Still Struggling

[Kris]

I think that your overall assessment of me is truly spot on!! My entire religious experience has been predicated around end-of-the-world fears. I can honestly say that I was not one of those persons that went to church for the fun of it-- but rather I felt like I had to be there in order to "be saved".

 

One thing that I can say about this experience is that it has forced me to really confront what I actually believe about christianity and bible-truthfulness. When I originally left the church years ago-- I still basically believed that the bible was true--that all of the things in it really did happen, that OT prophecies really did come true, and that Jesus lived and died for us--but I began to question the supposed future events. Like I said, the less I was able to prove as true--the more it validated my newfound postion.

 

So, since I have been grappling with the MOTB issue for the past year and a half, I have really taken a look at a lot of what the bible really has to say. To answer your questions:

1. Do you believe Jesus was born of a virgin?

 

No I don't. I believe that the writers of the gospels felt that they needed to insert information about a virgin birth to meet the perceived prophecy in Isiah (I think it was Isiah)-- As well, I think that virgin birth stories were picked up by Babylonian beliefs, and/or other surrounding religions and incorporated into the Christ story.

 

 

2. Do you believe Jesus performed miracles?

 

No-- I don't believe that Jesus performed any of the miracles as outlined in scripture. I don't think that any of the gospels were written by eye-witnesses in the first place-- but I do know that human nature alone can cause people to "embellish" stories to make the details much more exciting. I find it very difficult to believe that if Jesus was running around doing all of these magnificent things that he would not have been written about by a number of historians, or other people during that time that liked to write about interesting stuff. The only times Jesus is mentioned at all is when someone mentions that they had heard he had existed by someone else-- no eyewitnesses!!

 

3. Do you believe Jesus died for the sins of all people?

 

This one is a bit tricky. I do think that there may have been a charismatic gentlemen who walked the earth years ago, professing to be the messiah-- and I think that he was able to convince a number of apostles of this as well. I can kind of see him as one of the passionate religious people that we see even today. In his mind, he really was the saviour. I think that he caused enough trouble that he had to be put to death-- and as a result of this the stories about him grew and grew until someone started writing things down. But, one of the biggest issues that I have always had with the bible is how the god of the OT is so diametrically different that the god of the NT-- It almost seems as if an entirely new religion sprang up, and all of the OT rules were thrown out-- I really cannot reconcile this.

 

I really don't believe that Jesus died for my sins- I just think that he thought he did!! Kind of like when Islamic Fundamentalists sacrifice their lives for whatever religious reasons they find.

 

 

4. Do you believe Jesus had a bodily resurrection after the crucifixion?

 

The answer to this is no. I have always wondered why Jesus only showed himself to a few people-those in his personal circle. Why not float over Jerusalem so that everyone in the town caught a glimpse of you-- or at the very least--show to the Roman Soldier that you had said would see you coming in all of your glory!! Or how about to the rulers of the land-- boy that would have showed them who was boss now, wouldn't it!! I am just too much of a realist to accept this story at face value!! I think that the reality of the situation is that Jesus was put to death, and then his body was disposed of just like any other criminal at the time. The apostles had cleared out for fear of being put to death themselves-- and once their leader passed away, they had to re-group and come up with a new game plan. Since Jesus had told them over and over that he was going to come in glory and right all of the wrongs of the world (telling them that he would return before some of them had tasted death) they were biding their time--trying to get more followers into the fold, etc. I mean, if what Jesus told them was not true, then they just wasted a lot of time, and alienated a lot of people from their lives. So, they kept on trucking!!

 

 

I have spent a lot of time thinking about all of the things that happened in the bible and how unrealistic they sound. I mean, both of my kids have asked me at various times-- why doesn't god talk to us directly like he did all of those people in the bible? I tell them that I have wondered that same thing!! Why have we not been made privy to seeing or hearing Jesus like the apostles--we only have this book to read!! Something just doesn't seem to add up. Trust me-- I have really been mulling this over-- reading as much as I can about biblical archeology and how historically, much of what is in the bible could not have happened, as well as looking over other posts on this site to find even more information. I am reading through Why Doesn't God Heal Amputees" right now.

[Kris]

One more thing in addition to my last post. My definition of courage is that one acts in a noble way in spite of their fears driving them to act contrary to their noble act. I think your actions fit into this definition. It is always noble to seek the truth but courageous when done in spite of your fears of the end-times issues. I think you are remarkably brave for confronting your fears as you have. You are undoubtedly an inspiration to others. Keep up the courageous work. You will succeed!

 

Thanks for that. I hope that this post is not annoying to others-- and it is my honest wish that someday there might be another person with fears much like mine who finds this post and all of the replies and gets some sort of help from it!

[Overcame Faith]

I read your reply to my questions and I am impressed. You are obviously intelligent and articulate and have done a lot of research on these areas and it shows in what you wrote. I can honestly say that I have no great issues with anything you wrote. The scenarios you describe are far more plausable than what is written in the gospels and could very well be close to what actually happened, though none of us could say for sure.

 

If you are game, here are a few other questions:

 

5. Do you believe there is a Satan?

6. Do you believe there are demons?

7. Do you believe there is a hell, and if so, can you describe it or at least point to scriptures which define your belief?

8. Do you believe the god of the bible exists (the god of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob)?

[Jds22]

May I suggest the book Why People Believe Strange Things by Michael Shermer. Not necessarily about religion but a great read. It was one of the first books I read during my deconversion.

[Kris]

5. Do you believe there is a Satan?

 

I do not believe that there is a literal Satan--I honestly think that Satan was created as a foil to god-- I mean if there is only god, and bad things still happen, then you have to blame god for the good AND the bad. Therefore, I think that the concept of devil/Satan evolved as people began to catch on to this notion. I also think that as the jews moved in an out of other cultures, they picked up some other religious beliefs-- The devil doesn't is not very active in the early parts of the bible-- he seems to have evolved as time moved on.

 

 

 

6. Do you believe there are demons?

 

No--I am probably one of the most literal people you have ever seen. I really think that there is a logical explanation for everything. I have never believed in Ghosts, goblins, demons, etc. I think that people use demons to explain things away that they do not fully understand- such as someone who has mental health issues. It is much easier to say that they are demon possessed then to say that they have a chemical imbalance in their brain that causes them to do strange things. Demons can also be used to excuse someones evil behaviour-- we are often amazed at the depravity of humans-- how someone could so easily kill another, and do it without remorse-- it must be demons. No, it is either mental health issues, or the person in question is just a really bad person!!

 

 

 

7. Do you believe there is a hell, and if so, can you describe it or at least point to scriptures which define your belief?

 

No-- I really do not think that there is a hell-- if there was, so many souls would be roasting away by now. What kind of god would allow kindling to continue to be born only to fuel this fire when they die. I think that the concept of hell was also developed over time. The OT does not really describe hell, but refers to eternal death. Hell becomes an issue in the NT-- but again, I think this is because some of the beliefs of other religions influenced early christians. It is also much easier to convince people to choose to follow your new religion when you throw in that failure to obey will result in eternal suffering. As you know from my previous posting-- I can not understand how any "creator" could be ok with eternally punishing his creation. I don't even like to kill bugs because I feel bad that I am snuffing out a life-- I really try to let things be if I possibly can. (All reasoning of this nature goes out the window, however when it comes to black-widows--because those things are scary, and I can't stand the thought of one scuttling around in my house-- I call my husband, and he promptly squashes. I do feel bad, though!!) I have always been a very empathetic person-- so for me forgiveness and understanding transcend any perceived evil that one might cause toward me. For those reasons, I can not support the concept of hell. My thought is that you live and then die-- just like everything else on the earth. You no longer exist-- but you won't know it-- you are just a candle blown out.

 

 

 

8. Do you believe the god of the bible exists (the god of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob)?

 

As I stated earlier, the concept of this god changes too much from the OT to the NT to be valid in my mind. As a child, I was very confused by the fact that there was God, Jesus, and the Holy Ghost. I wondered why god needed any of these other entities-- I even asked the catholic nun who taught my sunday school class-- because I really was trying to understand. I think that she just told me to "be quiet and complete the crossword puzzle" that I had been given as an activity. As I have looked through the bible with a critcal eye, I find that there is so much in it that contradicts itself-- like I have wondered if we were all created by god--why did he have chosen people? And, if these people were truly chosen, why were they always at battle (and still are to this very day)? And, why was god's temple so easily destroyed by the supposed bad people-- I mean, couldn't they have been stopped with a lightning bolt? Why were other peoples able to take away the Ark of the Covenant with such ease, when supposedly only the high priests should be able to have access to it? Why doesn't archeology validate any of the stories in the bible?

 

Then you move to the NT-- and all of a sudden you don't hear anything from God at all-- like he has stepped aside so that Jesus can run the show-- Now, I know that we are supposed to believe that God and Jesus are the same, but many scriptures designate them to be seperate-- and the OT was so jealous that I find it highly unlikely that he would be ok with people now worshipping Jesus-- it just doesn't make any sense to me-- and really never did.

[Kris]

I will look into the book-- JDS 22. I have watched a few of Shermer's webcasts and found him to be interesting. KM

[Overcame Faith]

"There you go again" to quote one of Ronald Reagan's famous one liners. What I mean by that is there you go again with a really fine articulate and well-reasoned statement in support of your lack of beliefs in these areas. Well done and, again, I can't say that I have any major disagreements with your views.

 

Moving on:

 

9. As a general matter without necessarily focusing in on any particular part, do you believe the bible is the inspired word of god?

10. Do you believe there were people in the past who we refer to as "prophets" to whom god (however you may define that word) gave messages to pass on to everyone else? If so, did these messages include insights into what would occur in the future?

11. Do you believe there is some sort of divine plan for the earth and its inhabitants? If so, what is your understanding of the ultimate goal of that plan?

12. Do you believe there is a deity or god who cares about how individuals conduct their lives? If so, how are this god's/deity's preferences for our behavior transmitted to us so we know (if they are, at all)?

[Kris]

9. As a general matter without necessarily focusing in on any particular part, do you believe the bible is the inspired word of god?

 

 

No--From what I can tell, it was written by many different men, and any of the inspiration in it comes from what they either believed or wanted others to believe. I would be embarrassed about how the bible was written, if I was god!! And, it is so confusing!! If this is supposed to be our instructions on how to live, etc. I would think that god would make things a bit clearer!

 

 

 

 

 

10. Do you believe there were people in the past who we refer to as "prophets" to whom god (however you may define that word) gave messages to pass on to everyone else? If so, did these messages include insights into what would occur in the future?

 

I think that there were people who "thought" god was telling them something--I think some of the OT prophets liked being thought of as having an ear to god-- as Kings and the like paid attention to them. As I have read through a number of the prophets' writings, I have found that that a lot of the things that they said would happen either did not happen at all, happened much differently than they described, or appeared to be one of those situations where the writing indicates that it was developed "after-the-fact" and so the prophet already knew what would happen!!

 

 

 

 

11. Do you believe there is some sort of divine plan for the earth and its inhabitants? If so, what is your understanding of the ultimate goal of that plan?

 

After all of my years on this earth, I have no idea what divine plan god has for his inhabitants. If I was to continue to listen to the end-time advocates, I would think that god just wants to annihilate mass number of humans who don't follow his will. I have no idea why!! I would think that the goal of every human is to appreciate life for as long as you can-- and try not to be stupid!!

 

 

 

 

12. Do you believe there is a deity or god who cares about how individuals conduct their lives? If so, how are this god's/deity's preferences for our behavior transmitted to us so we know (if they are, at all)?

 

No, I don't believe that this is the case. As I had stated before-- why doesn't god talk to us? Is it just a matter of when we were born? He only talked to people during the first couple thousand years-- but now we just have to "read the word" to figure out what we need to do?

[Overcame Faith]

Another set of excellent answers with which I have no quarrel.

 

Alright, in light of everything you have stated:

 

13. Is there a religious basis for your fear of microchips or the MOTB? If so, what is it?

[Kris]

13. Is there a religious basis for your fear of microchips or the MOTB? If so, what is it?

 

Logically, no-- And, that is one thing that I have been really trying to convince myself of. I have mulled the fact that I really cannot identify any prophecy in the bible that has not come true other than by the fact that it was written after the event occured, or has been manipulated to fit, or just doesn't fit at all, so the bible has about as good of track record as Nostradomas, or Jeanne Dixon. So, I know that I should not really worry about Revelation at all-- in the sense that it is highly unlikely that John would be the ONLY prophezier to actually get things right-- BUT, it is hard for me to get over that hump.

 

I know that I have to quit looking at future events through the lens of the fundamentalists--but it is hard to do once you have been conditioned. The issue of human barcoding and cashless societies has been such a big spector throughout my life, that it still frightens me, even though I know it should not. I have been reasoning in my head that these fundamentalist preachers jump on anything that might support their agenda--and this is no exception. I also fully realize that things can happen in life that might have "similarities" to what people perceive bible prophecy to say, and can be completely wrong, and that this could certainly be the possiblity with microchips--but would feel so much better if I could just get concrete confirmation of that!!

 

I just have to work on myself-- and how I think, by reconditioning how I react to my fears. I know that it takes time-- but if the world is not ending anytime soon, that I should have LOTS of time to work through my issue, right?

[Overcame Faith]

That's right, logically, you don't have a religious basis for your fear of microchips or the MOTB. So maybe logic is not the right approach at this point. From what you've posted, it appeared that the movie, The Omen, was your first encounter with the end-times issues. That movie appeared to have scared you pretty badly. Can you tell me what exactly it was about The Omen that scared you so?

[Kris]

I think that it was the fact that this evil entity would come to be on the earth, and would then compel people to do something that would send them to hell. Prior to that movie, I had not really explored the concept of evil. Of course, I was also scared by the fact that it was a child-- about the same age as me-- who could be so evil. Then when my Mom tied the fiction-- with what I percieved to be facts (the bible), I became terrified!! At that point in my little life, I thought that the bible really was the word of god-- and god put something really scary in that book!! A psychiatrist would likely have a field day with me-- but I would also think that they would identify this incident as the point where my phobia first began. I was very much a thinker as a child (I was an only, and was also a latch-key kid who was treated like a adult at a very young age)so while most kids could fluff off something that frightened them, I was nota able to do this!! I remember praying everynight that god would not let the antichrist take over the world, and I really meant it--for me and for everyone else!!

[Overcame Faith]

I've seen The Omen several times. The most striking thing about it is how it does not follow the bible. They just made things up Hollywood style and then added just enough bible so it was vaguely reminiscent of Revelation.

 

I think that it was the fact that this evil entity would come to be on the earth, and would then compel people to do something that would send them to hell.

 

I think the emphasis in the above quote is the word "compel." I have noticed in your previous posts that it seems to be the fear that it is something you will not have any control over that could result in your being cast into hell. Thus, this antichrist rises up and "compels" people to get the MOTB and in so doing they are consigned to hell. And the worst thing is that once you are compelled to do this thing, there is no way for you to escape hell. Even jesus will not forgive you for this folly. Thus, you are the victim of the ultimate evil. It was not your choice to be sent to hell, but something evil made the choice for you.

 

Now, think about this. If the above scenario were true, who would ultimately be the source of evil? Wouldn't it be the god who supposedly has control of everything that is the truly evil one? He will have allowed these circumstances to arise when he could have put a stop to them. I believe you see this as well and thus see the entire spiritual realm, from god to jesus to the holy spirit to the angels to satan to demons to the antichrist, as conspiring together to do this great evil thing to those who are unfortunate enough to be alive at this time. Thus, there is no spiritual refuge and utterly no hope at all should these events come to pass.

 

I'm not talking about The Omen, but did something happen in your life which was bad, maybe terrifying, which you had no control over, from which there was no escape and you were the innocent victim? Obviously, I'm not asking you to post anything so very personal that makes you uncomfortable, but even without describing it if you wish not to, could you say if there was such an event?

[Overcame Faith]

Kris, one other thing. I'm not sure if you've noticed it, but Webmaster Dave has now installed a live chat room. Anytime you'd like to go there to have a real time conversation, it's easy to do.

[Kris]

Well, one of the things that has bothered me the most in the book of Revelation has to do with scripture that says that god allowed this all to happen-- I did not have time to look up the verses specifically, but is in the chapter in which the angel explains the seven hills, and the ten kings, etc. to John. One of the scriptures states that god allows the beast to be given power so that all of this stuff can take place according to his plan. Somewhere else in the bible, it always says that god sends people a strong delusion so that they believe a lie. So, in the end, it does seem that god is the real bad guy here-- he allows people to be decieved and to go to hell. I hate that-- and maybe that is a part of my fear as well.

 

To answer your other question-- I did have a traumatic childhood, and it was probably the most painful time in my life. However, I have actually had a wonderful adulthood, and don't really let the effects of my past haunt me. I have also forgiven those that affected my childhood in an adverse way. I did feel quite powerless to controling my situation as a child, and can see the similarity to how I perceive this situation to be as well-- I feel somewhat powerless.

[Overcame Faith]

Well, one of the things that has bothered me the most in the book of Revelation has to do with scripture that says that god allowed this all to happen-- I did not have time to look up the verses specifically, but is in the chapter in which the angel explains the seven hills, and the ten kings, etc. to John. One of the scriptures states that god allows the beast to be given power so that all of this stuff can take place according to his plan. Somewhere else in the bible, it always says that god sends people a strong delusion so that they believe a lie. So, in the end, it does seem that god is the real bad guy here-- he allows people to be decieved and to go to hell. I hate that-- and maybe that is a part of my fear as well.

 

Remember god's part in the ten plagues on pharoah in Exodus. He sent Moses there to tell pharoah to let the Israelites go, but god hardened pharoah's heart so pharoah would net let the people go. It was not until after the final, and most terrible, plague that god even allowed pharoah to allow the Israelites to leave. So this god required pharoah and the innocent egyptians who had nothing whatsoever to do with holding the israelites in bondage to endure all ten plagues so god could prove how tough he was. And what was the point of all of this? Well, we know that the events as described in Exodus really didn't happen since there is no archaelogicial evidence to support it. But the Hebrews liked the story because it showed that they had a really tough god and it was a sort of warning for other nations not to mess with them lest their god do the same thing to them.

 

I believe that John uses this same type of scenario in Revelation. God does not allow people to exercise their free will, but forces his "plan" on people to prove how macho he is. Like the Hebrews with their exodus story, John is paiting a ferocious god that will have no mercy on those who are messing with the Christians who were being persecuted. Therefore, revelation can be seen as a sort of warning for those who persecute christians to stop lest they feel the wrath of this really tough god.

 

To answer your other question-- I did have a traumatic childhood, and it was probably the most painful time in my life. However, I have actually had a wonderful adulthood, and don't really let the effects of my past haunt me. I have also forgiven those that affected my childhood in an adverse way. I did feel quite powerless to controling my situation as a child, and can see the similarity to how I perceive this situation to be as well-- I feel somewhat powerless.

 

Any chance that this event could be the real source of your current anxiety?

[Kris]

I really do not think so-- I just really think that I have had a major fear of god (probably even more so than the devil), along with anything religiously motivated. As you know looking through the thread of my posts-- religion has played a huge role in my life, but certainly not a postive one.

 

One thing that crossed my mind this weekend is that since I have basically renouced christianity, and the bible as fact, then I have pretty much sunk my battleship if it turns out that god really did exist-- it would not matter if I have a microchip in my or not. So, if I really thought that all of this was true, I should be back in the pews of my church trying to "get right". The fact that I am not at church indicates to me that my sub-consious knows that I truly don't believe that I am going to go to hell-- I just need to convince my consious mind of this.

[Overcame Faith]

You know, Kris, maybe we can talk about this in detail sometime, but I really believe you are onto something. I have done a very lot of thinking about my own deconversion. After much self-analysis, I have concluded that subconsciously I had determined that christianity was not true before my conscious self was ready to accept the truth. In fact, once I consciously accepted that christianity was a false religion, I wrote a few pages to memorialize the experience. I called the paper, "A Terrible Truth." To me it was a terrible truth that the religion that I loved so much was not true. I found it earth-shattering. This struggle between my conscious self accepting the conclusion my subconscious mind had already come to was the source of a prolonged struggle. It may very well be the source of yours, too. If so, then I can really empathize with you because it reflects my own experience.

 

The words you wrote in response to my first twelve questions, were very well done. If I knew nothing more about you than your response to those questions, my conclusion would be that you are well past christianity and religiosity in general and there is no way you are bothered by anything at all about christianity. But then your answer to the thirteenth question revealed that you do still have some serious issues. It must be that on an adult intellectual level you accept the things you wrote, but on the level of that eleven year old child who was scared by The Omen, you are not convinced.

 

Can you place yourself back in the mindset of that eleven year old child and tell me what is bothering you Krissy?

[Kris]

Thanks for that-- and I do appreciate your wanting to help. One of the biggest things that I can tell you about my childhood-- that really does play a part in what I am dealing with now is that I had an overwelming sense that I had no one to turn to--and that I was truly alone. That is much the feeling that I have now. While I don't believe that the bible is true-- I am still afraid that for some stupid reason Revelation could come true (and if that was the case that it would probably be the only documentable biblical miracle known to man!!) and that I can't turn to god for help with this issue because he is the boogey man who is causing all of it to begin with!! And, the harsh reality is that I never really felt like going to church did anything for me anyway-- I always felt like a fake. If I went back to church tomorrow, it would be the same way. I was so relieved when I quit church, because I actually felt like I got to be me for the first time. I felt really guilty about that at first, but really grew to love that feeling.

[Overcame Faith]

Thanks for that-- and I do appreciate your wanting to help. One of the biggest things that I can tell you about my childhood-- that really does play a part in what I am dealing with now is that I had an overwelming sense that I had no one to turn to--and that I was truly alone. That is much the feeling that I have now. While I don't believe that the bible is true-- I am still afraid that for some stupid reason Revelation could come true (and if that was the case that it would probably be the only documentable biblical miracle known to man!!) and that I can't turn to god for help with this issue because he is the boogey man who is causing all of it to begin with!! And, the harsh reality is that I never really felt like going to church did anything for me anyway-- I always felt like a fake. If I went back to church tomorrow, it would be the same way. I was so relieved when I quit church, because I actually felt like I got to be me for the first time. I felt really guilty about that at first, but really grew to love that feeling.

 

Having no one to turn to as a child would be terrible. When I was a young child, I was very shy and clung to my mother. When she would take me to the park, I would hold onto her. And she was there for me. When I started the first grade, my mother walked me to school and I was so afraid when she had to leave me. But thankfully I adjusted.

 

Before my mom died a few years ago, I thanked her for taking the time with me to give me the support I needed as a small child. Mom told me many times that she was really surprised that I would do something so public as become a lawyer who had to speak publicly as a way of life. I told her it was her seeing to my needs as a young child that allowed me to overcome my shyness. If I had not gotten that from her, I doubt I would be trying cases in court now.

 

Your having the sense of needing someone to turn to as a child matches my own need. The difference is that I did have someone to turn to and it sounds like you did not. The good news is that now you are an obviously very intelligent adult who can work through this.

 

Does it bother you now that intellectually you know there is no god for you to turn to?

[Kris]

Truthfully, I makes me relieved. Like I said, I just never really saw god as a friend to begin with.

[Overcame Faith]

Truthfully, I makes me relieved. Like I said, I just never really saw god as a friend to begin with.

 

I'm glad you find this knowledge to be a relief. So do I and I did see him as a friend until I really began to study the bible after the fog of christianity had been lifted from my mind.

 

How do we expunge this wrathful and vicious god from your mind? Do you need intellectual arguments? Do you need some kind of personal testimonial from me or someone else? What would help? If it's within my power, I'll do what you ask.

[Kris]

Sorry-- I thought I had posted, but it did not take!

 

I always appreciate hearing what it was that finally made people say-- this is stupid! I am not going to beleive this any more-- sometimes it is finding biblical discrepencies, and other times it is just realizing that ones prayers were never really answered, but that life just ended up resolving itself one way or another. You may have said it before, but what was it that officially tipped the scales for you?

 

While I undstand logic, and am actually a big fan-- fear operates in an illogical mode, and that is what makes it so difficult to reason away. I plan to keep perusing this site to help me with my logical reasoning and will do my best to remind myself that the bible's prophecy track record is dismal at best-- so even though life may develop in a way that seems to have an allusion towards bible prophecy (such as microchips), it is just an allusion-- based on some people's interpetation!!

 

You may hear from me again if I have another dark day-- but I am really working hard on this, and am looking forward to moving on and enjoying my life!

[Overcame Faith]

You may have said it before, but what was it that officially tipped the scales for you?

 

It was the cumulation of a number of things. But I think it was primarily the fact that slowly over a number of years, the religion was changing me into a person that I really didn't want to be. I had gotten to the point that to find answers to life's issues, I would consult the bible first and other sources second. It got to where when I would meet strangers, they would automatically have me pegged as a conservative christian even before I would have any conversations of substance with them. And I wasn't quoting the bible at them either. I didn't do that unless someone asked me to. I guess it had just gotten into the essence of who I was.

 

I'll give you an example of how I had come to be the person I did not want to be. One day several years ago, we were having a discussion in the office about gay marriage. I made the statement that the purpose of marriage was to have children and to provide a home for the children. Since homosexual couples could not have children, then obviously, gay marriage did not fulfill the purpose of marriage. The lady with whom I was talking had married later in life when she was beyond childbearing years and so she had no children. She looked at me and asked, "Then you're saying that my marriage is not valid?"

 

I was stunned. The first thought that came into my head was, "The real reason I don't support gay marriage is because the bible teaches that homosexual activity is sinful and if the state sanctions it with a marriage license, it is sanctioning sinful activity." But I didn't say this to her. Rather, I apologized and told her that of course she had a valid marriage.

 

But here was the thing: I was not allowing myself to really think issues through. Instead, I was taking the bible and using it without question to form the basis for my views. The issue of gay marriage was only one example, there were many others, as well. By the way, once I shed Christianity from my life and began rethinking issues, gay marriage was the easiest one of all for me. With the bible behind me, I now see no justification for denying two consenting adults from marrying regardless of their gender.

 

Over time I think that my inner self rebelled against my conscious self's adherence to conservative christianity. I began to have these involuntary thoughts to the effect that Jesus was not the savior. These thoughts horrified me and I tried to suppress them, but I couldn't. They kept coming. Finally, after many tears and sessions with myself, I broke down and accepted what I knew was true. I knew that Jesus was not the Savior and that Christianity was a false religion. I cried for a long time after that revelation. I felt weak and shattered. I knew that I had come to the truth about Christianity, but I was saddened beyond measure by that terrible truth.

 

After I gathered myself together, I sat down at my computer and wrote the paper I called, "A Terrible Truth" in which I wrote for the first time that I accepted that Christianity was a false religion. At that time, I wrote three reasons which supported my revelation. They were:

 

1. That even though the Jews had been waiting on their Messiah for thousands of years, the fact that they as a group had not accepted Jesus obviously meant that he had not fulfilled the requirements set forth in the Old Testament to be the Messiah.

2. That Jesus had said that this generation would not pass before he would return and that many more generations had come and gone and yet Jesus had still not returned in glory. And I knew he never would.

3. That the geneology of Jesus as set forth in Matthew was vastly different from the geneology set forth in Luke. I knew that the explanation was that one was for Mary and one for Joseph, but I then saw that as balderdash.

 

In that writing, I vowed to continue my research into the Christian religion to confirm that I had made the right choice. And I did continue that research and wrote the results of my research. That is how I deal with issues. I write about them. I decided to write about the issues using nothing but the bible as my source. And I did so. I tackled issue after issue and came to the startling, but satisfying, conclusion that the entire bible was nothing more than myth and legend, and that included Jesus and the god of the bible. That led me to where I am today. Christianity is behind me and so is the god of the bible.

 

And to them I say, farewell.

 

But to you I say, don't be a stranger. If you ever want to discuss these things, just let me know. I'll be happy to do it with you. I really do not like to see people suffer through the fear caused by the false christian religion. And that includes you. Just know that you're not alone.

[OnceConvinced]

It was that end times stuff that was partly responsible for me losing my faith. (a small part of it, before any Christian reading this tries to make out it was a major aspect). Mainly because all the prophecies being made turned out to be a load of crock. In fact it was all proving to be a crock. None of it was happening the way they said it was.

 

And when you start to look at the preterest view points on it, that's certainly an eye opener. You start to realise that the Christians of the NT believed all that stuff was gonna happen in their life time. Paul in particular was adament Jesus's return was eminent.

 

A no brainer really. So far everyone who's predicted the end of the world has been completely and utterly wrong. In fact you'd have to be gullible to believe any of it

 

Another way of looking at it too is that it's all symbolic. That made more sense to me as a Christian. THe mark of the beast is not literal. It was a spiritual mark, which all depended on your standing with the malevolent one (God I'm talking about) And the anti-christ is a spirit, not an actual dictator who's going to rule the world.