Personal Definition of God

[willybilly30]

Iv been banned from groups before cause iv went to far in heated discussions

i hope this will be different.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

anybody up for burying the hatchet?

Im afraid im going to piss everyone off and get banned and hated by all

If I am not already

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Willy Billy... NO ONE IS MAD AT YOU!

 

Don't take this personally!

Feel free to say whatever you believe!

Refuse to be intimidated into changing your mind.

If you sincerely sense there is reason to change your mind, fine.

If not, don't.

I don't think one single person on here,

or in the world,

agrees entirely with one another!

That is what makes life interesting, IMO.

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[willybilly30]

Im glad to hear that

Im glad you all are not as sensitive as some people I have met

I have had fights like this before and I end up banned with no explanation

Id love to find a place were I can speak my mind

I do not mind people pointing out my goofy ideas

Of course, my first response might be defensive till I cool of and think about it.

That usually gets me in trouble

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

anybody up for burying the hatchet?

Im afraid im going to piss everyone off and get banned and hated by all

If I am not already

106625[/snapback]

 

Damn, dude. Take a pill.

 

This ain't the local Baptist Church. You are allowed to think here. If you have a goofy thought here, somebody's bound to bring it to your attention, but you're not gonna get excommunicated.

 

Nobody's got the slightest notion of banning you, man. You're fine.

 

Daniel's still here. What does that tell ya?

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[willybilly30]

What’s pantheism?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

But if theirs a god wouldn’t it be the universe? I see no other thing god could be

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That's is called Pantheism, that everything is God.

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[Ouroboros]

106949[/snapback]

It's cool to start seeing some Christians using their brain-noodles!

[Ouroboros]

Im glad to hear that

Im glad you all are not as sensitive as some people I have met

I have had fights like this before and I end up banned with no explanation

Id love to find a place were I can speak my mind

I do not mind people pointing out my goofy ideas

Of course, my first response might be defensive till I cool of and think about it.

That usually gets me in trouble

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One thing you have to understand though, is that you might get extremely heated argument from some people, and very soft arguments from others. This group consist of every kind of personality and belief you can imagine. It's actually a "miracle" that people so different can be under the same "roof" without the house burns up, or it ends in a complete shoot-out.

 

So, again, don't judge everyone from the viewpoint of the few. But still, you should read and think about what everyone is saying. They all have good and valid points from different perspectives.

 

 

-edit-

Spell check. Why do I have to find the errors when I read other people quoting me? It's so embarrassing!

[Mythra]

PANTHEISM

[Ouroboros]

What’s pantheism?

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"Pan" means, everything, everywhere, all-of-it.

"Theism" means, belief in God. (Theos=God)

 

It's the belief that everthing is God, God is everything.

Nothing is outside of God, and God is not outside anything.

 

The problem is that it pretty much do what Asimov said, it just renames the "Everything" word, to "God" instead.

 

It's just a new name to represent that same thing we already had a name for: which is "Everything".

 

So it pretty much doesn't change anything to call it God, since we already have a name for it.

[Eponymic]

Im glad to hear that

 

106957[/snapback]

One thing you have to understand though, is that you might get extremely heated argument from some people, and very soft arguments from others. This group consist of every kind of personality and belief you can imagine. It's actually a "miracle" that people so different can be under the same "roof" without the house burns up, or it ends in a complete shoot-out.

 

So, again, don't judge everyone from the viewpoint of the few. But still, you should read and think about what everyone is saying. They all have good a valid points from different perspectives.

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Darn straight!

[Ssel]

ALL of the related questions to who and why gradually become more clear after you are informed that in ancient Hebrew, there was no distinction between personal and inanimate and the word for "I am" was exactly the same word for "it is"

 

When Moses asked God why they should believe that he had really talked to the their God. God did not answer with a name, but a simple statement so that the family of Jacob would know it was their God.

 

"I am the I am"

 

"I am that which is"

 

"It is what it is"

 

which is more rational to identify something which could never be wrong?

 

Imagine Moses, knowing the way of the Hebrew (who said nothing of gods before they were enslaved by the Egyptians), facing all of those Egyptians who did all things in the name of this god or that, simply saying "Well, my "god" is above ALL of your silly gods, fore despite what any of your gods wish to be true "What IS is WHAT IS".. and I'll prove it.."

 

Realize that in every place that Christianity or Judaism grew, they had been worshipping gods and would very probably listen to nothing else...not until the Christian concept of "the truth will set you free" led to the formal pursuit of science (a pursuit of that which IS (via demonstration, not speculation).

[Amethyst]

That does not prove god don’t exist

 

By that argument, it doesn't prove that Allah, Anubis, Aphrodite, Apollo, Ares, Arianrhod, Artemis, Athena, Baldur, Bast, Brigid, Cerridwen, Demeter, Danu, Epona, Freya, Frigga, Geb, Hades, Hathor, Hecate, Hephaestus, Hermes, Hera, Hestia, Horus, Isis, Loki, Ma'at, Nepthys, Nut, Odin, Osiris, Poseidon, Ra, Rhiannon, Set, Thor, Thoth, and Zeus don't exist either. And that's not even a complete list of Pagan deities. Google them if you like.

[Ssel]

who was trying to prove that God doesn't exist?

[willybilly30]

That is true I should try to understand their views

I felt like I was being told to prove my views.

I cant prove it

Some of it I couldn’t understand.

[Amethyst]

You don't need to 'prove' anything, Willy. Just as long as you realize you can't. It's when people think they can prove something that's impossible to prove that is very annoying.

[willybilly30]

Maybe they do exist I do not know.

I do not know what all exists and what doesn’t

 

I agree with Socrates quote :

 

True knowledge exists in knowing that you know nothing. -- Socrates

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

That does not prove god don’t exist

 

By that argument, it doesn't prove that Allah, Anubis, Aphrodite, Apollo, Ares, Arianrhod, Artemis, Athena, Baldur, Bast, Brigid, Cerridwen, Demeter, Danu, Epona, Freya, Frigga, Geb, Hades, Hathor, Hecate, Hephaestus, Hermes, Hera, Hestia, Horus, Isis, Loki, Ma'at, Nepthys, Nut, Odin, Osiris, Poseidon, Ra, Rhiannon, Set, Thor, Thoth, and Zeus don't exist either. And that's not even a complete list of Pagan deities. Google them if you like.

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[Ssel]

The ancient Hebrew, so easily enslaved, wanders the dessert without great care. He humbly bows to the simple thought “what is, is what is” and accepts whatever he must endure. When asked “Who is the god of the Hebrew?” He answers “no god really, we simply accept what is. I guess you could say that our god is ‘What is’”

He is so easily enslaved by the proud passions and might of others, yet simply proclaims, “what is, is what is.” Such a simple thought inspires very little passion to fight yet in the long run, how could he ever have been said to be wrong? When all else has been proven in error in this small way or that, the humble Hebrew still stands, collecting what knowledge appeared to be accurate, and never found that his god had ever been truly challenged. “We endured the childish upbringing of Mankind with all of his foolish gods and superstitions. But he and we can now agree, “What is, is what is and will always be”.

 

The Hebrew seeks not to conquer but rather to merely let those in error fall.

And thus is delivered by his “God”, humbly defined to be something which could have never been wrong.

[Amethyst]

Maybe they do exist I do not know.

I do not know what all exists and what doesn’t

 

My point was just that it's a logical impossibility. Nobody can prove it, but people believed in all of those gods long ago. Some people still believe in them now. It's up to you what you want to believe, but Biblegod isn't the only deity out there. He's just the most popular one in the world right now. Times will change and there will be other popular deities, or perhaps very few people will be religious. Who knows?

[willybilly30]

Is their a god that is logically possible?

What makes it logically impossible?

I just cannot see anything that says there is no creator.

However, ill agree I cannot see anything saying there is

So all im left with is my ideas winch is based on others ideas I agree with

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Maybe they do exist I do not know.

I do not know what all exists and what doesn’t

 

My point was just that it's a logical impossibility. Nobody can prove it, but people believed in all of those gods long ago. Some people still believe in them now. It's up to you what you want to believe, but Biblegod isn't the only deity out there. He's just the most popular one in the world right now. Times will change and there will be other popular deities, or perhaps very few people will be religious. Who knows?

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[Ssel]

Is their a god that is logically possible?

What makes it logically impossible?

 

If someone took you off and showed you something and said "THAT is God"

What characteristics would "That" have to have for you to believe that it was, in fact God?

 

1) Define what "God" means

2) Find what you can point to and say "That must be it"

 

Until then, you can neither say yea nor nay

[SkepticOfBible]

How can a God that is good send people to hell?

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Other christians would reply that God is also justice, and the punishment for disbelieving in him is hell

 

 

 

1. Many, many Christians do not believe there is a hell. And those of us who feel differently than you could throw our own Bible verses and interpretations around.

 

It also means that you are ignoring as to what the bible says

 

Matt 12:30

He that is not with me is against me; and he that gathereth not with me scattereth abroad.

 

Mark 16:16

He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.

 

Jesus in his glorified Final Solution, will send out his army of drones to cleanse the world of anything that Jesus deems or defines as "wicked".

Naturally, unbelievers will be exterminated along with all the other unworthy human "weeds".

 

Matt 13:40-42

As therefore the tares(weeds) are gathered and burned in the fire; so shall it be in the end of this world.

The Son of man shall send forth his angels, and they shall gather out of his kingdom all things that offend, and them which do iniquity;

And shall cast them into a furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth.

 

Heb 2:3

How shall we escape if we ignore such a great salvation? This salvation, which was first announced by the Lord, was confirmed to us by those who heard him

 

John 3:36

Whoever believes in the Son has eternal life, but whoever rejects the Son will not see life, for God's wrath remains on him.

 

It is quite clear from the above verses, believe in christ and live or else suffer un eternal pain.

 

Chick's Take on Salvation

 

And the following articles clearly rebutt your position

 

Is it God's will that all people be saved?

 

Reality of Hell

 

 

2. Also, Jesus said he was the Alpa and Omega. If "good" is the Alpha and the Omega then where in all of the good from beginning to end is there room for a place of torture and pain?

 

If Jesus was the god described in the OT, he apparently had no problem telling his "chosen" people to do the following

 

1)Kill a man for working on a Sabbath

2)To rape women and kill pregnant women

3)To commit genocide against a race of people (including the livestock)

4)To practice slavery

 

 

1 Samuel 15:1

Samuel said to Saul, "I am the one Yahweh sent to anoint you king over his people Israel; so listen now to the message from Yahweh. 2 This is what Yahweh Almighty says: 'I will punish the Amalekites for what they did to Israel when they waylaid them as they came up from Egypt. 3 Now go, attack the Amalekites and totally destroy everything that belongs to them. Do not spare them; put to death men and women, children and infants, cattle and sheep, camels and donkeys.'"

 

Leviticus 25:44

'Your male and female slaves are to come from the nations around you; from them you may buy slaves.

 

Psalms 137:8-9

8 O Daughter of Babylon, doomed to destruction,

happy is he who repays you

for what you have done to us-

9 he who seizes your infants

and dashes them against the rocks.

 

2 Kings 8:12

 

12 "Why is my lord weeping?" asked Hazael.

"Because I know the harm you will do to the Israelites," he answered. "You will set fire to their fortified places, kill their young men with the sword, dash their little children to the ground, and rip open their pregnant women."

 

Hosea 13:16

The people of Samaria must bear their guilt, because they have rebelled against their God. They will fall by the sword; their little ones will be dashed to the ground, their pregnant women ripped open."

 

2 Kings 15:16

At that time Menahem, starting out from Tirzah, attacked Tiphsah and everyone in the city and its vicinity, because they refused to open their gates. He sacked Tiphsah and ripped open all the pregnant women.

 

If you call such a god as being good, well .....

[Ssel]

There are two forces which inspire devotion. One is fear and the other is love.

Fear is a force that repels. Love is a force that bonds.

 

 

When a prophet speaks for God to inspire devotion, he would be well advised to take which he inspires, fore no prophet speaks nor is recorded but to cause inspirational affect. If the prophet is speaking under the reign of a mighty church, then what but fear can he inspire because despite what words he uses, he is heard as to say “this is what we (the church) want and will support the doing of”. On the other hand, when he speaks as one of a gathering of loose people, he inspires hope when speaking for the might of their God.

 

Before judging “God” as good or evil, or just or unjust, consider who was speaking to whom and under exactly which circumstances.

Preach from the “left” side of your boat and you gather few, fore fear repels in all directions. Preach from the “right” side of your boat and you gather more, for love bonds.

 

But if you speak for God, you endanger yourself and all who hear you even if they are thousands of years away. Most especially if you don’t tell them exactly who “God” is.

[Ssel]

How can a God that is good send people to hell?

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The answer to the question of how God could possibly be a just and good God is available, but to truly understand anything, many pieces of the puzzle must be assembled. Learn of;

 

1) exactly what “Hell” truly meant

2) exactly what your “soul” is

3) from whence good and bad are defined

4) exactly what Satan truly is

5) exactly what God truly is

 

 

And then you will see the answer. Today it is very easy to get all of the wrong understandings of each piece of that puzzle. Everyone is willing to preach of their guess. You can only know that you have assembled the right pieces when you can finally clearly see the answer to the question.

 

If you don’t take the time to learn, but merely expect others to give you all of the answers, then have you not gotten out of your efforts as much as you have put into them? Impatient searching only yields distortions.

[Open_Minded]

It also means that you are ignoring as to what the bible says

 

Matt 12:30

He that is not with me is against me; and he that gathereth not with me scattereth abroad.

 

Mark 16:16

He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.

 

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Hello Pritishd:

 

Are you a literalist as well as Daniel? To be clear - It is possible to be a Christian and NOT read the Bible literally.

 

As mentioned in my first post - playing "I know the Bible better than you" will get no one anywhere. But, since you seem to want to play dueling Bible verses, you may want to look up a book written by Philip Gulley and James Mulholland. The title is If Grace Is True: Why God Will Save Every Person .

 

For the purposes of this discussion let me quote part of the book:

 

I believe our experiences with God can be trusted. This doesn't mean the Bible should be ignored. Thomas Talbott, in his book The Inescapable Love of God, that the New Testament is universalist. Though I find many of his interpretations of Scripture enlightening, I remain unconvinced. I believe the early church was as liable to diminish the grace of God as the church today.

 

The Scriptures listed below are not intended to be proof that the Bible, Jesus, or Paul believed all would be saved. I don't know. I do know there are biblical themes, stories, and verses that imply the salvation of all. These Scriptures have been ignored or discounted by most of Christianity. Commentaries insist they can't mean what they say.

 

Since I don't believe the Bible inerrant, I have no need either to harmonize every voice or to explain away every inconsistency. I am willing and able to say of many verses, "I don't believe that to be true." But I'm also excited the Bible isn't unanimous about the destiny of humanity. There are minority voices. Though some of them represent a Christocentric view, they all call into question the damnation of God's children.

 

I encourage those of you convinced the Bible is the inerrant word of God to examine and study these verses. You may remain unconvinced, but you can't ignore what you claim is without error. For those less committed to bilbical authority, I hope these verses allow you to reclaim a book full of truth.

 

And going deeper into the book the author sites his share of Bible verses that confirm his position (and mine).

 

Hebrew Scripture

 

Genesis 12:3 - All peoples on earth will be blessed through you.

 

Exodus 33:19 - I will have mercy on whom I have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I will have compassion.

 

Psalm 22:27 - All the ends of the earth will remember and turn to the LORD, and all the families of the nations will bow down before him.

 

Psalm 139:7-8 - Where can I go from your Spirit? Where can I flee from your presence? If I go up to the heavens, you are there; if I make my bed in the depths [sheol], you are there.

 

Isaiah 25:6-8 - On this mountain the Lord Almighty will prepare a feast of rich food for all peoples, a banquet of aged wine - the best of meats and finest of wines. On this mountain he will destroy the shroud that enfolds all peoples, the sheet that covers all nations; he will swallow up death forever. The Sovereign Lord will wipe away tears from all faces; he will remove the disgrace of his people from all the earth.

 

Jeremiah 31:33-34 - "This is the covenant I will make with the house of Israel after that time," declares the Lord. "I will put my law in their minds and write it on their hearts. I will be their God and they will be my people. NO longer will a man teach his neighbor, or a man his brother, saying, 'Know the Lord,' because they will all know me, from the least of them to the greatest," declares the Lord. "For I will forgive their wickedness and will remember their sins no more."

 

Hosea 11:9 - I will not carry out my fierce anger, nor will I turn and devastate Ephraim. For I am God, and not man - the Holy One among you. I will not come in wrath.

 

Joel 2:28 - I will pour out my Spirit on all people. Your sons and daughters will prophesy, your old men dream dreams, your young men will see visions.

 

 

Christian Scripture

 

Matthew 8:11 - I say to you that many will come from the east and the west, and will take their places at the feast with Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob in the kingdom of heaven.

 

Matthew 12:50 - Whoever does the will of my Father in heaven is my brother and sister and mother.

 

Matthew 18:14 - Your Father in heaven is not willing that any of these little ones should be lost.

 

Mark 11:17 - My house shall be called a house of prayer for all nations.

 

Luke 3:6 - All mankind will see God's salvation.

 

Luke 19:10 - The Son of Man came to seek and save what was lost.

 

John 1:9 - The true light that gives light to every man was coming into the world.

 

John 3:17 - God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but to save the world through him.

 

John 10:16 - I have other sheep that are not of this sheep pen. I must bring them also. They too will listen to my voice, and there shall be one flock and one shepherd.

 

John 12:32 - When I am lifted up, I will draw all men to myself.

 

John 12:47 - I did not come to judge the world, but to save it.

 

Acts 3:21 - He [Christ] must remain in heaven until the time comes for God to restore everything, as he promised long ago through his holy prophets.

 

Acts 10:34 - I now realize how true it is that God does not show favoritism, but accepts men from every nation who fear him and do what is right.

 

Romans 5:18 - Just as the result of one trespass was condemnation for all men, so also the result of one act of righteousness was justification that brings life to all men.

 

Romans 8:38-39 - I am convinced that neither death nor life, neither angels nor demons, neither the present nor the future, nor any powers, neither height nor depth, nor anything in all of creation, will be able to separate us from the love of God that is in Christ Jesus our Lord.

 

Ephesians 1:9-10 - He made know to us the mystery of his will according to his good pleasure, which he purposed in Christ, to be put into effect when the times will have reached their fulfillment - to bring all things in heaven and on earth together under one head, even Christ.

 

Colossians 1:19-20 - For God was pleased to have all his fullness dwell in him, and through him to reconcile to himself all things, whether things on earth or things in heaven, by making peace through his blood shed on the cross.

 

Titus 2:11 - For the grace of God that brings salvation has appeared to all men.

 

Revelation 21:25 - On no day will its [heaven's] gates be shut, for there will be no night there.

 

Pritishd, my point is NOT to get into a dueling match. You, and any other literalist (and you are writing as a literalist here) can take any one of the above Bible verses and turn it around to mean something entirely different. I stand by my original statement, playing "I know the Bible better than you" will get us no where. Like the author of If Grace is True, I feel no need to harmonize the conflicts of the Bible. I feel no need to defend a flawed theology. It is entirely possible for me, as a Christian, to look at certain Bible verses and given interpretations and simply say, "I disagree".

 

Within the context of this thread, I am interested in one thing. The one request I made of Daniel and am still seeking a response to follows:

Please respond from your heart. Jesus did not promise His disciples a Bible to be canonized 100s of years after his death - he promised His disciples a Counselor, the Holy Spirit to reside within them. To guide them from within their own soul. So, search your soul Daniel and just answer the question.

 

How can a God that is good send people to hell?....

[Open_Minded]

How can a God that is good send people to hell?

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The answer to the question of how God could possibly be a just and good God is available, but to truly understand anything, many pieces of the puzzle must be assembled. Learn of;

 

1) exactly what “Hell” truly meant

2) exactly what your “soul” is

3) from whence good and bad are defined

4) exactly what Satan truly is

5) exactly what God truly is

 

 

And then you will see the answer. Today it is very easy to get all of the wrong understandings of each piece of that puzzle. Everyone is willing to preach of their guess. You can only know that you have assembled the right pieces when you can finally clearly see the answer to the question.

 

If you don’t take the time to learn, but merely expect others to give you all of the answers, then have you not gotten out of your efforts as much as you have put into them? Impatient searching only yields distortions.

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Ssel,

 

You are right, no one knows the facts. And we will not know the facts until our own time comes.

 

But, we need to pay close attention to what we believe - because our beliefs impact the way we treat ourselves and other human beings. Daniel's ability to suggest that Amanda and others may go to hell because they do not see things the way he does stems directly from his belief in a "good God" that can somehow condemn people to an eternity of pain and torture. He needs to examine this belief closely, not because he can determine being right or wrong in a factual sense. But simply because this belief causes him to mistreat people. It goes against the only two commandments Jesus gave.

 

Love God (good) with all your heart.

Love your neighbor as yourself.

 

How can condemning others to eternal pain and torture be reconciled with the two greatest commandments, the commandments upon which all the law and the prophets depend?

 

And again, Jesus did NOT promise a bible to be canonized 100s of years after his death and resurrection. He promised a living spirit to dwell within our hearts as a Counselor. This is where we are to get our answers. The Bible - as sacred literature - is a guide. But it is the voice of the Counselor or God (good) that dwells within every human heart where the answers are to come from.

[mwc]

Is their a god that is logically possible?

Maybe.

 

What makes it logically impossible?

One that contradicts itself or is iconsistant with its definition. The example being thrown around is something that is all loving that shows opposite attributes.

 

I just cannot see anything that says there is no creator.

Ok. I like the idea of a god too. I'm comfortable with it and if this god created us then that's fine with me. If god didn't and we're here by chance then that's fine with me too. Why? Because I'm here so it really doesn't matter how I got here.

 

The bigger problem is that people like to assert that they have 100% absolute unquestionable truth and that if you aren't on board then "god" (their god) will do something to you or deny you something. What will *your* god do if you slip up or I don't buy into it? Does it matter to your god if anyone believes in it? Does it have something special for you (good or bad) after you die? Has your god revealed itself to anyone (including you)? Has your god setup rules that you are required (or highly encouraged) to follow? Does your god require/need anything from you or anyone else?

 

Don't worry if you don't have all (or any) of the answers to the above questions. I sure don't. I just have what I like to think and that is *my* god hasn't revealed itself (I have no idea if it's one god, many gods, what form it takes or anything else...I do not personally know my god(s) but if it(they) want me to know then I will know and if you are to know they I won't be the one to tell you but you will be contacted directly and given the same info I was given so that there's no confusion). So I could try to describe what I think to you but it would take forever and ultimately it would be pointless since I'd just be guessing anyway.

 

I also accept the real possibility that there is no god at all. Why not? After all if there isn't one and I die then it doesn't matter anyway (think back to 100 years before you were born...that nothingness you remember is exactly what you'll experience after you die if a god doesn't provide an afterlife). I just accept that I can neither prove nor disprove the existance of a god (or gods) but I like the idea for some reason. If a theology comes along that I can't poke holes into then it will definately get my attention. Until then I'm just agnostic (with my own personal slant).

 

However, ill agree I cannot see anything saying there is

So all im left with is my ideas winch is based on others ideas I agree with

This isn't true. You may base your views on what you know but I doubt they're 100% identical. You've taken what you've liked from others and compiled them into your own thing. Everyone does this to different degrees. I see no problem with it since you're willing to admit it.

 

From what I've read of your posts it seems your god is like many others which, in the original Star Wars movies (numbers 1-3 sort of screwed the concept), was the Force. Just some "force" that held everything together. An universal "energy" that is contained in all things and that without this energy all things would simply cease or fall apart. God is so we are. Your god is somehow in all things but all things are not god nor are they manifestations of god. Does this sound like what you're trying to communicate? If so you should look into something like the ancient Chinese religions (I think some Native American and Indian, like maybe Tantric, have this idea too).

 

mwc

[Mythra]

So, is that what we should do? Find the concept that appeals to us the most and believe that? Cool. I'm going with the 70 virgins afterlife.

 

Hey. Has anybody figured out why anesthesia puts the soul to sleep?