900 years of pain and suffering.

 

Give us atheists another 1,500 years (since it's a fairly new movement in the present form), and you might see how we can spend the last 100 years there being a little nice once in a while, and we can also claim, "it's because we're soo good!"

[Vixentrox]

Also, I willfully give money; our church helped fix up a local middle school last weekend. There is some good in the religion despite it's negative connotations.

 

But this is exactly the problem. This is supposed to be a divine institution of an all powerful all good god. Therefore there should be all good, not just some good. Any old group of humans can do some good. There is nothing special about the Church.

Haha, not to mention even organizations like the KKK and Nazi's will do charitable deeds. Incidently, to join the KKK you must adhere to thier rules. From thier very own rules: You must be able to profess faith in Jesus Christ as personal Savior

 

 

http://www.kukluxklan.bz/faq.html

[Neon Genesis]

And I always say, "Who wouldn't want to be a Christian?" Not for the dogma or anything like that but for the simple fact that it is comforting to THINK you are going off to some pleasure palace after death and meeting up with your long lost friends and relatives.

I prefer what I think it was Mark Twain who once said that all the most interesting people are in hell or something like that.

 

Also consider, the Catholic Church was the Christian Church until the Reformation. So for 1,000 years, the altruistic side of Christianity was not there, but rather, the Church was the perpetrator and cause to a lot of misery. Even after the Reformation it didn't become the epitome of good deeds for a while.

And even when most of these groups go around doing good deeds, nine times out of ten you can't receive this good deed without also receiving a threat of eternal torture from God. That's not to say that all Christians are like this but it seems like most of the time when Christians do these good deeds, there's always some catch involved. It reminds me of how sometimes you get those free trips to somewhere like the Bahamas but there's always that catch that you have to sit through some convention thing where business salesmen try to get you to buy something when you go on the trip.

 

Give us atheists another 1,500 years (since it's a fairly new movement in the present form), and you might see how we can spend the last 100 years there being a little nice once in a while, and we can also claim, "it's because we're soo good!"

This reminds me of a blog entry the friendlyatheist.com made awhile back about a group of atheists who went to New Orleans to help with the Hurricane Katrina recovery and they were working together with some Christians down there. Anyway, the Christians were surprised to see atheists down there helping out because obviously atheists are supposed to have no morals and not be good people.

[white_raven23]

Adonosai Welcome!!

 

I defend Anger a LOT in different places on here.

 

Humans have emotions. Our cultural environment teaches us from the time we are wee little bitty the social norms for emotional expression, or in the case of emotions labelled "negative"...to NOT express them, to bottle them inside, and feel shameful and guilty about them instead of teaching to express them in appropriate ways.

 

This is NOT healthy, but it HAS created an industry of counselors of various stripes that we PAY $$$$ to listen to us Vent.

 

That, is messed up.

 

Leaving a religion is a lot like leaving a relationship (shaddup squiddies...don't even SAY it IS a relationship...cuz I'll just say I want tax breaks for having a boyfriend too...so Shut Up), or having a close loved one die. You go through the Stages of Grief leaving religion too. One of those stages is Anger.

 

The anger has to be dealt with. Not by sucking it up and bottling it away. That is a recipie for a very embarrassing blow up over something relatively small. You do not want to plow your car into a tree because you are raging over a stupid religious billboard. You have to vent the anger, or you really won't be able to recover.

 

As Antlerman said....check out the Rants and Replies section. This whole site is dedicated to recovery from christianity, so you will see anger venting in various ways all over...but Rants and Replies is where most of it winds up.

 

Here you are welome and encouraged to unwind and unload...you may get worried, because you may feel you are expressing a LOT of anger here...it's okay. After the bulk of the rage pours out (might take a while depending on how long you've been in the religion), you may have the occassional flare up over something...it's okay. Here is a place where it is safe to vent, rip, and roar no matter where you are in your recovery.

 

Welcome Again!

[freeday]

Well the Buddha taught this too. Is he the savior? Obviously Jesus hasn't taken care of the self-centeredness problem on earth. Therefore he hasn't saved anything. The best you could say is that he was a teacher of "the good". But he is not the only one.

 

Usually a Christian is saved from hell not from his/her bad behavior in spite of shit loads of christian testimony to the contrary. You have to wait until death for salvation from hell, so I suppose that you have to wait for heaven for salvation from bad behavior -- if that is what it is about.

 

But why do you have to wait for the afterlife? Why is it only in heaven that Jesus can modify your behavior? Would you make the free will excuse for this? If so what happens to free will in heaven? Is it taken away? Are people somehow good in spite of free will? Why does God wait until heaven before doing this? Why not do it now? All it takes for evil to triumph is for a Good God to do nothing.

 

With Christ establishing his Kingdom on earth, He instructs us how to live Christ like. While in the earthly Kingdom with satanic influence, we are sinners and undeserving of the true Kingdom that is to come in Heaven which is unblemished. Therefore, Jesus saves us from our shortcomings in this earthly Kingdom so that we may enter into the better heavenly kingdom with no satan to influence us. Hence Jesus is a great teacher and savour.

[chefranden]

Well the Buddha taught this too. Is he the savior? Obviously Jesus hasn't taken care of the self-centeredness problem on earth. Therefore he hasn't saved anything. The best you could say is that he was a teacher of "the good". But he is not the only one.

 

Usually a Christian is saved from hell not from his/her bad behavior in spite of shit loads of christian testimony to the contrary. You have to wait until death for salvation from hell, so I suppose that you have to wait for heaven for salvation from bad behavior -- if that is what it is about.

 

But why do you have to wait for the afterlife? Why is it only in heaven that Jesus can modify your behavior? Would you make the free will excuse for this? If so what happens to free will in heaven? Is it taken away? Are people somehow good in spite of free will? Why does God wait until heaven before doing this? Why not do it now? All it takes for evil to triumph is for a Good God to do nothing.

 

With Christ establishing his Kingdom on earth, He instructs us how to live Christ like. While in the earthly Kingdom with satanic influence, we are sinners and undeserving of the true Kingdom that is to come in Heaven which is unblemished. Therefore, Jesus saves us from our shortcomings in this earthly Kingdom so that we may enter into the better heavenly kingdom with no satan to influence us. Hence Jesus is a great teacher and savour.

 

Friend Freeday, this is not an answer to the questions. This is a regurgitation of doctrine. I know what the doctrine is. What I don't know is why it makes no sense.

 

So Christ instructs us to live Christ like. So how is that different than any other teacher of good? The teachings have no more effect on the good than any other teacher of good. So what is special about it?

 

Why is there "satanic influence"? Why are Christians still subject to "satanic influence". Why isn't "Christic influence" stronger than "satanic influence"? Jesus doesn't save you from your shortcomings because you still have your shortcomings. Why does God have to wait until heaven to do away with satanic influence? If you are unable to ignore satanic influence in this life why does God condemn you for it? It may follow that Jesus was a great teacher, one of many, but it does not follow based on the evidence that Jesus is or was a savior.

[Abiyoyo]

So Christ instructs us to live Christ like. So how is that different than any other teacher of good? The teachings have no more effect on the good than any other teacher of good. So what is special about it?

 

For me Chef, it's because, unlike the others; Jesus claimed one of the oldest forms of God/religion, as His God. That's why He is special.

[Abiyoyo]

Why is there "satanic influence"? Why are Christians still subject to "satanic influence". Why isn't "Christic influence" stronger than "satanic influence"? Jesus doesn't save you from your shortcomings because you still have your shortcomings. Why does God have to wait until heaven to do away with satanic influence? If you are unable to ignore satanic influence in this life why does God condemn you for it? It may follow that Jesus was a great teacher, one of many, but it does not follow based on the evidence that Jesus is or was a savior.

 

Biblically, Jesus was the only one that could resist Satan, right? Peter was rebuked. Satan entered Judas. The only thing that Satan was able to do to Jesus, was kill Him, physically, right?

[chefranden]

Why is there "satanic influence"? Why are Christians still subject to "satanic influence". Why isn't "Christic influence" stronger than "satanic influence"? Jesus doesn't save you from your shortcomings because you still have your shortcomings. Why does God have to wait until heaven to do away with satanic influence? If you are unable to ignore satanic influence in this life why does God condemn you for it? It may follow that Jesus was a great teacher, one of many, but it does not follow based on the evidence that Jesus is or was a savior.

 

Biblically, Jesus was the only one that could resist Satan, right? Peter was rebuked. Satan entered Judas. The only thing that Satan was able to do to Jesus, was kill Him, physically, right?

 

So what is your point? It still doesn't answer the questions. So what if God is able to resist Satan? One would expect this to be the case. If a disciple in the physical presence of Jesus can't resist Satan, how does Jesus' resistance help you? You still can't resist Satan so what are you saved from?

[white_raven23]

For me Chef, it's because, unlike the others; Jesus claimed one of the oldest forms of God/religion, as His God. That's why He is special.

 

 

The only way you can say something so idiotic is due to your obvious ignorance and disregard (seasoned with a maybe hint of subconscious rascism) of the MAJORITY of religions that predate those beliefs.

 

Go to Godchecker.com and read every single entry. THEN come back here and be stupid.