Guest Marty Posted February 4, 2014 Share Posted February 4, 2014 Onto the next thread. Your to Christians threads are nothing more then the sole purpose of to mock, belittle, degrade, etc. I can get that elsewhere here. While I see people here getting frustrated because you're not describing your personal relationship, I don't see any belittling going on. I just see people continuing to press you to answer the original question. And yes, even helping to clarify the question. That said, though, this is the Lion's Den, and you entered voluntarily. You understand as well as anybody that the rules here say you shouldn't even be here if you don't have a thick skin and aren't up for hard questioning. So all civility and basic human respect is thrown out the window when in here? That would be like having amnesty places in jail where anything goes for the jail guards because the prisoners looked at them the wrong way. Should the soldiers in Abu Ghraib be given amnesty because they were in a different country/environment. Please, I have the thickest of skin and have withstood a bit of verbal abuse without lowering myself to that level. You're the only one who perceives that all civility and basic respect is being thrown out the window. Yes, in fact the rules of the Lion's Den appear to me to allow exactly that, but all I'm seeing is people saying, "Just answer the question, already!" You speak of having a personal relationship to your god. You tell us that we should also have one. But when we ask you to describe your personal relationship -- that is, your ongoing, daily, mutual, specific, back-and-forth relationship with Jesus -- you can't or won't. I did answer the question, just not the answer nobody wanted to hear. You did not answer it. You answered a similar question because it was easier for you to do so. I will ask it again: What is your personal relationship with jesus like? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest SteveBennett Posted February 4, 2014 Share Posted February 4, 2014 I have really, greatly enjoyed reading Fungi's post. For me, I would personally describe a personal relationship with Jesus as a set of lenses or a state of mind. When I'm walking with my wife, and our relationship is good, I can tend to see things more clearly-- I can tend to be more deliberate, more perceptive, more discerning, more empathetic. When my relationship with her gets bad, I can tend to find myself doing irrational things like blame shifting, finger pointing, topic changing. . . you know. . . every immature manner of "ha! Gotcha." You know. . . trying to make her out to be the bad guy. . . conflating issues. . . the usual rigged games people play when their relationship is in upheaval. Just like any relationship we have that is important to us, when my relationship with God is where its suppose to be, everything is fine. If its not, then I can find myself doing any number of irrational things. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Marty Posted February 4, 2014 Share Posted February 4, 2014 Gee, that sounds exactly like my life and experiences, and I do not have any relationships with imaginary beings. I guess there really is no benefit to a relationship with jesus, since no one can speak of any without vague generalities or meaningless bible verses... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest SteveBennett Posted February 4, 2014 Share Posted February 4, 2014 Gee, that sounds exactly like my life and experiences. . . I expect it should. . . if its true that God created you to be a relational person (because He is a relational God). But of course whether or not that is true is a separate issue of evidence. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Marty Posted February 4, 2014 Share Posted February 4, 2014 Gee, that sounds exactly like my life and experiences, and I do not have any relationships with imaginary beings. I expect it should. . . if its true that God created you to be a relational person. So you are agreeing with me that your "relationship with jesus" offers nothing that any of us here don't also have without religion in our lives? Wow. That was easy! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest SteveBennett Posted February 4, 2014 Share Posted February 4, 2014 Gee, that sounds exactly like my life and experiences, and I do not have any relationships with imaginary beings. I expect it should. . . if its true that God created you to be a relational person. So you are agreeing with me that your "relationship with jesus" offers nothing that any of us here don't also have without religion in our lives? Wow. That was easy! No. I'm not. I'm not sure you've fully thought this whole Atheism thing through. . . This is the truth about atheism: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qndkC-vGLBw Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Marty Posted February 4, 2014 Share Posted February 4, 2014 Excuse me? WTF is it with christians who think they know what goes on in my head and what I have experienced!?!?! You DO NOT know me, and you have NO IDEA what I have considered in depth and agonized over. Take your fucking jesus and shove it up your ass. You have done nothing but be an arrogant prick and confirm our caricature of christians as "pretty accurate". PS: YouTube videos are not a primary source. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thereisnoperfect Posted February 4, 2014 Share Posted February 4, 2014 I've only had time to watch the first 7 minutes of your stupid video, but it is anything but the "truth about atheism" given that it's a theist offering highly selective philosophy and not consulting with actual atheists about what they think and feel. Kinda like you, Steve. How exactly are you treating us like you would have us treat you? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bornagainathiest Posted February 4, 2014 Share Posted February 4, 2014 To the Mods. This is the third thread SteveB has posted this video in. According to him it's the... "truth about atheism" ...so it's only a matter of time before he posts it again and again and again and... Another warning...please? Thanks. BAA Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Marty Posted February 4, 2014 Share Posted February 4, 2014 Gee, that sounds exactly like my life and experiences, and I do not have any relationships with imaginary beings. I expect it should. . . if its true that God created you to be a relational person. So you are agreeing with me that your "relationship with jesus" offers nothing that any of us here don't also have without religion in our lives? Wow. That was easy! No. I'm not. I'm not sure you've fully thought this whole Atheism thing through. . . This is the truth about atheism: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qndkC-vGLBw And if you are not agreeing with me that a relationship with jesus offers no benefit or insight I don't already have naturally without religion, why don't you tell us all here what it is like? All I have read so far is some bible verses and that it gives you the exact same perceptions and emotions that I have in everyday life. It's a real simple question. I wonder why christians have such a hard time answering it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest SteveBennett Posted February 4, 2014 Share Posted February 4, 2014 Excuse me? WTF is it with christians who think they know what goes on in my head and what I have experienced!?!?! You DO NOT know me, and you have NO IDEA what I have considered in depth and agonized over. Take your fucking jesus and shove it up your ass. You have done nothing but be an arrogant prick and confirm our caricature of christians as "pretty accurate". PS: YouTube videos are not a primary source. I never presumed to know anything about your personal life sir. . . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest SteveBennett Posted February 4, 2014 Share Posted February 4, 2014 It's a real simple question. And the video takes your question extremely seriously by exploring every facet and implication of your question with in depth research of thinkers who have pondered your question seriously over the centuries. Your question is what does a relationship with jesus offer that any of us here don't also have? Well. . . one would have to compare and contrast atheism with Christianity to find out. I'm sorry if you were looking for a punchline. But I think attempting a punchline would undermine how much serious thought so many people over the centuries have put into that question. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest SteveBennett Posted February 4, 2014 Share Posted February 4, 2014 To the Mods. This is the third thread SteveB has posted this video in. According to him it's the... "truth about atheism" ...so it's only a matter of time before he posts it again and again and again and... Another warning...please? Thanks. BAA That's because the video answers the question he posed to me with supporting research, reason, and examples. . . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest SteveBennett Posted February 4, 2014 Share Posted February 4, 2014 Think of it this way. If you asked me a question, and I gave you a link to something that was entirely unrelated (something I hadn't already spent my own time screening first), then I could see being upset. But the question is "what does Christianity offer than any of us don't already have." And in order to credibly answer that question for Marty one would have to explore the logical implications of Atheism (in its most general form, from its representatives throughout history) and then compare and contrast. All I, or Dr. Keller, is doing is taking Marty's question seriously. If his question wasn't meant to be taken seriously. . .then I apologize. I can't see tone of voice in someone's typing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bornagainathiest Posted February 4, 2014 Share Posted February 4, 2014 To the Mods. This is the third thread SteveB has posted this video in. According to him it's the... "truth about atheism" ...so it's only a matter of time before he posts it again and again and again and... Another warning...please? Thanks. BAA That's because the video answers the question he posed to me with supporting research, reason, and examples. . . And if the video also answers other questions put to you in other threads, you'll post it in them too? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderator Margee Posted February 4, 2014 Moderator Share Posted February 4, 2014 To the Mods. This is the third thread SteveB has posted this video in. According to him it's the... "truth about atheism" ...so it's only a matter of time before he posts it again and again and again and... Another warning...please? Thanks. BAA We're watching BAA....... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest SteveBennett Posted February 4, 2014 Share Posted February 4, 2014 To the Mods. This is the third thread SteveB has posted this video in. According to him it's the... "truth about atheism" ...so it's only a matter of time before he posts it again and again and again and... Another warning...please? Thanks. BAA That's because the video answers the question he posed to me with supporting research, reason, and examples. . . And if the video also answers other questions put to you in other threads, you'll post it in them too? Is that not allowed? If its against the rules then I won't. I just need to understand the rules of the lions Den. I did read before I entered. If I'm breaking any rules I'm always open to be corrected on which ones I'm breaking and I will comply. I just need guidance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderator Margee Posted February 4, 2014 Moderator Share Posted February 4, 2014 having the presence of God surround and completely envelope me You are so lucky to have been 'the chosen' one to have so many wonderful miracles in your life........ Go tell this to the starving children. Go tell this to the kids on the earth being sold for sex. Instead of praying to get a close parking spot today, it would be better for you to park 10 miles away... and while you walk to the store, pray for all the 'unchosen' and unfortunete people of the world. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super Moderator florduh Posted February 4, 2014 Super Moderator Share Posted February 4, 2014 Is that not allowed? If its against the rules then I won't. I just need to understand the rules of the lions Den. I did read before I entered. If I'm breaking any rules I'm always open to be corrected on which ones I'm breaking and I will comply. I just need guidance. Did we not discuss specifics in a pm? You don't need or even accept guidance. Strike two. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bornagainathiest Posted February 4, 2014 Share Posted February 4, 2014 Hey Steve! I can help you avoid that third strike! Go here... http://www.ex-christian.net/topic/60748-written-evidence-for-the-exodus/page-3 ...and address the points raised by thereisnoperfect in post #45. That should be safe enough ground for you! Thanks, BAA p.s. I'm maintaining a holding pattern on that Genesis 1:1 thread you've agree to meet me in. After all, if you get yourself banned, there's not much point me putting in the effort, is there? (Rhetorical question, btw.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bornagainathiest Posted February 4, 2014 Share Posted February 4, 2014 Hey, Steve... Here's some scripture for you to think about. Romans 13: 1 - 7, NIV. 1 Let everyone be subject to the governing authorities, for there is no authority except that which God has established. The authorities that exist have been established by God. 2 Consequently, whoever rebels against the authority is rebelling against what God has instituted, and those who do so will bring judgment on themselves. 3 For rulers hold no terror for those who do right, but for those who do wrong. Do you want to be free from fear of the one in authority? Then do what is right and you will be commended. 4 For the one in authority is God’s servant for your good. But if you do wrong, be afraid, for rulers do not bear the sword for no reason. They are God’s servants, agents of wrath to bring punishment on the wrongdoer. 5 Therefore, it is necessary to submit to the authorities, not only because of possible punishment but also as a matter of conscience. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pantophobia Posted February 4, 2014 Share Posted February 4, 2014 Is that not allowed? If its against the rules then I won't. I just need to understand the rules of the lions Den. I did read before I entered. If I'm breaking any rules I'm always open to be corrected on which ones I'm breaking and I will comply. I just need guidance. Let's see. He reads, but doesn't "understand." He breaks rules. He then insists that (rather than being autonomous and reflecting on his own actions), he needs "guidance" for "correction." And yet we're supposed to believe you have some superior knowledge about Jesus, Steve? Yeah, no. Our starting point is "reading and understanding" things, and then constantly refining and improving our body of knowledge. Frankly, your way of "understanding" represents an entirely different world view and approach to knowledge than most ex-Christians. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mymistake Posted February 4, 2014 Share Posted February 4, 2014 To the Mods. This is the third thread SteveB has posted this video in. According to him it's the... "truth about atheism" ...so it's only a matter of time before he posts it again and again and again and... Another warning...please? Thanks. BAA That's because the video answers the question he posed to me with supporting research, reason, and examples. . . No it doesn't. The vid is just a sermon. It is pure preaching. It is a cluster of fallacies seasoned by cherry picking. Here is an example of the bad logic: -6:10 he points out that many people in New York are living to be free. -6:42 he lays out his thesis that living to be free is an untenable position -6:45 he appeals to authority ". . . all the great thinkers will say if you want absolute freedom to live your life the way you want then you have got to admit the utter meaningless of life." -7:09 he claims "Nobody can live that way" But wait, this contradicts what he said at 6:10 when in fact many New Yorkers do live to be free. And of course he finally gets around to the religious agenda with: -7:28 "Because life does have meaning and both freedom and meaning are found in Jesus Christ!" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pantophobia Posted February 4, 2014 Share Posted February 4, 2014 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fernweh Posted February 4, 2014 Share Posted February 4, 2014 Excuse me? WTF is it with christians who think they know what goes on in my head and what I have experienced!?!?! You DO NOT know me, and you have NO IDEA what I have considered in depth and agonized over. Take your fucking jesus and shove it up your ass. You have done nothing but be an arrogant prick and confirm our caricature of christians as "pretty accurate". PS: YouTube videos are not a primary source. I never presumed to know anything about your personal life sir. . . You have done nothing but presume to know the thoughts and feelings of people on this forum; just like all the other True Christians before you. You receive a lot of hostility from us for this because many of us know this mindset, have lived it ourselves, and have seen the error of our ways. I'm an ex-smoker and I find the smell of cigarettes to be absolutely repugnant; more so than before I started smoking. Your presumptions and self projections of your own mind onto us are offensive in the same manner. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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