"Why Christians Just Don't Get It"

[roman]

I'm not sure when I said I am a new convert, but I am fairly new, although I have studied the Bible for a good bit. I know I'm no authority.

Well, aren't you special. Most of us here at EX-CHRISTIAN.net have studied the bible for a good bit, also, my brother. We find it lacking. We know that you are no authority and have known so from the beginning.

 

By the way, you avoided my question about your problems with masturbation. And I'm wondering...how did you get your name to appear in that pretty purple color, and what is the purpose of having your name be purple? Is it a tribute to Donny Osmond or Barney, or something else?

[Ryan]

Allah is a false god and we were not talking about how we know the Christian God is God. We were talking about how Jesus did want to be worshipped; and rightfully so.

 

Question. Since Allah is the same entity as the Hebrew god with an extra book attached, what does that make the Christian God? Both revise an existing deity, and yet only Allah is a false god? How does that make any sense?

[roman]

Allah is a false god and we were not talking about how we know the Christian God is God. We were talking about how Jesus did want to be worshipped; and rightfully so.

There you go again, Scott, speaking with authority after just admitting that you are not an authority.

 

I'm wondering...in addition to your sexual problems, are you also bi-polar? I recommend Lithium.

[KT45]

Allah is a false god

YHWH is a false god. See I'm using the same tactic as you. It doesn't prove anything and leads to no conclusions. Stop saying that no one else can do something but my god when other religious books say that they can do the very same thing. If you want to say all gods are false besides yours then you have to use logic and reason to explain yourself. Simply dismissing it is childish and leads to no conclusions

 

we were not talking about how we know the Christian God is God. We were talking about how Jesus did want to be worshipped; and rightfully so.

The title of this thread is "Why christians don't get it". You fit the description perfectly. The thing you don't understand is that the same logic you use for believing your god is real and dismissing other gods is that other religions use the exact same tactics. Your god is not special. But you will never realize that because you can't ever picture your god as a sinful, hateful , bloodthirsty unworthy evil even when we show it to you USING YOUR OWN BIBLE! Grinch is right, christians can't ever learn. It doesn't matter if they are reading their bibles and see god sinning they just view it with rose colored glasses to aviod the truth and pain of being wrong.

[dr_funkenstein]

There's a very good reason people like Scott and Amy-Marie cling onto their faith in the face of a fury of reasons not to.

 

It has to do with a feeling of security. A feeling of safety they get, similar to the one small children have when they're with their parents.

 

With god on your side, there are so many things you don't have to worry about. He will smooth out life before you as long as your faith is strong. He'll comfort you when your sad, and to top it off he'll give you a mansion in heaven when you die!

 

Those fantasies are so comforting that it's very hard to admit that that's all they are - fantasies.

[KT45]

I think christians cling to this religion is because it is a paradigm taught to them when they are young or merely a paradigm that most of the world accepts. Just like any paradigm shift the change can be hard especially with chrisitanity. If you even consider the possiblity of it being an evil religion or a wrong religion the fear of hell will kick you back in followed by a feeling of fear that the entire way you see the world is crumbling. It's very scary so you can't afford taking a jump. You also feel like you shouldn't leave because you feel like you are leaving love itself. You forget all the evil stuff in the bible and just remember the sunday school crap. Jesus loves you, why leave him. If they feel they run away from love they then feel like a monster. All these feelings along with the "what if I'm wrong feeling" halt the process of even considering there isn't a god. It makes you think you love to stay and fear thinking about leaving. The ultimate trap that very few will ever escape.

[Scott]

Roman, what "pretty purple color"? I didn't do anything with my name.

When I said I had no authority, I meant spiritual authority like a Pastor. Christ has given all who believe in Him authority.

Why are you so interested in my sexuality?

 

dr_funkenstein, you're right to a point. God is our Parent. He is our Father. We have security in Him. However, Christians still have hard lives. Many have been killed for the cause of Christ. Christians are persecuted for the Faith, and not to mention the temptation we have to resist.

[dr_funkenstein]

dr_funkenstein, you're right to a point. God is our Parent. He is our Father. We have security in Him. However, Christians still have hard lives. Many have been killed for the cause of Christ. Christians are persecuted for the Faith, and not to mention the temptation we have to resist.

 

Well it's my experience that xians have done much more of the killing and the persecuting than the other way round.

 

But thanks for proving my point!

 

And why is it that only xians have to resist temptation? Sometimes I'm tempted to do bad things but I resist too. Why? Not because of any religion, but simply because it makes sense. If somebody wrongs me and I'm tempted to hit them, all I'm going to do is escalate the problem. I don't need god to tell me that - I figured it out on my own.

 

So let me ask you to consider something. Consider for a moment that the god you believe exists, the god that you pray to - doesn't really exist. For argument's sake just humour me. What would be the consequence of continuing to believe that he does exist when he doesn't?

[roman]

Why are you so interested in my sexuality?

 

However, Christians still have hard lives. Many have been killed for the cause of Christ. Christians are persecuted for the Faith, and not to mention the temptation we have to resist.

I am not interested in your sexuality, scottie. I am trying to get you off your high horse.

 

Xians most certainly do not have hard lives on account of being Xians. This is absurd fiction that we hear from Xians daily. You are repeating a fiction. Name for us even one Xian that you know who has been killed for the cause of X. Name for us even one Xian in Alabama who is persecuted for the faith.

 

You should take the advice of Mae West, who said "I generally avoid temptation, unless I can't resist it."

[Scott]

dr_funkenstein - I haven't thought about this. If we honestly believed He exists when He doesn't, I don't think this would cause anything bad. If we believe in Him, then we die and there's nothing, we would be dead...So we wouldn't know it.

 

Roman, that was a little out of the blue, though "So tell me Scott, do you masturbate?".

I don't know of any one person who has been persecuted for their faith in this country. That's because this is a free country. Try checking out the other countries in the world.

[roman]

I don't know of any one person who has been persecuted for their faith in this country. That's because this is a free country. Try checking out the other countries in the world.

 

What other countries have you been to, Scott? What persecutions of Xians are you personally familiar with?

[dr_funkenstein]

dr_funkenstein - I haven't thought about this. If we honestly believed He exists when He doesn't, I don't think this would cause anything bad. If we believe in Him, then we die and there's nothing, we would be dead...So we wouldn't know it.

 

Wouldn't cause anything bad? How about having devoted your life to a lie? How about having denied yourself so much? What a waste of a life that would have been!

 

So you see, quite a lot hinges on the question of whether or not your faith is reasonable. And if you're shown evidence that runs counter to what you believe - you better pay attention because otherwise you could be frittering your life away on a lie. And I know you don't want to do that.

 

But I must go now so all the best!

[Scott]

Roman, have you read anything about the persecution of Christians?

[Kuroikaze]

Roman, have you read anything about the persecution of Christians?

 

Lots of non-christians have been persicuted for their beliefs as well...persecution proves nothing except that the follower is devoted.

[Checkmate]

For those who (obviously) missed THESE links, I present them again for your reading pleasure.

 

Under Delusion and Compartmentalization.

 

I must say that this has been the Most Illuminating Thread Ever! The OP states emphatically the troubles we have trying to debate and argue with Christians, and then here come the Christians to prove and validate ever word I said! Classic! I surely hope that Amy Marie and Scott aren't spoofers, because they are perfect examples of the Christians whom I speak.

 

Keep up the good work, guys and gals!

 

Oh and Amy Marie? I did catch your ridiculous reply to my post to you explaining the nature of these forums. I'm choosing NOT to further engage you, since you obviously lack the intellect to comprehend what I say without taking it as a personal attack.

 

For example, when I explained how "CHRISTIANS" were going into other areas of the forum unwanted, I did NOT mean YOU! I was explaining to you WHAT HAD GONE ON BEFORE AND WHAT STEPS WERE TAKEN TO RESOLVE IT, THUS DETAILING THE GENESIS OF THIS SITE. But, as usual, you didn't understand this and chose instead to believe I was accusing YOU of some bad behavior. I'm tired of talking to you, Amy, because you just don't get ANYTHING. Every explanation to you is taken as a personal attack no matter how it's worded or gift wrapped. So fuck it. I'm done trying to explain anything to you. I'll just keep attacking without apology since THAT seems to be what you want most.

 

Now, let us continue wasting words on deluded religious nitwits who refuse to understand even the simplest of logical arguments.

 

"Allah is a FALSE god, but Jesus/Jehovah is the True god!"

[Checkmate]

Roman, have you read anything about the persecution of Christians?

I have. And every bit of so-called persecution was performed by CHRISTIANS against other CHRISTIANS! Do your homework child. Go all the way back to the days of the early church and you'll see it. Christians killing other Christians over the formation of the canon of scripture and for control of the government run church. Read Foxes Book of Martyrs. Look at what Catholics and Protestants did to one another and to the poor Anabaptists.

 

Don't waste my time trying to whine about Christian "persecution" as if it was atheists and pagans doing the dirty deed. EVERY instance of a Christian dying violently was a clear case of RELIGIOUS differences, either amongst themselves or against Muslims.

 

And the idea of modern day Christian "persecution" is an urban myth/fairy tale/wishful thinking, so you may as well drop this bogus line of argumentation. It means nothing and proves even less.

[Antlerman]

See, you are using human logic in regards to something that is far beyond us. Sin is horrible in the sight of God.

Whoa! Stop the presses! We cannot any longer use human logic in regards to something like God!!! That does it then. Next time you try to explain God’s love using human logic I’ll stop you. Next time you try to explain God’s will using human logic I’ll stop you. Next time you try to explain God’s existence using human logic I’ll stop you. Next time you try to explain God’s sense of justice and fairness using anything that even remotely sounds like human logic, I’m going to call you on it and refer you back to your own words here: “See, you are using human logic in regards to something that is far beyond us.”

 

Hell is a just punishment. Now, before we continue to discuss whether hell is a just punishment or not, what do you believe about hell? What do you picture when you think of hell?[/b]

You can't say Hell is a just punishment. You just said, "See, you are using human logic in regards to something that is far beyond us." Hell is not just whatsoever according to human logic, but human logic doesn't apply to God according to your own words. So put simply for you: "Hell is unjust in human logic, but Hell is fair in God's logic." So you stop trying to justify something that we can never accept as a human being. Face it, God is a violent tyrant according to human logic. Therefore why should anyone with a brain accept him?

 

We should accept that even though human logic and reason tells us genocide is wrong, according to God's ways it's OK for us to accept it as truth. Even though exacting out punishment that goes way beyond the crime is unfair and unjust in human terms, we should aspire to be more like God and behead an 8 year old who shoplifts a candybar from the drug store. Even though love in human terms mean we accept our own children no matter if they're perfect or imperfect, we should say goodbye to our humanity based in our human logic and emotions and exact God's sense of justice instead upon them by binding them to a post, pouring gasoline on them and lighting them on fire in the name of "The Father, the Son, and the Holly Ghost".

 

You can't have it both ways Scott. Either we can evalute and accept or reject God using the brains we have, or we must deny ourselves of any connection to our humanity and supplant it with the "Justice" of God in our morality and behave as I stated above. What is it to be then? Use our brains, or not use our brains?

[Ouroboros]

True. I just don't like it when people talk like christians don't experience difficulties and we are walking around in a dream world or in a fantasy where we never get hit by the hard things in life.

Of course you don't. But some Christians do evade looking straight at reality by simply dwelling in the comfort of their fantasies, just like people of many other religions. It's not just Christianity, it's the disease of religion, or if I may say the delusional effects of the poison.

 

Your opinion is more realistic and balanced. Thanks!

Hehe, you don't always think that about my posts.

 

True, and religion is also a lolli-pop. It's just like how the baby suck their thumb to feel safe, and when they get older they stop, but a few kids don't. Religion is a pacifier for the mind. It's the brain still clinging to a need of feeling safe, because not-knowing is more scary than to make up an answer. Since we don't know what's out there, and how things work, our mind is scared and need something to calm it. An answer, any answer, feels better than no answer. And the comparison goes even further. Religion is like alcohol, it numbs your mind and it feels kind of good for a while, but it really is toxic and doesn't solve any problems, only covers the feelings about the problems, and over time it becomes the problem itself. Religion is the same way, numbing the senses of fear, but at the same time is a poison to society.

[Alice]

:wink: Hi Scott,

 

I thought I would join the queue of people who want to point out to you that you have unanswered responses on several other threads ... mine is in the 'word for God' thread. I'd really appreciate a reply ... I tried to pm you but it seems that your inbox is filled to the brim ...

 

I just wanted to ask you to think about the titles 'God the Father' and the 'son of God'.

 

I what way do you think God is Jesus' Father? and in the same way, how is Jesus his son?

 

As God is a non material spirit, without body, without genes, without form, without a brain, without hormonal responses - how can this function of 'father' manifest itself?

 

Can you not see that these phrases are metaphors that would have their authors cringing in agony if they had the slightest notion that generations later people would start to think these literal terms?

 

Do you believe that God has a right hand?

 

I'm hoping that you will recognise this one as metaphor ... but I won't hold my breath because I have met christians who insist he has ... for example - I once had this conversation with a warm hearted christian friend in a cozy little bistro (although not that warm hearted it turned out as she cut off our friendship when I finally fully deconverted)

 

Me: but surely you can see that when the bible speaks of 'the right hand of god' this is a metaphor

Old Friend: If the Bible says God has a right hand then I believe it.

Me: but the Bible is clear that God is a spirit, so what would this hand be made of?

Old Friend: God can do anything. He is all powerful.

Me: so (I place my hand on the table between us) imagine my hand is God's hand ... (I point to one finger) so in order for God to have a hand - this would be God ... (then I point to the space bwteen my fingers) and this not God. (I point to each finger in turn and to the spaces in between) God .... not God .... God ..... not God .... Right?

Old friend: yes.

Me: but God is omnipresent - where do the gaps between his fingers come from?

Old Friend: ummm. It says it in the bible, so I believe it.

Me: I think a second bottle is called for.

 

Dear Scott,

 

please do not drive me to drink ... think about the terms you use and the ones that cannot possibly be taken in a literal sense when talking about the God concept.

 

Thank you :wink:

[Thackerie]

... I don't know of any one person who has been persecuted for their faith in this country. That's because this is a free country. ...[/b]

 

Try telling that to the Moslems in the U.S. who have been persecuted by god-fearing christian yahoos who think they are somehow avenging 9-11 by harassing innocent women who wear veils. Better yet, tell that to the Sikh garage-owner who was murdered by a couple of fundies who assumed that anyone wearing a turban must be an Islamic terrorist. Not to mention all the Jewish synagogues and temples that are repeatedly vandalized by swastika-painting thugs.

[Checkmate]

...............

An answer, any answer, feels better than no answer. And the comparison goes even further. Religion is like alcohol, it numbs your mind and it feels kind of good for a while, but it really is toxic and doesn't solve any problems, only covers the feelings about the problems, and over time it becomes the problem itself. Religion is the same way, numbing the senses of fear, but at the same time is a poison to society.

EXACTLY!!! Which is why I keep using the Aloholics Anonymous analogy here. We were ALL once hooked on this drug of choice called religion/Christianity. Now we're recovering addicts. And just like in AA, we don't like it when some asshole intrudes with a bottle of whiskey telling us that THIS is what we REALLY need! We're free now! Go away with that shit! Stop trying to get me "hooked" again!

 

We non-believers do not want to have our senses numbed to reality. I, for one, prefer to face life head on, like a rational adult, and not like some frightened primitive who still believes that the gods are angry at him (or his neighbors) and that is why the crops failed.

 

I fucking HATE purveyors of religion! Religion is a drug no different than crack or meth. It's a cancer and a crippling, addictive drug that rots and destroys the spirit of mankind. And ANYONE who PUSHES this drug will feel my wrath. If YOU want to suck on your Christ crack pipe, then that's YOUR problem. Don't offer that shit to me!

[Ouroboros]

Maybe we should have that as a slogan to the forum? "The place to detox from the poisonous Christian drug..."

[roman]

Roman, have you read anything about the persecution of Christians?

 

Stop tap dancing, Scott.

 

Repeat:

 

What other countries have you been to, Scott? What persecutions of Xians are you personally familiar with?

[white_raven23]

And I hate that I can't edit my posts. There are so many mistakes in this one. Maybe it's cause I'm blind in one eye. Ya think?

 

No.

 

What does having your field of vision halved have to do with grammatical and spelling mistakes? Not a damn thing. It's a piss poor excuse for not caring enough to compose a decent readable post. Blaming the eye for the apathy within the head is a lot like blaming the car for getting into an accident, instead of blaming the drunk ass behind the wheel.

 

There are plenty of people here dealing with one disability or another. Most of them don't try to blame sounding like a moron in the threads on their disabilities.

 

There is such a thing as self-editing before you hit that 'post' button. You just don't give a shit enough to take that much responsibility for your words. If you cannot respect your own words enough to make then represent you to the best of their ability.....why should we have any respect for them, or by extension YOU either?

[white_raven23]

White_raven.

 

Surely there must be an ounce of compassion in your heart. Why do you insist on being so nasty to me?

 

Perhaps you have never heard of "tough love"? It is compassion for you that inspires me to be rough with you. You are comfortable using disability as an excuse. Do you really think there is nothing wrong with doing that? I do.

 

If I really disliked you, I would let you have your self-destructive fantasy and your perceived helplessness. I would see you as pathetic, but I wouldn't bother to attempt to show you the flaw in that thinking if I really didn't give a shit.

I bet you're much nicer off these boards but gosh, if I ever met you in person would you knock me out with a one two punch?

 

Unlikely. You can get arrested for that. It's not worth going to jail. Don't use juvenile nonsense to demonize me.

Everyone just can't be as intelligent, whitty and as beautiful as you are. I know I'm not.

 

Is this sarcasm? Or just passive-aggressive self-depreciation? Either way it really has little to do with trying to use a physical disability to garner emotional and intellectual understanding.

 

I have never said to anyone: "Oh look.....I'm so pretty....you just can't expect me to understand college algebra!" *giggle* (gag me) And there are people who do that....maybe not in those exact words....but you get my drift.

 

If I ever said or implied in any way in my life than anything about my physical appearance is is any way to blame for a fault in my mental make-up......then I would be a hypocrite about your disability. But I can assure you (and my parents can assure you as well....they were good), that such thought patterns were not encouraged one bit in my developmental period.