God Is A Liar

[RipVanWinkle]

When it comes to twisting the meaning of  scripture, Apologists have no shame.  bill

[Kris]

Funguy lives in his own delusional world, interpreting scriptures however he wants and hoping for the apocalypse...... So sad.

[Mudhoney]

 

 

And what would happen if your daughter did something you told her would harm her and she died.

 

Wait a minute.

 

You're talking about a child dying as a consequence of doing something stupidly disobedient. Car accident. Drug overdose. Getting murdered by an abusive boyfriend, whatever.

 

That's significantly different than a "father" inventing the entire concept of death, then inflicting death and all its attendant suffering on billions, trillions of living beings -- solely as a punishment because a couple of those beings (who, mind you did not yet know right from wrong) disobeyed him.

 

Two very, very, very different things. How can you possibly justify the latter? How can you possibly equate that degree of savagery to some young person suffering the natural consequences of doing something fatally careless or dumb?

 

If he invented both, and there was a need for his autonomous creation to know both, and to make a choice, then certainly there are consequences. And you are mad because everyone doesn't get saved? If God made it were everyone got it, where would the autonomy be? You would then be complaining of making robots of us all and having no freedom <insert What do you think Heaven is like thread here>.

 

 

Everyone but a brainwashed Christian can see how disgustingly sick the story of the Garden of Eden is. And, no, no one is getting “saved” because this sick story is not true. I wouldn’t treat anything on Earth the way Biblegod treats the beings he supposedly created. It’s disgusting. I’m betting my life on this story not being true. I wouldn’t have left xtianity if I wasn’t 100% sure it was a fake, sick, false story.

[Guest end3]

 

 

 

And what would happen if your daughter did something you told her would harm her and she died.

 

Wait a minute.

 

You're talking about a child dying as a consequence of doing something stupidly disobedient. Car accident. Drug overdose. Getting murdered by an abusive boyfriend, whatever.

 

That's significantly different than a "father" inventing the entire concept of death, then inflicting death and all its attendant suffering on billions, trillions of living beings -- solely as a punishment because a couple of those beings (who, mind you did not yet know right from wrong) disobeyed him.

 

Two very, very, very different things. How can you possibly justify the latter? How can you possibly equate that degree of savagery to some young person suffering the natural consequences of doing something fatally careless or dumb?

 

If he invented both, and there was a need for his autonomous creation to know both, and to make a choice, then certainly there are consequences. And you are mad because everyone doesn't get saved? If God made it were everyone got it, where would the autonomy be? You would then be complaining of making robots of us all and having no freedom <insert What do you think Heaven is like thread here>.

 

 

Everyone but a brainwashed Christian can see how disgustingly sick the story of the Garden of Eden is. And, no, no one is getting “saved” because this sick story is not true. I wouldn’t treat anything on Earth the way Biblegod treats the beings he supposedly created. It’s disgusting. I’m betting my life on this story not being true. I wouldn’t have left xtianity if I wasn’t 100% sure it was a fake, sick, false story.

 

Easy there ma'am. My discussion was speculation to the Prof's question of "why did God?" Next time, it's ok if you just say "FU" End3. Speculation ma'am. Sorry your so angry. Your closer to the edge than me. Step away from the edge, we're all going to make it.

[Mudhoney]

We all get angry from time to time. This is what you wrote to MerryG that made me get a little peeved:

 

"And you are mad because everyone doesn't get saved? If God made it were everyone got it, where would the autonomy be?"

 

You know how many times I've heard this? You are saying the same tired thing every tired xtian says on a loop, endlessly. Do you know how tired I am of hearing the steaming horseshit that comes out of the mouths of xtians? The "sorry you're so angry step away from the edge" was an FU directed at me. Why do you come here?

[TheRedneckProfessor]

 

 

And maybe it's perspective Merry. Sounds like you have never considered God from a warning the people type stance. As in, "hey, if you do this, you die". Oh wait, that's what the story says.

 

Well, answer me a few things, if you would, End3.

 

What was Adam and Eve's understanding of death? What experience or knowledge did they have of it at the time god threatened them with it?

 

What was Adam and Eve's understanding of good and evil before they ate the fruit that gave them knowledge of good and evil? Did they understand that obedience was "good" and eating the fruit "evil"? If so, how did they have that knowledge before eating the fruit?

 

And since god had to invent death as his particular form of punishment -- not as a natural consequence, but as something he deliberately created and imposed as his idea of a fitting punishement -- do you agree that the death of every living thing and all the suffering that goes with it is an appropriate level of punishment for one act of disobedience?

 

I think they had some sense that God was different and knowing. We assume they knew little of good or evil. The devil appears to bring in envy or wanting to Eve.

 

Do I personally think hell is justified. No. Do I know what it means to side with the devil.....I expect so. We sow death, we reap death. Are we accountable to that at some point. I don't know because we are not ultimately all knowing. Maybe there is a significant reason for the consequences of choosing evil.

 

Isn't envy a sin?  How could the devil bring envy in Eve if sin didn't enter their nature until after they ate the fruit?

[TheRedneckProfessor]

 

"I try to marry science and Christianity Bill. No one likes the unions I find....lol. As an example to your statement, "down with that" meant you had a cold possibly but "down with that" now means you understand or ok with an idea. Need I mention "gay" and "queer" or "straight" as examples. I hear the frustration and it is acknowledged. I try not to do those cop out things....I don't like them myself" End3

 

According to christian history science and Xtianity are apparently of a different species and therefor can't marry. Too bad. But showing an example in modern language of

phrases or sayings having developed into different meanings is irrelevant.

Instead,show us that the language used in the pertinent verses in Genesis about god's

telling Adam he shall surely die is an example of the phenomenon you described in modern English. For if you are just guessing that it applies. you're no better off than you were before.

I'm understanding that people here are rigidly holding the story to a 24 hour day and also saying it could have taken millions or billions of years for the earth to get where it's at, yet belittle the story. It doesn't make sense to me bill that if there was so much incredulity regarding the story that there would even be a need to question the story at this point. I don't think it is unfair to allow for our lack of language difference given I have noticed the same in my short stint on earth. Obviously you do. I would expect that would be detrimental to relationship building, but that's your choice....being no better off than you are now as you put it.

 

God saw fit to divinely inspire his word to be written, but failed to ensure it was accurately translated into all the languages forced upon humanity after the tower of babel?  Hmmm.....

[TheRedneckProfessor]

 

 

Why bother with the OP? As I said, I like the types in the story. If no one wants to talk, turn the set off.

 

It is not the case that nobody wants to talk.  Rather we know this stuff and when fundamentalists try this nonsense with us we cut it to shreds.  You know that.  You have been here long enough to know that you have no foot to stand on.  So why play fundamentalist with us?  I know it pisses you off when we disprove your religion so why go down that road?

 

The deal is I still believe. I have no trouble not seeing things as literal but everyone here pretty much insists a literal interpretation and won't do myth. Could the myth be essentially accurate. I think so. I don't know why this is not rational.

 

If the infallible, inerrant word of god begins with a myth, where does it end?

[Guest end3]

We all get angry from time to time. This is what you wrote to MerryG that made me get a little peeved:

 

"And you are mad because everyone doesn't get saved? If God made it were everyone got it, where would the autonomy be?"

 

You know how many times I've heard this? You are saying the same tired thing every tired xtian says on a loop, endlessly. Do you know how tired I am of hearing the steaming horseshit that comes out of the mouths of xtians? The "sorry you're so angry step away from the edge" was an FU directed at me. Why do you come here?

Sorry it triggered you. If you would like to enter into the conversation other that starting with "sick and twisted Christian" then by all means. Again, why can you not understand that Prof asked me to speculate on what God was thinking????? Really???? And then hold me in fucking contempt for my speculation???? Much like you???? Where is your grace ma'am. Grow up.

[Guest end3]

 

 

 

And maybe it's perspective Merry. Sounds like you have never considered God from a warning the people type stance. As in, "hey, if you do this, you die". Oh wait, that's what the story says.

 

Well, answer me a few things, if you would, End3.

 

What was Adam and Eve's understanding of death? What experience or knowledge did they have of it at the time god threatened them with it?

 

What was Adam and Eve's understanding of good and evil before they ate the fruit that gave them knowledge of good and evil? Did they understand that obedience was "good" and eating the fruit "evil"? If so, how did they have that knowledge before eating the fruit?

 

And since god had to invent death as his particular form of punishment -- not as a natural consequence, but as something he deliberately created and imposed as his idea of a fitting punishement -- do you agree that the death of every living thing and all the suffering that goes with it is an appropriate level of punishment for one act of disobedience?

 

I think they had some sense that God was different and knowing. We assume they knew little of good or evil. The devil appears to bring in envy or wanting to Eve.

 

Do I personally think hell is justified. No. Do I know what it means to side with the devil.....I expect so. We sow death, we reap death. Are we accountable to that at some point. I don't know because we are not ultimately all knowing. Maybe there is a significant reason for the consequences of choosing evil.

 

Isn't envy a sin?  How could the devil bring envy in Eve if sin didn't enter their nature until after they ate the fruit?

 

See, that's a fucking thoughtful question after reading the text. Thank you. I'll get back to you.

[Guest end3]

 

 

"I try to marry science and Christianity Bill. No one likes the unions I find....lol. As an example to your statement, "down with that" meant you had a cold possibly but "down with that" now means you understand or ok with an idea. Need I mention "gay" and "queer" or "straight" as examples. I hear the frustration and it is acknowledged. I try not to do those cop out things....I don't like them myself" End3

 

According to christian history science and Xtianity are apparently of a different species and therefor can't marry. Too bad. But showing an example in modern language of

phrases or sayings having developed into different meanings is irrelevant.

Instead,show us that the language used in the pertinent verses in Genesis about god's

telling Adam he shall surely die is an example of the phenomenon you described in modern English. For if you are just guessing that it applies. you're no better off than you were before.

I'm understanding that people here are rigidly holding the story to a 24 hour day and also saying it could have taken millions or billions of years for the earth to get where it's at, yet belittle the story. It doesn't make sense to me bill that if there was so much incredulity regarding the story that there would even be a need to question the story at this point. I don't think it is unfair to allow for our lack of language difference given I have noticed the same in my short stint on earth. Obviously you do. I would expect that would be detrimental to relationship building, but that's your choice....being no better off than you are now as you put it.

 

God saw fit to divinely inspire his word to be written, but failed to ensure it was accurately translated into all the languages forced upon humanity after the tower of babel?  Hmmm.....

 

I think the Word speaks to everyone in their particular time and need. Try again.

[Guest end3]

 

 

 

Why bother with the OP? As I said, I like the types in the story. If no one wants to talk, turn the set off.

 

It is not the case that nobody wants to talk.  Rather we know this stuff and when fundamentalists try this nonsense with us we cut it to shreds.  You know that.  You have been here long enough to know that you have no foot to stand on.  So why play fundamentalist with us?  I know it pisses you off when we disprove your religion so why go down that road?

 

The deal is I still believe. I have no trouble not seeing things as literal but everyone here pretty much insists a literal interpretation and won't do myth. Could the myth be essentially accurate. I think so. I don't know why this is not rational.

 

If the infallible, inerrant word of god begins with a myth, where does it end?

 

Oh gheeze. I can call it a myth or maybe God spoke it into being. As a 21st century person, given some understanding of what we think we know, I go myth first and then literal second. Fucking shoot me if you need.

[Guest end3]

And Mudhoney, please fucking speculate on whether child abusers should spend their lives in hell.

 

Just this one fucking response would be worth hearing from any of you gutless wonders. Should we extend grace to a child rapist? What's adequate punishment. Speak the fuck up!

[Mudhoney]

And Mudhoney, please fucking speculate on whether child abusers should spend their lives in hell.

 

Just this one fucking response would be worth hearing from any of you gutless wonders. Should we extend grace to a child rapist? What's adequate punishment. Speak the fuck up!

 

You are talking and thinking like a xtian End3! There is no cosmic grace! Your telling me to grow up is another FU. You just keep them coming!

 

I never called you sick and twisted. Please reread my post.

 

Your religion teaches that your god sends peaceful men like Ghandi to hell for not believing in him and lets child rapists into heaven for believing in him. This is disgusting.

 

As for child rapists, they need to spend the rest of their lives in prison. There is no afterlife that I know of.

 

Gutless wonders = FU again! Biblegod is okay with child rapists. There are no laws against child molesting or child raping in the bible. He hates the gays, though.

[Guest end3]

 

And Mudhoney, please fucking speculate on whether child abusers should spend their lives in hell.

 

Just this one fucking response would be worth hearing from any of you gutless wonders. Should we extend grace to a child rapist? What's adequate punishment. Speak the fuck up!

 

You are talking and thinking like a xtian End3! There is no cosmic grace! Your telling me to grow up is another FU. You just keep them coming!

 

I never called you sick and twisted. Please reread my post.

 

Your religion teaches that your god sends peaceful men like Ghandi to hell for not believing in him and lets child rapists into heaven for believing in him. This is disgusting.

 

As for child rapists, they need to spend the rest of their lives in prison. There is no afterlife that I know of.

 

Gutless wonders = FU again!

 

Rest of their lives in prison....what is eternal death? Rest of you life in prison? If you take "cosmic" out of it, you just sentenced the guy to eternal hell. OF course you won't see it like that.

 

Here's another FU....wake up.

[Mudhoney]

We are not going to live forever! If there is some kind of afterlife, I'm 100% sure it's not the xtian version.

 

About the child rapists. Spending the rest of their lives in prison gets them away from the rest of society. I wouldn't cry if we put them down like animals, though. I would never conceive of burning a sentient being alive forever. That's sick.

 

You know what else is sick? The xtian god watches these little kids get raped and does nothing to stop it. How is burning the perpetrator forever going to make this right? The child has already been raped.

 

Oh, and I didn't sentence the hypothetical child rapist to eternal hell. That's a dishonest stretch. So maybe you're the liar?

[Guest end3]

We are not going to live forever! If there is some kind of afterlife, I'm 100% sure it's not the xtian version.

 

About the child rapists. Spending the rest of their lives in prison gets them away from the rest of society. I wouldn't cry if we put them down like animals, though. I would never conceive of burning a sentient being alive forever. That's sick.

 

You know what else is sick? The xtian god watches these little kids get raped and does nothing to stop it. How is burning the perpetrator forever going to make this right? The child has already been raped.

 

Oh, and I didn't sentence the hypothetical child rapist to eternal hell. That's a dishonest stretch. So maybe you're the liar?

Are your braindead? IF there is no eternal, then prison is "eternal". What is "burning" you ignorant person? Missing your children, missing your life, missing on and on. Jesus, child.

 

And to watching....if the story is true, then God DID something about it.....baaammmm, you're dead for whatever. Who are you for knowing what is ultimately right vs wrong. MUDONEY is GOD people!!! Is society God MH? Have you asked and answered these questions?

 

Am I a liar or have you never been to prison....

 

People like you really fucking piss me off....grow up or stfu.

[WarriorPoet]

And Mudhoney, please fucking speculate on whether child abusers should spend their lives in hell.

 

Just this one fucking response would be worth hearing from any of you gutless wonders. Should we extend grace to a child rapist? What's adequate punishment. Speak the fuck up!

I'll tell you what is not adequate punishment.  Eternal torture for a single lifetime of evil.  There is no one who has ever lived that deserves eternal punishment of the type that the church preaches, not even Stalin or Hitler.

 

Child abusers spending their lives in hell, whatever you think hell is, I wouldn't think is overly excessive.  Making them spend untold trillions of years suffering that kind of torture is absolutely amoral.  There comes a point where the punishment exceeds the crime, and the christian concept of hell does this in spades.

[Mudhoney]

Biblegod is the god and patron saint of the pedophile and child rapist. His priests molest and rape children for decades and get away with it. The church of Biblegod covers it up and blames the victim.

[Mudhoney]

 

We are not going to live forever! If there is some kind of afterlife, I'm 100% sure it's not the xtian version.

 

About the child rapists. Spending the rest of their lives in prison gets them away from the rest of society. I wouldn't cry if we put them down like animals, though. I would never conceive of burning a sentient being alive forever. That's sick.

 

You know what else is sick? The xtian god watches these little kids get raped and does nothing to stop it. How is burning the perpetrator forever going to make this right? The child has already been raped.

 

Oh, and I didn't sentence the hypothetical child rapist to eternal hell. That's a dishonest stretch. So maybe you're the liar?

Are your braindead? IF there is no eternal, then prison is "eternal". What is "burning" you ignorant person? Missing your children, missing your life, missing on and on. Jesus, child.

 

And to watching....if the story is true, then God DID something about it.....baaammmm, you're dead for whatever. Who are you for knowing what is ultimately right vs wrong. MUDONEY is GOD people!!! Is society God MH? Have you asked and answered these questions?

 

Am I a liar or have you never been to prison....

 

People like you really fucking piss me off....grow up or stfu.

 

 

Well, who needs to calm down now? What are you talking about? You sound like you might be foaming at the mouth.

[Guest end3]

 

 

We are not going to live forever! If there is some kind of afterlife, I'm 100% sure it's not the xtian version.

 

About the child rapists. Spending the rest of their lives in prison gets them away from the rest of society. I wouldn't cry if we put them down like animals, though. I would never conceive of burning a sentient being alive forever. That's sick.

 

You know what else is sick? The xtian god watches these little kids get raped and does nothing to stop it. How is burning the perpetrator forever going to make this right? The child has already been raped.

 

Oh, and I didn't sentence the hypothetical child rapist to eternal hell. That's a dishonest stretch. So maybe you're the liar?

Are your braindead? IF there is no eternal, then prison is "eternal". What is "burning" you ignorant person? Missing your children, missing your life, missing on and on. Jesus, child.

 

And to watching....if the story is true, then God DID something about it.....baaammmm, you're dead for whatever. Who are you for knowing what is ultimately right vs wrong. MUDONEY is GOD people!!! Is society God MH? Have you asked and answered these questions?

 

Am I a liar or have you never been to prison....

 

People like you really fucking piss me off....grow up or stfu.

 

 

Well, who needs to calm down now? What are you talking about? You sound like you might be foaming at the mouth.

 

You'll get your own reward....just keep on the path your on.

[Guest end3]

 

And Mudhoney, please fucking speculate on whether child abusers should spend their lives in hell.

 

Just this one fucking response would be worth hearing from any of you gutless wonders. Should we extend grace to a child rapist? What's adequate punishment. Speak the fuck up!

I'll tell you what is not adequate punishment.  Eternal torture for a single lifetime of evil.  There is no one who has ever lived that deserves eternal punishment of the type that the church preaches, not even Stalin or Hitler.

 

Child abusers spending their lives in hell, whatever you think hell is, I wouldn't think is overly excessive.  Making them spend untold trillions of years suffering that kind of torture is absolutely amoral.  There comes a point where the punishment exceeds the crime, and the christian concept of hell does this in spades.

 

No, dumb ass, pick one definition or the other. If you believe in no afterlife and sentence the rest of living days in prison, then that is essentially eternal. God how can you people be so fucking dumb.

[Mudhoney]

Jesus has delayed the second coming because he’s too busy watching child pornography here on Earth.

[Mudhoney]

 

 

You'll get your own reward....just keep on the path your on.

 

 

Oh, touché, End3, touché.

[WarriorPoet]

 

 

And Mudhoney, please fucking speculate on whether child abusers should spend their lives in hell.

 

Just this one fucking response would be worth hearing from any of you gutless wonders. Should we extend grace to a child rapist? What's adequate punishment. Speak the fuck up!

I'll tell you what is not adequate punishment.  Eternal torture for a single lifetime of evil.  There is no one who has ever lived that deserves eternal punishment of the type that the church preaches, not even Stalin or Hitler.

 

Child abusers spending their lives in hell, whatever you think hell is, I wouldn't think is overly excessive.  Making them spend untold trillions of years suffering that kind of torture is absolutely amoral.  There comes a point where the punishment exceeds the crime, and the christian concept of hell does this in spades.

 

No, dumb ass, pick one definition or the other. If you believe in no afterlife and sentence the rest of living days in prison, then that is essentially eternal. God how can you people be so fucking dumb.

 

No it is not.  A life sentence eventually ends.  Yes, it ends with death, which is not favorable to the person so sentenced, but it does not last forever.  The death of the convict is actually a release from their punishment. 

 

By the way, who are you and what have you done with end3?  He is a person that nearly all of us disagree with on many fundamental levels, but he is also someone with whom we have had many enjoyable conversations/debates.  I don't know what kind of monster this is that is posting using his account.