First Question

[mymistake]

 

"All scripture is God breathed.." 2 Timothy 3:16

To understand one must take into account the context, the time, the speaker, the purpose and the

individual writing styles of the authors.

 

The context was somebody wrote it long after Paul was dead but they claimed they were Paul anyway even though they knew doing so was bearing false witness.  The purpose included deception.

[TheRedneckProfessor]

"All scripture is God breathed.." 2 Timothy 3:16

To understand one must take into account the context, the time, the speaker, the purpose and the

individual writing styles of the authors.

This is simply not true.  If god is eternal and his message is everlasting then we need understand nothing of the context, time, speaker, purpose, or individual writing styles.  We don't even have to understand anything about the culture, social or political agenda, or personal gains the writers expected.

 

We need understand nothing more than that god is the same today, yesterday, and forevermore.  A message from such a god would mean the same to us today as it meant whenever it was first given to us.

 

Stop eating shrimp and wearing cotton/polyester blends, you brood of vipers!

[Ravenstar]

I was under the impression that once saved you received the holy spirit and then all would be understood, and that you would have the power to not sin.

 

It didn't seem to leave the impression that it was something that had to be repeated incessantly.

 

The example of christianity throughout history until this very day is sorely lacking with the promises in the Bible. Fail.

[midniterider]

"All scripture is God breathed.." 2 Timothy 3:16

To understand one must take into account the context, the time, the speaker, the purpose and the

individual writing styles of the authors.

 

This is how cults start. ~Fernweh

 

I think that God allowing humans to write the story of his message over centuries of time is a lot

cooler than God dropping golden tablets from the sky all at once.

 

Both are equally ridiculous. ~Fernweh

 

To study the scriptures correctly is how a cult starts? Can you explain?

 

Both are ridiculous? How would you like God to send his message to us?

 

He's all powerful, right? He could stop by every household for coffee and do every one of them at the same time.

 

Or he could do some 30 second spots on NBC, ABC, or CBS.

 

The thing about Christians is they don't believe their god is powerful enough to do anything like this. They believe their god is an awesome god but doesnt really do anything a real person could do. And they don't see the contradiction .... or they suppress it.

[midniterider]

OK...

 

My question:

 

How do yo study scripture correctly? What edition do you need to do so? The ancient greek one? Or hebrew? What background knowledge would you suggest? What parts of the bible are to take literally and what parts are symbolic and why?

 

I have seen cults explaining their wicked theories all backed up with scriptures and you could not even say they had interpreted it the wrong way...

 

So what tells you, you are studying scriptures right and everyone else isn't?

 

To study scripture correctly, you first read it, then go ask your master pastor what it means.

[Ravenstar]

What would have been cool was a book written 2500 years ago in binary code. Just one. So that it was OBVIOUS that it was inspired by something other than human imagination

[Bhim]

Question: if the most obvious meaning of the Biblical text must be twisted in order to harmonize gospel accounts, then why should I take John 3:36, or any other passages pertaining to the doctrine of hell, to mean that I'll suffer eternal conscious torment for not believing in Jesus?

 

Given the tenuous nature of the hermeneutic necessary to maintain Biblical inerrancy, I'll take my chances and stick with the religion I was born with.

 

Ironhorse, I would appreciate if you could make substantive comments on this post.

[mydisplayname]

 

I think that God allowing humans to write the story of his message over centuries of time is a lot

cooler than God dropping golden tablets from the sky all at once.

 

 

I've never been cool so I can't really comment on which option would have been cooler. I can think of a few options that might have worked better, but sadly they're all uncool ideas. I like Ravenstars binary idea. I bet she was never one of the cool kids.

 

I don't think it's a good idea to drop golden tablets from the sky. It could seriously hurt someone. What if it landed on my car? Is god going to take care of the damage because I'm pretty sure my insurance doesn't cover acts of god. 

 

If a golden tablet falls in my back yard I will melt it down and have it shaped into a miniature version of myself and call it James. James and I will then go out cruising for chicks. They'll all think I'm cool because James will be my wingman and show me how to speak to women. I won't allow James to drive though because I think he might have a problem and he shouldn't get another DUI.

[falemon]

Funny how God was able to come down in person in Exodus.

 

To me he sounded more like an alien with a big ass spacecraft parked up on the mountain.

[ironhorse]

OK...

 

My question:

 

How do yo study scripture correctly? What edition do you need to do so? The ancient greek one? Or hebrew? What background knowledge would you suggest? What parts of the bible are to take literally and what parts are symbolic and why?

 

I have seen cults explaining their wicked theories all backed up with scriptures and you could not even say they had interpreted it the wrong way...

 

So what tells you, you are studying scriptures right and everyone else isn't?

 

-To study scriptures I view in interpret other scriptures using the four Gospel accounts.

-There are several good English translations. I use the NIV Study Bible. 

-I can't read Greek or Hebrew,

-A background knowledge of other religions would help in understanding the

uniqueness of the Christian faith. Also history books on ancient people and

civilizations.

-You have to consider the context in order to determine literal or symbolic. 

Why? If a text read, "He had so many bees in his head he couldn't think."

Would the bees be literal or symbolic?

 

Name a cult and let's see where they have twisted scripture. It's easy.

 

I did not say everyone else is wrong. I don't claim to be correct in

everything...there are parts of scripture that remain a mystery, but

I try to read and understand them.

 

I will say that the major theme and

message of the Bible I do undersatand.

[moanareina]

 

OK...

 

My question:

 

How do yo study scripture correctly? What edition do you need to do so? The ancient greek one? Or hebrew? What background knowledge would you suggest? What parts of the bible are to take literally and what parts are symbolic and why?

 

I have seen cults explaining their wicked theories all backed up with scriptures and you could not even say they had interpreted it the wrong way...

 

So what tells you, you are studying scriptures right and everyone else isn't?

 

-To study scriptures I view in interpret other scriptures using the four Gospel accounts.

-There are several good English translations. I use the NIV Study Bible. 

-I can't read Greek or Hebrew,

-A background knowledge of other religions would help in understanding the

uniqueness of the Christian faith. Also history books on ancient people and

civilizations.

-You have to consider the context in order to determine literal or symbolic. 

Why? If a text read, "He had so many bees in his head he couldn't think."

Would the bees be literal or symbolic?

 

Name a cult and let's see where they have twisted scripture. It's easy.

 

I did not say everyone else is wrong. I don't claim to be correct in

everything...there are parts of scripture that remain a mystery, but

I try to read and understand them.

 

I will say that the major theme and

message of the Bible I do undersatand.

 

 

To say one has to study scripture correctly is implying that there is a way of right and wrong. Thats why I asked how you read scripture correctly.

 

Now if you can't read ancient hebrew or ancient greek, how do you know the translation you are reading is good? I mean a translation always falls short because there is much lost in the context of language alone. It is why you can choose to see a movie in its original language with subtitles or dubbed when going to the cinema in switzerland.

Now even if you are fluent in english and watching an american movie here, you don't get all it's jokes and clues if you have not experienced it's culture first hand by living there for a while and have gotten to know the american lifestyle. Even though I come from a western culture there are still so many differences that something can be totally normal in one while in the other it just makes no sense.

 

I can tell you some typical misunderstandings that happen to swiss people in the US. If someone tells you; Why don't you wash the dishes? The person means: Would you please wash the dishes. What someone like me understands though is: You should be washing the dishes by now! A polite question understood as a very rude command (and yes that happened to me while I spent a semester in the US...got irritated every time until I was back home and finally got the meaning of that phrase and then I felt pretty sorry). Or the expression: Hit the road! Makes you think: WTF? Why should anyone hit the road? I mean is there a magic fountain going off like when Moses hit the rock? So language is crucial I think if you propose a correct way of reading scriptures and not only language but actually having experienced a culture. So this leads to my next question:

 

How deep do you go into background knowledge? How much history have you studied to really understand its context?

In my opinion you would have to actually spend time in ancient palestine territory...because otherwise you can only assume and guess and you need to study amounts of history...compare different accounts of history on it's accuracy etc.

 

I am sorry but I don't remember the cult I have watched the video of and was so amazed about it's scriptural backing. It was a guy who had claimed to be the incarnation of Jesus and had several women living with him at a piece of land God had promised them etc. He was caught for having sexual relations with minor's...and while the investigation was in progress and he was in prison the cult members saw this as persecution and an affirmation of them having found the real deal. This is about six years ago now. So maybe you know what I am talking about.

When you listened to the testimonies of those girls being members of that cult, it was not much different then listening to a christian giving his testimony. Only that this girls talked about a guy they actually have a personal relationship with (even though a pretty unhealthy one) instead of an imaginary friend...

I am sure you can point out where this guy has twisted scripture...as much as I probably could point out where you might have twisted scriptures...because thats the problem with scriptures...since no one has actually lived at the time it has been written and the events portrayed in it have or have not happened...it is hard to tell who is studying scripture right. And when you look at all the different denominations and cults and all the different interpretation of certain passages I think the conclusion is, there is hardly a correct way to study scriptures. Or how do you explain all that? Why do you think your way of studying scripture is more correct then someone else's who might come to other conclusions about it then you do?

[xtify]

"All scripture is God breathed.."

 

[xtify]

Ironhorse,

 

Another question, if I may:

 

Why would a God of justice base everything on belief?  

 

Hint: because LIES require belief.

 

I'll give you a real world example:

The 'official' story of Kim Jong il's birth in Baekdu Mountain was prophesied by a swallow and heralded with a double rainbow and a new star in the heavens.  If you live in North Korea and you don't believe this, you will likely be executed.  

 

On the other hand, things that are actually true don't require threats of death for disbelief.

 

If you've ever told a big lie, you'd know that keeping the lie from being exposed becomes the most important thing.  You might even have to threaten a few witnesses to keep them quiet.  With that in mind, why, in your opinion, does Jesus say believing that he's God is the most important thing?  

[sdelsolray]

 

 

-To study scriptures I view in interpret other scriptures using the four Gospel accounts.

-There are several good English translations. I use the NIV Study Bible. 

-I can't read Greek or Hebrew,

-A background knowledge of other religions would help in understanding the

uniqueness of the Christian faith. Also history books on ancient people and

civilizations.

-You have to consider the context in order to determine literal or symbolic. 

Why? If a text read, "He had so many bees in his head he couldn't think."

Would the bees be literal or symbolic?

 

Name a cult and let's see where they have twisted scripture. It's easy.

 

I did not say everyone else is wrong. I don't claim to be correct in

everything...there are parts of scripture that remain a mystery, but

I try to read and understand them.

 

I will say that the major theme and

message of the Bible I do undersatand.

 

Ok.

 

Let's take the Christian cult that you belong to.

 

Please identify where you have "twisted scripture" (your words).

 

After all, "it's easy" (again, your words).

[ironhorse]

 

 

OK...

 

My question:

 

How do yo study scripture correctly? What edition do you need to do so? The ancient greek one? Or hebrew? What background knowledge would you suggest? What parts of the bible are to take literally and what parts are symbolic and why?

 

I have seen cults explaining their wicked theories all backed up with scriptures and you could not even say they had interpreted it the wrong way...

 

So what tells you, you are studying scriptures right and everyone else isn't?

 

-To study scriptures I view in interpret other scriptures using the four Gospel accounts.

-There are several good English translations. I use the NIV Study Bible. 

-I can't read Greek or Hebrew,

-A background knowledge of other religions would help in understanding the

uniqueness of the Christian faith. Also history books on ancient people and

civilizations.

-You have to consider the context in order to determine literal or symbolic. 

Why? If a text read, "He had so many bees in his head he couldn't think."

Would the bees be literal or symbolic?

 

Name a cult and let's see where they have twisted scripture. It's easy.

 

I did not say everyone else is wrong. I don't claim to be correct in

everything...there are parts of scripture that remain a mystery, but

I try to read and understand them.

 

I will say that the major theme and

message of the Bible I do undersatand.

 

 

To say one has to study scripture correctly is implying that there is a way of right and wrong. Thats why I asked how you read scripture correctly.

 

Now if you can't read ancient hebrew or ancient greek, how do you know the translation you are reading is good? I mean a translation always falls short because there is much lost in the context of language alone. It is why you can choose to see a movie in its original language with subtitles or dubbed when going to the cinema in switzerland.

Now even if you are fluent in english and watching an american movie here, you don't get all it's jokes and clues if you have not experienced it's culture first hand by living there for a while and have gotten to know the american lifestyle. Even though I come from a western culture there are still so many differences that something can be totally normal in one while in the other it just makes no sense.

 

I can tell you some typical misunderstandings that happen to swiss people in the US. If someone tells you; Why don't you wash the dishes? The person means: Would you please wash the dishes. What someone like me understands though is: You should be washing the dishes by now! A polite question understood as a very rude command (and yes that happened to me while I spent a semester in the US...got irritated every time until I was back home and finally got the meaning of that phrase and then I felt pretty sorry). Or the expression: Hit the road! Makes you think: WTF? Why should anyone hit the road? I mean is there a magic fountain going off like when Moses hit the rock? So language is crucial I think if you propose a correct way of reading scriptures and not only language but actually having experienced a culture. So this leads to my next question:

 

How deep do you go into background knowledge? How much history have you studied to really understand its context?

In my opinion you would have to actually spend time in ancient palestine territory...because otherwise you can only assume and guess and you need to study amounts of history...compare different accounts of history on it's accuracy etc.

 

I am sorry but I don't remember the cult I have watched the video of and was so amazed about it's scriptural backing. It was a guy who had claimed to be the incarnation of Jesus and had several women living with him at a piece of land God had promised them etc. He was caught for having sexual relations with minor's...and while the investigation was in progress and he was in prison the cult members saw this as persecution and an affirmation of them having found the real deal. This is about six years ago now. So maybe you know what I am talking about.

When you listened to the testimonies of those girls being members of that cult, it was not much different then listening to a christian giving his testimony. Only that this girls talked about a guy they actually have a personal relationship with (even though a pretty unhealthy one) instead of an imaginary friend...

I am sure you can point out where this guy has twisted scripture...as much as I probably could point out where you might have twisted scriptures...because thats the problem with scriptures...since no one has actually lived at the time it has been written and the events portrayed in it have or have not happened...it is hard to tell who is studying scripture right. And when you look at all the different denominations and cults and all the different interpretation of certain passages I think the conclusion is, there is hardly a correct way to study scriptures. Or how do you explain all that? Why do you think your way of studying scripture is more correct then someone else's who might come to other conclusions about it then you do?

 

 

 

There is more evidence for the Bible’s authenticity than for any literature of antiquity. 

 

One example:

The Dead Sea Scrolls found in several caves between 1947-1956. The manuscripts

are dated between 480 B.C. and 318. A.D. Many of them contained entire books

of the Bible. The text matches our modern translations.

[Aggie]

Ironhorse,

I'm not sure that's a fair statement about the Bible's "authenticity."  Even if you could prove that a particular manuscript was a 100% "pure" copy from a particular author, you'd have to answer the question "100% pure what?"

I think your Dead Sea Scroll comment may be overstated too.  I understand that the Book of Jeremiah particularly has a lot of differences.  (As memory serves, it's maybe 15% shorter?)

Of course, you'd also have to answer how you can be sure of which books should be in the Bible and what textual version you prefer.  Which ending of Mark is correct?  Is the story of the woman caught in adultery in John accurate?  Did Jesus say "Forgive them, Father, for they know not what they do?"  Did Jesus have sweat like drops of blood?  Is the Septuagint the truest form of the Old Testament (since the NT authors quoted it and the Eastern Orthodox hold it is the correct version) or should the Masoretic text be used?  Are all four gospels true?  Should there be more or less like some have believed?  Should you go with the Roman Catholic, Eastern Orthodox, Ethiopian Orthodox or Protestant canon?  Should you delve into arguments about canonicity in Jewish communities of the past?  Should you go with a canonical list like the Muratorian canon instead?  Should you consider the counsel of particular church fathers who reject or accept books that you may feel differently about?  Was Luther's comment about James being an "epistle of straw" correct?  Should you go with more moderate Christian scholars that question books like 2nd Peter?  Should you go with Muslims who think the Koran has the more accurate/inspired words about Jesus?

 

The "Bible" means different things to different people.  The conclusion that I have come to is that traditional ideas of canon appear pretty dubious...

[TheRedneckProfessor]

 

 

 

OK...

 

My question:

 

How do yo study scripture correctly? What edition do you need to do so? The ancient greek one? Or hebrew? What background knowledge would you suggest? What parts of the bible are to take literally and what parts are symbolic and why?

 

I have seen cults explaining their wicked theories all backed up with scriptures and you could not even say they had interpreted it the wrong way...

 

So what tells you, you are studying scriptures right and everyone else isn't?

 

-To study scriptures I view in interpret other scriptures using the four Gospel accounts.

-There are several good English translations. I use the NIV Study Bible. 

-I can't read Greek or Hebrew,

-A background knowledge of other religions would help in understanding the

uniqueness of the Christian faith. Also history books on ancient people and

civilizations.

-You have to consider the context in order to determine literal or symbolic. 

Why? If a text read, "He had so many bees in his head he couldn't think."

Would the bees be literal or symbolic?

 

Name a cult and let's see where they have twisted scripture. It's easy.

 

I did not say everyone else is wrong. I don't claim to be correct in

everything...there are parts of scripture that remain a mystery, but

I try to read and understand them.

 

I will say that the major theme and

message of the Bible I do undersatand.

 

 

To say one has to study scripture correctly is implying that there is a way of right and wrong. Thats why I asked how you read scripture correctly.

 

Now if you can't read ancient hebrew or ancient greek, how do you know the translation you are reading is good? I mean a translation always falls short because there is much lost in the context of language alone. It is why you can choose to see a movie in its original language with subtitles or dubbed when going to the cinema in switzerland.

Now even if you are fluent in english and watching an american movie here, you don't get all it's jokes and clues if you have not experienced it's culture first hand by living there for a while and have gotten to know the american lifestyle. Even though I come from a western culture there are still so many differences that something can be totally normal in one while in the other it just makes no sense.

 

I can tell you some typical misunderstandings that happen to swiss people in the US. If someone tells you; Why don't you wash the dishes? The person means: Would you please wash the dishes. What someone like me understands though is: You should be washing the dishes by now! A polite question understood as a very rude command (and yes that happened to me while I spent a semester in the US...got irritated every time until I was back home and finally got the meaning of that phrase and then I felt pretty sorry). Or the expression: Hit the road! Makes you think: WTF? Why should anyone hit the road? I mean is there a magic fountain going off like when Moses hit the rock? So language is crucial I think if you propose a correct way of reading scriptures and not only language but actually having experienced a culture. So this leads to my next question:

 

How deep do you go into background knowledge? How much history have you studied to really understand its context?

In my opinion you would have to actually spend time in ancient palestine territory...because otherwise you can only assume and guess and you need to study amounts of history...compare different accounts of history on it's accuracy etc.

 

I am sorry but I don't remember the cult I have watched the video of and was so amazed about it's scriptural backing. It was a guy who had claimed to be the incarnation of Jesus and had several women living with him at a piece of land God had promised them etc. He was caught for having sexual relations with minor's...and while the investigation was in progress and he was in prison the cult members saw this as persecution and an affirmation of them having found the real deal. This is about six years ago now. So maybe you know what I am talking about.

When you listened to the testimonies of those girls being members of that cult, it was not much different then listening to a christian giving his testimony. Only that this girls talked about a guy they actually have a personal relationship with (even though a pretty unhealthy one) instead of an imaginary friend...

I am sure you can point out where this guy has twisted scripture...as much as I probably could point out where you might have twisted scriptures...because thats the problem with scriptures...since no one has actually lived at the time it has been written and the events portrayed in it have or have not happened...it is hard to tell who is studying scripture right. And when you look at all the different denominations and cults and all the different interpretation of certain passages I think the conclusion is, there is hardly a correct way to study scriptures. Or how do you explain all that? Why do you think your way of studying scripture is more correct then someone else's who might come to other conclusions about it then you do?

 

 

 

There is more evidence for the Bible’s authenticity than for any literature of antiquity. 

 

One example:

The Dead Sea Scrolls found in several caves between 1947-1956. The manuscripts

are dated between 480 B.C. and 318. A.D. Many of them contained entire books

of the Bible. The text matches our modern translations.

 

And the oldest bible ever found was written around 400CE and it contains a gospel of st. mark that is 10,000 words shorter than the current version of st. mark.  Authentic?  Bullshit.

[mymistake]

 

There is more evidence for the Bible’s authenticity than for any literature of antiquity. 

 

 

 

Rubbish.

 

 

 

One example:

The Dead Sea Scrolls found in several caves between 1947-1956. The manuscripts

are dated between 480 B.C. and 318. A.D. Many of them contained entire books

of the Bible. The text matches our modern translations.

 

That simply proves the Old Testament was written earlier than 500 B.C.  In no way does this make the Christian Bible authentic.  It doesn't even make the Jewish Torah authentic.  The Jewish Torah is not much older than that.  It's full of myth and legend that never actually happened.

[Vigile]

Here in St Petersburg in the Hermitage, I can see authentic Roman swords, helmets, contemporary busts and statues of the various Ceasars, original Roman coins, etc...  In fact, there is an entire city block inside the building dedicated to such original artifacts.  Yet not a single artifact exists of Jesus.  Not a single original manuscript penned by anyone who knew him or knew someone who knew someone who knew him.  Not a single bust, not a single fresco, not a single pubic hair.

 

So, when you come here claiming a collection of books is more represented and authentic, I have to wonder what kind of papyrus you are rolling your weed in. 

[falemon]

5000 people were supposedly fed by a miracle, and yet there is no account of it outside of the Bible.

 

Supposedly in a wedding water was turned into wine, and yet there is no account of it outside of the Bible.

 

There supposedly a tax collector amongst the followers of Jesus, yet we see no record of him keeping account of his experience. Quite unusual for someone who had a career keeping record.

 

There was supposedly a man brought back from the dead, yet their family made no account of this, nor his immediate friends, nor the town members.

 

To me it just sounds like this, writing systems had evolved to a point where it was cheap to lay down any stupid story. The bible is just one of them!

[midniterider]

 

 

 

OK...

 

My question:

 

How do yo study scripture correctly? What edition do you need to do so? The ancient greek one? Or hebrew? What background knowledge would you suggest? What parts of the bible are to take literally and what parts are symbolic and why?

 

I have seen cults explaining their wicked theories all backed up with scriptures and you could not even say they had interpreted it the wrong way...

 

So what tells you, you are studying scriptures right and everyone else isn't?

 

-To study scriptures I view in interpret other scriptures using the four Gospel accounts.

-There are several good English translations. I use the NIV Study Bible. 

-I can't read Greek or Hebrew,

-A background knowledge of other religions would help in understanding the

uniqueness of the Christian faith. Also history books on ancient people and

civilizations.

-You have to consider the context in order to determine literal or symbolic. 

Why? If a text read, "He had so many bees in his head he couldn't think."

Would the bees be literal or symbolic?

 

Name a cult and let's see where they have twisted scripture. It's easy.

 

I did not say everyone else is wrong. I don't claim to be correct in

everything...there are parts of scripture that remain a mystery, but

I try to read and understand them.

 

I will say that the major theme and

message of the Bible I do undersatand.

 

 

To say one has to study scripture correctly is implying that there is a way of right and wrong. Thats why I asked how you read scripture correctly.

 

Now if you can't read ancient hebrew or ancient greek, how do you know the translation you are reading is good? I mean a translation always falls short because there is much lost in the context of language alone. It is why you can choose to see a movie in its original language with subtitles or dubbed when going to the cinema in switzerland.

Now even if you are fluent in english and watching an american movie here, you don't get all it's jokes and clues if you have not experienced it's culture first hand by living there for a while and have gotten to know the american lifestyle. Even though I come from a western culture there are still so many differences that something can be totally normal in one while in the other it just makes no sense.

 

I can tell you some typical misunderstandings that happen to swiss people in the US. If someone tells you; Why don't you wash the dishes? The person means: Would you please wash the dishes. What someone like me understands though is: You should be washing the dishes by now! A polite question understood as a very rude command (and yes that happened to me while I spent a semester in the US...got irritated every time until I was back home and finally got the meaning of that phrase and then I felt pretty sorry). Or the expression: Hit the road! Makes you think: WTF? Why should anyone hit the road? I mean is there a magic fountain going off like when Moses hit the rock? So language is crucial I think if you propose a correct way of reading scriptures and not only language but actually having experienced a culture. So this leads to my next question:

 

How deep do you go into background knowledge? How much history have you studied to really understand its context?

In my opinion you would have to actually spend time in ancient palestine territory...because otherwise you can only assume and guess and you need to study amounts of history...compare different accounts of history on it's accuracy etc.

 

I am sorry but I don't remember the cult I have watched the video of and was so amazed about it's scriptural backing. It was a guy who had claimed to be the incarnation of Jesus and had several women living with him at a piece of land God had promised them etc. He was caught for having sexual relations with minor's...and while the investigation was in progress and he was in prison the cult members saw this as persecution and an affirmation of them having found the real deal. This is about six years ago now. So maybe you know what I am talking about.

When you listened to the testimonies of those girls being members of that cult, it was not much different then listening to a christian giving his testimony. Only that this girls talked about a guy they actually have a personal relationship with (even though a pretty unhealthy one) instead of an imaginary friend...

I am sure you can point out where this guy has twisted scripture...as much as I probably could point out where you might have twisted scriptures...because thats the problem with scriptures...since no one has actually lived at the time it has been written and the events portrayed in it have or have not happened...it is hard to tell who is studying scripture right. And when you look at all the different denominations and cults and all the different interpretation of certain passages I think the conclusion is, there is hardly a correct way to study scriptures. Or how do you explain all that? Why do you think your way of studying scripture is more correct then someone else's who might come to other conclusions about it then you do?

 

 

 

There is more evidence for the Bible’s authenticity than for any literature of antiquity. 

 

One example:

The Dead Sea Scrolls found in several caves between 1947-1956. The manuscripts

are dated between 480 B.C. and 318. A.D. Many of them contained entire books

of the Bible. The text matches our modern translations.

 

 

Instead of looking to archaeology and ancient books to show God is real, why not just have God come down and visit us all in person?

[Bob903]

Do you believe you were made in the image of god? You are god

 

Second do you believe you were made to worship god? You are gods servant.

 

Choose one or none, they both can't be true. I choose none.

[moanareina]

 

There is more evidence for the Bible’s authenticity than for any literature of antiquity. 

 

One example:

The Dead Sea Scrolls found in several caves between 1947-1956. The manuscripts

are dated between 480 B.C. and 318. A.D. Many of them contained entire books

of the Bible. The text matches our modern translations.

 

 

OK Ironhorse...first, where did I say the bible is not authentic. I said to understand it correctly you would have to know ancient hebrew and greek and also you would have to have lived in that time and got to know the culture etc.

 

Then, even if the bible was authentic due to this example you name...and I have heard backwards and forwards before because really, I have been in this religion for more then 25 years and I repeat that as much as I have to until you get it because obviously you don't...that only says there have been people writing the bible but it does not make it's content any truer or falser. It is not a validation of the bible being true or not it only says the books of the bible have been written. It does not say why. You see the point?

 

And...that the bible has not been the bible when the gospels or all the other new testament stuff was written is still fact. No bible, only the law and some prophets.

[TheRedneckProfessor]

OK Ironhorse...first, where did I say the bible is not authentic. I said to understand it correctly you would have to know ancient hebrew and greek and also you would have to have lived in that time and got to know the culture etc.

Sorry moanareina, but I'm inclined to disagree.  If the bible is genuinely the infallible, inerrant, revelation of an omniscient, omnipotent god, who is the same today, yesterday, and forever, then we should be able to understand it without in-depth knowledge of the ancient cultures in which it was written. 

 

Romeo and Juliet was written in a different time and culture.  Nonetheless, Brazilians are able to understand the hatred of the Montagues and Capulets, even if they are not well-versed in 16th century British history.  People in China can feel and empathize with the love that Romeo and Juliet shared even if they are not linguists or fluent in the high language of Elizabethan England.  The most emotionally elegant presentation of the play I ever saw was a performance in Russian; and the message came through perfectly even if I didn't understand a word of it. 

 

A finite, mortal human wrote a masterpiece 600 years ago that still to this day universally touches and inspires people of all nationalities and all walks of life.  Shouldn't an omnipotent, omniscient god be able to do just as good (if not better)?

[sdelsolray]

 

…

-I read Darwin's book way back as a teenager in my father's library and I read it several

 times since then. I have read many books on evolution written by evolutionists. I don't

 believe it.

 

…

 

Perhaps you can explain why you do not "believe it".

 

1)  Is it because, after your exhaustive study and research, you have falsified the biological theory of evolution utilizing the scientific method?

2)  Is it because the explanations and predictions of the biological theory of evolution conflict with your religious faith (see above for a "faith" discussion)?

3)  For some other reason?

 

Please try to avoid injecting logical fallacies into your explanation, such as the argument from incredulity fallacy, the mere assertion fallacy, unless, of course, your rely on such logical fallacies for your belief.

 

Thank you in advance for your honesty.

 

Third Request for a response to this thread.