mymistake Posted May 6, 2018 Share Posted May 6, 2018 6 minutes ago, Thumbelina said: There can be no love without justice as long as sin exists. Would we really want a God who behaves like Afluenza kid's mom? That high school shooter & others like him, should they just get a slap on the wrist & be sent back in society? Should God give eternal life to people who refuse to obey His commandments & who would not live peaceably with his/her fellow men? 1 Corinthians 13 says love suffers long, not forever. People tend to focus on hell when they should be focusing on a God who gave Himself so we can live. Uh no. You lack imagination. If God could do anything then he wouldn't need to make our world the way it is now. There wouldn't need to be injustice or even sin. There wouldn't need to be suffering. And no, eating "magic fruit" didn't cause all of this. The fairy tale doesn't make sense. About God giving himself . . . if you don't stay dead then it isn't a sacrifice. God gave up a weekend. But again if God could do anything then it didn't have to be that way. If the crucifixion was optional then it was pure drama or even pointless melodrama. 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
quinntar Posted May 6, 2018 Author Share Posted May 6, 2018 17 minutes ago, Thumbelina said: There can be no love without justice as long as sin exists. Would we really want a God who behaves like Afluenza kid's mom? That high school shooter & others like him, should they just get a slap on the wrist & be sent back in society? Should God give eternal life to people who refuse to obey His commandments & who would not live peaceably with his/her fellow men? 1 Corinthians 13 says love suffers long, not forever. People tend to focus on hell when they should be focusing on a God who gave Himself so we can live. He doesn't exist, period. Can you prove that Jesus is the actual creator of this universe? How? When your God doesn't even know what's outside his own people's territory. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
disillusioned Posted May 6, 2018 Share Posted May 6, 2018 7 hours ago, Thumbelina said: There can be no love without justice as long as sin exists. Would we really want a God who behaves like Afluenza kid's mom? That high school shooter & others like him, should they just get a slap on the wrist & be sent back in society? Should God give eternal life to people who refuse to obey His commandments & who would not live peaceably with his/her fellow men? 1 Corinthians 13 says love suffers long, not forever. People tend to focus on hell when they should be focusing on a God who gave Himself so we can live. 1 Corinthians 13 also says that love keeps no record of wrong, and that it never fails. Just saying. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mwc Posted May 6, 2018 Share Posted May 6, 2018 On 5/3/2018 at 8:54 AM, Thumbelina said: He is not in hell, ahem, yet. He has to face the judgment. He's in the grave. I think he got cremated so he's good to go. mwc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted May 6, 2018 Share Posted May 6, 2018 13 hours ago, Thumbelina said: People tend to focus on hell when they should be focusing on a God who gave Himself so we can live. Why do we think the fact that the Aztecs sacrificed children is so abhorrent, yet the christian god gets a free pass for human blood sacrifice? It's disgusting, really. The extent to which christianity indoctrinates and desensitizes people to what is truly abhorrent is what I find disturbing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thumbelina Posted May 9, 2018 Share Posted May 9, 2018 On 5/6/2018 at 12:27 AM, theanticrash said: He doesn't exist, period. Can you prove that Jesus is the actual creator of this universe? How? When your God doesn't even know what's outside his own people's territory. Awww, you think God doesn't care for you? He does. Jesus ALREADY paid the penalty for you, I hope you will see that some day & return to Him. You have to taste & see that God is good for yourself. Faith comes by hearing & hearing the right word. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thumbelina Posted May 9, 2018 Share Posted May 9, 2018 On 5/6/2018 at 7:25 AM, disillusioned said: 1 Corinthians 13 also says that love keeps no record of wrong, and that it never fails. Just saying. It means not to ruminate on the wrongs done to oneself otherwise it may lead to vengeance. Vengeance is God's because He judges justly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thumbelina Posted May 9, 2018 Share Posted May 9, 2018 On 5/6/2018 at 7:34 AM, mwc said: I think he got cremated so he's good to go. mwc On 5/6/2018 at 1:37 PM, TruthSeeker0 said: Why do we think the fact that the Aztecs sacrificed children is so abhorrent, yet the christian god gets a free pass for human blood sacrifice? It's disgusting, really. The extent to which christianity indoctrinates and desensitizes people to what is truly abhorrent is what I find disturbing. Why do soldiers go out & fight for their country? Why risk getting maimed or killed? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Astreja Posted May 9, 2018 Share Posted May 9, 2018 41 minutes ago, Thumbelina said: Jesus ALREADY paid the penalty for you, I hope you will see that some day & return to Him. You have to taste & see that God is good for yourself. Faith comes by hearing & hearing the right word. No. I consider it an act of pure evil and unforgivable cowardice to accept the alleged sacrifice of Jesus. If such a place as hell actually exists, I am honour-bound to go there on purpose and remain there until all suffering beings are liberated. This is not negotiable. The vow has been made, over 10 years ago, and I intend to keep it literally to my dying breath. 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mymistake Posted May 9, 2018 Share Posted May 9, 2018 1 hour ago, Thumbelina said: Awww, you think God doesn't care for you? He does. Jesus ALREADY paid the penalty for you, I hope you will see that some day & return to Him. You have to taste & see that God is good for yourself. Faith comes by hearing & hearing the right word. That is not what he said. We all know what the stories say but why would anybody think the stories are true? Edit: If you want us to see that God is good why not provide a photograph of God being good? Come on, a legitimate photograph of God while he his being good. It shouldn't be that hard. Any interesting or important human winds up in plenty of pictures if they are real. If God were real he should be in photos too. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
quinntar Posted May 9, 2018 Author Share Posted May 9, 2018 1 hour ago, Thumbelina said: Awww, you think God doesn't care for you? He does. Jesus ALREADY paid the penalty for you, I hope you will see that some day & return to Him. You have to taste & see that God is good for yourself. Faith comes by hearing & hearing the right word. Correction! There's no tasting or seeing your God, because that would be considered actual stimuli, and we don't want that now. That would not lead back to faith. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mwc Posted May 9, 2018 Share Posted May 9, 2018 1 hour ago, Thumbelina said: What? mwc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
disillusioned Posted May 9, 2018 Share Posted May 9, 2018 5 hours ago, Thumbelina said: It means not to ruminate on the wrongs done to oneself otherwise it may lead to vengeance. Vengeance is God's because He judges justly. Oh, so it means what it says sometimes, but not others. Got it. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super Moderator TheRedneckProfessor Posted May 9, 2018 Super Moderator Share Posted May 9, 2018 6 hours ago, Thumbelina said: Awww, you think God doesn't care for you? He does. Jesus ALREADY paid the penalty for you, I hope you will see that some day & return to Him. You have to taste & see that God is good for yourself. Faith comes by hearing & hearing the right word. There it is. We just never heard the right version of christianity. This is No True Scotsman's cousin. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderator LogicalFallacy Posted May 9, 2018 Moderator Share Posted May 9, 2018 On 5/5/2018 at 10:59 AM, Thumbelina said: Hello. 1)The sins of the world is not loving God with ALL our hearts, souls & minds & subsequently, not loving our neighbor as ourselves. The latter CANNOT be done without the former. We inherited selfishness from our first parents. The bible says we're born in sin & shapen in iniquity; that is a PREDICTIVE text, all men failed, & will fail, by sinning. I think the bible describes Enoch as being one of the best humans when it came to abiding in God but he too sinned. Only Jesus never sinned. So how do we get this sin? If its applied at or just before we are born, at conception even it can be anything we do. You say sin is not loving god, but apparently we are already born with it before we can learn to love god. So which one is it? On 5/5/2018 at 10:59 AM, Thumbelina said: 2) Who said that God has that pen from Men In Black that erases memory? Basically Revelations does... and my old Christian preachers. On 5/5/2018 at 10:59 AM, Thumbelina said: The redeemed will recall their redemption, just in a different way; they will sing the song of Moses & the lamb. Christians can do that even now (somewhat), people often say forgive & forget; it's basically impossible to forget but the Christian, by God's grace, can remember their experience in a different way. As time goes by they can forget the painful part for they understand that all their experiences work together for good. Hell does not exist yet, it will exist after the judgment when God will give men the payment according to their work (evil deeds). Lets not mince words - when you say payment, you mean punishment. Hell. So you think it's according to their works. (Evil deeds) So a person who doesn't believe in God, but helps people all their life, contributes to their society etc. What is their payment? What about the person who rapes and murders someone then becomes reformed and believes god? And are there levels.... like minor offenses have one level and that's say 100,000 years, then other offenses might have 500,000 years, and the serial rapists, killers, mass murders etc.. they get 1,000,000 years. Is that what you mean "according to works?" And doesn't the bible say it's not according to works but by believing on the Lord Jesus Christ? (Like our rapist turned christian did) On 5/5/2018 at 10:59 AM, Thumbelina said: To prove that God is a just judge & to show that the unrighteous will never, ever change, they will be resurrected & they will try to attack God & the saints (redeemed). ... read Revelation, see 20:9 etc. When the evil people are behaving like demons, fire from God will come down & eventually destroy them. God's presence is the fire, the righteous would have had the blood of the lamb above their door posts so they can exist in God's presence, not so with the wicked. A just God would have never created the system you claim he did. A malicious angry god maybe, but not a just all loving one. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderator LogicalFallacy Posted May 9, 2018 Moderator Share Posted May 9, 2018 6 hours ago, Thumbelina said: Faith comes by hearing & hearing the right word. Thank god you've come to save me. For 32 years I was trapped in the church of my parents who claimed that their church had the true word of God. But no - it's you! No doubt God lead me to be atheist so I could find you and you can tell me the RIGHT word. Sarcasm aside, what is the right word, how do I tell it apart from my parents "true word of god", and what will happen to my parents for having feed their true word at me? Like, is that an offense to God to believe something sincerely but wrongly, and thereby inadvertently lead others to believe the wrong word? 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted May 9, 2018 Share Posted May 9, 2018 8 hours ago, Thumbelina said: You've completely missed the point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super Moderator TheRedneckProfessor Posted May 9, 2018 Super Moderator Share Posted May 9, 2018 12 hours ago, Thumbelina said: Faith comes by hearing & hearing the right word. This is not what the scripture says. The scripture says, "Faith comes by hearing, and hearing by the word of god." Nowhere does it say anything about the "right" word; because obviously there is no such thing, given the myriad ways of interpreting the bible. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pratt Posted May 9, 2018 Share Posted May 9, 2018 Deuteronomy 12:32 New American Standard Bible (NASB) 32 “[a]Whatever I command you, you shall be careful to do; you shall not add to nor take away from it. Footnotes: Deuteronomy 12:32 Lit Everything that New American Standard Bible (NASB) Copyright 1960, 1962, 1963, 1968, 1971, 1972, 1973, 1975, 1977, 1995 by The Lockman Foundation Revelation 22:18 New American Standard Bible (NASB) 18 I testify to everyone who hears the words of the prophecy of this book: if anyone adds to them, God will add to him the plagues which are written in this book; Thumby, i dun know how many words you have added. You are as good as the avengers in infinity war. Dust to dust Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thumbelina Posted May 10, 2018 Share Posted May 10, 2018 On 5/9/2018 at 12:20 AM, Astreja said: No. I consider it an act of pure evil and unforgivable cowardice to accept the alleged sacrifice of Jesus. If such a place as hell actually exists, I am honour-bound to go there on purpose and remain there until all suffering beings are liberated. This is not negotiable. The vow has been made, over 10 years ago, and I intend to keep it literally to my dying breath. Did Jesus commit suicide, did He nail Himself to the cross? He permitted those things in order to save us! Sacrifice is to give up something important or valued for the sake of other considerations. Jesus abhors sin & He sacrificed Himself by having an abhorrent thing placed on Him & He experienced death & most importantly, separation from the Father in order to save us. Altruism originated with God & God's image is not totally obliterated in us humans; if it was we'd be exactly like the demons. Humans, including atheists, can do good deeds (Romans 2:14). We see humans willing to give their lives to save others-- firefighters, soldiers, policemen & women etc.-- throughout history but they get paid. Here's an amazing story of someone sacrificing for their loved ones & there was no pay: Mass. mom saves kids by throwing herself in front of car https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation-now/2014/03/19/massachusetts-mom-speedbump-saves-kids/6612509/ Do you think that mom would've done that for her adversary? Did Jesus give His life for His adversaries? .............. The bible says there are false sacrifices too, if a person gives up their body to be burned & it's not because of love then they did that in vain (like the crazies who flew in to the twin towers). I put that in cuz I'm just balancing out the theology. If we, being evil, can sometimes give up our lives to save another, it has to mean God gave up even more. If evil people can feel shame & guilt & all those emotions that indicate we're separated from God, how do you think Jesus felt when the sins (past, present & future) of the entire planet was mysteriously (1 Tim 3:16) placed upon Him? There was a sundering between Him & the Father & that pain superseded any physical pain. Sin was His kryptonite. He experienced hell/death. The word hell is used 54 times in the bible; 31 times sheol is translated as hell in the OT & it means the grave. In the NT it Hades is translated hell & that too means the grave. It is translated from the word Gehenna, which means a place of burning &1 time it is translated from Tartarus which means a place of darkness. we deserve death but Jesus didn't. Jesus experienced hell/the grave for us. Since He never sinned He became the 2nd Adam & therefore, He legitimately gave eternal life to us, whereas the 1st Adam had passed death to us. Those who reject the salvation offered to them will experience the 2nd death which will be burning in the lake of fire. Does this planet still exist? Then hell does not exist yet. It says in Revelation that it is this planet on fire that's going to be the place of burning, what we call hell. Also, hell won't be like in the Greek mythologies, the bible says that the last enemy to be defeated is death. The fire (God's holy presence) will consume sin & sin will exist no more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thumbelina Posted May 10, 2018 Share Posted May 10, 2018 22 hours ago, mwc said: What? mwc Why did you ask what? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thumbelina Posted May 10, 2018 Share Posted May 10, 2018 19 hours ago, disillusioned said: Oh, so it means what it says sometimes, but not others. Got it. Sorry about my really short reply but if you're interested this article explains what I meant: http://www.beliefnet.com/columnists/markdroberts/2010/09/love-and-keeping-a-record-of-wrongs.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mwc Posted May 10, 2018 Share Posted May 10, 2018 10 minutes ago, Thumbelina said: Why did you ask what? You quoted me about four messages prior but I don't know what you were talking about. I figured a "What?" was in order. mwc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thumbelina Posted May 10, 2018 Share Posted May 10, 2018 18 hours ago, TheRedneckProfessor said: There it is. We just never heard the right version of christianity. This is No True Scotsman's cousin. Man, why you still being difficult, huh? It's implied in my answer that there are wrong words that are taught that can cause folks to wrest the scriptures to their own destruction --- like thinking God will torture people throughout the ceaseless ages & avoiding Him as a result . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thumbelina Posted May 10, 2018 Share Posted May 10, 2018 7 minutes ago, mwc said: You quoted me about four messages prior but I don't know what you were talking about. I figured a "What?" was in order. mwc Oh. I gotta stop posting when I'm sleepy; I'm about there now actually. If I don't get to explaining myself now, then I'm sorry. ................ Oh, it wasn't you I meant to quote, it was only the other guy. I apologize. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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