Christians: Define A Personal Relationship With Jesus

[Guest SteveBennett]

Steve,

 

Do you or do you NOT have a relationship with Jesus Christ? It is a yes or no question. There is no trick question, there is no games, it is a simple one word answer.

 

yes

[Guest MadameX]

Just posted this in the Ken Ham thread but it fits really well in this one, too!

 

:-D

 

 

"Social science research suggests that reasoning away contradictions is psychologically easier than revising feelings. In this sense, emotions are shown to color how "facts" are perceived. Feelings come first, and evidence is used mostly in service of those feelings. Evidence that supports what is already believed is accepted, that which contradicts it is not.^[14]"

[MerryG]

 

Steve,

 

Do you or do you NOT have a relationship with Jesus Christ? It is a yes or no question. There is no trick question, there is no games, it is a simple one word answer.

 

yes

 

 

Now, returning to the original topic of the thread: describe it. How do you and Jesus mutually relate to each other?

[disillusioned]

I, personally, think all roads lead to Jesus Christ...

...then I'm afraid you haven't followed them far enough yet.

[TheRedneckProfessor]

Look. . . a man's promises are only as good as his word.

 

If he makes them and doesn't keep them . . . then who would listen to him?

 

If he made them, and consistently kept them, then why on earth would I trust anyone's view over his promises?

 

If the bible is true and if God keeps his promises then what fool on this highly unlikely earth would ever choose to trust in the sorrow's of men than the hope of the living God?

 

That is . . . if He keeps His promises-- which is a historical question, not a modern one.

 

None of us can ever go anywhere but where our reasons lead us. . . and even method of approaching reason, I honestly believe, reflects our hearts and intentions. 

Well, he certainly never kept any of the promises made to me.  

 

And, no, it is not a historical question, given that the only document which describes his promises and his keeping of them is the bible, which is neither historical nor true.

[Geezer]

What does it mean to have a personal relationship with Jesus? Steve seems unable to answer that question but I can still remember that level of commitment.

 

When I was at that point of being “all in” for Jesus I can still remember those feelings. I was certain Jesus was actually part of me in some supernatural way. We essentially were one. Unfortunately, our “oneness” wasn’t an uplifting or satisfying experience. I remember it being mostly feelings of fear, uncertainty, and the eerie feeling of being watched and evaluated 24/7.

 

I was constantly “on guard” and aware of everything I did, said, and thought. If I had a thought that seemed like it might be sinful I would immediately ask for forgiveness. I was very careful about my language and tried to suppress my emotions as much as possible. I was acutely aware of my surroundings, especially around other Christians, and made a conscious attempt to “talk the talk” and “walk the walk”. When I was in the presence of other Christians I purposely tried to say “Churchy things” as a way of confirming my faith and worthiness.

 

Truthfully, looking back on all of that now, it was like I was a bug being observed under a microscope every second of the day. At some point I just couldn’t live like that anymore. It took years of study to convince me it was all manmade B.S.

 

I was still active on the Ex-Church of Christ support board, but I had clearly drifted away from the herd by then. I had become very vocal about my personal misgivings related to the bible and Christianity itself. The day eventually came when another poster asked me directly, “Are you even a Christian anymore.” I remember that day clearly. The question hit me like someone had thrown a bucket of cold water in my face. I typed my response and then just sat there looking at the monitor. In bold print I had typed the word “NO” I am not Christian anymore.  I stared at my words for awhile and then I hit the post button. That was the day and moment I de-converted. It felt like I had just been released from prison. It was an exhilarating feeling of relief. It was over. I’d served my sentence and now I was free, truly free for the first time in more than 40 years.

 

So, yes I had a personal relationship with Jesus….and it sucked.

[par4dcourse]

"No. I'm not. I'm not sure you've fully thought this whole Atheism thing through. . . "

 

Funniest damn thing Stevie has said to date. Very revealing toward why he's here. We apparently woke up one morning and said "I think I'll quit believing in jeebus today for no apparent reason."

[Vigile]

Look. . . a man's promises are only as good as his word.

 

If he makes them and doesn't keep them . . . then who would listen to him?

 

If he made them, and consistently kept them, then why on earth would I trust anyone's view over his promises?

 

If the bible is true and if God keeps his promises then what fool on this highly unlikely earth would ever choose to trust in the sorrow's of men than the hope of the living God?

 

That is . . . if He keeps His promises-- which is a historical question, not a modern one.

 

None of us can ever go anywhere but where our reasons lead us. . . and even method of approaching reason, I honestly believe, reflects our hearts and intentions. 

 

Your method must be a dozy if it allows you to believe in talking snakes, magically undead invisible friends and the lot while simultaneously overlooking the myriad of contradictions and a history riddled with violence, inconsistency and intrigue.  That there's a scientific method that an adherent to divining rods could be proud of. 

[bornagainathiest]

 

 

Steve,

 

Do you or do you NOT have a relationship with Jesus Christ? It is a yes or no question. There is no trick question, there is no games, it is a simple one word answer.

 

yes

 

 

Now, returning to the original topic of the thread: describe it. How do you and Jesus mutually relate to each other?

 

 

And if I may be so bold, Merry...

 

Steve, now that you've confirmed to Ramen that you do have a relationship with Jesus, would you please answer Merry's question without resorting to any of these.

.

.

.

 

A. Scripture.

B. Someone else's definition of how Jesus relates to them.

C. A video.

D. Repeating something you've already posted.

E. A link to anywhere else but this thread.

.

.

.

Sorry to cut in on you like this, Merry!

But this is like trying to pin down jello.  It can be done, but you've got to use a LOT of pins.

 

Thanks,

 

BAA

[Ravenstar]

Herding cats

[Guest end3]

I want to answer. If good and evil are absolutes outside of our knowledge, as the Bible suggests through Grace, then it is possible to have a relationship with Good, i.e. practice Good.

 

And if our practicing good doesn't get us what we wish, I would think it serves as a demonstration to God of faith in Christ.

[bornagainathiest]

I want to answer. If good and evil are absolutes outside of our knowledge, as the Bible suggests through Grace, then it is possible to have a relationship with Good, i.e. practice Good.

 

And if our practicing good doesn't get us what we wish, I would think it serves as a demonstration to God of faith in Christ.

 

OT legalism strikes again, End!

 

The title of this thread is... Christians: Define A Personal Relationship With Jesus.

 

Not... Christians: Define A Personal Relationship With An Absolute Good That's Outside Our Knowledge.

 

 

The two aren't the same.

 

 

BAA

[Ravenstar]

I want to answer. If good and evil are absolutes outside of our knowledge, as the Bible suggests through Grace, then it is possible to have a relationship with Good, i.e. practice Good.

 

And if our practicing good doesn't get us what we wish, I would think it serves as a demonstration to God of faith in Christ.

That's a whole lot of assumptions end3… IF good and evil are absolutes. This has not been established… it's not apparent in nature, that's for sure.

 

"Getting what we want" is kind of an immature way to view life, IMHO. Nature never promises we will get what we want… no, life is a struggle - that IS apparent when we view the nature of the universe. How does not getting what we want demonstrate a God of faith in Christ?

 

There is NO evidence that christians get what they 'want' any more than anyone else does. It all seems to be rather arbitrary.. some people get what they want, some don't. This is across the board and doesn't have any correlation with religion… if anything the less religious countries seem to have a much better standard of living and happiness index.

 

Non-christians 'practice good' as much as any christian does… I'm really not following this.

 

Am I missing something here?

[MerryG]

 

 

 

Steve,

 

Do you or do you NOT have a relationship with Jesus Christ? It is a yes or no question. There is no trick question, there is no games, it is a simple one word answer.

 

yes

 

 

Now, returning to the original topic of the thread: describe it. How do you and Jesus mutually relate to each other?

 

 

And if I may be so bold, Merry...

 

Steve, now that you've confirmed to Ramen that you do have a relationship with Jesus, would you please answer Merry's question without resorting to any of these.

.

.

.

 

A. Scripture.

B. Someone else's definition of how Jesus relates to them.

C. A video.

D. Repeating something you've already posted.

E. A link to anywhere else but this thread.

.

.

.

Sorry to cut in on you like this, Merry!

But this is like trying to pin down jello.  It can be done, but you've got to use a LOT of pins.

 

Thanks,

 

BAA

 

 

No worries, BAA! That was a good "cut in." Anyhow, my message was cutting in on your earlier conversation.

 

"But this is like trying to pin down jello.  It can be done, but you've got to use a LOT of pins."

 

I agree on the jello. I hope you bright people here have sufficient pins -- but I'll be surprised if you manage to pin SteveBennett down to anything.

[MerryG]

 

Non-christians 'practice good' as much as any christian does… I'm really not following this.

 

Am I missing something here?

 

 

Just guessing, but the comment End3 made seems to refer to a discussion he began in his "Tee-Shirt" thread. In which case it's not as off-the-wall as it seems, though perhaps it got misplaced? (Sorry if I'm misinterpreting, End!)

[Fernweh]

I'm actually stunned that our current crop of True Believers cannot give a concrete definition of their personal relationship with Jesus.

[mymistake]

I'm actually stunned that our current crop of True Believers cannot give a concrete definition of their personal relationship with Jesus.

 

 

They see the trap.  Any definition they give will be exposed as false.  And then Christianity is only a religion; a religion with leaders who often lie.

[Guest end3]

 

I want to answer. If good and evil are absolutes outside of our knowledge, as the Bible suggests through Grace, then it is possible to have a relationship with Good, i.e. practice Good.

 

And if our practicing good doesn't get us what we wish, I would think it serves as a demonstration to God of faith in Christ.

 

OT legalism strikes again, End!

 

The title of this thread is... Christians: Define A Personal Relationship With Jesus.

 

Not... Christians: Define A Personal Relationship With An Absolute Good That's Outside Our Knowledge.

 

 

The two aren't the same.

 

 

BAA

 

Doesn't matter BAA, Grace suggests that we are lacking. If I had all of the knowledge, I would know good and would know evil. I don't. To clarify, I am calling Christ the representation of absolute good....."I am the Truth..."

 

You may argue until you are blue, but if you accept that good and evil are outside of humanity, then, yes, I can have a "relationship" to the best of my ability, with "Good/Christ".

 

This also nullifies the discussion of I can be good without Christ.

[Guest end3]

I'm actually stunned that our current crop of True Believers cannot give a concrete definition of their personal relationship with Jesus.

What kind of definition do you want on something that is not completely defined?

[Guest end3]

 

I'm actually stunned that our current crop of True Believers cannot give a concrete definition of their personal relationship with Jesus.

 

 

They see the trap.  Any definition they give will be exposed as false.  And then Christianity is only a religion; a religion with leaders who often lie.

 

Give me time, y'all are wonderfully closed on this line of thinking and it hinders the discussion.

[mymistake]

 

 

I'm actually stunned that our current crop of True Believers cannot give a concrete definition of their personal relationship with Jesus.

 

 

They see the trap.  Any definition they give will be exposed as false.  And then Christianity is only a religion; a religion with leaders who often lie.

 

Give me time, y'all are wonderfully closed on this line of thinking and it hinders the discussion.

 

 

 

I'm open to objective evidence and sound logic.  If you look objectively at Christianity it falls right into the range of other human created religions.  Relationships are easy to define when they involve real people.  But these days people can have more of an objective relationship with their smart phone then they can with Jesus.  When Siri talks everybody in the room can hear it.

[Fernweh]

 

I'm actually stunned that our current crop of True Believers cannot give a concrete definition of their personal relationship with Jesus.

What kind of definition do you want on something that is not completely defined?

 

 

A personal relationship with Jesus is the very foundation of current evangelical Christianity. The very idea of a personal relationship would mean that each and every individual should have a different relationship since it's, you know, personal. You can't define that? I had a personal relationship that lasted for the better part of 39 years. I can describe and define it accurately. 

[Ravenstar]

What exactly is "Grace"?  I don't get this at all. How does it apply in the real world? What is the evidence that it is even a thing?

[Guest end3]

 

 

 

I'm actually stunned that our current crop of True Believers cannot give a concrete definition of their personal relationship with Jesus.

 

 

They see the trap.  Any definition they give will be exposed as false.  And then Christianity is only a religion; a religion with leaders who often lie.

 

Give me time, y'all are wonderfully closed on this line of thinking and it hinders the discussion.

 

Objective evidence: Can you treat me in a way that is totally beneficial to my life, needs, dreams, hopes, etc? Can we measure that?

 

 

I'm open to objective evidence and sound logic.  If you look objectively at Christianity it falls right into the range of other human created religions.  Relationships are easy to define when they involve real people.  But these days people can have more of an objective relationship with their smart phone then they can with Jesus.  When Siri talks everybody in the room can hear it.

 

[francesco]

 

I'm actually stunned that our current crop of True Believers cannot give a concrete definition of their personal relationship with Jesus.

What kind of definition do you want on something that is not completely defined?

That's interesting

So christian cannot define what is a real personal experience with god but can claim that these ex-Cs did not have a real personal experience with god?