"Why Christians Just Don't Get It"

[Checkmate]

Ssel, I must confess that I haven't the vaguest idea of what you're talking about. I don't see how anything you're saying relates to my OP.

 

I've stated, rather simply, that arguing with Christians is pointless, since they won't listen to reason. They can't afford to question or doubt. Maintaining faith is the highest, most noble goal, despite ALL well-reasoned arguments.

 

Meanwhile, they will use reason against other religions.

 

I don't understand WHAT your posting has to do with ANY of what I've written.

 

Your last post asked how do we fix something. Fix what? "Formulas"? Fear? Fight or flight reflex? Monsters Inc.®? I haven't the foggiest idea what any of this has to do with the price of tea in China. MY subject is about hypocrisy and double standards used by Christians. What are YOU talking about?

 

Maybe if you could connect the dots a little better, then I could see the connection. But as it stands right now, I'm not getting the gist of your jive.

[Reach]

Unfortunately, this thread has attracted a total of 123 posts, all deleted, about half by an anonymous spambot and the other half by our various members who wished to post that we were being spammed... just in case we didn't notice?!?

 

Seriously, I'm sad to report that this thread is closed at the request of Mr. Grinch. Perhaps he will take up this worthy discussion in a new thread, at some other time.

 

-Reach

[Reach]

As we seem to have gotten rid of our spambot problem, this thread is reopened at the request of Mr. Grinch.

 

Happy hunting. ;-)

 

-Reach

[All Gods Fail]

As we seem to have gotten rid of our spambot problem, this thread is reopened at the request of Mr. Grinch.

 

Happy hunting. ;-)

 

-Reach

 

Hmm...it's just not the same without Ssel's thread-killing, chowderhead observations. How will we ever continue without his enlightened yapping?

 

Anyway, as usual Grinchy has his finger right on the problem:

 

The most maddening thing about Christians is that they are fully capable of utilizing reason and rational thinking to debunk, dismiss and disprove all OTHER religions. And yet when it comes to their OWN religion, they suddenly become lobotomy patients.

 

What more can you add to that?

[jrmarlin]

The most maddening thing about Christians is that they are fully capable of utilizing reason and rational thinking to debunk, dismiss and disprove all OTHER religions. And yet when it comes to their OWN religion, they suddenly become lobotomy patients.

My problem is that I see just about EVERY one doing that same thing. Not merely religions, but all of the anti-religions, governments, activist groups, you name it.

 

How many people really, really are willing to seriously examine the purity of theirown thoughts and motives?

 

=============================

and MERRY CHRISTMAS CHRISTMAS CHRISTMAS

 

(not to be narrow minded, of course)

If everyone were jumping off of the Brooklyn Bridge would that make it right?

 

Probably not.

 

And no, everyone in anti-religion is not doing it. It is Xians that believe their mindless dribble so much. They are mind-fucked so bad, that when a person who does not subscribe to their shit talks, immediately they accuse them of being unintelligent and not listening to reason. This is not the non-religion person's fault. It is the perception of the Xian - - the "I'm right you're wrong" continum that keeps the momentum.

 

Its very simple. You don't want to wake up - be unplugged, don't. But don't try to sell your crazy shit to others and pass it off as "fact" or "reason" because that's false advertising. Fraud. Xianity has always been a fraud. The Bible is a FRAUD. It's a glorified comic book about a cartoon character named Jesus and his imaginary friend that tells him what he can and cannot do... as per some group of priests back in the late 13th century. Big fucking deal. Who gives a shit.

 

I don't believe in the Easter Bunny... I don't believe that Garfield is a real cat that talks to his friend Odie. And I am not going to believe that bible is God's gospel or that Jesus was the be all, end all of a path to God.

 

There are more ways than one to Oklahoma.... There are more ways than one to England. Therefore, I can't help but think there are more ways than one to God. And if being in a brain-dead, death cult like xianity is it, then I guess I won't be gettin' to God.

[Checkmate]

Just bumping up the thread. I don't want any of our visiting Christians to accuse me of not giving them a chance to tell me how wrong I am. The thread is unlocked and waiting for participants.

 

(Yo-hoo! Chris de Vidal! I'm waiting!!! )

 

Understanding Delusion

[jrmarlin]

Just bumping up the thread. I don't want any of our visiting Christians to accuse me of not giving them a chance to tell me how wrong I am. The thread is unlocked and waiting for participants.

 

(Yo-hoo! Chris de Vidal! I'm waiting!!! )

 

Understanding Delusion

Mr. G. I think you scared the shit out of the critter. That's just an observation. He doesn't talk when you're on. You might want to ghost and see what happens.

[Checkmate]

Mr. G. I think you scared the shit out of the critter. That's just an observation. He doesn't talk when you're on. You might want to ghost and see what happens.

You could be correct, jr. I DO seem to have that impact on some cowards people. I don't know why, though. My words are no more biting and truthful than anyone else's. (SkepticofBible, kicks much ass, BTW!) Oh well.

 

Anyway, suggestion noted. I'll fade into the woodwork, again, and see if anyone steps into my trap participates.

[lothartx]

Mr Grinch,

 

First, I agreed with your first post, pretty much. It tells a significant explanation although not the entire story.

 

But do you agree that to a large degree, those SCC do not see themselves as non-thinking people? They believe that maintaining faith is the smart thing to do. I'm not arguing the truth of this, but is it agreed that they mostly do not see themselves of irrational, non-thinking people?

 

 

I would say that most fundies I know take that view. However, I find the oppisite to be true. You can be a thinker only if you think in a "Christ like manner". You can disagree within very limited bounds and you are limited as what is acceptable to read/research. This can be applied overtly or in a more manipulative subversive manner, using fear and emotion. I see it everday, dude.

 

^^

What this has to do with the price of tea in China, I have no clue.

[Checkmate]

Bump.

 

I believe it's time for this thread to be unearthed again for visiting Christians who may be too lazy to dig for it.

 

See also Under Delusion and Compartmentalization.

[Checkmate]

Mine Jesu'...

 

Peace...

Wow, Amy. What a monumentally insightful reparte. Your post was so full of wisdom and eloquence that I had to read it twice to absorb all of it's impact. I'll attempt to live up to your exacting standards and reply in kind. Here we go...

 

 

 

P.S. - I retract my past compliment I gave you for having the good sense to leave these forums, since you lied and remained to post drivel and continue in pointless mud slinging and self-flagellation. You're an ignorant cunt. Begone. If you can't refute me with logic, then remain forever silent. I have no respect for idiocy.

[Checkmate]

Good grief, Charlie Brown. Now she's gone from paintings to cartoon analogies.

 

Amy Marie, why doesn't it surprise me that the woman who believes in God/Jesus, also believes that the cartoon story of the Grinch is prophetic of a real person's life? Your delusion is complete. You're officially a nutjob.

 

Now, is that all you've got, or will you use any other creative ways to ignore the substance of this thread? (Thereby proving the point I've made about Christians not getting it.)

[Legion]

Amy Marie, I thought that you had left. You said that you were no longer going to post here at least. I believe that you said that you might look in on occassion but that you were no longer going to post.

 

I can't help but wonder what it is that you extract or derive from the experience of coming here. There must be something that you get from it or I doubt that you would return.

 

I don't suppose that you'll ever tell us why you continue to come here.

[Thackerie]

... Now Charlie Brown's Christmas... that had a good message too.

 

Yes, it was opposing excessive consumerism, as I recall.

 

The Peanuts special called "It's The Great Pumpkin, Charlie Brown" conveyed an even better message -- and one more pertinent to a discussion of religion. It was when Linus says, "The way I see it, Charlie Brown, it doesn't matter what you believe as long as you're sincere."

Wise man, that Charles Schultz. Much more logical and compassionate than those fundie xians who would condemn good people to eternal torment just for not believing what they do.

[jauggy]

This is a very interesting thread and I agree with the first post. And perhaps I realise my error. Whenever I debate with a Christian I assume we are seeking the same thing: truth. But the Christian doesn't care about truth at all. He believes that his faith is the highest good so that he will deny truth in order to keep his faith.

 

Exactly what can we do if the Christian believes that his faith is the best thing that he can have? Perhaps a change in debating tactics is needed.

[Checkmate]

I hope others will take up your challenge Mr.Grinch. I really don't want to argue with you because I have already done that faith verses logic debate concerning all sorts of Christian beliefs.

 

Now Charlie Brown's Christmas... that had a good message too.

Y'see, THIS is why I hate trying to talk to you, Amy Marie. You so obviously lack the reading comprehension skills necessary to carry on a dialogue.

 

First you call my thread "a challenge", when it is NO SUCH THING. A challenge to do what? I dare you to find it. The ONLY purpose of this thread was to outline the frustrating dilemma we face when attempting to have an intelligent debate with Christians. Since you Christians DON'T THINK nor REASON, and you hide behind your shield of faith at all costs, those of us who do use reason GET ANGRY and frustrated with you. (As you have so AMPLY demonstrated during your tenure on these boards.)

 

Second, you claim not to want to argue with me. Then...why are you here?!?!? It seems to me that the BEST way to avoid an argument with anyone is to AVOID THEM and their post. Especially when you have nothing pertinent to add to the conversation. When you KNOW that anything you say is going to raise hackles and piss people off, yet you do it anyway, THAT is the modus operandi of a trouble making psycho and an attention whore. You say that you KNOW that you are out of your depth with us, and yet you continue to futz around here.

 

I agree with everyone else who has accused you of having some NEED to remain amongst us. I won't even waste my time with arm chair psycho babble, but it's painfully obvious that you need us a helluva lot more than we need you. Else why be here?

 

And finally, as to the "good messages" of Charlie Brown and the Grinch and Spider-Man and Superman (Kal-el, Jesus Christ/hero myth parody)...you're right. They do have good messages of love and family and compassion. So what? That is the entire purpose of a good STORY/MYTH. To INSPIRE goodness in society. That doesn't mean you should BELIEVE THAT THE CHARACTERS ARE REAL!!!

 

"Jesus Christ" is as real as the Grinch and Cindy Lou Who! What is so fucking hard to comprehend about that?!? Sheesh. You need to grow the fuck up and stop sucking on that Christ-pacifier, lady. You're an embarrassment to all rational, THINKING adults.

[Legion]

Amy Marie, I thought that you had left. You said that you were no longer going to post here at least. I believe that you said that you might look in on occassion but that you were no longer going to post.

 

I can't help but wonder what it is that you extract or derive from the experience of coming here. There must be something that you get from it or I doubt that you would return.

 

I don't suppose that you'll ever tell us why you continue to come here.

 

Yes. You're right. You also remembered I said I would look in on occassion. When I see a topic that practically shouts "HEY CHRISTIANS!!!" I figure I'm one so I'll answer. Did you ever notice in the Lion's Den Christians are even invited to commit unpardonable acts like agressive evangelism? Hey, I didn't write the rules.

 

Amy, I'll give you this; you're persistent. If you are here to do some aggressive evangelizing then I can't imagine a worse place to do it. I for one am not trying to imply that you are unwelcome here. It just seems to me that you put yourself through needless toil for what will more than likely prove to be a fruitless endeavor.

 

If you could see yourself through my eyes then perhaps you might understand why some here hurl names at you. From my perspective you do appear to be a little tweaked or twisted. But hey from your perspective, I suppose, if you can bring even one "lost soul" back to the fold then you will have succeeded. I don't think that will happen, but of course you are always free to try.

[Kuroikaze]

I do understand why they hurl names a me. People are careful to let me know exactly what they feel and why. At least you're nice even though you may not agree with me. Hey, tweaked and twisted isn't so bad. Sounds like a good name for a heavy metal band.

 

Hey, woudn't you prefer a rude honestly to polite lies? Of course your welcome to evanglize here...and we are welcome to flame you when you do, that is also part of the rules for lions den.

[Checkmate]

Actually polite honesty. No I'm just kidding. Did you ever hear news casters or talk radio show hosts read hate mail? It's really funny.

 

Did you ever hear the one about the bear and the rabbit shitting in the woods? It's really funny, too.

 

 

WTF am I supposed to make of this post, Amy Marie? Jesus Fucking Christ on a crutch shoved up his divine ass with ranch dressing! If you can't say anything intelligible or debate-worthy, then DON'T POST!!!! Go take a shit on someone else's thread.

[Scott]

Actually polite honesty. No I'm just kidding. Did you ever hear news casters or talk radio show hosts read hate mail? It's really funny.

 

Did you ever hear the one about the bear and the rabbit shitting in the woods? It's really funny, too.

 

 

WTF am I supposed to make of this post, Amy Marie? Jesus Fucking Christ on a crutch shoved up his divine ass with ranch dressing! If you can't say anything intelligible or debate-worthy, then DON'T POST!!!! Go take a shit on someone else's thread.

 

Wow. That's amazing. Obviously you have some issues...

[Checkmate]

Amy Marie, please TRY and follow the logic of my words.

 

I did INTENTIONALLY provide the link to this post. Both for YOU and SCOTT and ANYONE else who had either not read it, or had forgotten it.

 

WHY did I do that? To call attention to the fact that my post was PROPHETIC and accurate concerning what happens when dealing with Christians mired in their fantasy lives. I was pointing out the fact that everyone was wasting time arguing with people (Xians) who refused to listen to reason. I was showcasing how I had predicted with 100% accuracy what would happen when Xians and unbelievers clashed.

 

And of course YOU missed this point completely. Gee, what a surprise.

 

P.S. - And no I don't have "issues". I just know what tricks to use to get YOUR attention. I KNOW you, Amy Marie. I know that if I use logic, reason and kind words of intelligent discourse, then you won't respond. You flee and ignore logic. Yet you're attracted like flies to shit to any sort of venom and vitriol from me. You ALWAYS reply to my hostility. THAT is why I use it. And like clockwork, here you are.

[Asimov]

Now Charlie Brown's Christmas... that had a good message too.

 

Did it have anything to do with you shutting the fuck up?

[Kuroikaze]

Actually polite honesty. No I'm just kidding. Did you ever hear news casters or talk radio show hosts read hate mail? It's really funny.

 

I understand what your saying, but you have to understand that you ARE allowed to voice your opinions. If you weren't we would simply ban you. You just can't expect us to agree with you...and the rules for the lions den do state to expected heated responses.

[Checkmate]

Thank you Mr. Grinch for pointing that out to me.

 

I'll be careful to not respond to any more of these type of posts from you.

 

Glory! 'Bout fucking time!

 

As to your point about logic, reason, intelligent discourse I don't think anything that I would bring to the debate would satisfy you. I'll stick to discussions about prayer and the love of Chrsit.

 

And the REASON anything you would "bring to the table" won't satisfy me, is because you only bring your feelings, art work and poetry. You NEVER utilize "logic, reason and intelligent discourse". Which brings us back to the entire POINT of this particular thread. Talking to people like YOU is like and that drives people like ME insane with rage. And I think that you know this, and you do it on purpose.

 

And BTW, any discussions about prayer and the love of Christ, will lead to the same on these forums. And you fucking know it will. Why can't you just leave these people in peace to enjoy their life without Christ? You don't see me coming into YOUR church and creating dischord, do you?

[Astreja]

Talking to people like YOU is like and that drives people like ME insane with rage. And I think that you know this, and you do it on purpose.

Mr. G, excellent point. It does make sense, now that I think about it, that these apologists want to enrage us. Like emotional parasites, they feed on our anger.

 

But I also think that a belief system that leads its adherents to want to cause discord is quietly doing the very same thing within the minds of the believers themselves. Their are, appropriately, tainted by their own wrong action.

 

So, sooner or later, these troublemakers' lives all come crashing down in failure and madness. Their only hope for escape is the route we all took, away from superstition into reason and responsibility.

 

Why can't you just leave these people in peace to enjoy their life without Christ? You don't see me coming into YOUR church and creating dischord, do you?

Yes, why not? Inquiring minds want to know.