I'm Here To Provide Answers To Your Questions ... Please Try Me

[Denyoz]

So ok. I was born again. If you don't believe me, read my testimony. God's spirit is inside me. Still, when I ask God for directions, specific things like "should I marry this girl?", he gives me no clear answer. To do his will, I need to hear his answers clearly. How can I hear him clearly? Please don't quote scriptures. Give me something based on your own experience. Thank you.

 

Keep Asking, Seeking, Knocking

 

Matthew 7:

⁷ “Ask, and it will be given to you; seek, and you will find; knock, and it will be opened to you.

⁸ For everyone who asks receives, and he who seeks finds, and to him who knocks it will be opened.

⁹ Or what man is there among you who, if his son asks for bread, will give him a stone?

¹⁰ Or if he asks for a fish, will he give him a serpent?

¹¹ If you then, being evil, know how to give good gifts to your children, how much more will

your Father who is in heaven give good things to those who ask Him!

 

Yes, Jesus was talking to and about His 12 disciples ... and about all of mankind.

 

Also, be like the persistent widow who finally got what she wanted.

 

Thank you Doug.

 

I was 23 years old when I asked God if I should marry this girl. You say that if I'm patient and persistent, God will eventually answer me clearly. Good. I'm lucky because I am patient. I'm 49 years old today and still waiting for the answer. No rush, man!

 

MEANWHILE, I became a member of this website, just a few months ago. I am telling people that God is acting like he does not exist or care, because this is my experience of the truth. I will start preaching his Word when he starts acting on them.

[Ouroboros]

This is a joke. I know it.

 

How could Doug have editing abilities?

I don't know. I thought the system had a minimum limit of 25. Maybe one of the software updates screwed it up, or Dave removed it.

[TheBluegrassSkeptic]

God created both angels and humans to have free will.

He DESIRED these free-will creations (not robots) to praise Him and worship Him.

And He DESIRED to have humans on earth freely praise and worship Him.

Angels in heaven and humans on earth ... all praising and worshipping Him.

 

Okay, for fun, maybe you can answer a question that NONE have been able to give an answer for in my 35 years.

Why did God create man?Why did he feel it necessary to create a separate plane of existance for us to live on

and then make us earn his trust?

Why did he place temptation in the garden if he knew we were innocent and supplicant WITHOUT it?

These are very important questions.

Telling me that we were created in his image DOES NOT answer why. I want the WHY answered, not the how, when, who or what. I expect you will try to quote scripture, but if it is vague scripture that requires you to twist the word "and" to mean something other than what it means, then do not use that scripture. And if you cherry pick your answer from a scripture regarding Job or Paul and try to apply it in reverse time order, it won't work either.

Seriously, answer this. I am genuinely curious.

 

Ever heard that God hasn't told us everything?

If He were to tell us everything, where/how would FAITH be important?

The answer is in your quote.

I don't know, but it's on the Internet

... IMO, God wanted free-will creations to choose to be obedient, etc.

1/3 of the angels did not ... they followed Lucifer/Satan.

The first humans, Adam and Eve, did not ... they followed the serpent (Satan).

God DESIRED obedient free-will creations (angels and humans) to praise/worship Him.

Okay, can you quote your subjective interpretations about this so called "desire". And you are saying that essentially, god purposely put temptation in the garden in order to have adam and eve fall and essentially experience regret and grovel...willingly..to be back in his favor. It doesn't stand to even omniscient reasoning that you create pure beings who are WILLINGLY supplicant already, and then turn around and decide to change it to a game of meglomaniacal courtship.

 

And how do you know the serpent was satan. Isn't named as such in the OT. Serpent was merely a form of temptation that god put there. If god told us everything, it would stand to reason we would WILLINGLY be obedient and want him....so the faith logic is still ridiculous.

 

 

You still have answered the WHY of this. All you've done is put the word desire in front of free will without any backing. The fact s that there isn't a real reason why god, in his vast nothingness, decided to create the cosmos, create life, and then create life long hurdles to jump in order to gain acccess to his plane of existance. At the most, like someone had tried to say earlier on a different thread, we were made to tend his garden, like a bunch of ants. People got wise about the deal, and now God was forced to contemplate insurance benefits to keep us working.

 

There's a lot on the internet. Yes. I agree with you on that point only. It's obvious that is where you've done your "training".

[Legion]

This is a joke. I know it.

 

How could Doug have editing abilities?

I don't know. I thought the system had a minimum limit of 25. Maybe one of the software updates screwed it up, or Dave removed it.

 

Oh well, I guess we'll suffer him for a while.

 

[Ouroboros]

Oh well, I guess we'll suffer him for a while.

I was late to the thread, but I agree with you... very strange character.

[TheBluegrassSkeptic]

Oh well, I guess we'll suffer him for a while.

I was late to the thread, but I agree with you... very strange character.

I still think it should go to the Den. But then again, nothing with a xtian is ever formal let alone following the rules. Let's just file 13 his can and be done with it.

[Xerces]

Hatred against God, His Scriptures, and me ... won't get anyone anywhere.

Instead, why not just ask questions?

Ok Doug, here is my question:

How can I have a personal relationship with God when there is no way for me to hear God's answers clearly? There cannot be an effective relationship if there is no effective communication.

 

Yes, to have a personal relationship with God, one needs to be born again (from above),

which means God's Spirit comes INSIDE and stays there forever.

Would you like a Scripture verse that explains this?

 

gods spirit does cum inside, that's why mary got preggers

[TheBluegrassSkeptic]

God created both angels and humans to have free will.

He DESIRED these free-will creations (not robots) to praise Him and worship Him.

And He DESIRED to have humans on earth freely praise and worship Him.

Angels in heaven and humans on earth ... all praising and worshipping Him.

 

Okay, for fun, maybe you can answer a question that NONE have been able to give an answer for in my 35 years.

Why did God create man?Why did he feel it necessary to create a separate plane of existance for us to live on

and then make us earn his trust?

Why did he place temptation in the garden if he knew we were innocent and supplicant WITHOUT it?

These are very important questions.

Telling me that we were created in his image DOES NOT answer why. I want the WHY answered, not the how, when, who or what. I expect you will try to quote scripture, but if it is vague scripture that requires you to twist the word "and" to mean something other than what it means, then do not use that scripture. And if you cherry pick your answer from a scripture regarding Job or Paul and try to apply it in reverse time order, it won't work either.

Seriously, answer this. I am genuinely curious.

 

Ever heard that God hasn't told us everything?

If He were to tell us everything, where/how would FAITH be important?

The answer is in your quote.

I don't know, but it's on the Internet

... IMO, God wanted free-will creations to choose to be obedient, etc.

1/3 of the angels did not ... they followed Lucifer/Satan.

The first humans, Adam and Eve, did not ... they followed the serpent (Satan).

 

God DESIRED obedient free-will creations (angels and humans) to praise/worship Him.

His solution was to put His Spirit inside some humans

... His Spirit would lead--guide--instruct--teach them to please God.

 

No humans deserve to be sanctified unto holiness.

But, God gives some humans His grace to go through this process.

Desire that you may be one of these.

See, it's YOUR opinion that no human deserves to sanctified to him. Care to quote him? And his process has changed so many times, it is obviously a written work of fiction to adjust with changing times on man's part. What god needs to change his rules with the times? If you don't follow, see how he simply only allowed his chosen in OT to attain his love, and then changed the rules with Jebus in the NT. You are worshipping a stone idol buried somewhere in a desert from eons ago. How hilariously tribal! Have fun in your life. I know I am in mine. ~~Outta here

[Akheia]

I don't think he's for real. As I said, nobody could possibly be that stupid. I've read this entire thread and he hasn't ONCE answered any serious question put to him. His main tactics are evasion, outrageous claims, and arrogance. Even for a fundie he's pretty broadly-drawn.

[Mudhoney]

I'm new here, and I can promise you that many of your questions/comments

are the direct result of lousy teaching in the churches today.

 

God has seen to it that a lot of critical information has been provided in His Scriptures,

but obviously it has to be believed to be of any benefit to you.

 

A lot of basic information is explained in Genesis, for example, but of course, if you don't believe it,

you're just SOL.

 

For starters ...

 

God created both angels and humans to have free will.

He DESIRED these free-will creations (not robots) to praise Him and worship Him.

And He DESIRED to have humans on earth freely praise and worship Him.

Angels in heaven and humans on earth ... all praising and worshipping Him.

 

Okay, is this reasonable, or do we need to discuss this before continuing?

 

P.S. I used to be an evangelist, so no amount of persecution, etc. will faze me in the least.

 

 

Doug, I probably shouldn't bother with this, but I have a minute right now so what the hell...

I half suspect that you aren't really who you say you are and that this is a joke, and I don't have a single question for you, but I wanted to impress upon you the sheer number of errors in the Bible. Thousands and thousands of errors, both large and small. If there were an all-powerful creator, then these many, many mistakes would be beneath he/she/it. Right? For example, in the Gospel According to Matthew (27:9), the author (whoever he was) attributes what could loosely be interpreted as a prophecy to the prophet Jeremiah that was actually spoken by Zechariah (11:12-13). Why didn't God keep this straight? This is what really happened: New testament authors looked through the Old Testament looking for prophecies they could "make happen." In this case, the author didn't double-check his source. This is really just a small example to illustrate to you that the Bible is just a book, written by men and full of mistakes.

I noticed that the devil is an important figure to you, and that you give this character a lot a credit for things, but he is just make-believe. The few times the word is mentioned in the Old Testament (in Hebrew) the meaning is as an obstruction, or an adversary. The Book of Job comes to mind, but this character is presented as a prosecutor in a court room, not the character as described by the Christian Church. This story is fanciful, and not a literal account of actual events. The Christian Church made up the devil and hell to control people. Christianity is about money, power, and control.

I believe that you have had some kind of experience that makes you feel the way you do, but you're wrong about Christianity. It is a lie. Do you know why there is "evil" in the world? It's because human beings are capable of acting in horrible ways to each other! You will either listen to reason or you won't. I'm not quite sure why you care what the people on this site believe or don't believe. What does it have to do with you? Does it make you angry when people leave Christianity? Why does it bother you?

[Legion]

I've read this entire thread....

 

[MrsRoper]

I don't think he's for real. As I said, nobody could possibly be that stupid. I've read this entire thread and he hasn't ONCE answered any serious question put to him. His main tactics are evasion, outrageous claims, and arrogance. Even for a fundie he's pretty broadly-drawn.

 

You are probably right. Maybe that's why I am more amused than annoyed.

[3DollarBill]

And he's gone.

 

That was entertaining.

[MrsRoper]

Even if he is a troll, I think this thread perfectly illustrates the futility of having a rational conversation with a true believer. How can you have a rational discussion with someone who believes in demons and hell? I used to feel like I had to defend myself from my family for not believing any of this, but now I am seeing there is no point.

[3DollarBill]

Even if he is a troll, I think this thread perfectly illustrates the futility of having a rational conversation with a true believer. How can you have a rational discussion with someone who believes in demons and hell? I used to feel like I had to defend myself from my family for not believing any of this, but now I am seeing there is no point.

I don't care about Doug. I care about the 8-10 guests who were reading this while it got hot. 2 or 3 might be on the fence about this whole thing...so let them see how it goes when you try to have a rational discussion with a fundy. Let them see the apologist's best excuses. Let them see how the only way to answer our questions is to evade them. Doug may refuse intellectual honesty but someone else reading this may not. Let them see. These message boards helped me work through some serious shit and I cannot say a big enough thank you to those who have posted on here for years, asking the tough questions, exposing the bible and gawd for the stupid myth that it is. Others will come and one by one they can choose the real world or the imaginary.

 

Even if doug comes back and reads this post he's too fucking arrogant to acknowledge that he may have just helped us make some atheists. Any lurkers on the fence...come converse with us. We are here to help each other and we are here to help you.

[midniterider]

I'm new here, and I can promise you that many of your questions/comments

are the direct result of lousy teaching in the churches today.

 

God has seen to it that a lot of critical information has been provided in His Scriptures,

but obviously it has to be believed to be of any benefit to you.

 

A lot of basic information is explained in Genesis, for example, but of course, if you don't believe it,

you're just SOL.

 

For starters ...

 

God created both angels and humans to have free will.

He DESIRED these free-will creations (not robots) to praise Him and worship Him.

And He DESIRED to have humans on earth freely praise and worship Him.

Angels in heaven and humans on earth ... all praising and worshipping Him.

 

Okay, is this reasonable, or do we need to discuss this before continuing?

 

P.S. I used to be an evangelist, so no amount of persecution, etc. will faze me in the least.

 

Being free from the oppression of christian fear, guilt and manipulation isnt SOL, it is freedom. :-)

 

Freely praise and worship jesus or burn in hell if I refuse, right? I also can 'freely' pay taxes or go to prison for tax evasion. There's no freedom in either of these things. Christian freedom to follow jesus is really coercion.

 

You can promise me that many of my comments and questions are the direct result of lousy church teaching. Well, unless you are omniscient or managed to attend the church of every ex-c member on this website I would have to say you positively have NO idea what specific church teachings any of us have received.

 

However I would have to say that any church teaching that uses the bible is a lousy teaching. The bible is fiction.

Any teaching that tells people they are sinners is a lousy teaching.

Any teaching that attempts to replace one's personal authority with the authority of a non-existent deity such as Jesus is a lousy teaching.

Any teaching that teaches you to be afraid of a non-existent deity such as god or jesus or satan is a lousy teaching.

Any teaching that tells me how to think is a lousy teaching.

 

P.S. I used to be an evangelist. All of us here used to be in the mind prison of christianity. Some were even preachers and seminary students. We left.

[Suzy]

Ok, Doug the Troll, I'll bite. Here's a question, or more of a challenge if you will:

Justify Judges 11:29-40

Won't quote the whole thing but it's about ritualistic human sacrifice of children,

only this time the protagonist actually kills his daughter unlike the cute little abraham

and isaac story where god steps in at the last minute and everything is cool.

Let's see what you got, buddy.

 

Okay, I didn't read the whole passage, but I'm sure it's like the others. Here's the deal ...

 

God's Plan was to produce His Messiah--Redeemer--Savior through the tiny nation of Israel.

Guess what, to do this God had to protect Israel from their more powerful enemies!

Enemies bent on destroying them. So, God had to fight some of their battles.

This also displayed to others why Israel called Him "Almighty God", etc.

Sometimes He thought it best to wipe out everything in sight ... as a big deterant for the future.

 

Heads up! ...

These people were destined for Hell anyway, so what's the big deal with going a few years early?

 

Which goes back to WHY was ALL of mankind destined to be separated from God.

I think all of you probably know that answer. But believing it is another matter, right?

It's all about belief and unbelief ... in God's spiritual Truth.

Believers get to spend eternity with God ... so, it's best to be a believer.

 

OK, first I thought Doug is for real, but reading this I think it's a POE/troll. I mean with this reasoning "skill" coupled with the arrogance he displays, he cannot be serious, can he?

[MrsRoper]

I'm new here, and I can promise you that many of your questions/comments

are the direct result of lousy teaching in the churches today.

 

God has seen to it that a lot of critical information has been provided in His Scriptures,

but obviously it has to be believed to be of any benefit to you.

 

A lot of basic information is explained in Genesis, for example, but of course, if you don't believe it,

you're just SOL.

 

For starters ...

 

God created both angels and humans to have free will.

He DESIRED these free-will creations (not robots) to praise Him and worship Him.

And He DESIRED to have humans on earth freely praise and worship Him.

Angels in heaven and humans on earth ... all praising and worshipping Him.

 

Okay, is this reasonable, or do we need to discuss this before continuing?

 

P.S. I used to be an evangelist, so no amount of persecution, etc. will faze me in the least.

 

Being free from the oppression of christian fear, guilt and manipulation isnt SOL, it is freedom. :-)

 

Freely praise and worship jesus or burn in hell if I refuse, right? I also can 'freely' pay taxes or go to prison for tax evasion. There's no freedom in either of these things. Christian freedom to follow jesus is really coercion.

 

You can promise me that many of my comments and questions are the direct result of lousy church teaching. Well, unless you are omniscient or managed to attend the church of every ex-c member on this website I would have to say you positively have NO idea what specific church teachings any of us have received.

 

However I would have to say that any church teaching that uses the bible is a lousy teaching. The bible is fiction.

Any teaching that tells people they are sinners is a lousy teaching.

Any teaching that attempts to replace one's personal authority with the authority of a non-existent deity such as Jesus is a lousy teaching.

Any teaching that teaches you to be afraid of a non-existent deity such as god or jesus or satan is a lousy teaching.

Any teaching that tells me how to think is a lousy teaching.

 

P.S. I used to be an evangelist. All of us here used to be in the mind prison of christianity. Some were even preachers and seminary students. We left.

 

I love this!

[scriptor]

That's why I'm here ... to explain stuff you've never heard before (whether anyone admits it or not).

 

Well thank GAWD you came along to enlighten us and save us from hell. Never mind that all of your "answers" so far have consisted of tired, recycled biblejabber that I have heard literally thousands of times before. Forgive me if I'm not rushing to reconvert.

 

By the way, I have lots of questions, but I won't ask you any of them. You wouldn't be able to answer them (whether you admit it or not).

[midniterider]

Ok, Doug the Troll, I'll bite. Here's a question, or more of a challenge if you will:

Justify Judges 11:29-40

Won't quote the whole thing but it's about ritualistic human sacrifice of children,

only this time the protagonist actually kills his daughter unlike the cute little abraham

and isaac story where god steps in at the last minute and everything is cool.

Let's see what you got, buddy.

 

Okay, I didn't read the whole passage, but I'm sure it's like the others. Here's the deal ...

 

God's Plan was to produce His Messiah--Redeemer--Savior through the tiny nation of Israel.

Guess what, to do this God had to protect Israel from their more powerful enemies!

Enemies bent on destroying them. So, God had to fight some of their battles.

This also displayed to others why Israel called Him "Almighty God", etc.

Sometimes He thought it best to wipe out everything in sight ... as a big deterant for the future.

 

Heads up! ...

These people were destined for Hell anyway, so what's the big deal with going a few years early?

 

Which goes back to WHY was ALL of mankind destined to be separated from God.

I think all of you probably know that answer. But believing it is another matter, right?

It's all about belief and unbelief ... in God's spiritual Truth.

Believers get to spend eternity with God ... so, it's best to be a believer.

 

So, if I believe I get to spend eternity with some homicidal maniac. Why is this a good thing? But this all goes back to your bible which is fiction. So it is pointless.

[Leith]

This thread is another fine example of Poe's law:

"Without a winking smiley or other blatant display of humor, it is impossible to create a parody of fundamentalism that someone won't mistake for the real thing."

 

I'm not sure, but I think that Doug is a real "True Christian™". Maybe we should set up a poll?

[midniterider]

So ok. I was born again. If you don't believe me, read my testimony. God's spirit is inside me. Still, when I ask God for directions, specific things like "should I marry this girl?", he gives me no clear answer. To do his will, I need to hear his answers clearly. How can I hear him clearly? Please don't quote scriptures. Give me something based on your own experience. Thank you.

 

Keep Asking, Seeking, Knocking

 

Matthew 7:

⁷ “Ask, and it will be given to you; seek, and you will find; knock, and it will be opened to you.

⁸ For everyone who asks receives, and he who seeks finds, and to him who knocks it will be opened.

⁹ Or what man is there among you who, if his son asks for bread, will give him a stone?

¹⁰ Or if he asks for a fish, will he give him a serpent?

¹¹ If you then, being evil, know how to give good gifts to your children, how much more will

your Father who is in heaven give good things to those who ask Him!

 

Yes, Jesus was talking to and about His 12 disciples ... and about all of mankind.

 

Also, be like the persistent widow who finally got what she wanted.

 

Jesus, I ask that Doug be swept off the face of the earth right now. Thank you.

[Leith]

Doug, I hope you realize that most of us do know the bible pretty well. We know a lot about apologetics. I doubt that you can give a response that we've never heard before.

So far, you didn't answer a single question satisfactorily. Maybe you can pick one question and try to answer it as best as you can?

 

Fellow Ex-C's: Maybe we could focus on one question at a time? Threads like this get cluttered really fast.

[midniterider]

Doug. Need to stop you right there. If this is going to go anywhere, you need to first provide support

for the authority of the bible before you can use the bible to answer questions.

We do not accept the bible as an authority on truth. Using the bible to prove its own authority is circular reasoning.

Give us a reason to accept it or don't use it on us, otherwise this conversation isn't going anywhere.

 

You know there's no absolute tangible proof for spiritual matters.

 

I gave my reasons for my total belief already:

-- the witness of God's Spirit

-- my experiences totally line up with God's word

 

P.S. Those not interested, totally bored, etc. ... why don't YOU leave the thread?

 

No tangible proof. No proof period would be more precise. So your praying, witnessing and all that you do as a christian is a waste of time.

[midniterider]

People need to understand their mortal enemy, Satan, and his fallen angels (demons).

They can easily deceive, side-track, etc. you into doing all kinds of terrible things.

You name it ... they can talk you into doing it. They can be very persistent until you give in.

 

IMO ...

 

Multitudes have always sat in church pews whose thinking may have been converted

(for some reason or other) into "believing" in Christianity, but they never were born again.

 

I do not believe someone who has been born again (from above) can just up and stop believing.

 

The Holy Spirit has come into these people to teach them "all things" (John 14:16-26).

 

 

So if I ASK SEEK AND KNOCK as it says in the book of Matthew , god may not open the door , but satan might open his door instead and confuse me into thinking I am saved. lolololol. Your use of bullshit is impeccable. I think Doug is Thumbelina. He says the same shit she does.

 

If we can't just up and stop believing then we dont have free will, but I thought we had free will. Hmmm.