thereisnoperfect Posted March 1, 2014 Share Posted March 1, 2014 The whole Christian doctrine stands or falls on this story. If no original sin, no need for atonement. Why was that tree put in the garden to begin with? it is like telling an innocent child play with anything in this room but do not touch that big teddy bear over there. Never made sense to me and still does not. This is what I was getting ready to say. End, what exactly do you think the "truth" of the myth is? If the truth of the myth is that people were good but became bad, that doesn't fit with evolution or with my experience of the world. If it's something else, perhaps you could articulate it so we could evaluate it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mymistake Posted March 1, 2014 Share Posted March 1, 2014 I'm understanding that people here are rigidly holding the story to a 24 hour day and also saying it could have taken millions or billions of years for the earth to get where it's at, yet belittle the story. It doesn't make sense to me bill that if there was so much incredulity regarding the story that there would even be a need to question the story at this point. I don't think it is unfair to allow for our lack of language difference given I have noticed the same in my short stint on earth. Obviously you do. I would expect that would be detrimental to relationship building, but that's your choice....being no better off than you are now as you put it. "Evening and morning" makes it very clear what the original author intended. They also make it clear that the sun does not drive evening and morning. Evenings and mornings are what tell the sun, moon and stars what to do. The sun obeys evening and mornings. Science is what tells us that that the Earth goes around the Sun and the Earth formed 4 billion years ago. Those facts are not found in Genesis because the Bible authors didn't know. To them the Sky was a firmament that was just a few thousand feet above the surface. Humans could almost build a tower that would reach heaven. In their minds a modern human skyscraper would be tall enough to reach the gods. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MerryG Posted March 1, 2014 Share Posted March 1, 2014 Hasatan planted the tree of the knowledge of good and evil because Adam neglected his function and purpose to tend the garden. That is why after they eat of it, the tree is no longer mentioned throughout the bible. The seed of the serpent is represented through Cain, Ishmael, Esau, Amalek, etc. The seed of the women is represented through Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, etc. Cliff note version. Ah. Well, I agree, that explains everything. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kris Posted March 1, 2014 Share Posted March 1, 2014 Who the hell is Hasatan? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MerryG Posted March 1, 2014 Share Posted March 1, 2014 Who the hell is Hasatan? Kris, do you really -- I mean really -- want the answer to that question? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
centauri Posted March 1, 2014 Share Posted March 1, 2014 Who the hell is Hasatan? Ha = the The adversary in this case. However, Satan (or Hasatan) is never mentioned anywhere in Genesis. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kris Posted March 1, 2014 Share Posted March 1, 2014 Nah-- I know who it is! But I just think it is funny how funguy uses these formal-type names, by the way, scripture doesn't appear to say that hasatan planted the tree of good and evil. It infers that god did. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mymistake Posted March 1, 2014 Share Posted March 1, 2014 Who the hell is Hasatan? Me, of course! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sdelsolray Posted March 1, 2014 Share Posted March 1, 2014 Hasatan planted the tree of the knowledge of good and evil because Adam neglected his function and purpose to tend the garden. That is why after they eat of it, the tree is no longer mentioned throughout the bible. The seed of the serpent is represented through Cain, Ishmael, Esau, Amalek, etc. The seed of the women is represented through Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, etc. Cliff note version. Your collaboration with ancient fictional writers is impressive. Fiction upon fiction is the result. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mymistake Posted March 1, 2014 Share Posted March 1, 2014 Hasatan planted the tree of the knowledge of good and evil because Adam neglected his function and purpose to tend the garden. That is why after they eat of it, the tree is no longer mentioned throughout the bible. The seed of the serpent is represented through Cain, Ishmael, Esau, Amalek, etc. The seed of the women is represented through Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, etc. Cliff note version. Thanks for sharing your fanfiction. Yes the Bible sure left plenty of lose ends that are ripe for sequels and prequels. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
amateur Posted March 1, 2014 Share Posted March 1, 2014 Wow, I wasn't on line in a couple days and this has certainly exploded in an odd way! I've gotta say that for me it comes down to (and it's already been posted here quite clearly) that the whole Adam and Eve story sounds like a myth and if there's no Original Sin, then the rest of the bible can be read as literature, not something true from an actual god. Decades of hearing the story and many, differing explanations behind it have not made it any clearer to me, only more mystifying as anything but a myth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RipVanWinkle Posted March 1, 2014 Share Posted March 1, 2014 "I'm understanding that people here are rigidly holding the story to a 24 hour day and also saying it could have taken millions or billions of years for the earth to get where it's at, yet belittle the story. It doesn't make sense to me bill that if there was so much incredulity regarding the story that there would even be a need to question the story at this point." End3 Is it possible that you don't realize that we Exchristians believe very strongly and for good reasons that the bible is literature written by mere men? Surely you know that. I don't think you are stupid at all. When we exXtrians argue about what the bible says or doesn't say we are trying to point out to Xtians inconsistencies, absurdities, or identity with or similarity to other ancient non Hebrew documents in order to emhpacize the fact that it is fiction. Apologists, on the other hand, deliberately misinterpret scriptures to try to make it fit their particular religion. So when you say we are "rigidly holding the story to a 24 hour day", it is you who are rigidly holding on to what the scripture doesn't say. We're just pointing out what the bible actually says. It's the apologists who rigidly hold on to what the bible does not say, pretending theirs is the obvious, straight forward interpretation. Why do they do that? Because those apologists that say Genesis "really" meant a time period much longer than what it says are trying to make the bible conform to scientific reality,even though it doesn't. We interpret the bible according to what it says even though many times it doesn't make any sense. In other words we don't have to "rigidly hold on to" Genesis saying the whole universe was made by god in 6 days; that's what it says. bill 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super Moderator TheRedneckProfessor Posted March 1, 2014 Author Super Moderator Share Posted March 1, 2014 Hasatan planted the tree of the knowledge of good and evil because Adam neglected his function and purpose to tend the garden. That is why after they eat of it, the tree is no longer mentioned throughout the bible. The seed of the serpent is represented through Cain, Ishmael, Esau, Amalek, etc. The seed of the women is represented through Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, etc. Cliff note version. This idea is not supported by a single passage in the entire bible; it is complete fiction. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest end3 Posted March 1, 2014 Share Posted March 1, 2014 One of the things about the A&E story that I enjoyed seeing was the Adam 1 vs Adam 2(Jesus) thing. Eve was from Adam's side as the Church, to me, is from Christ's side. When the guard speared the side of Jesus in his crucifixion. Blood and water symbolic of life and spirit as opposed to bone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super Moderator TheRedneckProfessor Posted March 2, 2014 Author Super Moderator Share Posted March 2, 2014 One of the things about the A&E story that I enjoyed seeing was the Adam 1 vs Adam 2(Jesus) thing. Eve was from Adam's side as the Church, to me, is from Christ's side. When the guard speared the side of Jesus in his crucifixion. Blood and water symbolic of life and spirit as opposed to bone. I was disappointed that they left out the entire part about Thor being the one true god. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sdelsolray Posted March 2, 2014 Share Posted March 2, 2014 One of the things about the A&E story that I enjoyed seeing was the Adam 1 vs Adam 2(Jesus) thing. Eve was from Adam's side as the Church, to me, is from Christ's side. When the guard speared the side of Jesus in his crucifixion. Blood and water symbolic of life and spirit as opposed to bone. Yes, fanciful details of a human and animal sacrifice cult, blood cult and death cult, taken together, appear to give you thrills. Others, myself included, would think it quite creepy, among other things. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
amateur Posted March 2, 2014 Share Posted March 2, 2014 ^^And Dorothy got safely home to Kansas! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WarriorPoet Posted March 2, 2014 Share Posted March 2, 2014 Hasatan planted the tree of the knowledge of good and evil because Adam neglected his function and purpose to tend the garden. That is why after they eat of it, the tree is no longer mentioned throughout the bible. The seed of the serpent is represented through Cain, Ishmael, Esau, Amalek, etc. The seed of the women is represented through Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, etc. Cliff note version. Wait a minute, if Adam was neglecting his "function and purpose to tend the garden" a purpose supposedly assigned by god himself, then wasn't he already sinning? If what you say is accurate, then the entire story of the fall in chapter 3 is inaccurate and is yet another example of the bible's fallibility. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mymistake Posted March 2, 2014 Share Posted March 2, 2014 One of the things about the A&E story that I enjoyed seeing was the Adam 1 vs Adam 2(Jesus) thing. Eve was from Adam's side as the Church, to me, is from Christ's side. When the guard speared the side of Jesus in his crucifixion. Blood and water symbolic of life and spirit as opposed to bone. Yes, fanciful details of a human and animal sacrifice cult, blood cult and death cult, taken together, appear to give you thrills. Others, myself included, would think it quite creepy, among other things. Yeah. Who sends their kids out to kill bugs when the kids have been bad? You disobeyed me. "Dig up a worm and burn it with fire so I can forgive you." Biblegod is a weird one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kris Posted March 2, 2014 Share Posted March 2, 2014 Wow--- do you actually read the crap you write? Cookoo cookoo! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest end3 Posted March 2, 2014 Share Posted March 2, 2014 ^^And Dorothy got safely home to Kansas! Have somewhere over the rainbow on my Ipod...lol. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super Moderator TheRedneckProfessor Posted March 2, 2014 Author Super Moderator Share Posted March 2, 2014 8 The Lord God planted a garden toward the east, in Eden; and there He placed the man whom He had formed. 9 Out of the ground the Lord God caused to grow every tree that is pleasing to the sight and good for food; the tree of life also in the midst of the garden, and the tree of the knowledge of good and evil. This verse makes it pretty clear that "Hasatan" did not plant the tree of knowledge in the garden; the lord god did. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sdelsolray Posted March 2, 2014 Share Posted March 2, 2014 8 The Lord God planted a garden toward the east, in Eden; and there He placed the man whom He had formed. 9 Out of the ground the Lord God caused to grow every tree that is pleasing to the sight and good for food; the tree of life also in the midst of the garden, and the tree of the knowledge of good and evil. This verse makes it pretty clear that "Hasatan" did not plant the tree of knowledge in the garden; the lord god did. Does that make Funguyrye mistaken, a liar or something else? Let's wait and see what he does with this additional fictional fact from the fiction under discussion. Of course, there is a high likelihood he will ignore this completely, or attempt to spin it into something else. That would demonstrate disingenuousness. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mymistake Posted March 2, 2014 Share Posted March 2, 2014 Does that make Funguyrye mistaken, a liar or something else? That ship sailed months ago. He will continue to do what he always does. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super Moderator TheRedneckProfessor Posted March 2, 2014 Author Super Moderator Share Posted March 2, 2014 8 The Lord God planted a garden toward the east, in Eden; and there He placed the man whom He had formed. 9 Out of the ground the Lord God caused to grow every tree that is pleasing to the sight and good for food; the tree of life also in the midst of the garden, and the tree of the knowledge of good and evil. This verse makes it pretty clear that "Hasatan" did not plant the tree of knowledge in the garden; the lord god did. Does that make Funguyrye mistaken, a liar or something else? Let's wait and see what he does with this additional fictional fact from the fiction under discussion. Of course, there is a high likelihood he will ignore this completely, or attempt to spin it into something else. That would demonstrate disingenuousness. I suspect he will claim that Hasatan planted the tree of knowledge and then god planted the garden including the tree of life around the tree of knowledge. He'll justify this claim by saying that everything god planted was "pleasing to the sight and good for food" and that god only planted trees that were good for people. What this explanation overlooks is: 1). The text states that when Eve looked upon the fruit of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil she found it was "pleasing to the sight and good for food." 2). If god planted the garden around the tree he knew would be the downfall of humanity, it doesn't exculpate him; it inculpates him. Morally, there is no difference between god actually planting the tree of knowledge and god planting the garden around the tree. The foreseeable result would have still been the same. Or, he will just ignore it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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