No God = No Hope

[2Honest]

Hey, Denyoz. I'm really sorry you are hurting. I've dealt with depression for a very long time, too. Mine has actually lifted considerably since deconverting, so I've been lucky. I definitely think the deconversion was part of the reason for the change for me. The other part was some lifestyle changes. I agree with the others that meds may be what you need right now (or even ongoing) b/c it may be a chemical imbalance causing much of what you are experiencing. And there's NO shame whatsoever in getting "chemical" help for these issues.

 

I've been thinking about your post since I read it yesterday and trying to decide if I should suggest some other stuff that might help...things that have helped me with my depression. I didn't want to come off like a health nut who's preaching at you or something. That is not my intention at all. I only share these things b/c I care and I know how horrible it is to live with that dark cloud in your mind.

 

Sometimes when we're stressed or depressed we need to be reminded to actually take care of ourselves. We become accustomed to just getting through the day. So we don't think about what we're actually eating/drinking, how much we're sleeping, if we're getting any exercise, doing things we enjoy, etc. Those things may seem trivial, but I know from experience what a big

difference it makes when I take care of myself and pay attention to this stuff.

 

So here's a list of things that I think might help, based on my own experience and on what has been proven scientifically. (These are things you can do in addition to any medical/chemical treatment you receive.)

 

• Get some sun. It's proven that areas of the country with less sunshine have higher incidences of depression. But even if it's cloudy, just getting outside for awhile helps a lot.
  
• 
  
• Take a walk or do some other form of exercise. This releases serotonin and other "feel good" chemicals in your body. Even if you can only do it a few minutes a day it does help.
  
• 
  
• Eat well. This is sometimes hard to do when you're depressed, I know. Our bodies crave junk food when we feel down. But if you can avoid junk (sugar, fried foods, white flour, etc) and add in some real food (fruits, veggies, nuts, whole grains, etc), it will make a BIG difference. If it seems too overwhelming, maybe make a goal to just do this for 1 week. I think you'll notice a difference and not want to go back.
  
• 
  
• Take fish oil. Studies show that it can greatly reduce depression. To get the benefit take at least 2 teaspoons (or 4 capsules) daily with a meal. I can personally tell the difference between when I take it and when I don't. If possible go with a good brand like Carlson's or Nordic Natural's (I get it online). Here's an article about depression and fish oil:
  
• http://www.webmd.com/depression/features/fish-oil-to-treat-depression
  
• 
  
• Take a B-Complex vitamin. "A Finnish study showed that high levels of vitamin B12 in the bloodstream were linked to more successful outcomes among people being treated for depression."
  
• http://www.psychologytoday.com/articles/200403/be-healthy-b12
  
• 
  
• Take Vitamin D3. "Vitamin D activates genes that regulate the immune system and release neurotransmitters (e.g., dopamine, serotonin) that affect brain function and development."
  
• http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/the-breakthrough-depression-solution/201111/psychological-consequences-vitamin-d-deficiency
  

 

Beyond that, drink plenty of water and make sure you are getting enough sleep!

 

I hope this helps and is not too overwhelming. If it is, maybe you can save it for later when you are feeling a little better. If you have any questions about any of this or if I can help further, feel free to send me a message.

 

Hugs,

~2H

[Denyoz]

To clarify, I never "chose" to believe in gods. I experience them. I can't help it, really. I can't choose to be an atheist either. My brain does not go that way.

 

Don't pretend to be anything but what you are. I was doing that as a "christian" and it drove me mad. I would go mad as an atheist.

 

So, that's my advice. Don't pretend. For anyone. I don't.

 

Hey lunaticheathen, thanks for your comment.

 

Since I don't experience any gods right now, I would have to "create" them in my mind. I know this is possible because the god I had before does not exist, but I experienced him and it was one of the greatest experiences in my life. So this means that it is possible to have a "spiritual" experience using your imagination. Of course I believed in him then, so this is probably what gave him life. Or is it? I think I have the ability to make myself believe in things that don't exist. I'm impressionable, I know that. Is it pretending? I'm not sure. I flirt with this idea sometimes. I like the mysterious and I want to believe that there is more to human experience than what the material world has to offer.

 

Is there a place online where you share how you experience gods? I would be interested in reading it. I noticed you have a blog, will I find anything there on the topic?

[lunaticheathen]

I write some in my blog about it (I think I have an experience under the "Hethert" tag). I also post to the netjer.org board under the name Qefathethert.

 

It's difficult to write about these experiences to someone who has not had them, honestly. They go beyond words, it's not purely physical, it's highly emotional.

[Denyoz]

midniterider, I really like what you suggested. Everything, that's exactly what I want to do and already started doing some of it and I enjoy a lot!

 

Rev R, I totally agree with what you say, about settling the mind and not wasting time wrestling with thoughts. You say: "Close your eyes and concentrate on nothing but breathing." Have you tried replacing the word breathing with something else? It can lead to some pretty awesome experiences. But isn't this a way to escape reality? This is what I meant when I wrote "I miss my gods and my drugs". If you read my extimony, you will notice that meditation was my religion. Are you suggesting I should go back there?

 

DeanMen, about the book The Depression Cure, can you tell me what the 6 steps are in a nutshell? I'm lazy when it comes to books, I tend to buy them and not read them, or I only read the Table of Contents to get the info without having to read everything.

 

Dory, thank you for the encouraging words, every bit helps. I should exercise more too. As for helping others with their babies, good for you, I'll pass on that one

 

Eugene39, I read the book of Ecclesiastes during my christian days, it's been a while though. True, this book is unlike any other in the Bible, thanks for the suggestion, I shall look at it again or something similar, I certainly need to find some system of philosophy to live my life by, cause right now I have zilch.

 

Deva, I think what you wrote is simply beautiful and it puts a big smile on my face: "Get really curious and explore all possibilities." I don't think my wife will like that though, but hey... I'll blame it on you! lol. Seriously, this reminds me of something that bothers me that I want to examine sometime: the vows I took while I was a christian, do they still apply? do they still work for me? I'm thinking of marriage vows of course. This is a subject that deserves it's own thread, if someone wants to start it I will certainly join the discussion, or maybe the topic is already out there, I haven't looked.

 

London, I really like what you wrote, it brings peace in my heart. Man, you are not only funny, you are wise, and there is something gentle in the way you express yourself that I find consoling, and it goes beyond the words, are you an angel or something? Anyway I agree with you: "that hope is a false form of comfort." Thanks so much.

 

mcdaddy, I agree with you totally. By the way, do you know where I can get cheap opium?

 

norton65ca, hey fellow Canadian, how's is goin? Yes you're so right, I have wasted enough of my life thinking about "deep crap and the Big Picture." Ha! ha! deep crap, that's funny. I want a motorcycle now. I rode one once and I crashed. But now they have those 3-wheelers that look pretty safe. The more I think of it, the more this sounds like a great idea. Thanks man!

[Denyoz]

Denyoz, believe me - I'm going through the SAME thing you're going through and I've been going through it ever since I deconverted back in November. I know what it's like to feel like there's no hope anymore without god and I'm still trying to look inward for that hope/strength, but I just can't find it. What makes things worse is that there isn't much of anything good or positive going on in my life at the moment: no job, no money, and multiple other depressing things are driving me crazy and losing my faith was the icing on the cake.

 

All I can say is that I have good days where I think I'm handling things pretty well and then other days (like today), I'm depressed and tired of pretending everything is fine. It's exhasting.

 

Hey TotalWreck, your post makes me sad to see that you are going through the same thing as me, but happy to see that I am not alone. I would be interested in reading more on your depression and your life, have you posted any of it somewhere?

[ConureDelSol]

Hey, Denyoz. I'm really sorry you are hurting. I've dealt with depression for a very long time, too. Mine has actually lifted considerably since deconverting, so I've been lucky. I definitely think the deconversion was part of the reason for the change for me. The other part was some lifestyle changes. I agree with the others that meds may be what you need right now (or even ongoing) b/c it may be a chemical imbalance causing much of what you are experiencing. And there's NO shame whatsoever in getting "chemical" help for these issues.

 

I've been thinking about your post since I read it yesterday and trying to decide if I should suggest some other stuff that might help...things that have helped me with my depression. I didn't want to come off like a health nut who's preaching at you or something. That is not my intention at all. I only share these things b/c I care and I know how horrible it is to live with that dark cloud in your mind.

 

Sometimes when we're stressed or depressed we need to be reminded to actually take care of ourselves. We become accustomed to just getting through the day. So we don't think about what we're actually eating/drinking, how much we're sleeping, if we're getting any exercise, doing things we enjoy, etc. Those things may seem trivial, but I know from experience what a big

difference it makes when I take care of myself and pay attention to this stuff.

 

So here's a list of things that I think might help, based on my own experience and on what has been proven scientifically. (These are things you can do in addition to any medical/chemical treatment you receive.)

• Get some sun. It's proven that areas of the country with less sunshine have higher incidences of depression. But even if it's cloudy, just getting outside for awhile helps a lot.
  
• 
  
• Take a walk or do some other form of exercise. This releases serotonin and other "feel good" chemicals in your body. Even if you can only do it a few minutes a day it does help.
  
• 
  
• Eat well. This is sometimes hard to do when you're depressed, I know. Our bodies crave junk food when we feel down. But if you can avoid junk (sugar, fried foods, white flour, etc) and add in some real food (fruits, veggies, nuts, whole grains, etc), it will make a BIG difference. If it seems too overwhelming, maybe make a goal to just do this for 1 week. I think you'll notice a difference and not want to go back.
  
• 
  
• Take fish oil. Studies show that it can greatly reduce depression. To get the benefit take at least 2 teaspoons (or 4 capsules) daily with a meal. I can personally tell the difference between when I take it and when I don't. If possible go with a good brand like Carlson's or Nordic Natural's (I get it online). Here's an article about depression and fish oil:
  
• http://www.webmd.com...reat-depression
  
• 
  
• Take a B-Complex vitamin. "A Finnish study showed that high levels of vitamin B12 in the bloodstream were linked to more successful outcomes among people being treated for depression."
  
• http://www.psycholog.../be-healthy-b12
  
• 
  
• Take Vitamin D3. "Vitamin D activates genes that regulate the immune system and release neurotransmitters (e.g., dopamine, serotonin) that affect brain function and development."
  
• http://www.psycholog...in-d-deficiency
  

Beyond that, drink plenty of water and make sure you are getting enough sleep!

 

I hope this helps and is not too overwhelming. If it is, maybe you can save it for later when you are feeling a little better. If you have any questions about any of this or if I can help further, feel free to send me a message.

 

Hugs,

~2H

 

 

Just to add. You can acquire Vitamin D by being in sunlight. Thirty minutes a day does wonders. Two birds, one stone.

[Rev R]

Rev R, I totally agree with what you say, about settling the mind and not wasting time wrestling with thoughts. You say: "Close your eyes and concentrate on nothing but breathing." Have you tried replacing the word breathing with something else? It can lead to some pretty awesome experiences. But isn't this a way to escape reality? This is what I meant when I wrote "I miss my gods and my drugs". If you read my extimony, you will notice that meditation was my religion. Are you suggesting I should go back there?

 

I meant precisely what I said: breathe. Not meditation, not escaping reality, not speaking in tongues, not surrendering to some concept of God, just the movement of that which you need- air. In fact, don't even close your eyes. The exercise is not about having an experience it is about calming all those wants. I also suggest not discussing how Luna experiences her gods until you get past this particular stage. Getting yourself back in balance takes priority, the rest can wait.

[MrsRoper]

Yes, a lot of it has already been recommended: Sunshine, Exercise, Vitamin D, Omega 3s, not getting caught in the trap of ruminating negative thoughts (this is a speciality of mine). It's practical advice for dealing with the physical side of depression, this with a good therapist is key.

 

I was cracking up at what you were saying to JoeCoastie, about responsibility & family - we really are thinking the same thoughts. I am actually cool without god now. Some of my depression is chemical, some of it is latent childhood trauma (my brain needs rewiring). But what really gets me down is I feel trapped as well. I supposedly have the American dream. 2 kids & a husband who loves me, and I am supposed to LOVE being a stay at home mom. I feel more like a mental now than I did when I left seminary. These miniature humans spend their entire day blathering at me and asking for food, instread of one voice in my head there are 3 in my head, it's like Momzophrenia. To plagiarize a blog I read this morning, I've aged 100 years since giving birth and am starting to look like Nick Nolte in mom jeans. I'm in suburban hell with these perfect stay at home mom types & I've lost my sense of self and what I even like or want to do or be. Nobody tells you these things about parenting when they encourage you to pair up and procreate! It's lonely work.

[lunaticheathen]

I also feel like I should add that my interaction/belief in gods does not cure my depression. I still suffer from depression.

 

Another point I feel I should make - I don't think it's very respectable to "make yourself believe." I won't tell you not to, but I don't hold that kind of belief in high esteem. Again, I did not make myself believe. I do because of what has happened to me.

 

I do not believe anything simply because it eases any pain. My spiritual path is hard work. If I could choose it, I doubt I actually would. But I did not choose it, and here I am. Being me.

 

Why don't you try finding out who you really are first? No god, no faith, no spiritual practice will do any good, ever, if you blind yourself to your true Self. Some may help you on that road, but I think finding your true Self is a better goal than some god-patch you seem to be seeking.

[decafaholic]

I'm on anti-depressants and have been for 7 years. I wouldn't say they numb me as much as they make me want to keep living. I started taking them in the first place because I was seeing a counselor weekly, but still struggling with suicidal thoughts. My moods became a lot more stable after I started on Zoloft. And just to prove that the meds didn't make me a conformist, I actually deconverted a year after starting the meds.

 

Most people have to change up their dosage occasionally for one reason or another. It could be that you need to try a new medicine. Personally, I find talk therapy very helpful in conjunction with meds. My therapist was just telling me the other day, there are some things every person needs and two of those things are social needs and the need to be productive.

 

I don't get my social needs met as much as I would like, but I fulfill my need to be productive by volunteering at an animal shelter every week and writing articles for my blog (www.arkansaspetgazette.com).

 

And like someone else said here, my pet cat keeps me company and makes me laugh when my bf's not home. Pets are a big help for depression.

[blackpudd1n]

Thank you all so much, wow! So many things went through my mind while reading all of your responses, you guys are amazing.

 

Taking my medication (drugs) is too easy, and boring. I don't want to go back there right now, I know exactly what that place is like. It took me four months to get off the meds, now I'm where I wanted to be. I call it reality, and yes it hurts, but it's a bit more interesting then before. I feel something can happen now, I'm in a place where possibilities exist.

 

I know very well what antidepressants do. They turn you into a nice little robot that conforms to society's wishes and numbs any ideas you might have had to rock the boat. Yes antidepressants are very useful to society, but are they useful to the individual? Only to the one that wants to conform to society. Why would I want to conform? Society sucks. Not the people, the system. Humans invented a system and today we realize that this system sucks and it's time to change it. But change is scary, and it's difficult. It's much easier to swallow a pill and keep things as they are, than to initiate change.

 

We know where humanity is heading. We're going 200 miles an hour toward a brick wall. We haven't hit the wall yet, there is still time for a turnaround. But as soon as someone starts acting differently, we call the doctor. "Sick person here, not acting like the rest of us. Quick, sedate him, quick, danger!" WTF? We have all watched or read scientific stuff about evolution, right? When does evolution happen? It happens when one little change happens and something/someone starts behaving differently. We have to evolve, it's our only hope. This means to start doing things differently.

 

Depression happens when you get sick and tired of doing the same boring thing over and over and over. It's not an illness, it's a call to evolve.

 

Or maybe I should just take the drug and shut up. I'm thinking too much here, the establishment is getting uncomfortable. Sorry Establishment Sir, sorry to disturb you, Your Majesty, Sir Estab Allmighty Motherfucker Sir!

 

I want to go at the heart of the depression, to see what's down there. What is it that is so scary down there that we don't want to look at face to face, uh? What do you think. Is it dangerous? Is it some kind of black hole that you can never come out of? What do we have to lose, people.

 

Denyoz,

 

I have been taking psychiatric medication for 5 years now, everyday, and I will continue to for the rest of my life. And I am so grateful to those pills. I would not be alive without them.

 

As far as I am concerned, if taking a pill makes your life easier, then why not take it? I hear what you are saying. In fact, I hear it all the time from people. Why punish yourself unnecessarily? Why make life hard for yourself? You're going through a tough time; it's okay to need a hand coping. Rome wasn't built in a day. No-one ever has it together all of the time. If you had a broken leg, you wouldn't take off the cast before it was properly healed and go walking around on it, now, would you?

 

You may have been on the wrong medication. That is most certainly possible. Please, though, I urge you to be kind to yourself, go to the doctor, and talk to him/her honestly about all that you are going through, and maybe look at some other form of medication. You don't sound too good to me, and I care enouugh to be concerned about you.

 

Love, Pudd

[Denyoz]

Chikirin, thank you, yes, I love this: "So if there is anything that makes you happy, do it with a vengeance!!" Hmm... Wife and kids won't like it... So are they the ostacle to my happiness? Yes I think so and this is what pisses me. In order to be happy, I have to hurt them. And if I do, I won't be happy. So I'm stuck. Trapped. Imprisoned. Depressed. I have to find a way out of this mess, and I will.

 

jbblueep, give myself away? You got to be kidding. If you can find fulfillment in helping others, please tell me how you do it, cause I really don't know how it works. The more I help others, the more I want to disappear.

[Denyoz]

2Honest, thank you, I really appreciate your suggestions. Some of them I do already and some others (like the fish oil) I would be happy to try. I'm lucky, I'm physically healthy. But mentally, that's another story

 

Rev R, thanks for the precision. Ok so the exercise is not about having an experience it is about calming all those wants. I see. In my case this would not work because I'm already too calm and I want nothing. I need a stimulant. So can I do the opposite of what you're suggesting? Do you foresee any danger?

 

DeanMen, it's great to hear from someone who is in a similar situation: married with children and stuck at home. The perfect family living in total bliss. *sigh* Kids are the best thing that has ever happened to me. NOT! This topic deserves it's own thread, there is much I need to vent on this subject.

 

lunaticheathen, thanks again for giving me more info. When I think about believing in gods, it's in a creative way. Like an author who creates characters for his book, and gives them names, personalities and life. He can then put himself in their shoes and experience their emotions. It can be an intense and rewarding experience, like when you watch a good movie and imagine that you are really there. We all do this, and sometimes I wonder how far we can go and how much you can lose yourself in something that does not really exist for an outsider. I know what you mean when you say: "It's difficult to write about these experiences to someone who has not had them."

[Denyoz]

Pets are a big help for depression.

 

Indeed. I have a cat too and as long as she's around, I will not lose my mind, I'm sure. Thanks decaf for your post. It reminds me, I once read that men experience depression in a very different way than women do. I got this strong impression when I read your post and then blackpudd's. I'll see if I can find the article.

[NeverAgainV]

Hey Denyoz, When I read what you wrote it reminded me of how I felt for a least 2-3 years after leaving the bible cult & a few years before too.

I honestly thought...."I'll never feel normal or happy EVER again." Sounds like you are experiencing something similar. It's the pits for sure!

 

You've gotten some good advice from the folks here. Like others have said, don't feel bad or ashamed for having to take meds. My dad was bipolar & I'm so glad he had medication to help him.

 

The one thing I did do during those horrible black days is I would get outside & walk. Sometimes I would cry, think, talk to myself, talk to "god" or "the gods" shake my fist & curse bible god... Even during that physical activity I knew I was terribly depressed, I remember the beautiful blue skies & weather & the birds singing & thinking to myself that I felt dead. I could not feel & any feeling I got was dark...I would have slept all day, except that I had two young children to care for. I think some of me was shutting down a bit because what the cult & leader did to me was too much for me to handle I know that.

 

Anyways, I'll tell you what helped me. The first thing was, as others have said....DISTRACTION. (I couldn't really enjoy or feel during the times we did stuff, as I was obsessing over the whole cult thing...but it got me outside & trying to live in the moment & at least my kids enjoyed some of the outings, even if my mind was on how god might kill me per the pastor's threats of divine judgment for leaving the "church"... ....) It got me to start living in some ways.

 

Movies worked the best for me....movies that dealt with issues at the heart of what I was going through like

The Matrix & V for Vendetta....but then there are the recent animated films that for me, did a world of good....you would be surprised

at the messages they contain that are so helpful.

If you haven't seen these, you have to see.....Disney's TANGLED, How to Train your Dragon, & Coraline . I loved comic books as a child & teen, so I found my old comics & started reading them after decades...I guess I wanted to feel how I did BEFORE the cult fucked my mind up...I wanted so badly to feel normal again. You see, I remembered what it felt like to NOT fear all of the time, to NOT worry about heaven, hell, doctrine, church membership & all of the bullshit that religion puts on us. I wanted that feeling again.

 

Good distractions & losing yourself in something that you might enjoy. Others have mentioned some good stuff, hobbies, etc.

What also helped me was..ok, I'm not an atheist, I'm probably a polytheist or deist...I want to believe in a benevolent being, spirits, that helps me

because I get sad thinking this is all there is...I want to believe there is more than this. I guess the fantasy helps me cope.

 

You've been through a lot & the whole religion thing can really mess with our minds so have compassion on yourself. I do hope you can find some healthy distractions from it all. You may actually be able to put *it* aside, even if a few minutes...then more & more as you heal.

Please take care of yourself!

NeverAgainV

[lunaticheathen]

My gods are not characters. That is all.

 

Good luck to you, sir.

[Akheia]

My heart goes out to you. I think you really need to share your assumptions about medication and your continued depression with your counselor asap. You're opening under some "control beliefs" that don't sound right to me. God as an opiate, drugs as a weakness, the only way out of your depression involving divorce, etc. Several people have told you why medications in particular aren't weakness, and I'll add my choice to theirs. Your need for medication isn't any different from an asthmatic's need for inhalers. I had asthma for a year or two, and I sure didn't turn my nose up at inhalers! But the asthma went away as mysteriously as it'd come, and I could ditch them. You may need these meds to correct an organic imbalance--if so, this depression may not be one you can musclefuck through. Depression can kill. Please take this despair seriously.

 

You really need to talk to your doc, and please make sure you tell him why you're so resistant to medication. Good luck!

[jblueep]

jbblueep, give myself away? You got to be kidding. If you can find fulfillment in helping others, please tell me how you do it, cause I really don't know how it works. The more I help others, the more I want to disappear.

 

What works for me might not work for you, especially if you are feeling over extended right now. For certain, the risk in helping others is that they will take advantage of you. In general, I have observed that people start to value themselves and their own life more when they see they have something to give others and how much better their life is in comparison to those that they help.

 

Whatever the solution is for you, I do think you will get there because you are open about your need and you have people who care for you (here and I am sure elsewhere although that may be hard to see right now).

 

All the best to you my friend!

[Chikirin]

Chikirin, thank you, yes, I love this: "So if there is anything that makes you happy, do it with a vengeance!!" Hmm... Wife and kids won't like it... So are they the ostacle to my happiness? Yes I think so and this is what pisses me. In order to be happy, I have to hurt them. And if I do, I won't be happy. So I'm stuck. Trapped. Imprisoned. Depressed. I have to find a way out of this mess, and I will.

 

 

I've been in therapy since July, in dialectical behavior therapy, you learn to look at every thing from more than one angle. I want to watch Easy Rider again, as it deals with the question of what does it mean to be free? They visit a guy in the country with 15 kids who feels trapped, but Fonda says wow you have such a great situation out here in the country I wish I could live like you.... So there's different ways to view a situation.

 

I felt imprisoned by my job, so I quit, but then i felt imprisoned by lack of money. So now I'm working again, and although I feel trapped in some ways, I can take the view point that the job also gives me freedom.

[Denyoz]

blackpudd, thank you for your message, for the care and the concern. I'm doing better than it seems in those posts. Sometimes I allow myself to think negatively and write it down, it's therapeutic, I'm doing myself a favour. It might be hard for the listener, I'm sorry. I know what I'm doing and I'm in a safe place.

 

NeverAgainV, thank you for sharing more of your experience with me. Other people's experiences are a valuable resource. Yours is full of precious insight and practical advice. I can relate to it and just like you, I get pleasure out of distracting myself and will continue to do so. I watched TANGLED a couple months ago, and yes, great film. I bought HOW TO TRAIN YOUR DRAGON for my daughter at Christmas but haven't watched it yet.

[Denyoz]

Good luck to you, sir.

 

Hey Luna, if I may ask, are you taking any medication right now? What's your overall thought (if any) on prescription drugs, doctors, psychiatrists? You can PM me if you prefer privacy. No obligation whatsoever.

[Deva]

Deva, I think what you wrote is simply beautiful and it puts a big smile on my face: "Get really curious and explore all possibilities." I don't think my wife will like that though, but hey... I'll blame it on you! lol. Seriously, this reminds me of something that bothers me that I want to examine sometime: the vows I took while I was a christian, do they still apply? do they still work for me? I'm thinking of marriage vows of course. This is a subject that deserves it's own thread, if someone wants to start it I will certainly join the discussion, or maybe the topic is already out there, I haven't looked.

 

Hi Denyoz, thanks for that. I hope I help some. I have an advantage with the "explore all possibilities" because I am single. I am quite sure things would be different if I were not. I think it takes even more strength and courage to really do the exploration if you are with someone who does not share that same view. I really sympathize with your position

 

I was married once. My ex broke his marriage vows by spending time with another woman. I always took my vow seriously, but my hands are clean on that score. I only physically left when there was no relationship at all. Anyway, the theme of vows is an interesting one - especially in the context of Buddhism, where you also take vows. I may do a thread on that one day, or you can, if you like.

 

On Thursday I did something really radical (for me). I drove across the entire state of Florida to meet with some of my friends here on ex-c. It has raised my spirits 100%. I need more experiences like that, and I am saying things can seem very static and then sometimes inspiration or opportunity comes your way - its up to us not to miss it, and to act upon it.

[Akheia]

Denyoz, if it helps, I was on an SSRI for panic attacks for a year or two in the late 90s. I was bummed about taking them at first, but a dear friend who was on Prozac set me straight right quick! She's going to be on something her entire life, because she has an honest-to-goodness organic deficiency in her brain chemistry--she blames yo-yo dieting, but honestly nobody knows. She was less than impressed about my bitching and after her patient ass-kicking I saw the light and was a good girl with them. I took them in conjunction with weekly therapy visits. I don't think they really made me a robot; I thought of it as just helping me even out a little. The lows weren't as brutal and the panic attacks were kept at bay till I'd learned to handle them without meds. Once the PTSD was treated, my doc weaned me off the meds, and I've been pretty much attack-free for about the last 10 years. It's not any different from being diabetic or hypertensive. If you need the meds, take the meds. It isn't a weakness or a shortcoming to need any of it. How glorious and wonderful that we live in an era with such astonishing medical advances!

 

Just don't drink while taking an SSRI. For real. I got DTs my first party night and that was scary enough to make me quit drinking more or less permanently! Somehow the doc had forgotten to tell me about that little interaction.

 

I hope you're feeling a little better, sweetie

[Denyoz]

My heart goes out to you. I think you really need to share your assumptions about medication and your continued depression with your counselor asap. You're opening under some "control beliefs" that don't sound right to me. God as an opiate, drugs as a weakness, the only way out of your depression involving divorce, etc. Several people have told you why medications in particular aren't weakness, and I'll add my choice to theirs. Your need for medication isn't any different from an asthmatic's need for inhalers. I had asthma for a year or two, and I sure didn't turn my nose up at inhalers! But the asthma went away as mysteriously as it'd come, and I could ditch them. You may need these meds to correct an organic imbalance--if so, this depression may not be one you can musclefuck through. Depression can kill. Please take this despair seriously.

You really need to talk to your doc, and please make sure you tell him why you're so resistant to medication. Good luck!

 

Thank you Akheia for your kind words and your heart. I would be happy to share my assumptions about medication and my continued depression with my counselor, but I don't have a counselor, and if I had, I can't imagine what he could say that I have not already heard of read. I'm not sure what you mean by "You're opening under some "control beliefs" that don't sound right to me." Can you explain? I'm glad you pinpoint some of my perceptions you think are wrong. I'm not very proud of them and if I talk about them it's because I want to examine them objectively and if possible, discuss them openly, in order to change. I'm not trying to convince anyone that I am right. For example, I find that we let institutions run our lives much more than we should. I can give examples. I know many people (including my wife) WANT to be told what to do, but many other would like a little more freedom. Sometimes I exagerate to make a point, but usually I just want to tell it as it is, but I am aware that there are many ways to look at things, like Chikirin has said in his above post. I don't mind having my views challenged right now, in fact, that's what I want otherwise I would not be posting here. So thank you.

 

You say: "Your need for medication isn't any different from an asthmatic's need for inhalers." Maybe it's not different and maybe it is. Even the specialists are not sure how to treat depression. They say try this, if it doesn't work try that. Many times a drug will help but the side effects cause more problems, so you need more drugs to counter those side effect, and this can build up to the point of having to swallow incredible amounts of drugs. My father had to take so many I could not believe it. Finally he died. You say "Depression can kill" and you are right, but so can medication. At the end of the day, only YOU are responsible for your well-being, not the doctors, not your counsellors, not your friends. It's hard work to look at all the pros and cons and make a wise decisions. I'm doing the best I can, and so far I think I'm doing pretty good.

 

Thank you for sharing your experience with SSRI and PTSD. I know a lot about panic attacks, my wife suffers from them and she's medicated, so is my sister. Maybe I forgot to mention that my decision to go off the meds was taken with my psychiatrist, it was gradual, and it went very well. I knew that there were going to be "down days" and I was ready for it. My original post was written on my first major down day. It's normal to have down days, everyone has them. Being cured from depression does not mean I will never have down days. I don't think anyone should panic when I'm down, I have resources and there are many ways to deal with problems, whether physical or mental. I'm feeling much better now. I have a great life overall, really, I'm not going to write about it because it's bound to make some people jealous

 

Like I said, my main purpose with this thread is to discuss my negative perceptions in order to transform them, not to debate whether or not I should take drugs, that's my business, and I just hope you won't abandon me if I decide not to jump back on the antidepressant bandwagon right now. Maybe later. I'm not totally against them you know.

[Denyoz]

For certain, the risk in helping others is that they will take advantage of you.

 

Absolutely, my first marriage is a good example. Rare are the people you can help who won't try to take advantage of it, and most of the time they are not aware of it. And sometimes the kind of help people are asking for is not really the kind of help they need, so... I find it's a tricky game to play and for some reason I always end up disappointed.