What Killed Your Faith For Good?

[RipVanWinkle]

Vern: I was the exact same way you described yourself. I couldn't find anybody (but my own wife and family) that would indicate they had any concern about the abject poor. No one has yet given me an answer

that makes any sense. bill

[gigii45]

I don't think there is a transformation inside happening either, I think it is ourselves changing to become more christ-like by changing our behavior and also being more conscientious, it doesn't seem like anything outside of ourselves is doing this, only we are!

When I realised through a massive betrayal by christians that there was nothing supernatural going on inside them. They were no different from anyone else, despite the opposite being rammed down my throat by hte church for 36 years. It was all bullshit, all of it. For the third time in my life whent hey had the opportunity to support me and care, they just walked away.

[realism]

I've been deconverting for 5+ years.  I really couldn't associate myself with Christianity out of a sense of moral obligation and simply due to morals when getting entrenched in the gay rights movement.  The attitude of most Christians was so apathetic (if not gun ho anti gay) and sickening.  

 

However, I think it was going on one gay Christian website and reading the comments on a page (this is a pro-gay site) that really put the nails in the coffin.  The webmaster, in reply to some comment, said something along the lines that atheist gays were the ones living sexually promiscuous lives.  From the gay men and women I know who are gay and atheist, I knew this was a load of horse sh*t.  And then I realized, Christians, even the progressive ones, will make up stuff about a dissenting group just to rationalize why they are supposedly better than everyone else.  It was a total force.  So that simple comment was when I realized, this crap was pointless.  Christianity, even when I was hardcore about it, did not make me a better person and it's not making them better people, from what I see, and the people I've come to admire most often were atheists whose morals were acted on out of reason and because doing good is good, not because someone told them "be good or else."

[milesaway]

I've been deconverting for 5+ years.  I really couldn't associate myself with Christianity out of a sense of moral obligation and simply due to morals when getting entrenched in the gay rights movement.  The attitude of most Christians was so apathetic (if not gun ho anti gay) and sickening.  

 

However, I think it was going on one gay Christian website and reading the comments on a page (this is a pro-gay site) that really put the nails in the coffin.  The webmaster, in reply to some comment, said something along the lines that atheist gays were the ones living sexually promiscuous lives.  From the gay men and women I know who are gay and atheist, I knew this was a load of horse sh*t.  And then I realized, Christians, even the progressive ones, will make up stuff about a dissenting group just to rationalize why they are supposedly better than everyone else.  It was a total force.  So that simple comment was when I realized, this crap was pointless.  Christianity, even when I was hardcore about it, did not make me a better person and it's not making them better people, from what I see, and the people I've come to admire most often were atheists whose morals were acted on out of reason and because doing good is good, not because someone told them "be good or else."

 

Welcome, realism! I agree, i could never reconcile how xtians claimed they loved those who are gay, yet how in the same breath they talk shit about them and treat them like it as well. Some people i've met over the years, (a couple of whom i met well before xtianity ever got its claws in me), are gay, one's married to his longtime lover, another married the girlfriend she's known since high school, and some teachers i had back in college are gay as well. It sickened me to hear the people i tried to associate with at the last church i went to say all these horrible things about gays, and it tore me apart knowing they were talking about old family friends and former teachers i really liked. It was one of the nails in the coffin for me too. I couldn't live with myself knowing that by staying, i would be affirming and rewarding their bigotry.

 

There's nothing worth admiring in xtianity. I saw that myself in my three years of church hopping. Any good they do will never be done out of basic human decency, it's b/c they think they HAVE to, and it's got strings attached. They will never do good for the sake of goodness. Xtians don't have the market cornered on morality, and religion is not a requirement in order to have a sense of right and wrong. We're living proof of it.

[RipVanWinkle]

milesaway: Xtians don't really love gays. They say that they do because that's what they are told they

are supposed to do. bill

[antix]

xians do not love anything. Was visiting a friend and his family 4 hrs from here for the weekend and yes, we put it away. My buddy is pure heathen and a good person. Treats people great, has compassion, can drink a ton and does not judge..  We were outside drinking and I said something to him about losing my faith and he says " I know, it sucks to think we go into a hole in the ground and that is it" but hey, it is the most logical explanation

milesaway: Xtians don't really love gays. They say that they do because that's what they are told they
are supposed to do. bill

[milesaway]

milesaway: Xtians don't really love gays. They say that they do because that's what they are told they

are supposed to do. bill

 

Like my signature says, actions speak louder than words. Their actions toward anyone who's gay (or anyone who's not exactly like them for that matter) reveal the truth about what kind of people they really are, and their words to the contrary are meaningless.

[antix]

Ding Ding Ding    We have a winner.  All I hear is anti gay, anti abortion rhetoric (but being pro war is biblical and holy).   Fuck the xians

 

milesaway: Xtians don't really love gays. They say that they do because that's what they are told they
are supposed to do. bill

 

Like my signature says, actions speak louder than words. Their actions toward anyone who's gay (or anyone who's not exactly like them for that matter) reveal the truth about what kind of people they really are, and their words to the contrary are meaningless.

[Shia]

I am new here and for the past few days I have been taking a serious look at my faith. a little bit of background: I was raised christian my whole life, I always had questions, esp the fact that only jesus saves, yet there are millions of people and whole generations and lands full of people who never heard of jesus. I never got an answer for this question from any spiritual leader. what did it for me, the defining moment of me saying that this is complete BS is I got a job doing childcare at a church that wasn't my 'home' church. this being said I would work Sunday mornings Wednesday evenings. my parents informed my youth pastors that i had a job and would be coming in late to church on Sundays and Wednesdays, however my youth pastors decided to tell lies about me to the rest of the youth and church basically saying I was out there doing drugs and all sorts of nonsense when I was at another church! If that wasn't bad enough (I was 16 BTW ..)I got called into a pastoral meeting with the senior pastor at the church,( I had been going to that church since I was 3 yrs old mind you) and he told my parents that I was not coming to church because I was sinning. my parents explained that they let to YP know that i ha a job. when the pastor asked me where I worked i told him the name of the other church. this pastor who I had known my WHOLE life, who I was raised to respect and believe to be a man of god looked me straight in my eyes and told me " maybe you should just go to that church from now on since you cant keep the schedule of this church" I was devastated. not only had my youth pastors been spreading vicious lies and rumors about me, my senior pastor just basically told me to get out of his church-yet expected my parents to still go every week. now everyone knows you associate your place of worship as a second home and family, and a job just wont change that. I never went back to church after that. however I was hurt again by the fact that my parents still went faithfully every week... and my family is a WHOLE other issue in itself!! but that was the turning point for me. If pastors who are supposed to lead in love and be the example of christ then I wanted nothing to do with it. ( I'm 26 now so its taken me quite a while to get to this point-mainly because I didn't dwell on it but as more realizations came to me well I'm on a journey that led me right here to this site  )

[TrueFreedom]

Welcome, Shia.  That's unbelievable that those pastors treated you that way.  Have you tried talking sense into your parents about this?  Why do they still respect them as leaders?  That's crazy!  Welcome to freedom!  Be glad that you are no longer part of the madness!

[antix]

wow.. so sad. I can't think of anything more painful than losing your child.

 

The worst part is that there are people who will lay the "god is just testing you" , and "he's in a better place", "it was god's will", crap on her, which is blaming the victim, making light of her pain, and instilling guilt on top of a persons grief. yup.. god is 'love', but uses tragedy and loss to 'test' his followers...

 

I'm beginning to think that religion is just a way to avoid the fact that SHIT HAPPENS and it doesn't have any meaning at all. (sorry- but my own experience with the way people deal with others grief pisses me off)

 

sickening.

 

Yup and this saying it is God's will is in contradiction to saying God will do anything for you.  

[roadrunner]

however I was hurt again by the fact that my parents still went faithfully every week... and my family is a WHOLE other issue in itself!! but that was the turning point for me. If pastors who are supposed to lead in love and be the example of christ then I wanted nothing to do with it. ( I'm 26 now so its taken me quite a while to get to this point-mainly because I didn't dwell on it but as more realizations came to me well I'm on a journey that led me right here to this site  )

Thats terrible. Shame on that pastor. I was waiting for silver lining in that your parents got to see that happen but they sold you out. Welcome to the club here. No one here will sell you out like that. 

[antix]

Off on a tangent: but my non believer or borderline believer friends and family are the most honest and trustworthy. As of right now, I have basically cut off communications with most fundys except for one who tends to be open minded and non judgmental. 

[milesaway]

I am new here and for the past few days I have been taking a serious look at my faith. a little bit of background: I was raised christian my whole life, I always had questions, esp the fact that only jesus saves, yet there are millions of people and whole generations and lands full of people who never heard of jesus. I never got an answer for this question from any spiritual leader. what did it for me, the defining moment of me saying that this is complete BS is I got a job doing childcare at a church that wasn't my 'home' church. this being said I would work Sunday mornings Wednesday evenings. my parents informed my youth pastors that i had a job and would be coming in late to church on Sundays and Wednesdays, however my youth pastors decided to tell lies about me to the rest of the youth and church basically saying I was out there doing drugs and all sorts of nonsense when I was at another church! If that wasn't bad enough (I was 16 BTW ..)I got called into a pastoral meeting with the senior pastor at the church,( I had been going to that church since I was 3 yrs old mind you) and he told my parents that I was not coming to church because I was sinning. my parents explained that they let to YP know that i ha a job. when the pastor asked me where I worked i told him the name of the other church. this pastor who I had known my WHOLE life, who I was raised to respect and believe to be a man of god looked me straight in my eyes and told me " maybe you should just go to that church from now on since you cant keep the schedule of this church" I was devastated. not only had my youth pastors been spreading vicious lies and rumors about me, my senior pastor just basically told me to get out of his church-yet expected my parents to still go every week. now everyone knows you associate your place of worship as a second home and family, and a job just wont change that. I never went back to church after that. however I was hurt again by the fact that my parents still went faithfully every week... and my family is a WHOLE other issue in itself!! but that was the turning point for me. If pastors who are supposed to lead in love and be the example of christ then I wanted nothing to do with it. ( I'm 26 now so its taken me quite a while to get to this point-mainly because I didn't dwell on it but as more realizations came to me well I'm on a journey that led me right here to this site  )

What worthless human beings! Fuck those pastors and the horses they rode in on. Unfortunately this kind of behavior among xtians and their church leaders doesn't surprise me one iota. Sorry those church leaders (who've known you for a long time and should really know better) turned on you and talked shit about you behind your back. How petty of them. I'm glad you believed them when they showed you who they really were, you've spared yourself a ton of misery. Too bad your parents betrayed you as well by choosing to continue giving those assholes the time of day, despite knowing what they put you through. In any case, i'm glad you're out of there and away from them now.

 

Something similar happened to my grandma. She used to go to church every Sunday, until they got a new pastor. My grandma was dealing with some issues, and she needed help. She turned to their pastor, and their pastor totally dropped the ball and blamed her for her problems. She invested so much time in that church, and she was really respected among them. She called it quits after that day, and she never went back. I don't blame her. I'd get the hell outta there too.

[milesaway]

Off on a tangent: but my non believer or borderline believer friends and family are the most honest and trustworthy. As of right now, I have basically cut off communications with most fundys except for one who tends to be open minded and non judgmental. 

 

I realized that too. Xtians have proven to be some of the worst "friends" i've ever had in my whole life. All the xtian "friends" i made are out of my life, and i'm wondering why the hell i didn't sever ties with them sooner. All lines of communication between me and them are gone. The friends i had before they came along have nothing to do with religion, and they're a whole lot more trustworthy than those xtian assholes ever dreamed of being.

[antix]

 

Off on a tangent: but my non believer or borderline believer friends and family are the most honest and trustworthy. As of right now, I have basically cut off communications with most fundys except for one who tends to be open minded and non judgmental. 

 

I realized that too. Xtians have proven to be some of the worst "friends" i've ever had in my whole life. All the xtian "friends" i made are out of my life, and i'm wondering why the hell i didn't sever ties with them sooner. All lines of communication between me and them are gone. The friends i had before they came along have nothing to do with religion, and they're a whole lot more trustworthy than those xtian assholes ever dreamed of being.

 

 

Worst friends indeed and total backstabbers. At work the xians tend to be huge backstabbers and gossipers. I have one friend, not religious at all, but took his kids to church for the thing to do. He has no religious beliefs at all, yet leads a missionary youth group to WV and KY every summer to do repairs on the homes of poor people. He has to go to india for work and takes a bunch of extra cash to hand out to the poor. A truly great individual.   I have one Xian friend I dumped before my beliefs started to wane: the greediest person I ever met and lying was ok if he could make a sale and every other word out of his mouth was a lie. He tried to push an investment on me which sounded great until I investigated it and then I found out he makes a 12 percent commission and he knew he was screwing me, so I just said bye, don't ever talk to me again.

[milesaway]

 

 

Off on a tangent: but my non believer or borderline believer friends and family are the most honest and trustworthy. As of right now, I have basically cut off communications with most fundys except for one who tends to be open minded and non judgmental. 

 

I realized that too. Xtians have proven to be some of the worst "friends" i've ever had in my whole life. All the xtian "friends" i made are out of my life, and i'm wondering why the hell i didn't sever ties with them sooner. All lines of communication between me and them are gone. The friends i had before they came along have nothing to do with religion, and they're a whole lot more trustworthy than those xtian assholes ever dreamed of being.

 

 

Worst friends indeed and total backstabbers. At work the xians tend to be huge backstabbers and gossipers. I have one friend, not religious at all, but took his kids to church for the thing to do. He has no religious beliefs at all, yet leads a missionary youth group to WV and KY every summer to do repairs on the homes of poor people. He has to go to india for work and takes a bunch of extra cash to hand out to the poor. A truly great individual.   I have one Xian friend I dumped before my beliefs started to wane: the greediest person I ever met and lying was ok if he could make a sale and every other word out of his mouth was a lie. He tried to push an investment on me which sounded great until I investigated it and then I found out he makes a 12 percent commission and he knew he was screwing me, so I just said bye, don't ever talk to me again.

 

 

Ha, with friends like that, who needs enemies? I even saw the cattiness and cruelty a lot at the xtian forum i used to post at. Glad you were able to sniff out that guy's bullshit and end the friendship before he screwed you over! You dodged a bullet with that one. It always bugged me to no end that a lot of xtians i talked to would treat the concept of empathy, honesty and authenticity like they're completely foreign ideas that they've never heard of before.

[antix]

My best friends to this day are the ones in college I partied with to the max. Xians have no idea of empathy or honesty, just a convoluted view they use a handful of verses to back themselves up with. In fact, quck story: back in 04, and I knew a month in advance, the same asshole was driving to Cleveland and I needed a ride the same day, but his Xian ass said no just to be an ass, A heathen friend 250 miles away offered to come in to take me, but at the last minute a friend in Cleveland said he would give me the ride. The Xian ass who lived 10 minutes away who said no, enjoys power over people for some reason

[duderonomy]

Leaving aside the books I'd read about the Bible, and without the preachers I'd heard (in person and on TV and radio and tape), and putting on hold what I was taught as a child, and actually reading the Bible for myself did it for me.

I bought a Bible with no footnotes, no cross-references, no maps, no nothing, on purpose. In a nod to my current (then) self, I got a King James Version. Reading it for myself is what did it for me.

I didn't lose my faith because of butt-headed people in the church or the butt-headed preachers, and I encountered many of both. I didn't lose my faith because it didn't fit, as I did my best to fit myself to it, and of course I did so with the Help of God Himself that I'd prayed to, according to his will.

 

Yeah, when I read it for myself.

[traveller2]

I finally broke through  a stucture built on belief in gud as a real being that had kept me going for fifteen yrs in the face of the dichotomy and vast gulf between what christians say about love (an I assumed by extension acceptance of each other including me) and what was reality.I really did belive but christians were total cunts.I followed the pap eveangelical line that they were maybe not true christians or had not expereinced a deepeniong of faith or were sunday christians.It was to their eternal peril that they behaved like that.

Then two things happened very quickly.1)I went to theological college and found the same thing there and somthing broke.

2)My marraige came to an end;similar reasons actually,i just couldn't take her emotional shit/baggage anymore.

 

Everyone rallied round my ex wife coz i was the asshole husband gggrrrr and she was the sweet rejected christian wife.Behind closed doors it was quite different.I could never see how folk could not use their imagination and wonder if there was more to it than what they wanted to see.Later even a stranger told me 'there is ur side,her side and the truth'.However the great men of the church (who probably wanted inside my ex wifes knickers) could not see this.

That was the end of it for me.Fifeteen yrs of subtle rejection followed by finding it even from trainee ministers. Then the divorce showed me who my freinds were.

[antix]

 

 

 

Off on a tangent: but my non believer or borderline believer friends and family are the most honest and trustworthy. As of right now, I have basically cut off communications with most fundys except for one who tends to be open minded and non judgmental. 

 

I realized that too. Xtians have proven to be some of the worst "friends" i've ever had in my whole life. All the xtian "friends" i made are out of my life, and i'm wondering why the hell i didn't sever ties with them sooner. All lines of communication between me and them are gone. The friends i had before they came along have nothing to do with religion, and they're a whole lot more trustworthy than those xtian assholes ever dreamed of being.

 

 

Worst friends indeed and total backstabbers. At work the xians tend to be huge backstabbers and gossipers. I have one friend, not religious at all, but took his kids to church for the thing to do. He has no religious beliefs at all, yet leads a missionary youth group to WV and KY every summer to do repairs on the homes of poor people. He has to go to india for work and takes a bunch of extra cash to hand out to the poor. A truly great individual.   I have one Xian friend I dumped before my beliefs started to wane: the greediest person I ever met and lying was ok if he could make a sale and every other word out of his mouth was a lie. He tried to push an investment on me which sounded great until I investigated it and then I found out he makes a 12 percent commission and he knew he was screwing me, so I just said bye, don't ever talk to me again.

 

 

Ha, with friends like that, who needs enemies? I even saw the cattiness and cruelty a lot at the xtian forum i used to post at. Glad you were able to sniff out that guy's bullshit and end the friendship before he screwed you over! You dodged a bullet with that one. It always bugged me to no end that a lot of xtians i talked to would treat the concept of empathy, honesty and authenticity like they're completely foreign ideas that they've never heard of before.

 

I tried a couple Xian forums and then became really pissed. It is like saying anything against the Iraq war or GW Bush was blasphemy. Even though I am conservative, I am socially liberal and any statement that way would piss them off. Just for shits and giggles I posted once "Should a Christian own guns"     Man, did they react to that one with tons of responses coming in like I have 18 guns or I sleep with a loaded gun under the bed etc

[FloridaGirl]

Asking myself questions:

 

1. If there is a loving God, why would he allow 27 million slaves, 40, 000 people dying each day of preventable diseases, etc. Why would he answer my prayers to, say, get a good grade on a test, and let others die? It just seemed so narcassistic to me.

 

2. Why would a loving God, who created people in His own image send people to rot forever in Hell for all eternity just for believing or acing different than a prescribed " plan of salvation" says they should?

 

3. The Bible says that when you allow Jesus into your life, you recieve the holy spirit. Fruits of the holy spirit include love, kindness, patience, etc. If this is true, why do Christians act no different than anyone else? There are loving, kind ones; incredibly mean ones, and everything in between. The same can be applied to anyone else in the world. I also became a Christian later in my life and did not notice changes like these in my own life either. I was still faced with the same problems and same joys I had before I "accepted Jesus".

 

No theology books I have read (and I read way too many) provided adequate answers to these questions. Then when I started watching debates between Christians and Atheists, the Atheists always made more sense.

[ExXex]

I think things begun to unravell for me when I read Snowcrash by Neal Stephenson,  not that I took it to be truth or anything, just one of the concepts within it niggled at me, I don't think it was even one of the main elements of the story because I can't actually remember what it was, but it stewed away. How perfectly constucted to spread itself and embed itself in our lives Christianity was seeming more of a suspicious thing than a proof of God's plan.

And then for a lovely period of my life I felt utterly corrupt and useless and the letting of someone like me into heaven didn't make sense, I felt I deserved oblivion.

And then I realised I felt corrupt and sinful because I didn't believe anymore, and this was how the church had programmed me to react to this.

I hung on a bit thinking maybe I'll get better but then I went to this church event (not even one of those extremist churches) where the preacher declared:

- Gays shouldn't marry because their bits don't go together (this just seemed such an arbitary and blinkered decision)

- You should only date people you want to marry, but should treat them as a sibling until marriage, all sexual arousal outside marriage is sinful (yay I'm sure repressing natural instincts makes for a healthy mindset)

- Women shouldn't wear revealing clothes to 'help out' men in keeping themselves pure (awkward I was wearing hotpants at the time)

- A lovely little anecdote where rape (and adultary but also rape) had made a woman dirty and required her husband to pretend nothing had happened so she could be pure again

- Women should submit to their husbands, men should lead their relationships.

- Wanting to date a non-christian shouldn't be a problem because why would you want to anyway? (er... because you love them?)

Half of this made perfect sense if you were looking at things through bible-lenses, and I had become accustomed to interrogating things a pastor had said with the bible as a reference. But this rapey anecdote had made me angry, I challenged my christian friends and they blinked vacantly at me and told me I was interpretting it wrong. They defended this anecdote which was quite plainly harmful and wrong at the first mention of 'rape' in conjunction to it because there was a man standing behind a block of wood with a book in his hand who told it to them.

So I went home. Had a massive rant about it at my boyfriend (who I loved despite being a non-christian shock horror) who listened patiently until I eventually came out with 'I'm not a christian'. Then of course he got all upset that he wasn't going to get a nice meek future-wife/sister who wore several layers of loft insulation so men may not see her cleavage and we promptly broke up.*

*not actually true

[Ramen666]

Unanswered prayers and hypocricy within religion, over and over and over and over again. I knew something stank while I was a little kid being a Christian but couldn't put my finger on it. That led to anger, stronger anger, that anger led to questioning, that questioning led me to the website evilbible.com Back then, I never was a member there or anything but I started reading the articles, and the verses that shows the evils in the Bible. Which that led to even more of a downward spiral out of the religion. This is not the God that they sing about, talk about in Church, this is something completly different I thought.

 

Then what I got me interested in deconversion shortly after (because I had never even known what shit goes on within the church, never came in my mind), is deconversion stories. I read evil bibles deconversion stories in their forums, and basically read them all to the point I wanted to find more about this, then this website came up.

 

The rest is basically history, I read this site for months and months (probably 6 months as a guest) before I actually joined, i enjoyed reading the deabtes. I knew from that point on in 2005, there is no turning back. It is like you can unseen the corruption, the lies, the manipulation, once they are exposed out in the open. I went to church (as you see in another thread) 2 weeks ago, damn It is so awkward and embarrassing that people believe that shit.

[FloridaGirl]

I hung on a bit thinking maybe I'll get better but then I went to this church event (not even one of those extremist churches) where the preacher declared:

- Gays shouldn't marry because their bits don't go together (this just seemed such an arbitary and blinkered decision)

- You should only date people you want to marry, but should treat them as a sibling until marriage, all sexual arousal outside marriage is sinful (yay I'm sure repressing natural instincts makes for a healthy mindset)

- Women shouldn't wear revealing clothes to 'help out' men in keeping themselves pure (awkward I was wearing hotpants at the time)

- A lovely little anecdote where rape (and adultary but also rape) had made a woman dirty and required her husband to pretend nothing had happened so she could be pure again

- Women should submit to their husbands, men should lead their relationships.

- Wanting to date a non-christian shouldn't be a problem because why would you want to anyway? (er... because you love them?)

Half of this made perfect sense if you were looking at things through bible-lenses, and I had become accustomed to interrogating things a pastor had said with the bible as a reference. But this rapey anecdote had made me angry, I challenged my christian friends and they blinked vacantly at me and told me I was interpretting it wrong. They defended this anecdote which was quite plainly harmful and wrong at the first mention of 'rape' in conjunction to it because there was a man standing behind a block of wood with a book in his hand who told it to them.

Wow. I have heard most of this same stuff from Christians I know and thought they were just isolated nut jobs. I had no idea how common this line of reasoning was. May I ask what denomination the preacher was?