Christians: Define A Personal Relationship With Jesus

[falemon]

 

You want an answer you can put in a laboratory to test it?  Doesn't necessarily work that way, however, in Galatians 5 it speaks of the world knowing the believer by the fruit they produce.  Good fruit produces good fruit, bad fruit produces bad fruit plain and simple. 

 

Every born-again believer has the indwelling Holy Spirit. Jesus told us that when the Comforter has come He will be with us and in us. “And I will ask the Father, and he will give you another Counselor to be with you forever—the Spirit of truth. The world cannot accept him, because it neither sees him nor knows him. But you know him, for he lives with you and will be in you” (John 14:16-17).

 

 

 

Nothing to do with laboratory tests, and all to do with communication.

 

Let's examine what I mean. Say someone made this statement:

"A relationship with christ is of utmost importance, probably the most important indication of a christian".

 

If a "relationship with christ" is not well defined, then the sentence actually means this:

"∂ is of utmost importance, probably the most important indication of a christian".

 

Because "relationship with christ" has no definitive meaning, so the sentence itself has no meaning either.

 

But you might then say that it is certain, it's just a relationship, right? Well no, because the typical meaning of relationships indicate two way interactions, and that is not the case. There is no physical Jesus to relate to or see, and no physical response. Is it actually the case that Jesus is nothing more than an agent within your own mind? If so then the love you have is for an imaginary figure within your own mind.

[Ravenstar]

See.. you just can't do it.. you can not speak for yourself, just quote scripture.

 

sigh  seems you are a Bot.

[TheBluegrassSkeptic]

Thanks for the try, Zomberina. But that's really not quite it.

 

A description of a relationship with Jesus would also have to include what Jesus does and how Jesus and the other person in the relationship interact. Specifically. What you describe is still one-sided. It describes would you would do, but leaves out what Jesus would do back at you. Or with you. Or for you. It leaves out the ordinary, everyday interactions that make up a relationship.

Actually MerrG, the OP dropped the ball on what the definition of relationship is. Interaction does not have to be a part of that. Devil's advocate here. I did define relationship in my answer since the OP gave no definition to work off of.

 

"because the relationship is the similarity/likeness to Christ"

 

**Edited** Forgot the paragraph below..oy!

 

Jesus did technically interact with me because he set the example for me to follow, and I interact with him by trying to live in his likeness.

 

(This is PURE previous fundamentalist babbledy gook here. I already know the error of thinking this way and you do not need to point it out.   ) I recognize that the whole relationship spiel is purely fundy originated anyhow. Stupid imo.

[mymistake]

You can prove my relationship with Christ by the fruit I produce.  The daily thankfulness I get to live in this world everyday and make a difference in somebody's life (hopefully good), the time I get to spend having him to talk to me through his Word, the time with him in prayer, the wonderful miracles in my life and yes, prayers do get answered, revelations that are supernatural and unbelievable unless one was a believer, knowing that his promises are true and irrevocable as displayed with the rise and fall and rise again of the nation of Israel, seeing prophecy in the bible fulfilled before our very eyes in this generation, having the presence of God surround and completely envelope me during times of prayer and worship, healing in my body and mind, removed all bitterness and hate I had towards those who have betrayed me, answering prayers again, pointing me to the truths in his Word and wanting to share them with believers and non-believers alike.

 

How have I not passed the lab test?  Judgementalism, arrogance, pride, all those I have done and still do.  I am not perfect, and knowing that I am being judged and condemned at times, I still have a Father in heaven who by his amazing grace still loves me and points me to do better.   

 

You could do all that with an imaginary friend.  An imaginary relationship doesn't prove somebody is real.

[TheBluegrassSkeptic]

See.. you just can't do it.. you can not speak for yourself, just quote scripture.

 

sigh  seems you are a Bot.

Agreed! I totally believe anyone that relies on a God as the originator for morals and action is an animated piece of meat. Cannot think for oneself.

[ExCBooster]

A "relationship with God" still makes no case for Christianity, specifically. Tons of religions are based on relationships with deities, from Chinese folk religion, to Voudou. Heck, if you think you can PRAY to something, and get any sort of response, this qualifies. Christianity is special, and, ultimately correct because...? Why, exactly?

[Pantophobia]

 

 

You can prove my relationship with Christ by the fruit I produce.

 

You sure said it, kid.

[TheRedneckProfessor]

When I was in the Assemblies of God, people put a lot of emphasis on what they took to be direct, extrabiblical, and individualized communication to themselves from God. They would speak easily about the Lord's leading them, giving them a burden for something, convicting them - these I understand to be ways of talking about a strong sense of conviction. Then they'd represent conversations, as "and then the Lord said... and I said... but the Lord said" People would nod and say "amen" to these portrayals of communication.

 

this isn't even to mention speaking in tongues, being slain in the Spirit, etc.

 

So the words of the song, "He walks with me and talks with me along life's narrow way" were taken in virtually a literal sense.

 

If you really pushed someone, I think few would say they heard an audible voice. I at least don't remember anyone claiming voices. It was more that they read their strong convictions as productions of God's communication in them. They emphasized that the words of scripture are God's communication.

 

This was the exact relationship that I had with jesus when I was a Christian.

[Storm]

You can prove my relationship with Christ by the fruit I produce.  The daily thankfulness I get to live in this world everyday and make a difference in somebody's life (hopefully good), the time I get to spend having him to talk to me through his Word, the time with him in prayer, the wonderful miracles in my life and yes, prayers do get answered, revelations that are supernatural and unbelievable unless one was a believer, knowing that his promises are true and irrevocable as displayed with the rise and fall and rise again of the nation of Israel, seeing prophecy in the bible fulfilled before our very eyes in this generation, having the presence of God surround and completely envelope me during times of prayer and worship, healing in my body and mind, removed all bitterness and hate I had towards those who have betrayed me, answering prayers again, pointing me to the truths in his Word and wanting to share them with believers and non-believers alike.

 

How have I not passed the lab test?  Judgementalism, arrogance, pride, all those I have done and still do.  I am not perfect, and knowing that I am being judged and condemned at times, I still have a Father in heaven who by his amazing grace still loves me and points me to do better.   

The people in this community regularly produce fruit, good fruit. I have seen and experienced many of the fruits of the spirit exemplified by members of this community towards others who have reached out. I would argue that the things I have seen would actually go farther in the world because they were done from the kindness and generosity of someone who actually cared about making the world a better place to live, not to serve some god who dictates that those who follow him be this way and bear this type of fruit. A relationship with god cannot exist because the relationship is entirely one sided. You receive revelations that you interpreted and read. You discern the word and you come to the conclusions that shape your faith and what you believe. You base your religious experience on things that fit what you believe and what agrees with you. You attend a church that preaches and teaches what you are comfortable with. Everything about an ordinary Christian life is entirely subjective to the person who is trying to live the lifestyle of a Christian. It is all one sided. God does nothing. There is no relationship.

[Fernweh]

 

When I was in the Assemblies of God, people put a lot of emphasis on what they took to be direct, extrabiblical, and individualized communication to themselves from God. They would speak easily about the Lord's leading them, giving them a burden for something, convicting them - these I understand to be ways of talking about a strong sense of conviction. Then they'd represent conversations, as "and then the Lord said... and I said... but the Lord said" People would nod and say "amen" to these portrayals of communication.

 

this isn't even to mention speaking in tongues, being slain in the Spirit, etc.

 

So the words of the song, "He walks with me and talks with me along life's narrow way" were taken in virtually a literal sense.

 

If you really pushed someone, I think few would say they heard an audible voice. I at least don't remember anyone claiming voices. It was more that they read their strong convictions as productions of God's communication in them. They emphasized that the words of scripture are God's communication.

 

This was the exact relationship that I had with jesus when I was a Christian.

 

 

Same here. When I was a believer I felt I had a constant internal dialog with God himself. Now I'm an atheist and still have the same internal dialog but I know it's my own consciousness and not some deity. I spent a lot of years talking to "god" but I was only talking to myself. 

[mymistake]

 

 

When I was in the Assemblies of God, people put a lot of emphasis on what they took to be direct, extrabiblical, and individualized communication to themselves from God. They would speak easily about the Lord's leading them, giving them a burden for something, convicting them - these I understand to be ways of talking about a strong sense of conviction. Then they'd represent conversations, as "and then the Lord said... and I said... but the Lord said" People would nod and say "amen" to these portrayals of communication.

 

this isn't even to mention speaking in tongues, being slain in the Spirit, etc.

 

So the words of the song, "He walks with me and talks with me along life's narrow way" were taken in virtually a literal sense.

 

If you really pushed someone, I think few would say they heard an audible voice. I at least don't remember anyone claiming voices. It was more that they read their strong convictions as productions of God's communication in them. They emphasized that the words of scripture are God's communication.

 

This was the exact relationship that I had with jesus when I was a Christian.

 

 

Same here. When I was a believer I felt I had a constant internal dialog with God himself. Now I'm an atheist and still have the same internal dialog but I know it's my own consciousness and not some deity. I spent a lot of years talking to "god" but I was only talking to myself. 

 

 

Same here.

[midniterider]

I have a relationship with my wife. She is real and I can talk to her and she talks back. I can detect her with all my senses. Jesus is just someone's imaginary friend. The relationship with my wife is infinitely more satisfying than the one I ever had with my imaginary friend Jesus. The relationships that people have with other real people is infinitely more real than one could have with Jesus. Or Batman.

[DeadTOm]

You can prove my relationship with Christ by the fruit I produce...

Yet another tired argument that doesn't actually prove anything. I've accomplished things in my life that, with my background and my disadvantages, I never should have been able to do. Statistically speaking, I should have died as a result of alcoholism/drug abuse and mental illness before hitting the age of 35. I proved it all wrong. I spent eight years in the army, graduated from college, landed several really good jobs in a difficult and competitive field and managed to recover from losing it all to the recession. I did it all without any help from Jesus. I'm also in no way unique. Plenty of people have gone on to lead very fulfilling and successful lives without the help of any imaginary friend.

 

I don't see how it's even possible to have a personal relationship with Jesus. Putting aside the fact that Jesus doesn't exist, you can't have a personal relationship with someone that you can't actually talk to. You cannot sit down over coffee with Jesus, look him in the face and pour out your heart, while getting actual, literal, spoken word feed back from him. You can't call him up on the phone and get advice or ask him how his day was. You can't invite him over to watch a movie, throw back a few beers together and give each other a hard time like you do with your friends.

 

I don't need my friends to prove to me that they exist because... well that's just a stupid idea isn't it? I can see my friend Jasen. I can actually, physically see him and actually, physically hear his voice. I don't need to look closely at the world around me for subtle, indirect clues that he's there or that he's been there.

 

Man. That whole "personal relationship with Jesus" idea is just asinine.

[Ellwood]

You can prove my relationship with Christ by the fruit I produce.  The daily thankfulness I get to live in this world everyday and make a difference in somebody's life (hopefully good), the time I get to spend having him to talk to me through his Word, the time with him in prayer, the wonderful miracles in my life and yes, prayers do get answered, revelations that are supernatural and unbelievable unless one was a believer, knowing that his promises are true and irrevocable as displayed with the rise and fall and rise again of the nation of Israel, seeing prophecy in the bible fulfilled before our very eyes in this generation, having the presence of God surround and completely envelope me during times of prayer and worship, healing in my body and mind, removed all bitterness and hate I had towards those who have betrayed me, answering prayers again, pointing me to the truths in his Word and wanting to share them with believers and non-believers alike.

 

How have I not passed the lab test?  Judgementalism, arrogance, pride, all those I have done and still do.  I am not perfect, and knowing that I am being judged and condemned at times, I still have a Father in heaven who by his amazing grace still loves me and points me to do better.   

 

On another level, this sounds SO self-centered.   Lots of: "I get...", "..in my life", "..healing me..", "...God surround me..", 

 

May I suggest another approach that doesn't sound like your evidence is only about making you feel good but rather should have merit on its own and not JUST because it is all about what it does for you?    Lots of third world countries could use some direct evidence of his relationship and help.

 

Referring back to the old "what would Jesus do" from my believing years, I think I am looking for kind of a "what would Jesus say" for evidence.   Bet it would not be all about him like the warm and fuzzy self-centered you present here.  

[par4dcourse]

Onto the next thread.  Your to Christians threads are nothing more then the sole purpose of to mock, belittle, degrade, etc.  I can get that elsewhere here.

 

*sniff* I'm getting my tiny violin out. Unless that would offend you. Then I will play louder.

[MerryG]

 

Onto the next thread.  Your to Christians threads are nothing more then the sole purpose of to mock, belittle, degrade, etc.  I can get that elsewhere here.

*sniff* I'm getting my tiny violin out. Unless that would offend you. Then I will play louder.

 

 

DAMNIT! Out of upvotes AGAIN!

[Ravenstar]

I upvoted for you MerryG!

[MerryG]

I upvoted for you MerryG!

 

Thanks, Ravenstar! Great teamwork.

 

But hey, where can a girl get an extra helping of awardable reputation points around here? I'm willing to earn them through merit or pay a bribe to get them. I'm not fussy. There's just too much good stuff and to few upvotes to go around.

[TheRedneckProfessor]

 

I upvoted for you MerryG!

 

Thanks, Ravenstar! Great teamwork.

 

But hey, where can a girl get an extra helping of awardable reputation points around here? I'm willing to earn them through merit or pay a bribe to get them. I'm not fussy. There's just too much good stuff and to few upvotes to go around.

 

They need to work out a system whereby unused up-votes can be traded.  I always forget to use mine and end up with a surplus.  Do these things roll over like cell phone minutes used to?  If so, I'm sitting on Fort Knox.

[sdelsolray]

You can prove my relationship with Christ by the fruit I produce.  The daily thankfulness I get to live in this world everyday and make a difference in somebody's life (hopefully good), the time I get to spend having him to talk to me through his Word, the time with him in prayer, the wonderful miracles in my life and yes, prayers do get answered, revelations that are supernatural and unbelievable unless one was a believer, knowing that his promises are true and irrevocable as displayed with the rise and fall and rise again of the nation of Israel, seeing prophecy in the bible fulfilled before our very eyes in this generation, having the presence of God surround and completely envelope me during times of prayer and worship, healing in my body and mind, removed all bitterness and hate I had towards those who have betrayed me, answering prayers again, pointing me to the truths in his Word and wanting to share them with believers and non-believers alike.

 

How have I not passed the lab test?  Judgementalism, arrogance, pride, all those I have done and still do.  I am not perfect, and knowing that I am being judged and condemned at times, I still have a Father in heaven who by his amazing grace still loves me and points me to do better.   

You are merely another "me, me, me" Christian.  Who has no credibility.  Who has serious delusions.  Who has clinical emotional and psychological dysfunctions.

 

You have my sympathy.

[MerryG]

 

 

I upvoted for you MerryG!

 

Thanks, Ravenstar! Great teamwork.

 

But hey, where can a girl get an extra helping of awardable reputation points around here? I'm willing to earn them through merit or pay a bribe to get them. I'm not fussy. There's just too much good stuff and to few upvotes to go around.

 

They need to work out a system whereby unused up-votes can be traded.  I always forget to use mine and end up with a surplus.  Do these things roll over like cell phone minutes used to?  If so, I'm sitting on Fort Knox.

 

 

Great idea, Prof! Only I'm trying to think of what we might have to offer in return. The only thing I can think of is to promise to cast a certain number of the traded upvotes on you, but the dubious ethics of that make mere bribery look honest.

[thereisnoperfect]

 The relationships that people have with other real people is infinitely more real than one could have with Jesus. Or Batman.

Hey, Batman: the Dark Knight Returns changed my life. Don't you go questioning my relationship with Batman!

[TheRedneckProfessor]

 

 

 

I upvoted for you MerryG!

 

Thanks, Ravenstar! Great teamwork.

 

But hey, where can a girl get an extra helping of awardable reputation points around here? I'm willing to earn them through merit or pay a bribe to get them. I'm not fussy. There's just too much good stuff and to few upvotes to go around.

 

They need to work out a system whereby unused up-votes can be traded.  I always forget to use mine and end up with a surplus.  Do these things roll over like cell phone minutes used to?  If so, I'm sitting on Fort Knox.

 

 

Great idea, Prof! Only I'm trying to think of what we might have to offer in return. The only thing I can think of is to promise to cast a certain number of the traded upvotes on you, but the dubious ethics of that make mere bribery look honest.

 

I'd gladly give them away because I feel bad about forgetting to use them.

[francesco]

You can prove my relationship with Christ by the fruit I produce.  The daily thankfulness I get to live in this world everyday and make a difference in somebody's life (hopefully good), the time I get to spend having him to talk to me through his Word, the time with him in prayer, the wonderful miracles in my life and yes, prayers do get answered, revelations that are supernatural and unbelievable unless one was a believer, knowing that his promises are true and irrevocable as displayed with the rise and fall and rise again of the nation of Israel, seeing prophecy in the bible fulfilled before our very eyes in this generation, having the presence of God surround and completely envelope me during times of prayer and worship, healing in my body and mind, removed all bitterness and hate I had towards those who have betrayed me, answering prayers again, pointing me to the truths in his Word and wanting to share them with believers and non-believers alike.

 

How have I not passed the lab test?  Judgementalism, arrogance, pride, all those I have done and still do.  I am not perfect, and knowing that I am being judged and condemned at times, I still have a Father in heaven who by his amazing grace still loves me and points me to do better.   

when I read it,I think it is still too general

I talked with many christians, they were able to say a more specific case

one that I talked to is testify how god saves his life from a boat accident that almost took his life

he did really glad that other people in the boat were not panicked and there was another boat nearby even though it was a quiet day and not many boat around

and of course, he relate his experience on how god works in his life

not many will have the same experience, it is a very personal experience to him

 

can you make your statement to be more specific?

for example, when you say god talk through "the wonderful miracles in my life and yes, prayers do get answered"

maybe you can specify a very specific miracle or answered prayer that is very unique/special to you that you would never remember

having personal relationship means you should have this kind of memory

[Pantophobia]

 

 

When I was in the Assemblies of God, people put a lot of emphasis on what they took to be direct, extrabiblical, and individualized communication to themselves from God. They would speak easily about the Lord's leading them, giving them a burden for something, convicting them - these I understand to be ways of talking about a strong sense of conviction. Then they'd represent conversations, as "and then the Lord said... and I said... but the Lord said" People would nod and say "amen" to these portrayals of communication.

 

this isn't even to mention speaking in tongues, being slain in the Spirit, etc.

 

So the words of the song, "He walks with me and talks with me along life's narrow way" were taken in virtually a literal sense.

 

If you really pushed someone, I think few would say they heard an audible voice. I at least don't remember anyone claiming voices. It was more that they read their strong convictions as productions of God's communication in them. They emphasized that the words of scripture are God's communication.

 

This was the exact relationship that I had with jesus when I was a Christian.

 

 

Same here. When I was a believer I felt I had a constant internal dialog with God himself. Now I'm an atheist and still have the same internal dialog but I know it's my own consciousness and not some deity. I spent a lot of years talking to "god" but I was only talking to myself. 

 

 

 

I kept hearing about this voice of God and clear signs and all of that, and praying more and doing more and having more faith, waiting to hear it. Nothing. But other people had these experiences, and told me about them! They told me what God was trying to say to me! Right? So I'd realize it must be because I'm a terrible person and a sinner and unworthy, and would be even MORE humble and faithful and thankful, aching to experience what others were telling me they felt through Christ. I tried reading the bible, I tried ignoring it in favor of the "essential truth" of God's love. I tried going to church regularly. I tried meditation in nature. I tried multiple approaches to God, and every single time, it was like screaming desperately into a void. It took almost 40 years before I could recognize that what I'd noticed in the very beginning, that the emperor had no clothes, was correct. I'd just been too afraid to say anything.