Hi My Name Is Aaron And Im A Christian How Are You Today/nite/morning/afternoon?

[BrotherJosh]

"Shadows" that were at the very pith of my being. The hidden and disowned shadows that frightened me, compelled me, obsesses me, annoyed me and infuriated me.

 

Those very shadows" it looked to God in Christ to cure when all along that is my job.

 

Embrace the shadows, in my opinion. We each carry a great character to do great good, and a character to do great harm. By only realizing and acknowledging ourselves, both good and bad, can we develop.

[blackpudd1n]

*sighs* maybe ur right Pudd i could start over, i spent so much time writing this big thing back to everyone and its not the fact i think it will get picked apart, i know it will lol, its just it seems less personal ya know? plus i waited so long it lost its flow. i like Pudds idea i may just pop a questions discuss it for awhile then move to the next question after i admit i doubt know. And i think its okay to say, " i dont know" i just dont have the answer at that time and can continue to search. but if i dont know means im an idiot i dont think thats fair, there are many things scientists dont know and dont have the answer for yet, its natrual people are always finding new evidence about the world as the years go by, but who has perfect knowledge but God? I have to play a bit of an atheist advocate for a bit here, i remember before i became a christian i would question a christian claims they send me to an article, and then then i question them about something on that article, they send me to another link, Really? why cant you tell me out of your mouth your belief if you understand it? if you dont then at last say you have a partial understanding instead of claiming what you say as foolproof.

 

sadly though, when i first became a christian after my athest experiences, i felt like i had all the answers, i did the same thing i guess it makes sense in my mind and when someone exploits a hole, instead of saying i dont know, i threw out random stuff, that dug my hole deeper. So after couple years i learned a new way, i try to answer the best i can, and say this is all i have and this is what i believe so far. If i get attacked for saying that, then thats between them and God or them and their self esteem. Cuz im an honest person trying to grow, and im still working on approaches

 

So next week i will just ask questions or propose an idea and we can discuss it that way. On break at work, before i depart.

 

I would like to Formally apologize to everyone, I came in here initially with trying to get A-HA! moment, i was sadly mistaken to make such attempt, although i never wanted to dehuminize, belittle, or disrespect anyone, i honestly didnt know how to approach a website with atheists i have only dealt with my friends in person. Regardless though of whether i knew or not, it didnt change the fact i offended people here and for that i apologize. God said it best "Ignorance will produce it's own offspring" I like this site alot it challenges me to search for truth and think critically about ym beleif and what im saying. Im now late for work. Thanks for your time, hopefully i wont get fired so i can keep the internet on. That is all. Much love. Aaron

 

I can't speak for everyone, but I am happy to let you off the hook with your long response and just move into questions and answers. It seems a couple of others would be happy to do the same, too. There are a lot of posts to respond to here, and I can understand if you are overwhelmed by it all. And, of course, I think we can all appreciate that you have a life and responsibilities outside of the forum. At the moment, I have a lot of time of my hands because I am unwell and waiting on an operation.

 

The forum isn't going to go away. Even if we have a glitch with the forum, or lose it completely for whatever reason, it will come back. You are putting a lot of pressure on yourself; why not be a little kind to yourself?

 

Could other forum members please indicate if they are okay with Aaron abandoning his novel and just moving into asking questions of us?

[Ouroboros]

 

I think Ouroboros was making a joke. Christians use the No True Scotsman fallacy because they can't handle the truth that Christianity can fail some people. However atheists are a much more diverse and less organized

Every joke has some truth to it.

[London]

I'm right there with you BP. Abandon the novel and discuss one question at a time. Start a new thread for the question and lets dump this tired old thread.

 

Good for you DJ for realizing that there are too many things going on in life right now to answer every post in this thread.

 

Start fresh, start new.

 

I did want to comment on what others have said. I believe that it is true that when you have accepted that there are no gods of any kind what-so-ever, you really cannot go back to believing in any myths of any kind. You would have to really be broken in life to go back to that. And what ever trauma you experienced that drug you back to mythology should have been treated by a doctor first.

 

Barring any major trauma in life, no sane person would ever go back to praising a zombie who never existed.

 

I joke a lot about Zeus and many other Greco-Roman gods but I don't believe in any of it. It makes no difference what myth you worship, they are all exactly the same thing, imagination put on a pedestal and made sacred.

 

Why would you lie to yourself??? What is the myth replacing in your life? Fill that empty space with something healthy and realistic.

[LivingLife]

The concept of an atheist becoming an xian IMO is flawed. If I take my personal experience, I rejected gawd at age 16 but really did not know for certain as I did not have the knowledge then that I have now. The gawd factor played no part in my life till 25ish when I started wondering again.

 

The indoctrination was there. For me to cuss using jesus fucking christ was a no biggie. I was thus godless but not an atheist.

 

FF to deconversion, I now know there is no god and all the history of the church and such is all BS, man made and failing the new sniff test. In my earlier state of gawdlessness, the right buttons just needed to be pressed and depending on the company I could side with theists and atheists equally well.

 

Thus I support the concept of not a true atheist as not being a no true Scotsman fallacy. "True atheism™" comes with knowledge and not b/c you merely find a few inconsistencies in the babble or see hypocrisy in action. Some of the younger atheists here may still be in a vulnerable mode. In my case tradition and the advent of kids was the root cause for sucking me back into religion, christenings and the like. I got married in church as a non believer/heathen (it was not important) wife wanted church wedding and I was not opposed. For me a court visit would have been the same but women have this "dream" so you go along with it.

 

Hence I always look at these claims of being a former atheist with a raised eyebrow.

 

Rebellion =/= atheism.

[JoeCoastie]

I totally hear you there livinglife. Though there may be a few true atheists to go Christian, just about all of their stories are total bollocks. This crazy guy started walking with me and started telling me about how he used to be an atheist... "And then there I was stuck on the highway bible in hand saying to god, If you help me out here I'll believe."

"Wait, WAIT... You mean you were an atheist, but you were carrying around a bible and praying for a ride? ... I think we're done here."

[LivingLife]

The majority of atheists were born into religious homes and with the US as it was here back in the apartheid days, you were privy to xian BS on TV and on the radio. You cannot really NOT be exposed to it if you live in a predominantly xian country.

 

Language and tradition played a big role here too with the majority being Dutch Reformed. The old days, there used to be a service of some random church and the TV stations made the rounds and all the "nice" churches got a turn and the congregants would dress up to the nines an attend. The nest week, the church would be like 50% less folk.

 

Only when we got satellite TV did we see the woos doing their stuff and seeing the likes of the TBN clowns with our evangelical woos getting regular exposure on Sunday's programming.

[London]

Rebellion =/= atheism.

Totally agree!!

 

 

I totally hear you there livinglife. Though there may be a few true atheists to go Christian, just about all of their stories are total bollocks. This crazy guy started walking with me and started telling me about how he used to be an atheist... "And then there I was stuck on the highway bible in hand saying to god, If you help me out here I'll believe."

"Wait, WAIT... You mean you were an atheist, but you were carrying around a bible and praying for a ride? ... I think we're done here."

 

Well gee Joe, I thought all atheists carried a bible around.

 

Some xians are so stupid that they think we are not going to question that. And it cracks me up that he thinks we talk to god? I never talk to god. I talk to myself, but mostly because I get better answers from myself compared to god.

[Destinyjesus3000]

Ouch, Can i not speak genuinely about anything and it not be be taken as sincere while everyone else can do it when they give a story? Eh, I’m a bit hurt : ( but hey i took the risk joining this site so that is only my fault to blame. granted, i understand the confusion as you all have explained, but i am also confused, if a Christian says someone wasn’t really an atheist to begin with they get attacked like a piece of bacon in fish bowl full of piranhas for thinking such a thing because they dont know the extent of that persons life and what they went through, can this not be applied to me also? but how is it when i say what i said, i should be saying the same thing you guys would tell a Christian who denied you being an atheist to start. I personally believe atheists are converted to Christians by the power of God, but since the power of God is unbelievable, its not accepted, therefore an atheist to Christian conversion is illogical. However, i agree with you to some degree, but I see perhaps there was a misunderstanding of the term atheist in my own vocabulary usage of the term, I in no way shape or form tried to used it as a secret motive action, im a firm believer of being honest and showing integrity and different LEVELS of atheism i go by the dictionary definition "a person who denies or disbelieves the existence of a supreme being or beings." I can spare the long testimony, but basically didnt believe, and then multiple events happen over the coarse of years, 7yrs to be exact from 2003 to 2010. In that time period I was an atheist, in 2010 after the collective of events I began to question my life, thinking back on what I used to believe. No single person could experience every argument ever conceived, in fact this leads me to believe that we should come to people with different beliefs with an open mind so that we can learn and observe, that’s why me, a christian, is here talking with atheists, that we don’t make the same mistakes, beause we don’t live long enough to make all of them. Can a fan know a celebrity just by reading her biography? or If a man meets a woman, and he says heyyyy there pretty lady, how can a guy like me get a girl like you? And the woman give him 10pages worth of stuff. Could he read all that in one sitting and then come back to her and know her from inside out? I doubt that, its much deeper than that and it takes time, because heck we don’t even understand ourselves sometimes, or maybe that’s just me, because I don’t know why im here anymore when I thought I knew, now im not so sure, if I choose not to decide, did I make a choice? how long does it take to know someone anyway? In my opinion I think it takes awhile, because people change as they grow. For this reason for anyone to say I wasn’t who I said I was in a short time span I don’t think that’s fair. This is a bit random but I have christian friends who fake the whole thing they don’t realize, going to church or reading the bible doesn’t make you a christian no more than standing in a garage makes you a car. Religion vs relationship, plays a crucial role in that, but that wll start another topic. Understand that A lot of My friends, are atheists about 80% of them and I have to be careful on what I put on facebook because I honor them, and I used to be with them but we remained friends, my values have always been intact, for this reason when I say I used to be like you, I mean an atheist can be well mannered, happy, loving, caring respectful just like anybody else, regardless of religion. I seen some good people here, even though I been here a short time, thanks for those who have recognized my sincerity as I have yours, but I’m starting get another vibe, I try to use my crappy dry humor and genuine responses and I still get pooped on. Im sorry, truly sorry, but I will be taking a break for awhile for this site, I was ready to respond, now im a hypocrite because now I cant, im not leaving because I cant handle truth or cant respond, I wlasys respond the best I can and say I don’t know when I don’t have an answer there is nothing to be afraid of, hence why I never feel like I am out of my league, because I view us all the same, but I want to grow here, learn here, question my faith not run from opposition of facts, but what drove me away is inconsiderateness if that’s even a word of my responses, I tried, I truly did, apologizing, genuine responses, humor and casual responses wasn’t enough, but unfortunately this is the end, I wish unconditional acceptance was real and more people looking for honest discussion. Thanks Pudd for your defense earlier, Thanks Tealeaf for you vast knowledge, im sorry it couldn’t get back to you, perhaps I will return after marriage. Pudd, Tealeaf and anyone else i missed who saw Me for me, i wish we had more people like you guys and less people like most people. Well, Look me up on facebook Aaron Robinson I can pursue a casual msg there. and i think i will go with the Ps3 thanks for the input : ) October 6, 2012 is the date by the way, its time i set my foucs on planning for now. Good luck to all. I leave you with this....If a Robot, does the Robot, would it still be a Robot or just dancing?

[London]

LOL Aaron, it would be a dancing robot doing the robot. Good one!

 

Aaron, you need to understand that THIS website is full of people who have been harmed to varying degrees by religion. You are in the enemy camp. The outlook was not good even before you found this place. So just know, if you plan to stick around, it's not gonna be easy.

 

While you are on break from here, check out this website http://truth-saves.com/ it might give you a different view on how non xians (christians) think.

 

If you come back, great. If you don't, I wish you well mr. DJ!

[LivingLife]

Ouch, Can i not speak genuinely about anything and it not be be taken as sincere while everyone else can do it when they give a story? Eh, I’m a bit hurt : ( but hey i took the risk joining this site so that is only my fault to blame. granted, i understand the confusion as you all have explained, but i am also confused, if a Christian says someone wasn’t really an atheist to begin with they get attacked like a piece of bacon in fish bowl full of piranhas for thinking such a thing because they dont know the extent of that persons life and what they went through, can this not be applied to me also? but how is it when i say what i said, i should be saying the same thing you guys would tell a Christian who denied you being an atheist to start.

The bell of atheism cannot be unrung, even your bible tells you that if you bothered to study it.

I personally believe atheists are converted to Christians by the power of God, but since the power of God is unbelievable, its not accepted, therefore an atheist to Christian conversion is illogical. However, i agree with you to some degree, but I see perhaps there was a misunderstanding of the term atheist in my own vocabulary usage of the term, I in no way shape or form tried to used it as a secret motive action, im a firm believer of being honest and showing integrity and different LEVELS of atheism i go by the dictionary definition "a person who denies or disbelieves the existence of a supreme being or beings."

It goes deeper in the knowledge that there are no god(s) Even so, any atheist will still leave the smallest percentage of any god revealing itself in 3D in an unequivocal manner not just warm fuzzies. We atheists know what causes warm fuzzies and that is not god.

I can spare the long testimony, but basically didnt believe, and then multiple events happen over the coarse of years, 7yrs to be exact from 2003 to 2010. In that time period I was an atheist, in 2010 after the collective of events I began to question my life, thinking back on what I used to believe.

You were in rebellion and not an atheist. You have not studied the falsity of religion and the origins of myths and the bible have you?

No single person could experience every argument ever conceived, in fact this leads me to believe that we should come to people with different beliefs with an open mind so that we can learn and observe, that’s why me, a christian, is here talking with atheists, that we don’t make the same mistakes, beause we don’t live long enough to make all of them.

But collectively we have and the extimonies are all very similar just like the conversion stories are similar.

Can a fan know a celebrity just by reading her biography? or If a man meets a woman, and he says heyyyy there pretty lady, how can a guy like me get a girl like you? And the woman give him 10pages worth of stuff. Could he read all that in one sitting and then come back to her and know her from inside out? I doubt that, its much deeper than that and it takes time, because heck we don’t even understand ourselves sometimes, or maybe that’s just me, because I don’t know why im here anymore when I thought I knew, now im not so sure, if I choose not to decide, did I make a choice? how long does it take to know someone anyway? In my opinion I think it takes awhile, because people change as they grow. For this reason for anyone to say I wasn’t who I said I was in a short time span I don’t think that’s fair.

It is fair as we see the patterns and recognise them. You were duped in a time of vulnerability. Your god is powerless as he/it only exists in your head. There is no cosmic sky daddy.

This is a bit random but I have christian friends who fake the whole thing they don’t realize, going to church or reading the bible doesn’t make you a christian no more than standing in a garage makes you a car.

This is the lamest cop out al xians espouse. Translated means, they do not do it the way I do it thus the are not true xians. That is a no true Scotsman's fallacy.

Religion vs relationship, plays a crucial role in that, but that wll start another topic.

You cannot have a relationship with anything intangible, this relationship is merely you having a relationship with yourself. God is not real except in your head.

Understand that A lot of My friends, are atheists about 80% of them and I have to be careful on what I put on facebook because I honor them, and I used to be with them but we remained friends, my values have always been intact, for this reason when I say I used to be like you, I mean an atheist can be well mannered, happy, loving, caring respectful just like anybody else, regardless of religion. I seen some good people here, even though I been here a short time, thanks for those who have recognized my sincerity as I have yours, but I’m starting get another vibe, I try to use my crappy dry humor and genuine responses and I still get pooped on.

Your friends are probably not really atheists, they are simply irreligious and would likely still self ID as xian on a census. Now that you mention it, it does confirm what many of us say in that these self ID xians are majority non religious and probably attend church for the three atched events.

 

Hatched - christenings

Matched - weddings

Dispatched - funerals

 

Im sorry, truly sorry, but I will be taking a break for awhile for this site, I was ready to respond, now im a hypocrite because now I cant, im not leaving because I cant handle truth or cant respond, I wlasys respond the best I can and say I don’t know when I don’t have an answer there is nothing to be afraid of, hence why I never feel like I am out of my league, because I view us all the same, but I want to grow here, learn here, question my faith not run from opposition of facts, but what drove me away is inconsiderateness if that’s even a word of my responses, I tried, I truly did, apologizing, genuine responses, humor and casual responses wasn’t enough, but unfortunately this is the end, I wish unconditional acceptance was real and more people looking for honest discussion.

There is no unconditional acceptance for folk that refer to us as unsaved. Your entry got you lambasted and rightly so. If you had lurked and read up a bit, you probably would not have signed up or would have tried a different approach.

Thanks Pudd for your defense earlier, Thanks Tealeaf for you vast knowledge, im sorry it couldn’t get back to you, perhaps I will return after marriage. Pudd, Tealeaf and anyone else i missed who saw Me for me, i wish we had more people like you guys and less people like most people. Well, Look me up on facebook Aaron Robinson I can pursue a casual msg there. and i think i will go with the Ps3 thanks for the input : ) October 6, 2012 is the date by the way, its time i set my foucs on planning for now. Good luck to all. I leave you with this....If a Robot, does the Robot, would it still be a Robot or just dancing?

You are probably a nice person (someone agreed to marry you ) but you lack knowledge of folk here and how we think and our experiences. This post of yours was special pleading for your case but it really is not that special. You are still young in comparison to many folk here.

 

You better sort out your beliefs before kiddies come along. Plenty folk here where one spouse deconverts leads to problems later on and esp. with kiddies.

[Realist]

Ouch, Can i not speak genuinely about anything and it not be be taken as sincere while everyone else can do it when they give a story? Eh, I’m a bit hurt : ( but hey i took the risk joining this site so that is only my fault to blame. granted, i understand the confusion as you all have explained, but i am also confused, if a Christian says someone wasn’t really an atheist to begin with they get attacked like a piece of bacon in fish bowl full of piranhas for thinking such a thing because they dont know the extent of that persons life and what they went through, can this not be applied to me also? but how is it when i say what i said, i should be saying the same thing you guys would tell a Christian who denied you being an atheist to start. I personally believe atheists are converted to Christians by the power of God, but since the power of God is unbelievable, its not accepted, therefore an atheist to Christian conversion is illogical. However, i agree with you to some degree, but I see perhaps there was a misunderstanding of the term atheist in my own vocabulary usage of the term, I in no way shape or form tried to used it as a secret motive action, im a firm believer of being honest and showing integrity and different LEVELS of atheism i go by the dictionary definition "a person who denies or disbelieves the existence of a supreme being or beings." I can spare the long testimony, but basically didnt believe, and then multiple events happen over the coarse of years, 7yrs to be exact from 2003 to 2010. In that time period I was an atheist, in 2010 after the collective of events I began to question my life, thinking back on what I used to believe. No single person could experience every argument ever conceived, in fact this leads me to believe that we should come to people with different beliefs with an open mind so that we can learn and observe, that’s why me, a christian, is here talking with atheists, that we don’t make the same mistakes, beause we don’t live long enough to make all of them. Can a fan know a celebrity just by reading her biography? or If a man meets a woman, and he says heyyyy there pretty lady, how can a guy like me get a girl like you? And the woman give him 10pages worth of stuff. Could he read all that in one sitting and then come back to her and know her from inside out? I doubt that, its much deeper than that and it takes time, because heck we don’t even understand ourselves sometimes, or maybe that’s just me, because I don’t know why im here anymore when I thought I knew, now im not so sure, if I choose not to decide, did I make a choice? how long does it take to know someone anyway? In my opinion I think it takes awhile, because people change as they grow. For this reason for anyone to say I wasn’t who I said I was in a short time span I don’t think that’s fair. This is a bit random but I have christian friends who fake the whole thing they don’t realize, going to church or reading the bible doesn’t make you a christian no more than standing in a garage makes you a car. Religion vs relationship, plays a crucial role in that, but that wll start another topic. Understand that A lot of My friends, are atheists about 80% of them and I have to be careful on what I put on facebook because I honor them, and I used to be with them but we remained friends, my values have always been intact, for this reason when I say I used to be like you, I mean an atheist can be well mannered, happy, loving, caring respectful just like anybody else, regardless of religion. I seen some good people here, even though I been here a short time, thanks for those who have recognized my sincerity as I have yours, but I’m starting get another vibe, I try to use my crappy dry humor and genuine responses and I still get pooped on. Im sorry, truly sorry, but I will be taking a break for awhile for this site, I was ready to respond, now im a hypocrite because now I cant, im not leaving because I cant handle truth or cant respond, I wlasys respond the best I can and say I don’t know when I don’t have an answer there is nothing to be afraid of, hence why I never feel like I am out of my league, because I view us all the same, but I want to grow here, learn here, question my faith not run from opposition of facts, but what drove me away is inconsiderateness if that’s even a word of my responses, I tried, I truly did, apologizing, genuine responses, humor and casual responses wasn’t enough, but unfortunately this is the end, I wish unconditional acceptance was real and more people looking for honest discussion. Thanks Pudd for your defense earlier, Thanks Tealeaf for you vast knowledge, im sorry it couldn’t get back to you, perhaps I will return after marriage. Pudd, Tealeaf and anyone else i missed who saw Me for me, i wish we had more people like you guys and less people like most people. Well, Look me up on facebook Aaron Robinson I can pursue a casual msg there. and i think i will go with the Ps3 thanks for the input : ) October 6, 2012 is the date by the way, its time i set my foucs on planning for now. Good luck to all. I leave you with this....If a Robot, does the Robot, would it still be a Robot or just dancing?

 

... so tell me then Aaron? What's the difference between this an you coming on this site and making the statement

 

"Why Are Athiests Afraid Of Hell, Yet They Dont Believe In It?"

 

With approx 38000 demoninations of christianity, I can understand why the label of "you were never a true" christian exists. Given the fact it is the most bastardised religion on this planet it leaves itself wide open to the individual's interpretation!

The statement of a "true atheist" is rather a lot less open to individual interpretation!

 

I do not think you were driven away by anyone! I think you just found the going too tough and found an appropriate time to get out! After all your profile statement made it quite clear why you were here:

 

"A follower of Christ, a firm believer that it is my duty to spread the word."

 

You have obviously not quite had the pulpit to preach from you thought you were going to have!

[Antlerman]

I'm going to have to learn this one on my own I think A. The consensus is with you from those I have confided. I don't know that I have seen a down side yet, rather the opposite. Doing this for Lent....I shall let you know how it ends.

 

What diligent, sincere, prolonged spiritual practice does for me is to get me in touch with my alienated and inauthentic feelings--those feelings that make me so incredibly, exuberantly, selflessly and lovingly inauthentic.

 

Spiritual practice can take you there only you can own, transcend and include each stage of self development.

 

...

 

 

The Church in my humble and naive opinion is afraid of Wisdom. It opted instead for simple, concrete creeds. Yet it was through Christian contemplative praxis I found life and lost my fundamental Christian faith. It was much too exclusive.

This comes straight to what I was hinting at with End3 when I referred to his distant and fading peak experience he had, how that those moments open us to something inside ourselves through what can be highly symbolic manifestation (the subtle realm); you 'see' the Christ, Krishna, a Bodhisattva, etc. Within that moment a huge amount of insight blasts through the fog, into our waking conscious awareness. But then it begins to fade and dim over time.

 

Here's the point End that I was getting at and what Asanerman just stated. Christianity has no Yoga. What that means is it externalizes the whole affair and has no practices in its mainline teachings or disciplines that puts the practitioner head-on into the path of such enlightenment experiences. It waits and prays for these random moments to just happen, which of course rarely will. All you do is try to recall what that experience was like, and try to remember that place where for that brief moment "all things were different". But you can't reason your way back to that place. You have to practice being in that exact place directly. You have to put yourself in the path of that, do what will open you to that.

 

In a single word, you have to practice meditation. What profound enlightenment experience I had that sent me down this path 30 years ago, I now experience on a daily basis, but with more light and knowledge revealed. It is just as Asanerman says in learning about yourself in ways that just sitting and thinking about yourself, trying to analyze yourself through critical reason, etc, can never begin to reveal. You may be able through years and years of psychotherapy begin to penetrate perhaps a little of this, but with this, it is very immediate and direct. It is in a single word, transformative. In short, don't be stuck embedded in that mess you see as yourself, but to learn to see that as something that you simply work with. As those emotions of anger arise, you simply recognize them for what they are and you stop identifying with them. As such, you become the master of them, and not mastered by them, as one example.

 

I honestly believe that the more you go into that place that you once experienced, you will begin to see a whole lot, if not most all of the facades or illusions about 'truth and reality' begin to take on a whole new level of understanding you simply could not see when you are outside of that merely reasoning about it. There is a reason it is called transrational. It includes, but transcends reason. It doesn't violate it. You begin to see that how you saw Christ in your experience, will frankly become 'more than Christ' as you begin to identify directly with it in yourself. You 'become Christ' (or whatever archetypal form arises for you), at which point then, and only then do you have any vantage point of understanding that allows you to speak from a position of actual knowledge. All the rest, all the theologies and metaphysics, are simply mental speculations about "God". The result of that is a full, head-on translation of the world into personal transformation of who you are.

 

Is some of this in your scriptures? Yes, actually, but it isn't anything I've ever seen taught. It is the Wisdom tradition part of Christianity, that is replaced by the Religion part of it. 99% of its practitioners are embedded in (self-identifying) in the religion aspects of it, the exoteric experience "God out there, up there; me in here, down here" . Less than one percent might actually transcend the religion itself into actually "knowing God". Are you the 1%, or the 99%?

 

BTW, I'd love to hear DestinyJesus's impression of this.

[MrsRoper]

If Aaron says he was an atheist before he was a Christian, I accept how he wants to define himself. I think it is possible for there to be varying degrees of atheism. It is possible that he was unchurched, had no experience with religion and therefore considered himself an atheist. He was a person without a God, and now he is a person with a personal God who practices Christianity.

 

I think Aaron started this thread and naively dished it out to us by labeling us unbelievers & unsaved. He was clueless to the fact that these words trigger deep pain in us from the years we were mentally & emotionally abused by the Church. And we knowingly dished it back. I was confused by his first post here and really thought he was a troll.

 

I think he came here to spar with us because he thought it would strengthen his faith, but instead his feelings have been hurt, and now he is withdrawing. Didn't he say he has only been a Christian since 2010? We have plenty more years of experience within Christianity & without Christianity. I think we can all afford (including me) to be more generous with him. Christianity is so personal, is it possible to attack his beliefs without attacking his person?

 

Aaron, you posted much, and yet I still feel like we haven't discussed your original question regarding morality. A few posters responded specifically to that, I think You've made proud declarations that you can take the heat & that your here to stay. Then you've said I've been treated like shit and I'm taking a break. Maybe make it less personal. Follow Pudd's advice and just post a simple question when you have one, refrain from using trigger words like unsaved, etc...And if someone hurts your feelings, address that person and the specific comment directly.

 

[Akheia]

Aaron, you don't seem like a horrible guy, and I certainly wish you well wherever you end up. I just don't think you were ready for this. You had a bunch of canned apologetics you'd heard that sounded good to anybody lacking experience in critical thinking, and thought you could show up and be our Magic Christian who'd make us see da light. We just hadn't ever heard the gospel like you could tell it, you seemed to think. And these arguments had worked so well on you, so surely anybody would be persuaded. Christians are a very forgiving audience. I know from experience that they'll buy any fish story they hear if it's coming from a guy with a Bible in his hand. If your friends got the same education you did, they probably aren't very skilled in that kind of critical thinking either, so that's not a good place to really see your religion's flaws.

 

You remind me of this time my Evil Ex entered a Go tournament at our city's Japanese Cultural Center, thinking that he'd be ranked a Dan at least. His reasoning? He'd gotten good enough to kick the ass of the Go simulator on our little Mac LC and it said that if you could do that, you were a 1 Dan. That was his expectation, that he'd be their Magic Caucasian who'd come in and be this awesome Go hero and be hailed as some gaijin wunderkinder by these crusty old guys who'd, alas, played for years without benefit of a Mac. The reality? He got his ass kicked by an 9 year old girl in pigtails and a frilly dress, and was given a 30 kyu rating (in other words, about the worst rank; it goes 30-1kyu, then 1+ Dan). At least he ate his humble pie and learned from the experience.

 

Instead of trying to be our Magic Christian, why don't you hang out and just learn? If your God is real, he can handle you learning why these arguments that converted you were so lame and easily refuted. I also agree this is a critical time for you to examine your faith, what with the wedding coming up. You were more of a backslider than an atheist, from your own testimony, and you may find that once you really start to think critically about it, you may find yourself diving deep down the same rabbit hole we did.

[mymistake]

So that is why we use paragraphs. I see it now. Thanks for demonstrating.

[Guest end3]

Strange to say it end, but it was through contemplative practices such as the observance of Lent that my hidden and disowned subjective impulses became real.

 

"Shadows" that were at the very pith of my being. The hidden and disowned shadows that frightened me, compelled me, obsesses me, annoyed me and infuriated me.

 

Those very shadows" it looked to God in Christ to cure when all along that is my job.

 

I appreciate this. Please let me give you a few brief thoughts. As I had expressed during my noteable "trauma" the other day, there may have existed a the person you speak of (if I am understanding you correctly), when I was very young. I don't remember that person except for a few good thoughts. What I am now is an effort to chop down a tree that was rooted and grew for 25 years of my 46.....only discovering that tree about two years ago. And did you see the tree stand up a few days ago? The tree that you said was killing you? People can't live and have no life with that tree. And the sad thing.....I excel in that. The music that sometimes makes me feel the strongest is Eminem's rap that talkes about trying to disown hate but loving it in the same breath.

 

My fears, i.e. shadows, are fears of letting that tree stand and losing everthing that is alive to me.....specifically my children and wife. Very specifically, the tree that grew was a result of me being hurt when my father divorced my mother and left. That hurt, fear, etc. turned into anger and then fruited with hate. So you see, the Spiritual me that you and AM speak of, again, if I am understanding, was lost, or damn near dead. And for me, thanks be to Christ and the mechanism that is the story, He/it saves me from myself. In that, I am able to use my "wierdness", my abilites for insight, as a reborn person that was that lost child.

 

So I see it as a method for authenticity rather than.

 

I sincerely hope that I did not misunderstand. I shall read your post again and also AM's subsequent post and see if I understand them the same way.

Blessings,

 

Edit: The fear is what drives me to "see". The fear also makes me physically cold. I start shaking and have to go sit in a tub of hot water to quit.

 

And, the kicker. there are so many people that think my views are so out there that they just look at me with a puzzled expression. I have been lately questioning myself.

 

And I am somehow suppose to function on a nominative level to appease the masses. Reader's Digest had a recent article, "normal or nuts". I'm starting to think the latter, but my ego won't let me.....lol.

[Thackerie]

TL;DR — HUMONGOUS WALL OF TEXT

 

For the love of your god, PLEEEEEEEEZE put long posts into paragraphs, with a solid return after each to create a line of space between paragraphs. I'm not trying to put you down or hurt your feelings, but a big solid wall of text is just too hard to read.

 

EDIT: Now I see he's "done" with this site. Missed that in his post; it was simply too daunting to try to get through those several inches of type. Oh. Well.

[Antlerman]

Strange to say it end, but it was through contemplative practices such as the observance of Lent that my hidden and disowned subjective impulses became real.

 

"Shadows" that were at the very pith of my being. The hidden and disowned shadows that frightened me, compelled me, obsesses me, annoyed me and infuriated me.

 

Those very shadows" it looked to God in Christ to cure when all along that is my job.

 

I appreciate this. Please let me give you a few brief thoughts. As I had expressed during my noteable "trauma" the other day, there may have existed a the person you speak of (if I am understanding you correctly), when I was very young. I don't remember that person except for a few good thoughts. What I am now is an effort to chop down a tree that was rooted and grew for 25 years of my 46.....only discovering that tree about two years ago. And did you see the tree stand up a few days ago? The tree that you said was killing you? People can't live and have no life with that tree. And the sad thing.....I excel in that. The music that sometimes makes me feel the strongest is Eminem's rap that talkes about trying to disown hate but loving it in the same breath.

 

My fears, i.e. shadows, are fears of letting that tree stand and losing everthing that is alive to me.....specifically my children and wife. Very specifically, the tree that grew was a result of me being hurt when my father divorced my mother and left. That hurt, fear, etc. turned into anger and then fruited with hate. So you see, the Spiritual me that you and AM speak of, again, if I am understanding, was lost, or damn near dead. And for me, thanks be to Christ and the mechanism that is the story, He/it saves me from myself. In that, I am able to use my "wierdness", my abilites for insight, as a reborn person that was that lost child.

 

So I see it as a method for authenticity rather than.

 

I sincerely hope that I did not misunderstand. I shall read your post again and also AM's subsequent post and see if I understand them the same way.

Blessings,

Here's the trick End, and it's not an easy one to forewarn you. You don't 'chop down that tree', you embrace it. BUT, here the caveat. You don't embrace it in the sense of giving into it and letting it have power over you. You embrace it in the sense of accepting this is part of who you are. You learn to be kind to yourself and take that part of you and take its energy and feed it love and truth and light. You take its power and make it server that higher truth in you that you wish to be the center of yourself.

 

You can try visualizing it as an ugly child that you don't want to look at, but that that ugly child only wants you to actually love it. Once you can do that, you find that child serves you, rather than simply screaming in your ear and clawing your face off. You feed it love, it gives you power in return. Easy to say, hard to do, but really the only way to fully heal ourselves. We have to accept who we are, both good and bad. The more you try to suppress that power, the more unruly it becomes. You don't respond to it with angry and driving it out, you respond to it with gentle loving kindness. Feed it love. This is shadow work.

[Spectrox]

Ouch, Can i not speak genuinely about anything and it not be be taken as sincere while everyone else can do it when they give a story? Eh, I’m a bit hurt : ( but hey i took the risk joining this site so that is only my fault to blame. granted, i understand the confusion as you all have explained, but i am also confused, if a Christian says someone wasn’t really an atheist to begin with they get attacked like a piece of bacon in fish bowl full of piranhas for thinking such a thing because they dont know the extent of that persons life and what they went through, can this not be applied to me also? but how is it when i say what i said, i should be saying the same thing you guys would tell a Christian who denied you being an atheist to start. I personally believe atheists are converted to Christians by the power of God, but since the power of God is unbelievable, its not accepted, therefore an atheist to Christian conversion is illogical. However, i agree with you to some degree, but I see perhaps there was a misunderstanding of the term atheist in my own vocabulary usage of the term, I in no way shape or form tried to used it as a secret motive action, im a firm believer of being honest and showing integrity and different LEVELS of atheism i go by the dictionary definition "a person who denies or disbelieves the existence of a supreme being or beings." I can spare the long testimony, but basically didnt believe, and then multiple events happen over the coarse of years, 7yrs to be exact from 2003 to 2010. In that time period I was an atheist, in 2010 after the collective of events I began to question my life, thinking back on what I used to believe. No single person could experience every argument ever conceived, in fact this leads me to believe that we should come to people with different beliefs with an open mind so that we can learn and observe, that’s why me, a christian, is here talking with atheists, that we don’t make the same mistakes, beause we don’t live long enough to make all of them. Can a fan know a celebrity just by reading her biography? or If a man meets a woman, and he says heyyyy there pretty lady, how can a guy like me get a girl like you? And the woman give him 10pages worth of stuff. Could he read all that in one sitting and then come back to her and know her from inside out? I doubt that, its much deeper than that and it takes time, because heck we don’t even understand ourselves sometimes, or maybe that’s just me, because I don’t know why im here anymore when I thought I knew, now im not so sure, if I choose not to decide, did I make a choice? how long does it take to know someone anyway? In my opinion I think it takes awhile, because people change as they grow. For this reason for anyone to say I wasn’t who I said I was in a short time span I don’t think that’s fair. This is a bit random but I have christian friends who fake the whole thing they don’t realize, going to church or reading the bible doesn’t make you a christian no more than standing in a garage makes you a car. Religion vs relationship, plays a crucial role in that, but that wll start another topic. Understand that A lot of My friends, are atheists about 80% of them and I have to be careful on what I put on facebook because I honor them, and I used to be with them but we remained friends, my values have always been intact, for this reason when I say I used to be like you, I mean an atheist can be well mannered, happy, loving, caring respectful just like anybody else, regardless of religion. I seen some good people here, even though I been here a short time, thanks for those who have recognized my sincerity as I have yours, but I’m starting get another vibe, I try to use my crappy dry humor and genuine responses and I still get pooped on. Im sorry, truly sorry, but I will be taking a break for awhile for this site, I was ready to respond, now im a hypocrite because now I cant, im not leaving because I cant handle truth or cant respond, I wlasys respond the best I can and say I don’t know when I don’t have an answer there is nothing to be afraid of, hence why I never feel like I am out of my league, because I view us all the same, but I want to grow here, learn here, question my faith not run from opposition of facts, but what drove me away is inconsiderateness if that’s even a word of my responses, I tried, I truly did, apologizing, genuine responses, humor and casual responses wasn’t enough, but unfortunately this is the end, I wish unconditional acceptance was real and more people looking for honest discussion. Thanks Pudd for your defense earlier, Thanks Tealeaf for you vast knowledge, im sorry it couldn’t get back to you, perhaps I will return after marriage. Pudd, Tealeaf and anyone else i missed who saw Me for me, i wish we had more people like you guys and less people like most people. Well, Look me up on facebook Aaron Robinson I can pursue a casual msg there. and i think i will go with the Ps3 thanks for the input : ) October 6, 2012 is the date by the way, its time i set my foucs on planning for now. Good luck to all. I leave you with this....If a Robot, does the Robot, would it still be a Robot or just dancing?

 

Like I said earlier - a fair weather Christian.

 

I think he mistook his loved-upness about his wedding for alleged Biblical love.

 

He naively came onto the Lion's Den of an anti-Christian site and thought he could sway everyone with brainless bizarre banter. He sounded like he was a nice guy, but he came across as being profoundly brainwashed, and lacking basic intelligence and insight.

 

And his written style was visually horrific.

 

I won't miss him.

[mymistake]

TL;DR — HUMONGOUS WALL OF TEXT

 

Yeah, if you are going to build a wall like that it needs towers. Hmmm . . . and maybe a moat with a drawbridge.

[stryper]

If I could interject into the AM, Saner, END3 tangent.....

 

I would say two things.

 

1) Fear is a signal of potential danger. Using that signal you need to analyze the reality or not of the danger.

 

2) You are the total of your experiences warts and all. Darkness and light. In reality, there is and always has been only choice. if past choices led to things you didn't like, then quite simply don't choose that path again. Choose a path that leads towards being what you want and put your effort there.

[Antlerman]

I hadn't caught that Aaron gave into those with the greatest defenses. It's funny Aaron, I thought you had decided have a casual discussion with us. This site is full of curious people. I'm one of them. It's a fucking shame when dialog gets shut down like this, here when I thought you were more than just your rote apologist. You agreed to talk with us, and then this. WTF?

 

If you should reconsider, there are others interested in dialog, and not simply shutting you down. I may not end up agreeing with you, but I am interested in what all humans have to say. If should consider those who enjoy dialog with those we disagree with let me know.

[bdp]

 

If we continually pounce on every christian to arrive on this forum, denouncing them a troll and attacking them, well, how are we any different to the christians who do the same but in different ways ie. banning someone for joining their forum because they are not a believer?

 

 

I said 'troll.' I meant 'spoof.' The radar went up; that's all I can say. I never hinted at banning or attacked him, something just triggered my suspicions. I may well be wrong.

[Antlerman]

If I had a dollar for every time someone used the word troll here, I'd have myself a nice Caribbean Cruise bought and paid for. Of all those times it actually meant anything, I'd be able to buy myself a D.Q. Sunday.