Thackerie Posted August 15, 2014 Share Posted August 15, 2014 * (The only christian who ever treated me in a bad way on the Internet is End, but that was decades after I became an atheist, so his nastiness didn't affect me, and he's easy to ignore.) T, I have witnessed you being nasty to NUMEROUS individuals on this site....but it's justified I'm sure. At least I never made fun of anyone's health condition. Only a low-life would do that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1AcceptingAThiest1 Posted August 15, 2014 Share Posted August 15, 2014 i dont think we should focus on who's insults are the highest on a hiearchy scale, we should focus on whos been the most loving and without judgement Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mymistake Posted August 15, 2014 Share Posted August 15, 2014 Directionless is right IMO. The mature and RATIONAL response to these type conversations would be one of Grace simple because we have no standard to follow. You practicing selective Grace is an immature response because LOGICALLY Grace follows. What the hell are you talking about? First of all it is grace because we are not talking about a person. Secondly grace doesn't logically follow. You are babbling. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LongWayAround Posted August 15, 2014 Author Share Posted August 15, 2014 yall getting off topic. lol Longway i glad you found solice in your decision i do know people are not perfect and im sure you had more than one bad encounter with christians that cemented your conversion. Im sorry you went thru what you did, but i just wanted to say that there are christians out there that are the opposite of what you have seen so far. Nontheless its good you have a support system here. When i was Atheist I could find support online but not in a real personal way like i wanted someone to meet up with face to face and call talk on the phone, but with stranges people wasnt as open to that idea because they didnt know me, People wasnt willing to do that, I felt i didnt have much support in real life enviorment when before christianty. With christianity Strangers would let me call them without fear of any hidden motives. But im sure people here would let you call them if needed or meet face to face, but you may not need that, online interaction could suffice for you, that was something i personally needed and you may be stronger and just need encouragement online. Good luck in all you do I can't speak for Longway, but I can assure you that my rejecting christianity had nothing at all to do with how I was treated by christians. The christians I know in real life* are, in general, nice people. I deconverted because my research led me to conclude that the bible and the religion are entirely man-made, and because I haven't seen any evidence to lead me to believe in a god. * (The only christian who ever treated me in a bad way on the Internet is End, but that was decades after I became an atheist, so his nastiness didn't affect me, and he's easy to ignore.) Like Thackerie, my deconversion had nothing to do with christians and everything to do with whether it was logical to conclude, based on the evidence, that the bible is the word of god. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1AcceptingAThiest1 Posted August 15, 2014 Share Posted August 15, 2014 I see the clarification Thanks, Yes i know I know alot of atheists who change because of that very reason, I was simply saying as a response to what you called Ironhorse's "encouragment" to say that it assisted in your deconversion but I didnt mean it was the entire reason. I dont know Ironorse so i cant speak for or against him, but in general i know christians have hurt others, i cant say how many Bad Christians there are but i can say that their behavior is recognized by the non christian world. Longway I hope to see you more in posts I think you wil see we are not all the same Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roz Posted August 15, 2014 Share Posted August 15, 2014 LWA, you'll see that even though these christians posting here are trying to distance themselves from being "that christian" they'll all ultimately arrive at that same spot of dishonesty. 1A, Gus, End, Thumby, etc. all arrive at "it must be this way or that way, because my god can't possibly be the way the bible describes him!" They're dishonest because the religion is at its core dishonest. They all might be decent people but their religion influences them to be liars. In particular, End3 posted something in the scrolling comments section about how some group is beheading people, killing children. When he was faced with how the bible -his own holy book- told of his own god ordering the same kinds of massacres, he said "well they might be genetically predisposed to killing the Israelites" so they had to die. It's dishonest and disgusting. I'm not interested in niceties and being polite, I've been in church where conversation's full of that. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1AcceptingAThiest1 Posted August 15, 2014 Share Posted August 15, 2014 calling someone dishonesty is putting conjecture in place of fact, opinions are nice but they are not always accurate they are based upon personal perception and presuppositions and not always reality, they can be right but they can also be dead wrong Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roz Posted August 15, 2014 Share Posted August 15, 2014 1A, in your previous thread, you were one of the christians who admitted that you don't know why your god ordered believers like you to murder children. But you serve him anyways because it makes you feel good. You don't research why your god ordered humans like you to murder kids, you're happy with your ignorance of the subject. But if someone where to ask you "why do you believe?" you'll readily list off reasons why because those are the feel-good lines of christianity. You are not as dishonest as End, Gus, or IH when they put apologetics that lie or misrepresent those passages, but your "I don't know" answer still says that you'll serve a slaver/rapist/murderer god because he made you feel good. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1AcceptingAThiest1 Posted August 15, 2014 Share Posted August 15, 2014 well thats not dishonest, i would say it is uninformed. Is it fair to say for the thigns you dont know about in science you are simple uninformed and not dishoenst because you still beleive in science when it cant fill in the gaps? science views some gaps as unknowable, so it would never be dishonest it would be honest because you simply dont know but it doesnt stop you from believing Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roz Posted August 15, 2014 Share Posted August 15, 2014 The dishonesty would be in you telling people "oh christianity's wonderful, my god is an awesome god" while saying "I don't know why my god ordered the killing of infants and small children" and then not bothering with it any further. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bornagainathiest Posted August 15, 2014 Share Posted August 15, 2014 Inanely stupid conversation.... I've seen you take part in far more asinine conversations here, End. You don't like this thread because it highlights how the christians on this site are not doing what you all think you are doing here. In fact the christian presence here does exactly the opposite of what you guys hope for. Directionless is right IMO. The mature and RATIONAL response to these type conversations would be one of Grace simple because we have no standard to follow. You practicing selective Grace is an immature response because LOGICALLY Grace follows. But hey, if your into death, your headed in the right direction. I don't expect you to get it Marty. Grace (God's Riches At Christ's Expense) is a Christian meme. If you contend that grace is something we should aspire to on this site, then you need to do two things. 1. Make and then prove your case. 2. Persuade those who run this site that this forum should be run along grace-filled lines in the future. Until you do this, the status quo remains. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1AcceptingAThiest1 Posted August 15, 2014 Share Posted August 15, 2014 thats the same as saying Science is the throne of truth but then when science doesnt know WHY something happens you say i dont knwo...That is not Dishonest is it? if it is not then what do you call that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roz Posted August 15, 2014 Share Posted August 15, 2014 Because science is a method for understanding the natural world, nothing more. It is not viewed as a 'god' or any 'divine being' that supposedly cares for people like your god. You, by being a christian, tell others that your god is omnipotent, omniscient, omnibenevolent. You can do all things through your god that strengthens you. Furthermore you claim that he loves us all. John 3:16 is a verse you take at face value and accept as truth. But when confronted by 1Sam 15, you just duck and say "I dunno" and brush the order for killing children off. This is more in comparison to a muslim. He believes in Allah (your exact same god) and the prophet Mohammed. Mohammed married and raped a 9 year old girl. That's disgusting. When you hear about muslim apologists trying to spin that off and still claim that "Allah loves us all and Islam is a religion of peace" you don't buy that one bit. If you can only see that your religion makes you behave likewise, that'll be a huge step forward in your part. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bornagainathiest Posted August 15, 2014 Share Posted August 15, 2014 thats the same as saying Science is the throne of truth but then when science doesnt know WHY something happens you say i dont knwo...That is not Dishonest is it? if it is not then what do you call that? Science is not a source of absolute truth. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Science Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1AcceptingAThiest1 Posted August 15, 2014 Share Posted August 15, 2014 you are conflating dishonest with "i dont know" and putting the dishonest part into "i dont know" scenarios.. If I personally dont know doesnt mean there is an answer. Not absolute truth but What do you call it when Science says to be the most reliable means to truth but there a many times its doesnt haev a clue What somethng is or why something happened. The point is you dont stop believing in science just because you dont know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mymistake Posted August 15, 2014 Share Posted August 15, 2014 thats the same as saying Science is the throne of truth but then when science doesnt know WHY something happens you say i dont knwo...That is not Dishonest is it? if it is not then what do you call that? Uh no. Science is the best tool humans have for finding truth. That doesn't mean science knows all the answers right now. In fact science uncovers more questions than it answers. So many of the questions science can't (yet) answer are questions science asked. However there are other questions that are outside the reach of science. There is nothing dishonest about admitting that we don't know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roz Posted August 15, 2014 Share Posted August 15, 2014 you are conflating dishonest with "i dont know" and putting the dishonest part into "i dont know" scenarios.. If I personally dont know doesnt mean there is an answer. Not absolute truth but What do you call it when Science says to be the most reliable means to truth but there a many times its doesnt haev a clue What somethng is or why something happened. The point is you dont stop believing in science just because you dont know. 1. Do you claim that your god loves all of humanity? 2. Do you say "I don't know" when your god specifically ordered the killing of children, the raping of women, the lifetime slavery of non-hebrews? This is the contradiction and dishonesty that you and every other christian here displays. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
directionless Posted August 15, 2014 Share Posted August 15, 2014 The dishonesty would be in you telling people "oh christianity's wonderful, my god is an awesome god" while saying "I don't know why my god ordered the killing of infants and small children" and then not bothering with it any further. I agree it would be dishonest and intellectually lazy to show no concern for the bad character traits the Bible ascribes to God, but many Christians are comfortable saying that parts of the Bible are myths, ancient propaganda, misunderstandings of God's guidance, etc. This is why discussions of the Bible don't seem as important to me as evaluation of claimed experiences of God, paranormal, etc. and whether these experiences violate our understanding of physics. Another approach that seems superior to attacking the Bible is to imagine the implications of a God of some kind existing and then looking for contradictions in the world we observer. (An example is the problem of evil.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roz Posted August 15, 2014 Share Posted August 15, 2014 The dishonesty would be in you telling people "oh christianity's wonderful, my god is an awesome god" while saying "I don't know why my god ordered the killing of infants and small children" and then not bothering with it any further. I agree it would be dishonest and intellectually lazy to show no concern for the bad character traits the Bible ascribes to God, but many Christians are comfortable saying that parts of the Bible are myths, ancient propaganda, misunderstandings of God's guidance, etc. This is why discussions of the Bible don't seem as important to me as evaluation of claimed experiences of God, paranormal, etc. and whether these experiences violate our understanding of physics. Another approach that seems superior to attacking the Bible is to imagine the implications of a God of some kind existing and then looking for contradictions in the world we observer. (An example is the problem of evil.) DL, this is an ex-christian forum, and the christians come here to try and share their testimonies. Personal testimonies mean nothing to me. If a former concentration camp officer came to me to extol about the good values of Nazism and how it made him a better, more organized man... I don't give a rat's ass if Nazism made him a nice man, I would care far more about what he did while he was manning the camp. Yes, this is comparing the killing of women and children with what the Nazis did. Because it reaches the same level of atrocious behavior that the Nazis pulled. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super Moderator TheRedneckProfessor Posted August 15, 2014 Super Moderator Share Posted August 15, 2014 I'm missing the connection between "Thanks Ironhorse for reminding me why I left christianity" and "It's all about grace". Could you clarify for me, End3? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bornagainathiest Posted August 15, 2014 Share Posted August 15, 2014 you are conflating dishonest with "i dont know" and putting the dishonest part into "i dont know" scenarios.. If I personally dont know doesnt mean there is an answer. Not absolute truth but What do you call it when Science says to be the most reliable means to truth but there a many times its doesnt haev a clue What somethng is or why something happened. The point is you dont stop believing in science just because you dont know. I don't believe in science as an act of religious faith. I place my confidence in it as a tool and a process that can give us reliable (but not absolute) knowledge of reality. However, there are limitations we are forced to live within and work within. I explained this to you, here... http://www.ex-christian.net/topic/63950-cosmology-101-for-1acceptingatheist1/page-2#.U-5scfk9JmM ...in post # 35. There's no honesty or dishonesty to it, 1AAT1. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1AcceptingAThiest1 Posted August 15, 2014 Share Posted August 15, 2014 its ok for an atheist to say i dont know and its not okay for christian to say it? This is basically what your saying. IF a Christian says i dont know they are dishonest if a Atheists says i Dont know they are fine. saying i dont know means you do not have the answer at the time this has absolutly nothing to do with dishonesty Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1AcceptingAThiest1 Posted August 15, 2014 Share Posted August 15, 2014 bornagain that is what i am saying the entrie tiem you gusy are not beign dishonest because science doesnt have all the answers yet you still hold science as high regard. But when I say i dont know i am caleld dishonest. Special pleading right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roz Posted August 15, 2014 Share Posted August 15, 2014 1. you do claim as a christian that your god loves everyone on earth (john 3:16) 2. you do claim that you don't know what god ordered the killing of children, rape of women, and lifetime slavery This is your contradiction. This is not special pleading because in number 1 you clearly hold to the belief that your god is a god of love. Yet you will just say "I don't know" to the most chilling atrocities ordered and committed by your god and brush that off. Yet all the while you will still say that "my god is a god of love." If you cannot see the contradiction and dishonesty that you and every other christian here displays, then you are blind. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bornagainathiest Posted August 15, 2014 Share Posted August 15, 2014 bornagain that is what i am saying the entrie tiem you gusy are not beign dishonest because science doesnt have all the answers yet you still hold science as high regard. But when I say i dont know i am caleld dishonest. Special pleading right? I haven't called you dishonest in this thread, 1AAT1. You'd have to take your accusation up with someone who has. So far in my dialog with you in this thread I've endeavored to explain what science is and how it works, that's all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts