God Is A Liar

[RipVanWinkle]

"So Bill, what good would it do for God to just zap a person and say you are healed, fixed, whatever". 

• 
•  
• 0

"And some folks are not going to be rehabilitated. "   End3

 

You are making an assumption that there are folks who cannot be rehabilitated by god. But my argument is predicated on the assumption that the bible god is real. I'm arguing that if your belief is correct, that would mean god is omnipotent and can do anything he wants. Therefore, god could rehabilitate anyone. He's all powerful. So god has multiple choices. He could "zap" him, as you say and make him free of his deviancy. 

Or he could prevent him from being born, since he knows what the man would become. Or he could go back in time and send the angel Gabriel down to prevent the rape. to begin with. 

 

If god is incapable of doing any of those things then he is not omnipotent and the bible is wrong. Jesus said, "With god, anything is possible." If you somehow claim that notwithstandiny the bible he is not omnipotent, then you don't know what he can or cannot do. So,, you don't know if the rapist can or a cannot be rehabilitated. 

When you believe in an omnipotent god, he literally has control of everything. That's why what happens in this world  is, in the last analysis, on the shoulders of such a god, not on man's shoulders, according to the 

bible. bill

[♦ ficino ♦]

Here are two passages, one where God is portrayed as lying, the second, Jesus.

 

1. Jeremiah 20:7 "O LORD, thou hast deceived me, and I was deceived: thou art stronger than I, and hast prevailed: I am in derision daily, every one mocketh me." There is no later verse where this statement is retracted.

 

2. John 7:8-9, where Jesus tells his disciples, "Go up to the feast yourselves; I do not go up to this feast because My time has not yet fully come. Having said these things to them, He stayed in Galilee." But in the very next verse we read "But when His brothers had gone up to the feast, then He Himself also went up, not publicly, but as if in secret." So Jesus lied to his disciples. It's special pleading to say that his "time came" within the short interval after his declaration and after his brothers departed for the feast.

 

Then there are unfulfilled prophecies, three of which I posted more than once to SteveBennett. One is Jeremiah's prophecy that Nebuchadnezzar would completely devastate Egypt. Never happened. Maybe stuff like that is why Jeremiah said God deceived him. They shoulda stoned the dude, acc. to the Torah.

[mymistake]

 

So who planted the tree?

 

The enemy!

 

 

 

And since the Bible says that God planted the tree then God must be the enemy!    

 

 

 

This contradiction stuff is fun and easy.  I could do it all day.

 

Da Buy Bull Sez:

God is love.

Love is not jealous.

God is jealous!

 

Or even better:

Luke 14:26

1 John 3:15

Rev 21:8

 

If you are a disciple of Jesus then you will go to hell.

[TheRedneckProfessor]

 

 

 

 

⁸ The Lord God planted a garden toward the east, in Eden; and there He placed the man whom He had formed. ⁹ Out of the ground the Lord God caused to grow every tree that is pleasing to the sight and good for food; the tree of life also in the midst of the garden, and the tree of the knowledge of good and evil.

 

 

This verse makes it pretty clear that "Hasatan" did not plant the tree of knowledge in the garden; the lord god did.

 

Does that make Funguyrye mistaken, a liar or something else?  Let's wait and see what he does with this additional fictional fact from the fiction under discussion.  Of course, there is a high likelihood he will ignore this completely, or attempt to spin it into something else.  That would demonstrate disingenuousness.

 

I suspect he will claim that Hasatan planted the tree of knowledge and then god planted the garden including the tree of life around the tree of knowledge.  He'll justify this claim by saying that everything god planted was "pleasing to the sight and good for food" and that god only planted trees that were good for people.

 

What this explanation overlooks is:

1).  The text states that when Eve looked upon the fruit of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil she found it was "pleasing to the sight and good for food."

2).  If god planted the garden around the tree he knew would be the downfall of humanity, it doesn't exculpate him; it inculpates him.  Morally, there is no difference between god actually planting the tree of knowledge and god planting the garden around the tree.  The foreseeable result would have still been the same.

 

Or, he will just ignore it.

 

Ever read the parable of the sower?

 

To answer we have to first read the parable of the wheat and tares...

 

Matthew 13 24 Another parable put he forth unto them, saying, The kingdom of heaven is likened unto a man which sowed good seed in his field:

 

What is the good seed? The Word of God! What is the produce of Good seed? The children of God.

 

25 But while men slept, his enemy came and sowed tares among the wheat, and went his way.

 

What is a tare?

 

darnel, tare, bearded darnel, cheat, Lolium temulentum -- (weedy annual grass often occurs in grainfields and other cultivated land; seeds sometimes considered poisonous)

 

tare is a type of "disfigured" wheat. One can not tell the difference between a tare and a stalk of wheat when they come up out of the ground. They look similar. The difference is wheat grows and produces good "fruit"(wheat), while the tare produces no fruit. The wheat from the weight of the fruit, bows down. The tare stands up straight...

 

Now we see the results the seeds planted by the advesary of the one who planted the good seed

 

 

26 But when the blade was sprung up, and brought forth fruit, then appeared the tares also.

 

 

 

The concept of fruit.

 

God said in Genesis 3,

 

11 And God said, Let the earth bring forth grass, the herb yielding seed, and the fruit tree yielding fruit after his kind, whose seed is in itself, upon the earth: and it was so.

 

12 And the earth brought forth grass, and herb yielding seed after his kind, and the tree yielding fruit, whose seed was in itself, after his kind: and God saw that it was good.

 

13 And the evening and the morning were the third day.

 

 

Seed always produces after its own kind. How many times have you opened and apple and found a peach seed? The same is true with the Word of God. The fruit produced by the sowing of the seed of God's Word, will produce the same fruit, as they are the same kind.

 

27 So the servants of the householder came and said unto him, Sir, didst not thou sow good seed in thy field? from whence then hath it tares?

 

28 He said unto them, An enemy hath done this. The servants said unto him, Wilt thou then that we go and gather them up?

 

29 But he said, Nay; lest while ye gather up the tares, ye root up also the wheat with them.

 

30 Let both grow together until the harvest: and in the time of harvest I will say to the reapers, Gather ye together first the tares, and bind them in bundles to burn them: but gather the wheat into my barn.

 

So it will be when the angels reap in the last days. They will easily be able to tell the wheat and the tares. The tares will be standing proud, while the wheat will be bowing down before the Lord. The wheat will be harvested, the tares thrown in the fire.

 

This also shows why the Lord has has not yet come. The fruit of the harvest of the earth is not yet complete. Plucking it now would destroy both the wheat and tares as when they herbs are young plucking up one would cause the other to pull up.

 

In Revelation the final harvest of souls comes to pass,

 

15 And another angel came out of the temple, crying with a loud voice to him that sat on the cloud, Thrust in thy sickle, and reap: for the time is come for thee to reap; for the harvest of the earth is ripe.

 

16 And he that sat on the cloud thrust in his sickle on the earth; and the earth was reaped.

 

17 And another angel came out of the temple which is in heaven, he also having a sharp sickle.

 

18 And another angel came out from the altar, which had power over fire; and cried with a loud cry to him that had the sharp sickle, saying, Thrust in thy sharp sickle, and gather the clusters of the vine of the earth; for her grapes are fully ripe.

 

19 And the angel thrust in his sickle into the earth, and gathered the vine of the earth, and cast it into the great winepress of the wrath of God.

</font>

 

17 And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.

 

But....this is the interesting point,

 

25 But while men slept, his enemy came and sowed tares among the wheat, and went his way.

 

While men slept,

 

 9 And out of the ground made the LORD God to grow every tree that is pleasant to the sight, and good for food; the tree of life also in the midst of the garden, and the tree of knowledge of good and evil.

 

That seems like an contradiction. God created all the plants that are pleasant to the sight and good for food, then tells Adam not to eat from the tree of knowledge a tree not good for food.

 

So who planted the tree?

 

The enemy!

 

25 But while men slept, his enemy came and sowed tares among the wheat, and went his way.

 

I believe this also shows the point in which satan fell. (I don't believe this thought)

 

While God created the garden and formed man, satan the advesary sowed the tares and went his way.

 

16 And the LORD God commanded the man, saying, Of every tree of the garden thou mayest freely eat:

 

17 But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.

 

So God created the trees and plants pleasant to the eyes and good for food. Logically it would seem he did not create the tree that was not good to eat. The enemy did, and God warned Adam not to partake of the enemies seed.

 

16 And the LORD God commanded the man, saying, Of every tree of the garden thou mayest freely eat:

 

17 But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.

 

 

We see in Daniel 2 another interesting coorelation with the enemies seed.

 

 31 Thou, O king, sawest, and behold a great image. This great image, whose brightness was excellent, stood before thee; and the form thereof was terrible.

 

32 This image's head was of fine gold, his breast and his arms of silver, his belly and his thighs of brass,

 

33 His legs of iron, his feet part of iron and part of clay.

 

34 Thou sawest till that a stone was cut out without hands, which smote the image upon his feet that were of iron and clay, and brake them to pieces.

 

35 Then was the iron, the clay, the brass, the silver, and the gold, broken to pieces together, and became like the chaff of the summer threshingfloors; and the wind carried them away, that no place was found for them: and the stone that smote the image became a great mountain, and filled the whole earth.

 

 

 

This infamous prophecy dictates the kingdomes of the world through the ages. But one in particular stands out...

 

 33 His legs of iron, his feet part of iron and part of clay.

 

 

This final kingdome, the revised Roman empire, is the seed of the enemy!

 

Here is the prophecy of Christ in Genesis:

 

15 And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel.

 

 

What is on the foot aside from the toes? The heel!

 

I am now conviced the enemy truely does believe he can defeat God. This final kingdom will be his attempt to reverse this prophecy. God's seed, His Son, will crush the enemies head however, as verse 35 of Daniel 2 shows.

 

http://www.abcbodybuilding.com/forums/showthread.php?t=62125

 

Let me get this straight.  The devil planted the tree.  God knew the devil planted the tree.  God proceeded with his creation anyway knowing that Adam and Eve would eat of the tree.  But rather than warn them then, god waited until he could be born of a virgin, grow up, start a ministry, and tell a parable, before providing an explanation for what he had done?

 

And people were dying and going to hell all this time?

 

Your god is a tyrannical despot!

[Lucynia]

Yes, but who created the devil? God shouldn't make malevolent beings more powerful than himself.

 

Or he should have just kicked over that tree.

 

Any way you word, re word, misinterpret or spin it, if god really created the world ( including the devil) then he really messed up. So is god evil or incompetent?

[TheRedneckProfessor]

Fungi, you can twist scripture all you want to try to make god out to be innocent; but the fact remains that the text of genesis makes it clear that god planted the garden and every tree that was in the garden.  god created evil.  god created hell.  god created satan.  And because god was dishonest, never mentioned Original Sin, never mentioned eternal conscious torment, Adam and Eve were set up from the very beginning to fail.

 

You serve a diabolical, maniacal, demonic, evil, despotic, neurotic, egocentric, tyrant.  As for me and my house, we will NOT serve the lord.

[Guest end3]

Fungi, you can twist scripture all you want to try to make god out to be innocent; but the fact remains that the text of genesis makes it clear that god planted the garden and every tree that was in the garden.  god created evil.  god created hell.  god created satan.  And because god was dishonest, never mentioned Original Sin, never mentioned eternal conscious torment, Adam and Eve were set up from the very beginning to fail.

 

You serve a diabolical, maniacal, demonic, evil, despotic, neurotic, egocentric, tyrant.  As for me and my house, we will NOT serve the lord.

Isn't this the Satan story really, that God created autonomy in Satan and then it backfired? Again, my speculation is how would he create an "independent" entity to commune with. Sort of like allowing humanity to evolve into righteousness.

[MerryG]

... God created autonomy in Satan and then it backfired?

 

So god neither perfect nor all-knowing? He couldn't create a being who'd continue to be friendly to him and he didn't even know that?

[florduh]

Again, my speculation is how would he create an "independent" entity to commune with.

 

That point has always bothered me. I don't get why the god described in the Bible needs to "commune" with anything. After all, he is the all-powerful creator of everything, knows the future, and is perfect in every way. Whom would this guy go drinking with? Why would he need constant affirmation?

[thereisnoperfect]

 

Again, my speculation is how would he create an "independent" entity to commune with.

 

That point has always bothered me. I don't get why the god described in the Bible needs to "commune" with anything. After all, he is the all-powerful creator of everything, knows the future, and is perfect in every way. Whom would this guy go drinking with? Why would he need constant affirmation?

 

And don't a lot of theologians say that the Trinity is supposed to mean that god is internally full of relationship? So god already has his trinitiness to go drinking with!

 

And apparently he'd had a few too many when he thought to create the devil. "Heh--hey, guys, let's make a powerful creature to be an adversary to tempt and corrupt those people we were thinking of making in our image. (hic) No way that can go wrong. It'll be cooooooool!"

[Pantophobia]

 

 

....an inability within a relationship is essentially sinful in my mind.

 

That's not clear. Would you please explain? An inability to do what within a relationship? And what relationship are you talking about?

 

Let me give you an example. If you and I were in a relationship, and I were striving to be as sin free as possible, then I would make those choices for you that would yield love and life. I am not capable of perfectly discerning what would be best decisions to yield love and life for you. The misapplication of my actions towards you I consider sin.

 

 

And here, in a nutshell, is how I became an atheist as soon as I realized my "relationship" with God/Jesus was EXACTLY LIKE the abusive and manipulative earthly relationships that caused me nothing but harm and gave me none of the promised rewards.

 

Now, off to read the rest of this mind-blowing example of mental gymnastics…. 

[pratt]

 

 

Again, my speculation is how would he create an "independent" entity to commune with.

 

That point has always bothered me. I don't get why the god described in the Bible needs to "commune" with anything. After all, he is the all-powerful creator of everything, knows the future, and is perfect in every way. Whom would this guy go drinking with? Why would he need constant affirmation?

And don't a lot of theologians say that the Trinity is supposed to mean that god is internally full of relationship? So god already has his trinitiness to go drinking with!

 

And apparently he'd had a few too many when he thought to create the devil. "Heh--hey, guys, let's make a powerful creature to be an adversary to tempt and corrupt those people we were thinking of making in our image. (hic) No way that can go wrong. It'll be cooooooool!"

would you wanna drink with your father in a bar n get high?

do you wanna drink with jesus who might spike your drink when you had enough n change water into wine instead?

or drink with someone with speak gibberish?

 

they are bad company, so they need adam n eve

[Guest end3]

 

... God created autonomy in Satan and then it backfired?

 

So god neither perfect nor all-knowing? He couldn't create a being who'd continue to be friendly to him and he didn't even know that?

 

Where is the autonomy if there is no choice.

[Guest end3]

 

 

Again, my speculation is how would he create an "independent" entity to commune with.

That point has always bothered me. I don't get why the god described in the Bible needs to "commune" with anything. After all, he is the all-powerful creator of everything, knows the future, and is perfect in every way. Whom would this guy go drinking with? Why would he need constant affirmation?

 

And don't a lot of theologians say that the Trinity is supposed to mean that god is internally full of relationship? So god already has his trinitiness to go drinking with!

 

And apparently he'd had a few too many when he thought to create the devil. "Heh--hey, guys, let's make a powerful creature to be an adversary to tempt and corrupt those people we were thinking of making in our image. (hic) No way that can go wrong. It'll be cooooooool!"

 

You've gone drinking before, right?

[MerryG]

 

 

... God created autonomy in Satan and then it backfired?

 

So god neither perfect nor all-knowing? He couldn't create a being who'd continue to be friendly to him and he didn't even know that?

 

Where is the autonomy if there is no choice.

 

 

That wasn't my point, End3. My point is that the all-powerful, all-knowing god sure seems to get a lot of surprises.

[Guest end3]

 

 

 

... God created autonomy in Satan and then it backfired?

 

So god neither perfect nor all-knowing? He couldn't create a being who'd continue to be friendly to him and he didn't even know that?

 

Where is the autonomy if there is no choice.

 

 

That wasn't my point, End3. My point is that the all-powerful, all-knowing god sure seems to get a lot of surprises.

 

Can we say that knowing there was a Christ plan?

[MerryG]

 

 

 

 

... God created autonomy in Satan and then it backfired?

 

So god neither perfect nor all-knowing? He couldn't create a being who'd continue to be friendly to him and he didn't even know that?

 

Where is the autonomy if there is no choice.

 

 

That wasn't my point, End3. My point is that the all-powerful, all-knowing god sure seems to get a lot of surprises.

 

Can we say that knowing there was a Christ plan?

 

 

Do we know there was "a Christ plan"? I don't. On the contrary, it seems as if god only stumbled onto the Christ idea after a great deal of fumbling and multiple personal disappoinments followed by genocides.

 

Besides, any "plan" that involves inflicting so much suffering and death -- not to mention endless suffering after death! -- seems more worthy of a inept middle manager who commits sadistic serial killings in his spare time than of an all-knowing, all-powerful, unchanging, and all-merciful god.

[TheRedneckProfessor]

 Again, my speculation is how would he create an "independent" entity to commune with.

 

Isn't god supposed to be complete within himself?  Why would he need to commune with anybody?

[Guest end3]

Whether it be Heaven on Earth or hell on Earth, or Heaven in Heaven or Heaven again on Earth, humanity does not appear to subscribe...by God's information or disinformation.....we still want it our way. Did I miss a permutation?

 

People here are saying they can't have a relationship with this God....fair enough. I guess unfortunately for those, He is the one capable of providing life (per the story mind you). So I'm guessing we would have to weigh our options of communal freedom, selfish freedom, and what ever other freedoms we can imagine.

 

thoughts?

[Guest end3]

 

Again, my speculation is how would he create an "independent" entity to commune with.

Isn't god supposed to be complete within himself?  Why would he need to commune with anybody?

 

Don't remember reading anything in the Book to that nature.....will be happy to acknowledge if it's there.

[TheRedneckProfessor]

Whether it be Heaven on Earth or hell on Earth, or Heaven in Heaven or Heaven again on Earth, humanity does not appear to subscribe...by God's information or disinformation.....we still want it our way. Did I miss a permutation?

 

People here are saying they can't have a relationship with this God....fair enough. I guess unfortunately for those, He is the one capable of providing life (per the story mind you). So I'm guessing we would have to weigh our options of communal freedom, selfish freedom, and what ever other freedoms we can imagine.

 

thoughts?

Freedom from superstitions and myths is the choice I have made. 

 

I don't find a god capable of providing life in the story, not against the backdrop of the rest of the old testament.  The story says he created life, but then immediately cursed it with death for not living up to his expectations.  Expectations, mind you, that were completely unfair and unrealistic, based on the misinformation and lack of information given to Adam and Eve.  However, it seems to me that creating life and then cursing it is profoundly different than providing life.

 

Lastly, based on the abysmal failure of most christians to describe a personal relationship with god (as we all witnessed in the thread of that same name), I would argue that even believers can't have a relationship with him.  Unfortunately for those, too.

[RipVanWinkle]

"People here are saying they can't have a relationship with this God....fair enough. I guess unfortunately for those, He is the one capable of providing life (per the story mind you). So I'm guessing we would have to weigh our options of communal freedom, selfish freedom, and what ever other freedoms we can imagine." end3

 

If god is the one providing life he is the universe's greatest underachiever.  bill

[NeverAgainV]

 

Again, my speculation is how would he create an "independent" entity to commune with.

 

That point has always bothered me. I don't get why the god described in the Bible needs to "commune" with anything. After all, he is the all-powerful creator of everything, knows the future, and is perfect in every way. Whom would this guy go drinking with? Why would he need constant affirmation?

 

 

Yes Florduh, that bothered me too! If someone is perfect and content w/ themselves, why the constant praise, adoration, worship????

You would think God would be satisfied with God. Bible god seems infantile.

 

[thereisnoperfect]

 

 

Again, my speculation is how would he create an "independent" entity to commune with.

 

That point has always bothered me. I don't get why the god described in the Bible needs to "commune" with anything. After all, he is the all-powerful creator of everything, knows the future, and is perfect in every way. Whom would this guy go drinking with? Why would he need constant affirmation?

 

 

Yes Florduh, that bothered me too! If someone is perfect and content w/ themselves, why the constant praise, adoration, worship????

You would think God would be satisfied with God. Bible god seems infantile.

 

 

...almost as though he was a character invented by people whose thinking hadn't become very sophisticated yet.

[duderonomy]

 

 

 

Again, my speculation is how would he create an "independent" entity to commune with.

 

That point has always bothered me. I don't get why the god described in the Bible needs to "commune" with anything. After all, he is the all-powerful creator of everything, knows the future, and is perfect in every way. Whom would this guy go drinking with? Why would he need constant affirmation?

 

 

Yes Florduh, that bothered me too! If someone is perfect and content w/ themselves, why the constant praise, adoration, worship????

You would think God would be satisfied with God. Bible god seems infantile.

 

 

...almost as though he was a character invented by people whose thinking hadn't become very sophisticated yet.

 

 

Am I in that weird part of YouTube again?  I hate when this happens.