Open_Minded Posted February 22, 2006 Share Posted February 22, 2006 Such a wonderful morning - this will stay with me all day now. Thanks everyone. Happy ... Happy day Just remember, all this unconditional loving is coming from non-Christians. Ahh yes .... Eponymic ... it truly is. I know I've mentioned this before .... but the Focus of our meditative/interfaith ministry (at my congregation) is .... A Healing Journey - Exploring Spiritual Interconnectedness This morning has truly been a healing journey through spiritual interconnectedness. It truly has. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NotBlinded Posted February 22, 2006 Share Posted February 22, 2006 P.S. I should add a little qualifier here, not that I want to diminish the meaning. I embrace what the symbol stands for. I don't worship the symbol itself. That doesn't work for me, but what it represents does. (It means that I can't use religious symbols as a part of my experience of "divine" ideals. There too much baggage still associated with it, the baggage that the mindset of the fundi heaped on it) True, and I agree with your assessment. I have a problem with the word "spiritual" which by definition means something "supernatural" - admittedly my perception of it. I prefer the word aesthetic, above the meaningless concepts of the word "spiritual" brings with it. It's a word that holds far more meaning and value, and something I can actually "touch" and wrap my hands around. It invokes those "divine" inspirations within me, far better than the contemporary definitions of the word "spiritual. " Speaking of course only for myself. I think that is a wonderful word to use. Words are just symbols also and if it points to something that is unsatisfactory for you, you have every right to choose another. Eckhart Tolle also talks about the asthetic nature of things. He said that the chair Van Gogh painted was worth a few bucks but the picture is worth 25 million. He used art to represent the asthetic nature the chair held for him and in the process, made the chair into a symbol of art that stood for much more than the wood used to make it and its purpose. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest sub_zer0 Posted February 22, 2006 Share Posted February 22, 2006 Sub this is it ... this is the problem. Your faith is the ONLY Thing that matters. Fruits of the spirit, Love as described in Corinthians, humility... they mean nothing because faith is ALL Faith in Christ is the type of faith that produces good works. So fruits of the spirit are not meaningless. What is the point of doing anything good? Nothing whatso ever You cannot talk on a human level with any sort of compassion because of this mind set. I agree with Antlers.. As a Christian you have to get the theology, the belief, the faith ... all the wordy/mind games stuff dealt with BEFORE you can feel love. That is a HUGE mountain to get over and many never do That isn't my mindset. I used to think that the reason Christians and non Christians were so distant from each other was because non christians thought that christians believed in a old man in the sky and so were obviously a bit doo lally But more important is the fact that for many Christians (NOT ALL) the theological side cosumes them and they cannot relate to anyone except other Christians who think the same way But you HAVE to think like this becasue you cannot love everyone freely because you see them as either Christian or not Black or white saved or damned No the difference is, we have faith in Christ. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest sub_zer0 Posted February 22, 2006 Share Posted February 22, 2006 I'm only going to respond at this moment to this one comment to make a connected point. Sub, I sincerely forgive you for this comment about the condition of my heart. You misspeak terribly about me. Likewise you all speak terribly for and about me. But I am defending Christ here and you are not, so answer the questions then. Is Jesus the way the truth and the life? So you understand I do not have a lack of love for Christ. "Christ", both in your world, and in mine, is a symbol of love, grace, humility, meekness, etc. If Christ as a symbol represents all the ideals of man that encourage and elevate attitudes and actions of love and compassion, then yes I very much love and embrace "Christ," or "God," or "Love," or "Wisdom," or "Peace," or (insert divine symbol here). "My world" is what the Bible tells me about Christ. Christ is also your Savior and died for your sins because of His love for you. Do you believe that as well? What you see as a lack of love, is my complete, well earned disrespect for narrow-minded, dogmatic, religious boxes that people try to stuff God into. 1. It is not possible to do this and no two people on earth can agree what Box-God exactly is or requires, and 2. That doing this causes people do be disconnected from the limitless "God" outside, consequently twisting their human spirit into a distorted resemblance of a human soul. In this light of understanding gained by observation, study, and personal experience, I conclude that "true hell" exists inside legalistic religion where people's souls are chained in a damnation of their own choosing. 1. I can tell you what Jesus is and what He was to do for us and how to know Him. Poeple choose not to follow that, it doesn't mean I stuffed God into a box, it means you can't into the box with Him, heh. 2. So Hell doesn't exist, huh? Where did you get your information on Christ to believe in Him? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
white_raven23 Posted February 22, 2006 Share Posted February 22, 2006 Sorry Subby.....forgot all about you...... In case you missed it, the rest of us were having a warm uplifing spiritual experience that was true food for the soul...... You and your specific religion weren't missed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Antlerman Posted February 22, 2006 Author Share Posted February 22, 2006 No the difference is, we have faith in Christ. And the fruits of this perceived faith in Chirst is manifesting itself to the world how? Ask them, for their evaluation. Afterall, what is a light that is hidden under a basket? It must be seen, and if it is seen, it can be known, and if it can be known it can be described by those who see it. Sub, the world is describing the fruits of this faith you promote. Why are you refusing to hear? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest sub_zer0 Posted February 22, 2006 Share Posted February 22, 2006 And the fruits of this perceived faith in Chirst is manifesting itself to the world how? Ask them, for their evaluation. Afterall, what is a light that is hidden under a basket? It must be seen, and if it is seen, it can be known, and if it can be known it can be described by those who see it. Sub, the world is describing the fruits of this faith you promote. Why are you refusing to hear? The Spirit of a Christian should be one of "... love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, 23gentleness, self-control; against such things there is no law. " Galatians 5:22 See how the Christian's spirituality is manifested into the world? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NotBlinded Posted February 22, 2006 Share Posted February 22, 2006 Still feeling great this afternoon guys, like a flower blossoming after a nice spring rain. New life and new hope...even for Sub_Zero. How hypocritical would I be after being a Christian for 35 years and the last 5 as a full fundy, to condemn this person? It's not the Sub is refusing to see the light, it's that until the VEIL of RELIGION is torn, Sub can't. Wonderful Serene! I also agree with you...he can't see it. He is blinded by the blight of the fundamentalist mindset. (You like the play on my name??? hehe) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Antlerman Posted February 22, 2006 Author Share Posted February 22, 2006 I'm only going to respond at this moment to this one comment to make a connected point. Sub, I sincerely forgive you for this comment about the condition of my heart. You misspeak terribly about me. Likewise you all speak terribly for and about me. But I am defending Christ here and you are not, so answer the questions then. Is Jesus the way the truth and the life? So, like in the other thread, other peoples actions justify yours? How about, "I'm sorry? I have no excuse". That sounds sincere, not what you said here or in the other thread. So you understand I do not have a lack of love for Christ. "Christ", both in your world, and in mine, is a symbol of love, grace, humility, meekness, etc. If Christ as a symbol represents all the ideals of man that encourage and elevate attitudes and actions of love and compassion, then yes I very much love and embrace "Christ," or "God," or "Love," or "Wisdom," or "Peace," or (insert divine symbol here). "My world" is what the Bible tells me about Christ. Sub, honestly I'd like to believe you can be reached inside there somewhere. But have you ever seen the movie "This is Spinal Tap"? These conversations sound like the scene where he just doesn't get what's being said and responds, "But this one goes to 11". Sometimes it really feels like this. What you see as a lack of love, is my complete, well earned disrespect for narrow-minded, dogmatic, religious boxes that people try to stuff God into. 1. It is not possible to do this and no two people on earth can agree what Box-God exactly is or requires, and 2. That doing this causes people do be disconnected from the limitless "God" outside, consequently twisting their human spirit into a distorted resemblance of a human soul. In this light of understanding gained by observation, study, and personal experience, I conclude that "true hell" exists inside legalistic religion where people's souls are chained in a damnation of their own choosing. 1. I can tell you what Jesus is and what He was to do for us and how to know Him. Poeple choose not to follow that, it doesn't mean I stuffed God into a box, it means you can't into the box with Him, heh. 2. So Hell doesn't exist, huh? Where did you get your information on Christ to believe in Him? 1. I was in the box with him. I grew bigger then the box could suppport. Apparently your still small enough to squeeze into it? 2. I'm speaking of a metaphorical hell of one's own making. You know that. I get my imformation about the Christ mythology from the same place you did: The Bible. But, I guess maybe there's something wrong with my ability to understand it? Face it Sub, say what you will, you have nothing spiritual to offer in any one single thing you are sharing. One last thing: Why hasn't your heart responded to one single word anyone has said here? Are you cold inside? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NotBlinded Posted February 22, 2006 Share Posted February 22, 2006 I'm only going to respond at this moment to this one comment to make a connected point. Sub, I sincerely forgive you for this comment about the condition of my heart. You misspeak terribly about me. Likewise you all speak terribly for and about me. But I am defending Christ here and you are not, so answer the questions then. Is Jesus the way the truth and the life? No, Jesus spoke about how you can achieve the way, the truth and the life. You are worshiping a symbol sub. He was trying to show you the way by relating his life with what you can have also. Don't mistake the finger pointing to the moon for the moon itself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alice Posted February 22, 2006 Share Posted February 22, 2006 Likewise you all speak terribly for and about me. But I am defending Christ here and you are not, so answer the questions then. Is Jesus the way the truth and the life? So you understand I do not have a lack of love for Christ. "Christ", both in your world, and in mine, is a symbol of love, grace, humility, meekness, etc. If Christ as a symbol represents all the ideals of man that encourage and elevate attitudes and actions of love and compassion, then yes I very much love and embrace "Christ," or "God," or "Love," or "Wisdom," or "Peace," or (insert divine symbol here). "My world" is what the Bible tells me about Christ. Christ is also your Savior and died for your sins because of His love for you. Do you believe that as well? I feel for you Sub ~ you seem outside of the experience most of us participating in this thread have had today. Do you see how the fact that your world is limited to what the Bible tells you - disconnects you from first hand experience? You ask - 'do you believe that Jesus is the way, truth and life'. I say, no - not in the literal way you understand it. You ask 'do you believe that Christ is also my saviour and died for my sins because of his love for me' - I say no, because it is a nonsensical concept extrapolated from a literal reading of a spiritual book. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greasemonkey Posted February 22, 2006 Share Posted February 22, 2006 Feb 08, 2206 Monestary of the order of the Cute & Fluffy Bunny Followers of the Church of the Cute & Fluffy Bunny gather today to witness the 200th anniversary of the year that the great prophet Sub_Zero inpired the divine revelation of goodness to the original Cute & Fluffy Bunny followers of the early 21st century. Although the Church of the Cute and Fluffy Bunny still remains divided on the issue of whether the Bunny was more cute than fluffy, or more fluffy than cute; the church still stands firm that there was indeed a physical Bunny maintained by the webmasters who began the movement, and not a "metaphorical bunny" used to lampoon other contemporary "gods" of the day; to speak otherwise is considered "hare-esy," and punishable by death in boiling carrot juice. Despite the lack of having the original text of the actual coversations that took place between Sub_Zero and the original followers of the Great Bunny on the "internet forum," adherrants of the religion are now of the opinion that the writings left by original founders regarding Mr. Sub as an "arrogant prick" are indeed forgeries. No person contributing to the beginning of such an incredibly humanitarian organization could possibly have been as arrogant as some historians have stated may have been the case (before being boiled alive in carrot juice by fundementalist Bunny worshippers). "Sub_Zero was indeed a great prophet," said author of the new historical best-seller From Christianity to Bunny-ism in a Single Generation, "No-one could have motivated the original founders but one immersed in the mysteries of the true Cute and Fluffy Bunny; to even think that he could have been a member of one of the now-dead sects of fundemenalist Christianity is preposterous and hare-etical!" The conflict rages on, but followers of the Great Bunny all know one thing. Only belief in the Cute & Fluffy Bunny can lead to good works; anything else is but a pale imitation of goodness. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest sub_zer0 Posted February 22, 2006 Share Posted February 22, 2006 No, Jesus spoke about how you can achieve the way, the truth and the life. You are worshiping a symbol sub. He was trying to show you the way by relating his life with what you can have also. Don't mistake the finger pointing to the moon for the moon itself. Indeed, Jesus spoke of that and He also said that He is that. Point blank. No other way to take it. Christ is not a symbol but God in the flesh. Do you know why there is no such law against those things? Because those are all products of UNCONDITIONAL LOVE The product of literalist Christian love is a product of fear, where there is fear, there is not unconditional love. If a person fears renouncing their religion and/or their religious icons, there is no love in that religion. Because I don't want to go away from love, which is God, there is no love? How false, because God is love. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest sub_zer0 Posted February 22, 2006 Share Posted February 22, 2006 1. I was in the box with him. I grew bigger then the box could suppport. Apparently your still small enough to squeeze into it? 2. I'm speaking of a metaphorical hell of one's own making. You know that. I get my imformation about the Christ mythology from the same place you did: The Bible. But, I guess maybe there's something wrong with my ability to understand it? Face it Sub, say what you will, you have nothing spiritual to offer in any one single thing you are sharing. One last thing: Why hasn't your heart responded to one single word anyone has said here? Are you cold inside? 1. No I am faithful to continue my abiding in God, you were not. 2. That hell is the un-acceptance of the thing that can save you from it, Christ. 3. How hasn't my heart responded? Christ is in my heart, I accepted Him into it. All this whole topic is about is my spirituality in Christ. So how am I not sharing my heart? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest sub_zer0 Posted February 22, 2006 Share Posted February 22, 2006 If love is god and people are loving then they too are "god in the flesh". ;-) Wrong, because we are fallible, God is not. No, because you don't want to go away from religious junk that says god should be feared. There is no love in fear....the bible tells me so "There is no fear in love. But perfect love drives out fear, because fear has to do with punishment. The one who fears is not made perfect in love. ”- 1 John 4:1 Indeed there is no fear in love. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest sub_zer0 Posted February 22, 2006 Share Posted February 22, 2006 I have perfect love...for "I do not fear" and the bible says One who does not fear has "perfect love." So is the bible right or not??? So you are God then? Is that what you are saying? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NotBlinded Posted February 22, 2006 Share Posted February 22, 2006 No, Jesus spoke about how you can achieve the way, the truth and the life. You are worshiping a symbol sub. He was trying to show you the way by relating his life with what you can have also. Don't mistake the finger pointing to the moon for the moon itself. Indeed, Jesus spoke of that and He also said that He is that. Point blank. No other way to take it. Christ is not a symbol but God in the flesh. He is that and so are you sub. There is no other way to take it...point blank. You are also "god" in the flesh. Push your mind and beliefs aside and let his words show you the way. No, Jesus spoke about how you can achieve the way, the truth and the life. You are worshiping a symbol sub. He was trying to show you the way by relating his life with what you can have also. Don't mistake the finger pointing to the moon for the moon itself. Indeed, Jesus spoke of that and He also said that He is that. Point blank. No other way to take it. Christ is not a symbol but God in the flesh. Do you know why there is no such law against those things? Because those are all products of UNCONDITIONAL LOVE The product of literalist Christian love is a product of fear, where there is fear, there is not unconditional love. If a person fears renouncing their religion and/or their religious icons, there is no love in that religion. Because I don't want to go away from love, which is God, there is no love? How false, because God is love. But yet you believe that God is only the Christian God. Don't limit God. God is love and is there for everyone regardless of the path they choose. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest sub_zer0 Posted February 22, 2006 Share Posted February 22, 2006 Sweetie, no need to try and twist things, that verse says nothing about a person saying that they are god...."perfect love" drives out fear and because I do not fear I have "perfect love." God is love? Isn't that what the bible says? Yes, it does. So because I have no fear of law or religion and because I do not fear what men say god will do, I have perfect love and if love is "god" then god is in me. Let me put it to you another way. The Bible does say that perfect love can cast out fear. But how is that perfect love aquired? But yet you believe that God is only the Christian God. Don't limit God. God is love and is there for everyone regardless of the path they choose. No the God I speak of is for EVERYBODY. You know God sent His Son down to die for you. Not just believers in Him already but EVERYBODY. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NotBlinded Posted February 22, 2006 Share Posted February 22, 2006 Indeed, Jesus spoke of that and He also said that He is that. Point blank. No other way to take it. Christ is not a symbol but God in the flesh. If love is god and people are loving then they too are "god in the flesh". ;-) Oh my god Serene! Indeed you understand and this understanding comes naturally now doesn't it? whoohoo! No the God I speak of is for EVERYBODY. You know God sent His Son down to die for you. Not just believers in Him already but EVERYBODY. You just don't get it and it's not your fault. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NotBlinded Posted February 22, 2006 Share Posted February 22, 2006 Sweetie, no need to try and twist things, that verse says nothing about a person saying that they are god...."perfect love" drives out fear and because I do not fear I have "perfect love." God is love? Isn't that what the bible says? Yes, it does. So because I have no fear of law or religion and because I do not fear what men say god will do, I have perfect love and if love is "god" then god is in me. Let me put it to you another way. The Bible does say that perfect love can cast out fear. But how is that perfect love aquired? By understanding that you are only fallible because you believe you are. If you are to recognize that all of us, everyone of us, is 'god in the flesh', you will know unconditional love. If you know that god is unconditional love, you should understand that the only sacrifice that was needed was one of the ego. Jesus represents this understanding by dying to show others that what they believe about themselves is not who they are. "Forgive them for they know not what they do." God has not changed because of what we believe, god will always be love. It doesn't matter if I am a christian or not and the only thing to accept about Jesus is the idea that he was trying to show us a way to god that did not adhere to a religion. What are you doing sub? He was trying to show the Jewish people that they didn't need such a strict belief to know god. What is he showing you? Is he showing you that you need a strict religion to know god? You don't need the church and its 'understandings' in order to know what Jesus was talking about. Trust yourself to understand. They teach they very same things that Jesus was against. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Antlerman Posted February 22, 2006 Author Share Posted February 22, 2006 1. No I am faithful to continue my abiding in God, you were not. I continued it outside the box. I am faithful to the ideals of Love. 2. That hell is the un-acceptance of the thing that can save you from it, Christ. If this is hell that I live everyday now.... than hell is good. Hell is supposed to be a place of spiritual death, yet I am more alive in my soul today than when I was in the box of legalism. When I was in the box - that was hell. (actually the only one in the box is yourself - God isn't there) 3. How hasn't my heart responded? Christ is in my heart, I accepted Him into it. All this whole topic is about is my spirituality in Christ. So how am I not sharing my heart? Now here's the question of real substance. First of all, yes and no. This topic was an invitation to you to share your experiences and thoughts about spirituality; it was also an invitation to any fundamentalist. I am interested in hearing what you and other fundamentalists have to say on this topic, and it has proved to be very fruitful for many people. I appreciate your participation. But to clarify, the topic isn't about you specifically. Now, are you asking me sincerely how I/others are not seeing your heart? Are you genuinely concerned about why we are feeling you are not? I want to answer you honestly and respectfully, but I really need to hear you say that it means something to you, that you care that we are feeling you are unresponsive to others. I don't want to just bat that back and forth. Do you care how we feel about what we are hearing from you personally? Clues: How do you experience Christ in your heart? How does it affect how you are to others? Do the two "apologies" you have sort of given show you anything about what's going on inside? Christ is not a symbol but God in the flesh. George Bush is a symbol of the free world. George Bush is a real person. Sub, you do not understand language here. A rose is a symbol of love. A gold ring is a symbol of marriage. Christ is a symbol of love. Etc. So yes, Christ is a symbol, and whether he was god, man, or myth is irrelevant to the role he plays as a symbol of human aspirations. It is in this context I speak at all times when I say symbol. (Technically the proper term in semiotics is "sign", but "symbol" is the more colloquial word that's less confusing than using the word "sign") Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alice Posted February 22, 2006 Share Posted February 22, 2006 Sub, just wanted to share this with you ~ a couple of years ago I engaged in a detailed discussion with a non christian friend about the christian doctrines as enscribed in the creed. I was spouting my 'beliefs' - suddenly I got back this response from my friend where he called into question my 'authenticity'. I was furious, eventhough I didn't quite grasp what he was driving at. 'How dare you say my beliefs are not authentic' - I replied. I was indignant. His comments stayed with me - I started looking deep inside myself. Eventually I came to see how disconnected I was from the 'truth' I had purported to believe. For me - one of the saddest things about Literal christianity is that the 'Kingdom of God' becomes something 'out there' - a future ideal .. instead of the here and now. Sub, do you see any of the similarities between bible literal christianity and the pharisees of Jesus' day? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Open_Minded Posted February 22, 2006 Share Posted February 22, 2006 Indeed, Jesus spoke of that and He also said that He is that. Point blank. No other way to take it. Christ is not a symbol but God in the flesh. If love is god and people are loving then they too are "god in the flesh". ;-) Serene (or Serendipity - sorry that is sticking in my mind today ) Your statement above describes the classic mystic experience - defined with Christian language as "union with God". You were born in a wonderful era... you can make the statement and NOT be burned at the stake. Only half joking here - in other periods of history people were burned at the stake for the statement you made above. The point I'm trying to make is you are not alone. I'm sure others on this board - from different traditions - could point you to writings in their own tradition that would "fit" what you are suddenly aware of. Within the Christian tradition the soul's awareness and experience of this is called "union with God" - here is but one small sample of this type of writing. The following quote is from Catherine of Siena (a Christian Mystic). In this writing "God" is speaking to Catherine about the soul. And so the light runs on, all of you showing it forth, now one way, now another. But the inmost feeling, the ineffable sweetness and perfect union -- you cannot describe it with your tongue, which is a finite thing! ... Oh how lovely, how lovely beyond all loveliness, is the dwelling place of the soul's perfect union with me! Not even the soul's own will stands between us, because she has become one thing with me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NorthenSun Posted February 23, 2006 Share Posted February 23, 2006 If love is god and people are loving then they too are "god in the flesh". ;-) But yet you believe that God is only the Christian God. Don't limit God. God is love and is there for everyone regardless of the path they choose. For me - one of the saddest things about Literal christianity is that the 'Kingdom of God' becomes something 'out there' - a future ideal .. instead of the here and now. How beautiful. Indeed, so far from the Kingdom of Heaven, without love. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest sub_zer0 Posted February 23, 2006 Share Posted February 23, 2006 The Bible does say that perfect love can cast out fear. But how is that perfect love aquired? By understanding that you are only fallible because you believe you are. If you are to recognize that all of us, everyone of us, is 'god in the flesh', you will know unconditional love. If you know that god is unconditional love, you should understand that the only sacrifice that was needed was one of the ego. Jesus represents this understanding by dying to show others that what they believe about themselves is not who they are. "Forgive them for they know not what they do." God has not changed because of what we believe, god will always be love. It doesn't matter if I am a christian or not and the only thing to accept about Jesus is the idea that he was trying to show us a way to god that did not adhere to a religion. What are you doing sub? He was trying to show the Jewish people that they didn't need such a strict belief to know god. What is he showing you? Is he showing you that you need a strict religion to know god? You don't need the church and its 'understandings' in order to know what Jesus was talking about. Trust yourself to understand. They teach they very same things that Jesus was against. No, like Jesus said Himself, He is the way the truth and the life. I am simply adhering to Christ, not doing anything but that. So basically to get an answer to my questions, I will have to find it in that paragraph, I think I see it. So to recognize love I have to recognize that I am God in the flesh? Sub, just wanted to share this with you ~ a couple of years ago I engaged in a detailed discussion with a non christian friend about the christian doctrines as enscribed in the creed. I was spouting my 'beliefs' - suddenly I got back this response from my friend where he called into question my 'authenticity'. I was furious, eventhough I didn't quite grasp what he was driving at. 'How dare you say my beliefs are not authentic' - I replied. I was indignant. His comments stayed with me - I started looking deep inside myself. Eventually I came to see how disconnected I was from the 'truth' I had purported to believe. For me - one of the saddest things about Literal christianity is that the 'Kingdom of God' becomes something 'out there' - a future ideal .. instead of the here and now. Sub, do you see any of the similarities between bible literal christianity and the pharisees of Jesus' day? Chrisitianity views the kingdom of Heaven as something that is being built-up right here and now through the good news that is the Gospel of Christ. So now, I fail to see how I am like the Pharisee's in connection with the view of Christianity and the kingdom of Heaven. No the God I speak of is for EVERYBODY. You know God sent His Son down to die for you. Not just believers in Him already but EVERYBODY. You just don't get it and it's not your fault. What don't I get, please be specific. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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